Hello all, I am reviving a very old friction feed mill. My grandfather believed it to be an American mill but he wasn't sure and I am not either. I will attach some photos, any help or comments would be greatly appreciated. The casting numbers all start with the letter D. I have done vast amounts of research with no luck.
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The pictures of American's in Wendel's book show a belted "Heacock" variable feed and a variable friction feed similar to yours but the friction plate was perpendicular to the plane of the mandrel. From that I'd guess its not an American. Could it be a Frick?
Worked around an American no. 1 with that type of feed but I don't remember those 2 ring gears. I have several pieces of American literature and will post back if I find it is American.
Hi I
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I took an updated photo today. The Mandrel and bearings I just added. As the old mandrel was shot and the Babbitt sleeve bearings were as well. The original mandrel was 2 3/8" which Is a very odd shaft size these days which makes me think this mill is very old. I had a 2 7/16" mandrel made to replace the original which was much easier to find bearings and a drag chain sprocket for. I'm still very curious as to who the manufacturer of this mill was.
Farm mechanic, I have been looking through my sawmill literature and as mentioned the feed is not the American style. The best I can come up with is early Frick. I think they had a 2 3/8" mandrel on a smaller mill perhaps before 1900 and they used a friction feed like yours. In Wendell's book it shows at least 2 different cast friction disc styles in your basic configuration. I am always interested in old circle mills and it is nice to see you got new bearings on. I hope your collars are good. How many teeth in that old saw?
Oh, spoke too soon, that's a new oversize mandrel, great, you must be serious. And in the new photo the saw is different. Have you run it yet?
Actually I tried it for the fist time Thursday evening. Seemed to saw true after a couple days of shimming track and adjusting lead. I found about 7 different saws hanging up in a building at the farm. This saw in particular had the least amount of wobble and seemed in the best condition. 44" 3 style with 24 bits. This saw also seemed the best fit for the lower horse power tractor that powers it. I have been trying to get a saw hammered all year for this mill but the local saw shop McCormick & Sons isn't taking blades. So I figured pick the best I had and try it.
A few days of shimming and playing with the lead after a mill has been apart is nothing although most would quit and order a small band set up. 24 teeth should require little power, say 35 hp. Ok for small logs. Perhaps you know that to much lead eats power.
The lead now is about 1/16". I have about 55 pto Hp. The only thing I've sawn is a small timber that was present at the time So I don't really know how it's going to do. I'm hoping to get some logs moved to
the mill tomorrow and really try it out. I just worry about the blade wobble.
Farm Mechanic, just want to welcome you to the forum.
Thanks for sharing your mill & story. Looking forward to seeing it cut a log.
F.M., I think you have enough power for now. Playing with rpm will show where the speed needs to be in the cut. The new bearing at the saw may run warm and warm the center of the saw and start a wobble. Perhaps you know that a cool bearing, cold flat running saw and perfectly sharpened and swaged teeth must be. If the saw is not flat more lead is needed and wider teeth. Keep us informed.
May I ask what the range of lead could be? I read 1/32 to 1/16" is this correct? Also why would the new bearing at the saw run warm? Just by the trial run the non drive end bearing stayed cool but the drive end bearing got a little warm which I think I know why. When I torqued down the drive end bearing the shaft showed a little more resistance to turn and I believe that the mounting surface is not flat enough. I thought being a wooden surface the wood would slightly "crush" to match But doesn't seem to be the case with the old red oak husk. I plan on adding .020" shims under each bearing stud to hopefully add clearance to the center and relieve the tension. I am not by any means an experienced saw miller so any advice is greatly appreciated. Does any know the proper torque of the mandrel nut?
1 1/2"-6.
Thanks for the hospitality and support!
SETH
Welcome to the Forum and thanks for the topic and photos, I always enjoy the circle saw restore articles and photos. Please keep posting about your sawing progress, always interesting and generates lots of good comments/information.
To tighten the nut get or make a wrench half the diameter of largest saw. If you are a strong man it will be what you arm can easily do. If you are me you give it one downward kick with your heel. More important is to turn the saw back against the pins before doing this. This is so the saw does not slam against the pins when you hit the log. These pins must be smooth so the saw can 'oil can' in the collars. To make a wrench I buy a cheap spindle nut socket and weld a bar on it. On the bearing, being new it has not polished itself yet and this could warm it some. Worse is the grease problem; too much or too thick a grease makes the bearing warm. Consider using a high tech thin grease and just enough to channel it . But be carful not to mix non compatible greases. All this may be unnecessary if you have a laser thermometer. The heat from the bearing [at the saw] will work into the collars and then the saw at the collars and expand it. This may take as little as 4 degrees difference in temp. from just below the guide line to the collar line. A small dia. saw is not as bad as a large one. Does your mandrel have 2 or 3 bearings?
The mandrel has two bearings. I'm running a Mobil lithium grease. Another question I have is how close should the carriage head blocks run to the blade? I do have a thermometer and plan to keep a close eye on temps when I finally get a log on the mill. Worked on setting up the drag chain today so no logs yet.
2 bearings, that's good as things get tricky with 3 or 4. The head blocks should be 1/2" from saw so you can cut a 1" last board. Forgot to answer your lead question. The answer is as little as possible . When you are sawing and the log or cant is going past the saw or at the spreader the teeth should be just missing the face you are sawing. Said another way you only saw with the teeth that are going down. Besides this the [saw] plate cannot touch the log and lead helps here also. Say your saw has some lumps on the log side. If they just touch the log they will swell and rub and you will be waiting for the saw to cool off wondering what happened. Too much lead eats power and may cause the saw to saw in [towards the carriage]. All this and alot more is going on while you are learning to saw and adjust the mill at the same time. It is very confusing and took me years to understand. The size of the last board tells alot. Hardwood logs bow as soon as a slab and the first board is sawn off [ not always but I have to say this] Enough for now, hope I am helping, Doug
Yes this is all good information and a lot of help. I think I could get by with less lead once I get the saw plate taken care of. Someone recommended Albright saw not too far from me. I will see if they can take a look at it soon before I try to dial in the mill too much.
Thanks for all the help.
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Here is a picture of one of the head blocks. As far as I know it is original to the mill. It looks similar to Frick to me but I don't know.
I'm also getting an old circular saw going. Yours cuts like mine, left to right. Can you tell me which way your blade is cupped at rest? I have two blades, one each in either direction. I don't know which to use.
Glad to hear you are bringing an old mill back to life. So you have a left hand mill? I am pretty new to this but from what I have read and heard the blade should be flat on the log side if that makes sense. I'm sure there is much more experience on this forum that could help you better than I could.
I forgot to mention, thanks for that very good info. I am now more confident in attacking my blade adjustment. What do you use for a measurement point to set the pitch? I was guessing the carriage track.
Pitch? I'm thinking you're talking lead. You use a headblock. You measure at the saw guides, and you mark the tooth you're measuring. Saw guides shouldn't be touching the blade. Then move the saw 180° and measure to the same headblock and same tooth. There should be a bit more of a gap at the back of the saw than from the front.
Not all saws are the same, not all conditions are the same throughout the year. Periodic adjustments may be necessary.
If you have 2 saws that have opposite dishing, you probably have one saw hammered for a left hand mill and one for a right hand mill.
I noticed your mill is set up exactly like mine, cutting left to right. Can you tell me which way your saw blade dishes. Even with all the great info herein I can't figure out if mine is correct. Mine dishes away from the log such that the saw creeps away from the log as RPMs drop. and I suspect that is wrong. I keep asking this in various discussions. I am getting hints but nothing I am able to understand or use. I keep trying to download the U.S. Govt Documents but it will not download.
If the saw is dished away from the log it needs to be hammered. It is not supposed to be dished at all either way.
I think I finally figured out the manufacturer of my mill, I believe it is an Enterprise. Anyone have any knowledge of the enterprise mills that could confirm this?
I think its in Wendel's book, pm me your email and I'll scan those pages.