I've been putting this project off for a while, but I need to get it done while the weather is good. This will be two walls of a room with bookcases from floor to ceiling. One wall will have doors closing in the bottom 30". I will build with MDO plywood and poplar and paint white. I hate these built in jobs, but they make me pretty good money. It helps support my sawmill habit.
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great start! keep pics coming. :)
Rabbits and dados for the horizontals to ride in? What thickness plywood?
I am curious why you would use MDO plywood indoors.
This is 3/4" MDO. No on the dadoes.... I learned a technique where you use biscuits and screws in a woodworking magazine and have been doing it for bookcases for years. The screws will all be covered by either the carcass next to it or the end panel that will be rail and stile with flat panels. There are 3 size 20 biscuits in each joint and 4 screws and of course glue. It makes for a very strong case. The rest of the shelves will be adjustable with shelf pin holes.
MDO makes for a very good painted bookcase. I don't have to worry about any grain showing thru the paint and it takes the paint very evenly. Its like using MDF without the heavy weight.
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on September 30, 2020, 11:14:47 PMIts like using MDF without the heavy weight.
Very interesting. I've never seen MDO in person and had just assumed it was like MDF but more waterproof. Your comment sent me to do a little searching and I find that I was wrong. Interesting stuff.
Alan
I've used MDO quite a bit on interior surfaces. Here is a coffered ceiling that the flat panels are MDO. It won't sag on unsupported spans like MDF will. Spray it, and no sanding needed. I hate sheetrock.
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@alan gage (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=36602) I don't remember what put me onto using MDO. I've been using it for about 6 or 7 years. Ever since the first Menards moved into the St Louis area. They are the only place I can get it. Maybe I just saw it at Menards and thought it would be good to use. Its like a thin veneer of mdf over regular hardwood plywood. Another good thing about it is that it doesn't splinter like wood veneer when crosscutting.
That is interesting. This is the first I have heard of MDO, sounds like it gives a better finish with less work. I hate MDF and sheet rock. ;D
I am currently in the process of building a large built in bookcase as well. I was waiting to start a thread because of how long it takes me to do these big projects. 14' wide x 7.5' tall with 12" deep book cases on the top and 18" cabinets on the bottom with raised panel doors. I like that MDO that you mention, I have never seen it before.
Sounds like one I did last year. It was 8 1/2' tall at the highest point. I will just keep updating this thread as I build this. This will probably take me 3 weeks to finish. I have another one to do in another room of this house. Today I put together 4 more cases and drilled some of the shelf pin holes. I hate doing that. Then I cut about 30 adjustable shelves to size.
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This is my favorite wall shelf project that I've made. More than 25 years ago I got the commission to do a solid wood wall unit. All figured soft maple, glass doors in the center unit with glass insert shelves and lighting to showcase the collection.
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Thats very nice. I would sure prefer to do natural wood projects, but nobody wants it anymore. They all wanted it painted. I hate painting.
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on October 03, 2020, 07:28:49 AMI hate painting
Ha. X2 on that. At least MDO takes some of the pain out of painting. MDO is a good product to keep on hand for a lot things. It sure is a good choice of material for your painted built-ins.
What are you using to do the painting? Have you got an HVLP gun?
I have an Earlex HVLP 5500 turbine and sprayer. I use Target Coatings water based, pigmented laquer which I thin 10% with water. It sprays great and dries fast. These things are the only things that make painting tolerable for me.
Nice.
Can you do all your coats in one session with that product? Does it raise the grain on the non-mdo parts?
Sounds like you've reduced the pain down the minimum level at least.
I guess I should try some water based lacquer some time. I'm still using the voc stuff, but I haven't done much in a while.
Do you use the water based for clear also?
If I'm able to start fairly early in the morning, I can get 3 or 4 coats on in a day. It just depends on the weather. I spray in my garage with the door open and even some is done outside on the driveway. Usually the cases I do in the garage and then I will lay out shelves and trim pieces on sawhorses just outside the driveway. With the poplar, it really just shows the grain with the first coat. Then I sand it back and coat again. Usually after the 2nd coat I don't have to sand again.
The main clear product I spray is Minwax Polycrylic which is a lot like the tinted laquer. I don't really see the need to pay the high price of the clear from Target Coatings, though I have used their water borne varnish. I wanted to try it out and see if it brough out color like oil based varnishes. It was better than regular water based poly, but still not to my liking. For tables and other things that are likely to have glasses with cold drinks I just brush on oil based finish.
Do things ever stick to the shelves with those coatings?
I used polycrylic once for a kitchen table, I don't recommend it for that use at all
You guys know how to build book shelves!!!
Quote from: Dan_Shade on October 03, 2020, 08:10:58 PM
Do things ever stick to the shelves with those coatings?
I used polycrylic once for a kitchen table, I don't recommend it for that use at all
The biggest risk in the first 72 hours or so is parts sticking to each other, so I have to be careful about stacking shelves before installation. If I install the day after I finish the painting, I always tell people not to put anything on the shelves for a couple days, just to make sure the paint has fully cured. After a couple days its fine.
Yeah, not good for tables. I feel like its too soft and not waterproof enough.
This is a bookcase I built for my wifes office. Golden oak stain on red oak. Finished with polycrylic.
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Quote from: firefighter ontheside on October 04, 2020, 03:33:34 PM
This is a bookcase I built for my wifes office. Golden oak stain on red oak. Finished with polycrylic.
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I wish the few pieces of oak in our house looked that nice, but it seems to have been built by the lowest bidder and then got no maintenance until we moved in.
I have all 7 cases partially put together and most of the shelf pin holes drilled. Thats a lot of holes and my wrist hurts now. I put the plywood backs on 2 of them today and will do the rest tomorrow. Since these will all have a decorative panel at the end, I can just glue and staple the back on instead of having to rabbet the sides.
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After that I will start ripping and planing poplar for the trim pieces. I'll be painting next week.
Do you have a jig for the shelf pins?
Yes, I have a shelf pin jig made by wood river. Its essentially a piece of lexan with holes drilled in it every inch. Then I have a drill bit that has a little spring loaded piece that fits into the holes in jig. Then place bit into hole and press down and it drills a perfectly centered hole. Its about 18" long. There is a little plug piece that fits into the pin hole and into the jig so that you can move the jig forward and keep drilling holes. It gets a little monotonous on such large cases. I'd like to come up with a jig that uses a plunge router to drill the holes.
I think the only non-tedious method would be to use a cnc machine.
I have always chuckled at the movable shelf pins that i have done, because the shelf is put in one place and not moved..... Might as well be fixed
I built some bookcases for our fire department training library years ago. We have a cabinet shop in the district and they offered to cut plywood and drill shelf pin holes for me. I took them a stack of prefinished plywood and they ripped to width and had pin holes drilled in a heartbeat. Awesome machine they had that was all computerized.
Yeah, If people could tell me exactly where they want the shelves ahead of time, I could just make them all fixed, but they never know until they get the bookcases installed and start putting books up. As said, then they never move them again. On any case thats over 6' I always put in one fixed shelf. Otherwise Im afraid the sides will start to bow out from all the weight. I'm sure these will be completely filled with books. I built bookcases for her twin sister and they completely filled them with books. They are both attorneys who have a lot of books.
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on October 07, 2020, 06:52:07 AMI'd like to come up with a jig that uses a plunge router to drill the holes.
Easy enough. It's been done many times. I made one out of 1/2" MDF. Same principle as the one you have now, but the holes are 1/2" to accommodate a collar on the router. Could use a 3/8 collar I suppose. I like the router better than the drill bit version, but CNC sounds better for sure. It's a boring, repetitive job for sure.
I have a kreg shelf pin jig. I've also used a plunge router. I like the kreg jig...
I have the Rockler, prob. all the same design. My plunge router would be too big to do after construction, if I did the holes prior, I am sure I would forget about a dado or something and all my shelves would be crooked. :)
Ive got a ton of 3/8" phenolic resin sheet from an auction. I could use that to make the jig. I will do like my current jig and make two rows of holes so I can have holes close to the edge or further away. I will likely make it 4' long so at most I would have to move it once. I like the idea of the 1/2" holes and the collar. I think I will round over the edges of the holes to make it easier for the collar to find the holes. I've got a 2hp hitachi that might be the best, plus up and down spiral 1/4" carbide bits. Another benefit of the router would be having holes that are more square to the plywood. Now, I just have to find time to build it.
The kreg jig has bushings to keep the holes perpendicular, the rockler one I've seen has a thin template and a big "vix" but... It's the user's job to maintain the angle.
But I think cnc would be the least frustrating.
in the old days we used Masonite peg board with the holes in place for a jig. with cnc would you have to place the holes prior to assembly? how about with the plunge router? could make a router base with a pin the proper distance away and just keep moving one hole at a time.
I would assume that you would want to punch holes prior to assembly, I'm a semi-luddite and have no interest in a cnc machine...
I made a jig once with peg board, I reamed the holes out, screwed on a fence and used a plunge router.
Bottom line is its all tedious and mundane, and is never used after it is s set up. :)
we might raise or lower a shelf every couple years if my wife wants to reorganize something. if the sides are even great. I used to put dados in the center dividers for cabinets, so I do it after assembly to try to assure even distances up from the bottom. I guess a jig and using a guide bushing would work. my plunge router is a 3.5 hp, it is big and heavy, but fine on a flat surface.
I got all the cases assembled and shelf pin holes drilled and then all the backs put on. I didn't mess with trim pieces at all. Next week I will do that and start the painting.
Progress has been pretty slow lately, but I'm finally almost ready for paint. I glued up all doors today and will take them out of clamps when I get home from work on Sunday.
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Looking good!
I did the last bit of building that needed done before I can paint. I cut and put in the arched top frame pieces. Mornings will be cool, but afternoons will warm up, so I need to take advantage. I spray paint outside in my garage with the door open. I have a lot of sanding to do too.
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Looking good 👍
I like building cabinets and your doing an excellent job.
Home made shelf pin jig. One of the features is sawdust does not slow me down or effect accuracy. This is one of just a few utubes that I made eon's ago.
Shelf pin holes.wmv - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_mXI3d1iKQ)
Thanks Larry. I like your jig for the router. I have that same router. I do need to make something that makes me more efficient and thats less tiring than my drill and jig.
Nice work.
Probably could skip quite a few holes and be just as effective.
For tall cabinets I would figure about 2 or 3 holes on each side of 12" spacing would be plenty 99% of the time.
I'm 90% done painting. Gotta do the last coat on the cases and finish some of the shelves. I have to build some panels that go on the ends of the cases that will look like raised panels. I just use plywood ripped for rails and stiles and pocket screw it together. Panels will be 1/4 ply. These need to be painted and attached to sides of cases. Theres only 3 of them. I may wait til after installation to finish these to make sure they fit. I have to install bookcases and then put crown mold at top. I hate crown mold.
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You have to get your mind right to do crown moulding.
Quote from: WDH on November 05, 2020, 07:51:33 PM
You have to get your mind right to do crown moulding.
AIn't that the truth! It messes with my head every time.
Nothing to it !😁
just cut it upside down and backwards. :o :)
I can do the crown just fine. I just don't like to. I've even taught myself to cope inside corners instead of mitering them. Looks better.
I have about 98% of the painting done as of this afternoon. Hope to be installing next wednesday. Here is one of the cases with the end panel installed. I accidentally put it on the wrong case at first. That was a pain to take it off, since I had liquid nailed and brad nailed it. Luckily I realized it 2 minutes after I did it and the adhesive was still soft.
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I started the install today. Its going pretty well. I have to build a couple small pieces and then go back one day next week to finish it up.
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I went back this week to install the little case over the door and wanted to get it all buttoned up, but time ran out. Had to take one son to the orthodontist and then pick up the other from piano lesson. I just need to install the crown mold and touch up some paint from a few bumps and paint over nail holes.
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How did you mount to wall? At top behind molding?
If you look close, you can see screw heads thru back panel of cases. They are at top and at bottom. These will get painted white and will not be noticeable, especially when they are full of books.
first class FF!
Nice job 👍
Thanks for info.
Thought of your dados you cut while looking at a Woodpeckers ad. The ad was for a rip fence 'flip down' stops. Basically allows you to set a stop to slide your fence against. with the two flip downs you can set to allow you to use a dado set stacked a bit narrower than needed. slide fence to one stop and cut, then slide fence to other stop and cut. It was a way to not have to fiddle with stacking dados to correct thickness but still cut the correct dado width. Fence stop system wasawas for Saw Stop and Powermatic currently and on sale for a couple days.
Interesting. I'll check it out.
Thanks all for the nice comments.
Great job. They look awesome.
This project is finally done. I put up the crown mold and touched up paint today. I have more to do for these folks, but I'm gonna take a break from it. I want to mill some logs. I will get some better pics of this project later, after they fill them up with books.
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Very nice! 8) 8) 8) 8)
Oil based paint? Curious. I have some to finish.
Thanks guys.
@Texas Ranger (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=7) I use Target Coatings EM 6500 water based acrylic lacquer. It thins easily with water about 10%. I spray it with my HVLP sprayer. It dries fast and is easy to clean up with warm water. I think you can get the same sort of product from someone like Sherwin Williams, but this is too easy. I order it online and have it shipped to the house. They can also dye it to whatever paint code you give them.