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I heard good things about them. Does anybody have one? Anybody have a hydraulic beaver tail or tandem disc brakes on there trailer. Any thoughts. Looking at a 32 or 35'. There 12 ft beaver tail has a 10k lift capacity 

Whats the tare weight?

Hard to find the trailer weight. The gvwr is 25,900 on the one I'm looking at FMAXX212. They say they have one of the best weight to strength ratios. I asked the guy that picked my loader up about Diamond C and he said absolutely a nice trailer with the engineered neck

Was looking at the 210 before the 212 but you can't get the hydraulic over disc on the 210. The 210 is a 25k trailer but has 10k tandems and the 212 has 12k

 Do you have a CDL or some kind of exempted use?  Im gonna guess the trailer is 8-10k empty.  Hooked to 8 or 9k truck, a class D license only has room to haul foam or feathers.  

FWIW, If you go over 26,000 lbs combined door stickered weight of both the truck and trailer, whether loaded or not, then instate and interstate you'd need a CDL to haul for business.

I had a 25,000 lb class trailer, but decided to sell it to keep from getting a CDL Class A.  The guy who bought it from the dealership where I sold it later got a mega ticket and the cops subsequently impounded the trailer in Chattanooga.  He decided to sell the trailer to help pay off the tickets and not have to get a CDL Class A.

If you are under 26,000 lbs door sticker combined weight truck and trailer, but over 10,000 lbs combined, then you can can cross state lines without a CDL Class A, but still need a DOT registration for business.  I got my big ticket(s) and education when I was hauling my trailer empty, and crossed from Alabama to Tennesseee.

I had figured I was going to need to get the CDL. Going to be doing some custom mulching besides being on the farm so it probably would be wise to have one 😂. The machine and head is around 15-16k so I doubt I can slip under the 26k

 smiley_thumbsup

Walnut Beast
I have been around the hyd disc brakes for a number of years. Some have been ran by air semi some by electrical controller and some vacuum. They work good and seem to last pulling a lot of country roads. About four years ago I was like you and thought I wanted a trailer with 12,000 axles and a hyd power dove tail. I was tired of ramps. Thought I will sell several trailers and get one. Around here load king diamond c and PJ are the ones you see. Started talking to folks that had them and two things kept coming up. The axles are too far forward and loading equipment in the rain or snow is not good. Several guys had put steel grate on the floor to help. A friend of mine buddy had one at the time so I called him. He does pasture cleaning and snow removal with skid loaders so he is loading and hauling all the time. He had already had a worker dump a skid loader off the trailer while loading. He told me to come hook on to it one weekend and try it out as he had a new one with power ramps coming and was trading the trailer off. I am glad I got to try one. I mostly was going to haul my skid steer with attachments on it. I could see when its wet that tail was going to be a problem and yes the axles are too far forward. I ended up not buying one.   

YH, see where they got you is you thought you were doing everything right so you weren't afraid to visit with them. I always go under the assumption that no good will come of me having a visit with them, so I avoid scales and such. Someday they will catch me doing random roadsides, and they will treat me poorly no doubt😁 That must've been a brutal ticket being that guy had the trailer impounded and had to sell it to pay the fine! How much did they skin you for when you were cited?

Quote from: barbender on November 23, 2020, 12:37:06 PM
YH, see where they got you is you thought you were doing everything right so you weren't afraid to visit with them. I always go under the assumption that no good will come of me having a visit with them, so I avoid scales and such. Someday they will catch me doing random roadsides, and they will treat me poorly no doubt😁 That must've been a brutal ticket being that guy had the trailer impounded and had to sell it to pay the fine! How much did they skin you for when you were cited?

That's what I always have done in the past was to avoid 😂

Thanks for all the input everyone. I definitely got some thinking to do. Hedgerow they make flooring called Blackwood it's wood infused with rubber. Don't know how durable it is but Dimond C and PJ are using it. Watched a video on a slick deck vs Blackwood. Looked impressive

@ Walnut Beast- you have some plans that sound like they're longer term. 
A contract mulching business and ongoing farming operations seem to have a 5 to 10 year window, or longer.
Around here, PJ trailers and most others, develop bad rust from road salt in a few short years. Your profile on the Forum marks you up as being in the NE. If thats the NE States, then you have have the same rusty issue.
Do you consider the extra cost of a galvanized trailer a good investment?

Quote from: Walnut Beast on November 23, 2020, 01:03:09 PM
Thanks for all the input everyone. I definitely got some thinking to do. Hedgerow they make flooring called Blackwood it's wood infused with rubber. Don't know how durable it is but Dimond C and PJ are using it. Watched a video on a slick deck vs Blackwood. Looked impressive

This guy had had a rough bed liner sprayed on the floor and you could see it hadn't lasted. He did had wire mesh down to help but in snow it still would be slick. I have been around that wood infused floor with rubber in stock trailers and wasn't impressed. If I were you I would give those mega style ramps with the hyd fold a hard look at.  

My next trailer I will be looking very hard at galvanized. My PJ trailer looks terrible. Well built trailer, garbage paint. It would be better structurally if they left them unpainted than the garbage powder coat that had on it. All it does is hold the salt and moisture behind.

I had a McElrath trailer custom built. Dual tandem 24,000lb with removable log bunks built in. I haul logs lumber bobcat and other equipment on it. Works great. They put the heavy expanded metal on the dovetail and about the rear foot of the flat part of the deck for me. NO slip issues any time. I asked about hydraulic disc brakes. He said hydraulic yes. Disc NO. too expensive to work on. I got hyd drum brakes and couldn't b happier with em. I'll NEVER go back to electric brakes

Did some talking and pricing. Hedgerow your right on the Blackwood. They said the best traction on the hydraulic dove is the metal on the outsides with 5/8 bars welded all the way up. Priced with Hutch heavy duty adjustable suspension. They say it's pretty darn good. Axles are spread a little further apart also. Talked about paint and they claim it's super duper 😂. Does seem like they have a good process. The guy sells Big Tex and says it's about 10 to 1 that people are going with the Diamond C even though they are more expensive. Guy said he would throw the DOT inspection in and the black wheels if I ordered this week 😂. The way I had it with everything was 22,390. 230/80R16 14 ply tires. 

I have a Brute 37' dual tandem gooseneck trailer with a hydraulic dovetail and electric hydraulic disk brakes. I specked it out in 2005 and had it built by Brute. At the time, most of Brutes employees were ex PJ employees, and Brute specialized in hydraulic dovetail trailers. It cost me 16k in 2005.

I like the system a lot. My trailer weighs 10K lbs empty, has an 11' ramp and was designed for a 20k payload on the deck. It has a torque tube up front that runs almost all of the way from the front of the trailer to just in front of the axles.  The braking is the best that I've ever used (including air brakes.)

There are two hydraulic pumps; one for the ramp lift and a separate one for the ramp lock. It has two deep cycle batteries linked together with 2/0 welding cable and an 8K Pierce winch up front on a Reese style hitch insert mount.

If I were building the same trailer today I would go with higher capacity axles with 17" tires. Aluminum would be nice too.

The trailer has been a real enabler. I can load the front with logs while carrying a skid loader at the back.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13296/Truck_on_trip_to_get_lathe.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1595898525)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13296/Brute%20Trailer1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1192069737)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13296/20190618_131042.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1560901595)

Very impressive setup👍. Thanks for the input. Especially on the hydraulic dove tail and the disc brakes. I'll have to check on the separate pumps. Also I'll check on the tires. They had some options there to. 

I have a PJ and a Load Max both are well built but the paint is a joke on both of them and the wiring was atrocious.

Next trailer I want something with paint that'll last and automotive wiring with weather pack connectors and such (no crimped butt connector garbage).

As for the tilt deck either get bar stock welded across or like I did is bolt snowmobile tracks on the deck. Only way I can anything on the deck if it's the least bit wet or frosty. Remove a few bolts and can have a perfectly flat deck if need be.

What tire size did you have on those. I'm maybe looking to upgrade to the 17.5 tire & wheel. Any thoughts. The guy said the trailer will ride a little rougher empty. Good call on the traction (Chevy).
The guy said today the metal tread with 5/8 bar welded all the way up was 230 bucks more. The wood is still in the middle. I had asked if the 5/8 bars welded at the bottom and top with Blackwood in the middle outside could be gotten without. He said that was standard. I thought about doing what you said making a traction plate that could be screwed to the wood then taken off. 800 bucks more  for oak floor on 32ft vs standard treated

Quote from: Walnut Beast on November 24, 2020, 06:16:02 PM
What tire size did you have on those. 

They are 235/85R16's.  

Over the years I've tried a lot of different tires (5 sets so far), and have yet to wear any out.  The problem is that I take the trailer into tight areas, and end up jack knifing it around to maneuver it where it needs to go.  That's not a problem if it's empty, but if it's heavily loaded I'll end up with a tread separation. 

Up until 3 years ago I've had to replace tires every 2-3 years, but that changed when my local tire shop recommended Sailun tires.  Sailun's primary market is commercial truck tires for OTR trucks. 

I'm running their Load Range G S637T commercial trailer tire. So far I have had better results with them than any of the previous brands (Maxiss, Goodyear Marathon's, Farm Bureau, Cooper, and another no-name brand that came with the trailer).  The Sailun's have a load rating of 3,860 per tire when used in dual configurations.

17.5" rubber is better than 16". Trouble with them in most places in availability. Just about any place you go will have some sort of 16" tire on the shelf to get you back on the road in a pinch. Heck tractor supply and the like keep 16" tires on the shelf that will keep you moving on a Sunday afternoon. A 17.5" tire is often times a special order item.

👍 .  The 16s are a 14 ply

After getting everything figured out I ordered my Diamond C trailer. The deal breaker was the 17.5 wheel and tire package. The rims only come in white. But on the 16s you could get black for a option. I said let's wait to see if they could do it. Dealer called the VP of Diamond and they said they could 😂. So I said ok let's order it. Interesting the same Gooseneck in the Super Single with 17.5 is the same GVWR as mine with tandems but the trailer is 675 bucks more

I really like that beaver tail on your trailer scsmith42. As you stated being able to go higher than level has some advantages. On the Diamond C the locking mechanism for the beaver tail is not on the cylinders and it's automatic when. To control the hydraulic jacks and tail there is a valve turned one way or the other. Corded control and a wireless remote also. You can get air suspension that has a dump valve to keep one set of tandems up or down with tandems or triples 

The Brute system uses a spacer bar between the top of the hyd cylinder and the top of the rod (think safety system on a backhoe that uses a u=shaped bar strapped around a cylinder rod).  

The nice thing about the Brute system is that it works even if you lose a hydraulic hose.  Don't ask me how I know this....  :D

Had a email from the dealer. What did you decide 32? After I added more stuff I told him I might go 35'. Still trying to decide 😂. He said go 35' when we where on the phone 

I would go with the 35. Seems like with a trailer you always run out of room. Every one I know that has the 17.5 tires really like them and have had very little trouble with them. I would carry a spare just in case. Have a buddy that has a triple axle 7000 pound axles that had 16 inch singles on it when the trailer was new and he had a lot of tire issues with it. He put the 17.5 tires and wheels on several years ago and his tire problems went away. 

You guys on class D's going bigger n better are gonna run out of license to cover the load, pure and simple.  The more trailer you add the less load youll have on the deck and im not joking at all.. The tickets are just gonna be bigger when you get your first out of service for being 15k over your plate and license.  They dont play no more.  10 cops can let people slide.. But they dont matter.  Its the one who shoves it all the way in.  My lesson cost a $900 tow, month of impound, 800 mile drive to court, plea bargain, additional fine and 2700 i think in storage fee.  


Playin with fire here boys.  Dont say i didnt warn ya. 

Over 26,001 no CDL here for anything for farm related operations 

The Diamond C FMAX 212 has a GVWR 25,900 with electric/hydraulic jacks, beaver tail and extras has a weight of 8,300 so you can haul 17,600 legally. Like Mike says or you're rolling the dice

Quote from: Walnut Beast on December 01, 2020, 12:58:51 PM
The Diamond C FMAX 212 has a GVWR 25,900 with electric/hydraulic jacks, beaver tail and extras has a weight of 8,300 so you can haul 17,600 legally. Like Mike says or you're rolling the dice

I believe the trailer limit for CDL A is 10,000# for the trailer and 26,000# for the truck/trailer combined. Farm Use exempted but any non-farm use including say moving your skid steer to the neighbors to do dirt work would not be exempt even if you grow more corn than anybody in the mid-west on your own farm.

Im gonna share a fact of life.  The state book can say youre exempt.  The cop says youre a contractor not a farmer, his pen hits the paper and thats the charge, too late now.   Now you're forced to submit to the whim of a district court yoy may not have ever heard of and theyll take your license without remorse.  The court doesnt embarass its troopers.  It protects them and orders you to hold them all harmless on your plea bargain.  You dont get off unless they get immunity first. 



By the NY state cdl handbook, i was exempt.  Didnt matter. Over $3k later i got my junk back.  Just how it is.  I dont mean to be a stickler here and i am a live free or die kinda guy.. but DOT really ruined me for a few years and i dont wanna see it happen to you guys or anyone else reading who are just trying to make an honest living like i was.   


Keep those fingers crossed when youre operating in the gray areas because sadly, it really is luck of the draw out there.  The manufacturer is selling stuff they call passenger that the man says is commercial.  Catch 22ish. 

Quote from: stavebuyer on December 01, 2020, 02:57:02 PM

Quote from: Walnut Beast on December 01, 2020, 12:58:51 PM
The Diamond C FMAX 212 has a GVWR 25,900 with electric/hydraulic jacks, beaver tail and extras has a weight of 8,300 so you can haul 17,600 legally. Like Mike says or you're rolling the dice

I believe the trailer limit for CDL A is 10,000# for the trailer and 26,000# for the truck/trailer combined. Farm Use exempted but any non-farm use including say moving your skid steer to the neighbors to do dirt work would not be exempt even if you grow more corn than anybody in the mid-west on your own farm.

You are correct 👍

Trailers going to be about 3 months out but it's ordered . I got about option you could get except the air ride suspension. That's only 5,500 😂. Did get the 17,500 winch option in it's own enclosed lockable box with corded and remote control. Never know when you need to back up to a nice log and winch it up on the hydraulic beaver tail that's good for 10 k 😂

I roll under the farm exemption and try to stick to hauling my own farm stuff on the big GN trailer. Any hay or equipment moves are for my own operation (helps owning multiple farms spread around). Start hauling non obvious farm stuff and it's a matter of time before you get burned.

Anything out of the "local" area I just poney up and pay somebody to haul it even if I'm capable because its cheaper than a stop.

When i got busted the trailer was dead empty and i was headed north for a load of my own property. Driving out of class was my only charge but she still wanted ifta, irp, logbook, dot and mc #s.. medical card etc.


Even though ive got a cdl now, theres nothing to stop a trooper from looking at my load of junk and saying i dont own it and that im an undercover hauler without dot/mc numbers, ifta stickers etc.  Its a mess that gets outta hand fast.  Youre always in violation according to someone.  Very frusterating.

I have had semi's for well over 40 years. I have ran commercial and farm mostly a five state area. As insurance and dot and getting drivers got tough we got out of the commercial side of things. I still have a DOT number for the farm side but don't need it now with the farm exempt from a CDL. I am down to two semi's and I never cross a state line and never get more than 100 miles from home with them. My farms are spread out about 20 miles from my home base and when I haul equipment between them I just stay on the county roads and now days when I move my dozer I pull the lowboy with my big farm tractor. If I buy a bigger piece of equipment far from home or out of state I just hire it hauled. It's not worth the chance of maybe getting a ticket from DOT that decided your not farm exempted. I just got stopped this Monday with my pickup and my dual axle ramp gate trailer twice in a 200 mile trip to pickup a new zero turn mower. The first stop was only three miles from home I pulled out of the fuel stop and DOT rolled up behind me as I was setting at the light getting on the highway he pulled me over and did a safety check. Every thing was fine lights, brakes on all axles, break away was working and safety chains all good. He kicked my lose. Later that day I got stopped over in the other state were two run together same kind of check and he looked at the paper work on the mower to make sure it was my mower for the farm as I have farm plates on my pickup's and trailer's. He kicked my lose. Years ago if I got stopped every five years I thought that was too much. Now days if I don't get stopped a least a couple of times during fall harvest I think there not doing there job. 

Anybody run a Shocker air ride hitch on your gooseneck?

Quote from: Walnut Beast on December 02, 2020, 05:54:57 PM
Anybody run a Shocker air ride hitch on your gooseneck?

About five years ago or so I was at a winter farm show with a buddy and we ran across the booth with the guy that builds the Shocker air ride hitch out of Arthur ND. The buddy of mine bought one and runs it on his 40 foot three axle aluminum gooseneck stock trailer. He's into pure breed cattle and show cattle so they probably tow 20,000 to 30,000 miles a year with that trailer and a F-550 four door ford truck. He thinks the hitch helps a lot but the truck does have air ride suspension on it also. 

Thanks hedgerow for all your very helpful feedback and opinions 👍👍. I did order the shocker hitch with the trailer. I actually called the dealer yesterday to ask him about the new Shocker hitch they just released for pre order. It's a 9" forward one and has the air bag vertical. For short box trucks (me). I tod the dealer I want that one. Dealer didn't even know about it. I thought he got it straight from Shocker. But when you order the trailer they just come from Diamond. So he said he would call them and see about getting that one

I was going to get the deck on the neck but since I'm getting the lockable winch box they can't do it. You could either get bolt on or weld on and get the winch setup under it. But I wanted the lockable box setup with battery and all wires enclosed. So I said let's forget the deck on the neck. I did go with the 17.5 wheels and tires with the Hutch adjustable suspension 

F-350 single axle.  25' gooseneck with two 7,000 pound axles.  I think everything is in good condition but old.  Don't load heavy and stay off the interstates.  Would DOT ever look at me?

Nice 👍. The dealer did tell me on the trailer I'm getting with tandem dually 12k axles that in the same trailer with super single 12 k axles they offer that a customer has said he gets stopped significantly less when they see the singles compared to when he had the tandem dually 

Quote from: Walnut Beast on December 01, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
Over 26,001 no CDL here for anything for farm related operations

Also, some states, such as Alabama, still consider farm vehicles as exempted but commercial, and still must have a DOT number, which require inspection and medical card if labeled over 10,000 lbs.

Small farmers see red (tape): Growers fear transportation requirement will up costs (http://archive.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/060323/farm.shtml)

If you are going to use a farm exemption there are still things you should do to protect yourself when you are in an often used and abused gray area of federal law.  Here are the mistakes I made over the years.  I'm not saying you're making them, I'm just throwing these out for others to hear, if they apply.

First would be to make sure the vehicles and trailers in question are specifically covered under farm insurance.  One reason is that your private vehicle insurance won't pay for a farm related accident.  Been there done that.  There needs to be something in your private policy that specifically says such and such trailer are covered for farm work.  If not, they won't.  Second reason is real farms have real vehicles, and they have real farm vehicle insurance.  

Next, get a medical card.  Then have your vehicles inspected once a year by a DOT certified garage.  How does this help?  Say you are in an accident.  You hurt or kill somebody.  You have exceeded CDL or DOT weight ratings but are legally hauling under a farm exemption, and are hauling "farm stuff."  As far as the law is concerned, the reason there are these laws is to protect people and make the streets safer.  So each law has a reason, and they actually protect and certify both the driver and the vehicles as being roadworthy.

After a serious wreck, you will be automatically sued by the victims insurance company as a well as ambulance lawyers.  Most likely about a million dollars or so.  So their job is to prove you or your vehicle was substandard or negligent in some way.  Questions such as: Are you healthy?  Did you momentarily black out due to high blood pressure? Are you driving hearing impaired?  Vision impaired? The answer need to be "Nope, here's my DOT physical card."  Then, why couldn't you have stopped sooner to avoid the accident?  Was the vehicle in good working order? We're you negligent in it's maintenance? We're the brakes working properly?  Were the tires in good shape? Were all the lights working?  Brake lights?  Once again, the answer needs to be "Nope, here is my annual DOT vehicle and trailer inspection sticker."

Once you have a farm tagged vehicle, and you have a "normal" job, you can't legally drive to it for other uses, and that is enforced in this area.  That's because the road tax and plate fees are much lower than than for private vehicles, and the systems puts restrictions on the use of the vehicle.  Here in Alabama, it exclusively restricts farm tagged vehicles from towing boats, recreational vehicles, or have exemptions if traveling (150 air miles or traveling on the Interstate).  I had a buddy get a ticket because he was asked where he was going when he got stopped.  He blurted he was late for work and when asked where he worked, at his primary job, a 9-5 business, the was given a choice to drive his farm vehicle (a nice Ford pickup) back home and come back with another vehicle, or get a ticket.  He said that wasn't right, so he got a ticket.

Either way, it sounds like a top notch trailer.  Congratulations!

Thanks Yellowhammer. You put some great insight into insurance and several other factors 👍. When I start doing some custom mulching in late spring it probably would be wise to be right on everything you mentioned for sure. Definitely sounds like you had the been there done that 😊

In Michigan we are allowed to use a farm plated truck for "transportation of the farmer or farmers family". So its no issue using it for grocery shopping or driving to work. I know other states aren't so lenient. 

Quote from: Larry on December 03, 2020, 09:43:32 PM
F-350 single axle.  25' gooseneck with two 7,000 pound axles.  I think everything is in good condition but old.  Don't load heavy and stay off the interstates.  Would DOT ever look at me?

There aint no tellin. 
  A 14k trailer is CDL in a lotta places.  And ignored in just as many.  Mine was an empty 30ft 14k goose, parked, with me asleep in it.   Start of a blitz. 

Quote from: Larry on December 03, 2020, 09:43:32 PM
F-350 single axle.  25' gooseneck with two 7,000 pound axles.  I think everything is in good condition but old.  Don't load heavy and stay off the interstates.  Would DOT ever look at me?

Around here they will find you on the two-lane that cuts through the area. But this is NY and our Governor has expensive tastes and needs. ;D
 In fact, they usually have a 'Fall Feeding Frenzy' where they set up a roadblock on that 2 lane around the last weekend of Rifle season for deer. They invite every law enforcement agency that can write a ticket in the area and they stop every car, check plates, registration, what's in the vehicle, hunting licenses, manifests, logs, tire treads, brakes, and everything and anything that might generate a ticket. When they find something or need help on a particular type of law or violation they get an Officer with that expertise to come over and carry on in detail. In the 70's they even had 2 Judges working out of the old town hall across the road to do arraignments on the spot. One year I stumbled into it and while I was waiting for my inspection struck up a chat with a hunter awaiting his fate. He had New Jersey plates on his car, but they saw a 'resident' hunting tag on his coat in the backseat. It wasn't a good day for him. Any hauler that got wrapped up in that might be there for quite awhile until they could find something. It was quite the little pop-up ticket factory. Every State, County, local LEO's as well as DEC, DEP, and few others were represented. I got lucky that one time, I looked like a local, got held up in the line for a while, but when they got to me with an old beat up truck, beard and floppy faded hunting hat, they did little more than check my license, registration and insurance. I was just annoyed, but as I drove off I realized I had a frozen venison roast laying on the back seat under a coat that a friend had given me when I left his place. That would have been fine except that it didn't have the required information on it per state law (takers name, date, etc) and if they had found that, I would have been busted too.
 All it takes is once and you will think twice for the rest of your life.

not to make it a long story but my day in the barrel was in old greenhorns state and they applied laws to me from other states.  I was legal in tennessee where i was licensed and plated.  But what NY couldnt shaft me on, they called massachusetts to get the go ahead.  I was going to a house i lost in massachusetts to empty out the garage for the constable.  Mass had no more talons on me but NY troopers just wanted to get it in that extra inch so they simply created extra authorities to do it. If it suits them, they will chose an authority claiming you are breaking the law and ignore ones that claim you arent.  Again, NY cdl book i had on my tablet in PDF at that time claimed i was exempt.  T


Is it legal or righteous what the rotten ones do?  No, not at all.  But it happens every day.  The troopers do what they want, they put the pen to paper and then their court backs them up.  Give up your license or give us immunity and your money, sign here, no talking, take it or leave it.  When they do you wrong you do not get to go talk in court.. Remind a judge of the section of a statute of law in his court and the bailiff walks you out by the arm.. Btdt.   Unless you have the money to throw at lawyers to talk for you [ and maybe still lose anyway] court in corrupt jurisdictions is just a formality.    And dont go mouthing off to a trooper during a stop unless you want something from the evidence locker to land in your trunk.  Just say thank you and try to stay out of cuffs.  Theyd love for you to flip out. 


6 hours i was detained before they left me standing there with nothing but my clothes, phone, wallet and keys, hundreds of miles from home with no money at all.  The truck i lived in locked up in a tow company compound.   Lets see how resourceful you are that day.  Its a sudden tornado that can happen to any of you. Dont take it lightly.  From sleeping to REALLY homeless in 6 hours, without doing anything wrong.  True story.  

Mike, that's just the kind of garbage that power hungry people like to pull. I'm so glad that around here those guys are MOSTLY easy to get along with. I've even taken the doors off of my pickup and they don't give a second look, that I know about. I'm seatbelted in and they can easily tell. I believe that's the #1 thing that any of them look for. I think I get away with it because so many Jeeps came from the factory with no doors and they don't know what to say. Since my truck has been relegated to MOSTLY tractor duty it's nice to take it out of its home once in a while. 

AHHH, the dumbfounded look on these local boys faces. 

BTW, I've even been on our local interstates with it and saw state troopers. They never gave chase at all. I don't know if I'm just lucky or what, and I personally don't care. As long as it continues. And yes, I still have all of my mirrors and other factory STUFF with the exception of the doors.

Quote from: mike_belben on December 05, 2020, 01:28:17 AM

Quote from: Larry on December 03, 2020, 09:43:32 PM
F-350 single axle.  25' gooseneck with two 7,000 pound axles.  I think everything is in good condition but old.  Don't load heavy and stay off the interstates.  Would DOT ever look at me?

There aint no tellin.
 A 14k trailer is CDL in a lotta places.  And ignored in just as many.  Mine was an empty 30ft 14k goose, parked, with me asleep in it.   Start of a blitz.

Just curious Mike where were you parked sleeping when they nailed you ?

I-84 eastbound.. You cross the river up out of matamoras PA into port jervis then climb the big hill.  Theres 3 "text stop rest stops" in a short distance, always full after dark.  The final one is a DOT inspection site when they feel like it.  I knew better than to stop in NY but was wide awake passing matamoras walmart.. Figured id made it to my inlaws in CT. Was swerving bad and would crash if i didnt pull over by the time i got to that 3rd one.  Climbed into sleeper delirious running TN to NY straight. 40 mins later a blitz starts and someone is pounding on the truck so hard i thought i was getting car jacked.  Ive had 50 people knock on a sleeper.. None like this.  I was scared for my life.  Soon as i come up front shes screaming at me.


Anyways.. It was the middletown barracks they cover exits 3/4/5/6 i think.  Wawayanda town court.  Racket goes right up to the captain. Impound your stuff on bogus charges, no receipt, try to keep it.  Huge storage and tow fees at a kickback tow operation instead of going to the state police hold yard like it should, for free. instead they bang you $250 A DAY for truck and trailer but wont investigate until you owe more than the thing is worth.  She warned me of it taking a while for NYC investigators to come out.  Total lie.  The detectives are right there at their barracks.  Thats why i got a driving out of class charge and not stolen trailer.. You dont put false charges in writing.  Theyre crooks. Albany didnt care either.  Regional Towing in middletown was the yard.  $900 for 10 minute ride. Cash only.  Wonder why.


@coxy (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=14170) knows the trooper.  Retired, got away with it all from what i can tell.


After NY id say southwest virginia is the next worst interstate racket ive experienced.  They let campers park all over but ticket trucks right next to them.  Theyve got parking spots on the shoulder that they keep open but put up signs about 6 years ago.  Trucks get a hundred bucks a pop and 3 points on their license. Thats the same as reckless driving.  Youre essentially getting a reckless driving charge for doing the safe thing.. Pulling into a rest stop when you cant drive any further.  They make about 5 grand a day in parking ticket revenue off the trucks from roanoake to bristol.  So thats why the spots remain open. It aint about safety, its about money.  Virginia is for ticket lovers. 

PS.. We back the blue and all that.  I dont dislike cops one bit.  Just the criminals that sneak into a badge.  I say hang them. 

WOW! Glad that's behind you.  I bet several times you wished you would have pulled your rig in somewhere else. 

I bet that brings a few memories back of 😡😡😂

Oh i was wound up just typing it and i am very uneasy up there anymore.  It took years to recover from that event. 


I had no issues during 13months in a bigrig with 3 vin numbers.  Sometimes went over 5 scales in a day with paperlogs in a truck that required ELD.  Go figger!

I am looking to buy a big manure spreader.  Looking at a 195 NH just across the line in Nebraska.  Can I go get it with either the F-450 or Chevy 2500 if I get it bought?  Auction, online. Do not want to face what Mike was looking at.  Think I can just back up to it and put a pin in the hitch and drag it home.  They have no brakes, just have to drive reasonable.  About 100 miles from home. I do have a farm tag on the F-450.

Quote from: farmfromkansas on December 06, 2020, 04:58:16 PM
I am looking to buy a big manure spreader.  Looking at a 195 NH just across the line in Nebraska.  Can I go get it with either the F-450 or Chevy 2500 if I get it bought?  Auction, online. Do not want to face what Mike was looking at.  Think I can just back up to it and put a pin in the hitch and drag it home.  They have no brakes, just have to drive reasonable.  About 100 miles from home. I do have a farm tag on the F-450.

I wouldn't have any problem doing that I just wouldn't go down highway 81 threw the Herbon scale. I would hook a safety chain between the spreader and truck. I have pulled a lot of farm equipment threw KS and Ne no problem. 

Quote from: mike_belben on December 05, 2020, 05:22:05 PM
Oh i was wound up just typing it and i am very uneasy up there anymore.  It took years to recover from that event.

Amen.  

Mike's story is way worse than mine, but the shades were the same.  When they finally let me go, after I called my wife on my cell phone and told her I may be going to jail, and she asked me why and I said "I have no idea."  So, you can get your vehicle impounded and go to jail for simply pulling a gooseneck trailer with a pickup truck.  They actually gave me a police escort to the nearest weigh station where they had an impound lot, so they weren't playing.  However, after writing me ticket after ticket, they let me leave, maybe because I did have the correct commercial insurance and a medical card, and wasn't exceeding the CDL margin, just the DOT rules.  

I think the takeaway I learned is that if I was going to do the towing thing routinely, it was easier to jump through the hoops, which also serve to protect me, then try to dodge on the fringe.  Since that time, I have become 100% DOT FMCSA legal, I sleep better at night, have passed many police on the road, and instead of them snapping their head around when I pass by, now they see the bright yellow DOT magnetic sign on the door, and they wave.  Whole different thing when they know I'm playing by the rules.  

Maybe put a slow moving sign on it or magnetic tail lights 

Theres a little more to the story, not related to vehicles, in terms of things they had against me, and things they did to make it much much worse.. but the statute of limitations isnt up on that yet and internet posts are routinely used to incriminate a defendant so youll just have to wait on that one. 

  

While detained i was on the phone with my attorney and had my wife writing up a gofundme.  A lengthy prison stay was everyones full expectation and i said Lord if you want me to preach in fishkill i'll do it but im hoping you have better plans for me.  

FOPA 1986.. Study up.  

 
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 Industry first  16k electric over hydraulic 

Better get your CDLs handy. 


When did david spade get into the trailer business?

Walnut Beast
Seems like were seeing more and more the need for what I would heavier duty hot shot style trailers. That heavier axle will be nice. Have you heard when you will get the trailer you ordered?

They said it should be in the first week of February. I  called and was thinking of changing from 32' to 35'. He said it was to late it's in production. That's ok. I had talked to a couple guys that had longer ones that went back to shorter ones for hauling equipment and they said they were a pain to get around in tighter places. I probably should have told him 35'. It was only another 490. Prices have went way up since I ordered it

Quote from: mike_belben on January 24, 2021, 09:31:49 AM
Better get your CDLs handy.


When did david spade get into the trailer business?

The guy on the left is Jason Crabb. One of the owners. Son to Mike & Kim that started the company. Interesting story about how he started the company from nothing. Sales in a old mobile home trailer and a little shop to a premier company today. He was the one that designed the torque tube in the longer goosenecks after farmers had problems with heavy loads in the earlier years. A true story of Dreams can be achieved. That's why the family  company has some great values about their customers and employees 

Prices went up 6% on Diamond C trailers and Big Tex trailers

 
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 This guy got this trailer from the guys I'm getting mine from. He ordered it with the oak floor and he stained and sealed it

That looks nice!

It's just going to be a shame to scuff it up from doing any work.

He used Cabot gold satin moonlit mahogany 

Stain on a trailer deck? Haha.

Haul around some equipment and the deck will be coated in motor oil, hydraulic oil, and diesel before too long. Add some tire skuff marks, steel track marks, etc and that pretty stain job was all for nothing.

 
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 Guys are hauling stuff like this all the time now

Seems like around my farm wood floor flat bed trailers just don't work out. No matter how careful I am wood floors and equipment just don't go together. My two bigger flat bed trailers have steel floors and work real well. I do have a smaller 7x14 that I haul my Grasshopper mower and my compact tractor on and its wood. I try not to skid things on that trailer it does have a ramp gate and I really like it but I rebuilt it years ago with quarter inch plate steel the wire mesh didn't hold up.  

The oak flooring seems to hold up pretty good

Free of heart will last 2x longer than flat sawn wide planks.  They get laid down green and dry on one side in scorching sun then split at the heart and pool water until the boards split in two on their own. 


Motor oil helps

 
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My tilt deck has a diamond plate rear section, and my GN flatbed has diamond plate over the tires. It is miserable stuff,  when its cold and frosty its extremely dangerous (thats like 7 months of a year here), anything on steel tracks it is dangerous, spill any oil on it and its slicker than owl scat.

I'll replace wood every few years over sliding a piece of equipment off the deck because the steel is frosted up.

I just said to my wife, "hunny, how slick is owl sh..?


She said "whooooooo knows?"

:laugh:

Good people and dealers make all the difference in the world. I have a custom order on the way but we had 32' down , then 35' on trailer length but 32' is built and on the way. We went several rounds on who was right or wrong in a good way. Bottom line the dealer wants me to be happy so was willing to order a new trailer at 35' even though the trailer is custom and very expensive. The two month wait is now 6 months. Crazy times

Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 02, 2021, 07:04:13 PM
Good people and dealers make all the difference in the world. I have a custom order on the way but we had 32' down , then 35' on trailer length but 32' is built and on the way. We went several rounds on who was right or wrong in a good way. Bottom line the dealer wants me to be happy so was willing to order a new trailer at 35' even though the trailer is custom and very expensive. The two month wait is now 6 months. Crazy times

I did just stay with the 32' that's on the way

 
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 Does anybody have a deck on the neck and if so how do they like it ?

Had one on my 30ft GN but it had to be clipped in the corners alot or it hit my sleeper.  I have a stubby toter frame and the ball is already behind my drive axle.  

Mike what do you think about the angle corners on the DC one. Do you think that's enough. I'm debating on getting it. Was going to put a fuel tank up there

 
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 I couldn't go with the deck on the neck with the winch box setup. I could have went with the winch underneath the deck but I wanted the one in the lockable box. Then I changed my mind over a month later and called but it was already in production. I might just order the bolt on one and fab around the 17.5k winch

on a stock 2wd truck that is low to the ground with no headache rack, the top deck can pass over the roof on a flat ground jackknife and the trailer not be a mile high with the gooseneck sleeve telescoped all the way elongated to clear.   or you can have the ball up on a riser, such as a 5th wheel hitch and an adapter ball for an extra chunk of clearance.  a longbed will probably be okay at normal height but a short bed will not.  it was my buddy who clipped the trailer i own now to clear the cab on his jacked up 4door 8ft bed f350 but i never really saw it in action hooked to his truck so i can't say too well.  i think on my dodge dually longed it would have passed over the roof but i don't remember, only pulled it a time or two.


my 2 ton has a sleeper that is way over the trailer neck and the ball is only about 3 feet behind the sleeper so there was no fudging it.  if not clipped i couldn't turn at all and i still can't go to a full 90.  


in a 260" wb semi truck with a 48 spread with double dumps picking and dropping in very very tight industrial spaces, mega rich backyards, turning around in the woods at quarries.. all sort of places where it "can't be done" .. i was always jackknifing to the max.  with double dumps you can crab walk the trailer by dumping the spread and pivoting from one axle to the other so the trailer tips toes side to side with only back and forth forward travel of the rig.  it doesn't work on a closed tandem so jackknifing my GN that hard is a really peculiar thing except say when stuck and you just slide into a bad position.  my trailer has hit my sleeper on both sides. 


not that this clears anything up.  i guess its a long way to say i don't know. 

Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 02, 2021, 10:26:01 PM

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 Does anybody have a deck on the neck and if so how do they like it ?

Years ago I had a 40 ft four axle single tire flatbed that had a 8X8 deck like that on the gooseneck. The trailer was built for hauling square bale hay and that is what I used it for also. It was a used trailer when I bought it. Back then I pulled it with a short wheel base C65 gas burner tractor and you had to watch when you started jacking it around. Worked great for hay. I sold the trailer when we quiet baling little squares. If you want to mount a fuel tank on the gooseneck  just use some angle or channel across the neck and bolt the tank to it. I ran one for years that way with a 100 gallon tank. Worked great. Around here you will see the landscaping guys will had a deck like that once in a while. 

 
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 Anybody looking for a better ride with there Gooseneck this is the answer 

Ill bet the price is a shocker.

My GN has an 8x8 deck on the neck. Comes in handy once in a while for things but even on a long bed truck I have to constantly watch when on uneven ground making tight maneuvers. 

One of these days I'm probably going to get aggravated enough with it I'll torch it off.

Quote from: Walnut Beast on December 01, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
Over 26,001 no CDL here for anything for farm related operations

I was reading the thread to see if you had a farm card since you have a farm. I have the farm exempt. Good for you.

 
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 Two lift axle DC trailer 

 
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 Many different tow rigs work 

Sounds like trailer is on the way after this nasty weather. DC plants shut down three days. Added Options.       BOX: 14" X 14" X 42" UNDERSLUNG (3.00) , NOTE: *** 1 ON FRONT---BOTH SIDES *** 1 IN FRONT OF TIRES ON PASSENGER SIDE *** | BRAKES: ELEC OVER HYD, 12K DISC W/ HEAVY DUTY ADJUSTABLE SUSPENSION | CHARGER: 7 WATT SOLARPULSE PANEL | COUPLER: SHOCKER HITCH (GN PKG) | EXTRA CLEARANCE LIGHTS: EXTRA CLEARANCE LIGHTS (4 PAIR) | FLOOR: 2" OAK FLOOR | FLOOR: ZIG-ZAG FLOORSCREWS  | JACK: DUAL 12K HYDRAULIC JACKS | SPARE: ST215/75R17.5 16-PLY DUAL BLACK, NOTE: *** BLACK WHEEL *** | SPARE MOUNT: FOLD DOWN SPARE MOUNT UNDER NECK | STEPS: EXTRA RETRACTABLE STEPS (PAIR) | TIEDOWNS: HD 5/8" D-RINGS (10.00)  | TIRES/WHEELS: ST215/75R17.5 16-PLY DUALS BLACK, NOTE: *** BLACK WHEELS *** | WINCH: 17,500# ELEC WINCH PACKAGE (INCLUDES WINCH PLATE)

Looks good. What are zig zag floor screws?

My Brute came with 1.5" oak decking. I debated about going with 2", but did not want the extra weight for the thicker decking to detract from my payload capacity.

Thanks, The zig zag floor screws are the ones they use to hold the flooring down. I got extra. Every cross member instead of every three

 
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 How about a 30k dump trailer. 8" bore TELESCOPIC Lift Cylinder with 13 hp electric start option is only 7,200 bucks 😂

Well if youre buyin...

A look into Snowmageddon 2021 at DC factory 

https://youtu.be/ZUX_b6XTVus (https://youtu.be/ZUX_b6XTVus)

Wow. Got a call from dealer.  Trailer was on the way to the dealer and Semi driver was in a accident in Kansas. Four trailers all over the road. Dealers never had that happen. Nobody got hurt but trailers all over the road. Expensive load. My trailer was over 38k retail. I'm sure Jacob Crabb one of the family owners is stressed out. Six months out on new ones, plant shut down a week due to storm in Texas and now trailers all over the road. Owner and dealer were talking and it doesn't sound like that's happened very often. 

Oh wow.  No bueno

 
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 Options can add weight 😂. First pic is same model trailer but longer and weight is 8,950 with chains , binders and dunnage empty. Second trailer 32' the guy just got also and said he was surprised the 7,600 on trailer sticker was actually 9,400. It has 17.5 wheels, disc brakes, oak floor and hydraulic tail. The 7,600 on the sticker is base trailer weight no options. That really got me thinking. I'm probably looking at 10,500 or more on mine 

I think you said you had farm exemption in your jurisdiction... You will be staying in that location only i hope? 


Those rigs are the ones DOT is hammering hardest these days because so many undercover hotshotters have turned it into a revenue jackpot.  I have crossed up to 7 scales in a single day running completely [i plead the fifth] without ANY trouble .. A slightly deeper look woulda put me OOS.. Those hotshots got the fine tooth comb. 


Just fyi.. In KY not having dot/mc/ifta/kyu tags in the window is gonna get attention with that trailer so have your exemption proof on hand at all times.  Theyll expect you to pull in at the scales too.  I mean you can just bypass and let em chase you dont but be prepared paper wise. 

Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 26, 2021, 04:45:14 PM
Wow. Got a call from dealer.  Trailer was on the way to the dealer and Semi driver was in a accident in Kansas. Four trailers all over the road. Dealers never had that happen. Nobody got hurt but trailers all over the road. Expensive load. My trailer was over 38k retail. I'm sure Jacob Crabb one of the family owners is stressed out. Six months out on new ones, plant shut down a week due to storm in Texas and now trailers all over the road. Owner and dealer were talking and it doesn't sound like that's happened very often.

So was your trailer damaged in the accident? 

Sounds like all all four trailers got trashed. He said I don't think you want it. and like most DC trailers coming in they were all sold so they had to make a few calls that they haven't had to do before. One of the owners is seeing how fast and when he can get them built

Since my trailer is getting built again I'm thinking of a few changes. I had the oak floor and dove tail but I might go full cleat on dove
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Opinions 

 
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 I'm doing weld on deck on the neck from the factory but last time they didn't offer it and they wouldn't do it with the winch box up there together. It got ran by one of the owners and thy said no. I put a special request in to one of the owners this time and he said give me a napkin sketch and it sounds like he said they are going to make it happen. It's basically the cut out for winch box. I also did all steel deck on the neck. One thing about the all steel deck on the neck is it will be painted fully underneath 

 
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 Fold down spare tire option is pretty handy but a must if you have the deck on the neck

Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 02, 2021, 06:19:00 PM
Sounds like all all four trailers got trashed. He said I don't think you want it. and like most DC trailers coming in they were all sold so they had to make a few calls that they haven't had to do before. One of the owners is seeing how fast and when he can get them built

Sorry to hear about the trailer. I guess the good thing is you can make some changes now. Good you weren't waiting on it to make a living with it. Years ago when I hauled fuel I had ordered a new tank and it was in jack knife accident on the way from the factory and was damaged. Guy I had sold my old trailer to had already picked it up from me. Dealer rounded up a used trailer for me to use and there shop rebuilt the trailer. I ended up with a new cheap tank but it did have a salvage title. But at half price I had no problem with that. Never had any issues with that tank. 

I would go with the full cleats on the deck. Not really a downside to that setup.

I think that's the way I'm going to go. Talked to the trailer dealer today and he said they are the busiest they have ever been. And they already move a lot of trailers in a small town out in the middle of nowhere . People ordering trailers of all types like crazy. 

I have been looking into a new gooseneck also. Mine is to short and tall. I want a low pro with 9' spread. I wanted a pj but keep hearing bad things about paint. Does anyone know if the diamond c has a better paint? 

Go to the Diamond C site and look under resources and there is a learning center there and a pretty cool walkthrough of there cleaning, powder coating and baking process pretty cool

Shoot just caught up on this sorry about the trailer disaster. I guess you get a redo on the options though.

on my pj the only paint issue is on the bottoms of the flip over ramps, some peeling.

Quote from: doc henderson on March 04, 2021, 01:45:32 AM
on my pj the only paint issue is on the bottoms of the flip over ramps, some peeling.

Can you give me a little back ground. Age and use kinda stuff. Thanks. 

Friend that delivered a machine with his PJ gooseneck that had electric ramps was showing me all the paint peeling off different places especially on the ramps. The trailer was less than two years old. Quite honestly you could have problems with any of them Depends on how much salt your rolling through or getting your trailer sandblasted on the country roads 😂

Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 04, 2021, 05:33:33 AM
Friend that delivered a machine with his PJ gooseneck that had electric ramps was showing me all the paint peeling off different places especially on the ramps. The trailer was less than two years old. Quite honestly you could have problems with any of them Depends on how much salt your rolling through or getting your trailer sandblasted on the country roads 😂

Sorry on your trailer. leastwise it happened to them hauling it and not you towing it.

On pj or pc. pc much better. back in the late nineties' we started pc'ing our ag equipment. the pc wood peal if the frames weren't sandblasted first. no exceptions. it wood vary, but none the less they wood peal also.


Busiest they have ever been...... Can anyone splain that? I talked to my favorite lumber yard owner yesterday about a quote I had sent over a few days ago and he apologized, but he's been the busiest he's ever been. He said it's unreal..... say_what
I've heard it's pent up demand from shut down states that are opening up, ok, but thought so many were unemployed..... so who's buying with what money? Now that i said that, houses here are crazy. Many, many are being sold to west coaster's, specially from comyfornia.  

Neighbor has a 3ish year old Diamond C trailer and it looks no different in the paint department than my same age Load Max. Gravel roads and Michigan salt treat them all the same. 

will check the age, but around 7 years maybe.  the ramps have a flat bit of metal that contacts the ground.  there are flaps of paint on these that looks like you could pull off.  no where else on the trailer.  these have flexed and bent in a few places.  I can get a pic.  the rustolium gloss black paint, looks the same and I touch stuff up, if I make repairs ect.  mine sits more than used.  hobby logger ect.

I have a couple buddy's that are on the side equipment jockey's and haul a lot in the winter and on gravel roads. With them there are two schools of thought on trailers. One runs steel flatbeds and about every three years the road salt, gravel is starting to get to the paint and its starting to need brakes and tires he just sells the trailer and buys a new one. The other buddy bought a custom built aluminum flatbed probably been 15 plus years ago now and is still running it and it still looks good. I don't know which way is the best. I do know we went to aluminum stock trailers years ago and that was the best thing I could have done. All my flatbeds are steel but I don't haul in the winter on wet roads. 

Whoa, that sucks.  Clearly Diamond C are no good if they can't handle falling off of a tractor trailer in a wreck.  I'd keep searching for one that would survive that unscathed.

Thanks on the paint info. I kinda figured there's only so much that can be done. I think the biggest problem is they paint new steel. And it don't like to stick. But what do I know lol  anyways. Aluminum would be nice but I don't see any low pros. The machine I need it for is 10'8" tall. 

Quote from: firefighter ontheside on March 04, 2021, 05:13:12 PM
Whoa, that sucks.  Clearly Diamond C are no good if they can't handle falling off of a tractor trailer in a wreck.  I'd keep searching for one that would survive that unscathed.

Not good when they fall off but they can pull 😂
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 A guy posted his first heavy load on his new DC

I'm surprised at other people's paint issues with PJ trailers.  My paint looks fine, except where it's been rubbed off, scraped, or otherwise hit with loaders or forklifts.  I'm on my third set of tires, it sees almost daily use, and even the manufacturer decal has faded to where I can barely read it, but the paint is fine.  

We don't salt roads here in Alabama, mainly because it rarely snows, so that may be the differentiating factor.  

I think it's probably the nasty salt. That stuff can be hard on everything

The dealer informed me and one of the owners of DC that they are bringing in a special crew to build my trailer and the other three this weekend. I was wondering how they where going Slip them in since they are 6 months out on trailers especially the goosenecks. The demand is crazy. I asked about people that where driving all over the country to get a trailer from a dealer that had one in stock. The dealer is getting 30 to 40 calls a day from all over the country and usually has somebody put a deposit down about everyday after they call everywhere on prices 😂. These guys move a lot of trailers and have really really good prices 

On the paint issue, I've found over many years and a number of trailers, if you use the trailers in salted road country, the paint is going to fail. The problem is the paint system most trailer manufacturers use is acid wash and powder coat. The paint companies claim their powder coat paint system is a combination primer/top coat system and that paint will only last a few years in salt country before it is peeling and showing rust thru. Of course any mechanical damage to the paint is going to accelerate rusting from underneath the paint.

I have two truck and trailer refurbishing operations near me and both will tell you the one good paint system requires bead blasting, a very good zinc rich epoxy primer, and a high solids industrial epoxy paint system. They both say to put most of your money in the cleaning and primer system. 

Last week I went to a local large trailer sale lot to look at dump trailers to haul firewood and other lose materials plus a skid steer. My son had bought a Lamar a few years ago (and is already unhappy with the paint showing rust thru under the box) so that was where I started looking. The salesman had me look at a Load Trail because he said the sides were heavier steel and I immediately saw in the seam where the sides sit on the bed of the trailer there was already rust stains showing thru in the seam. When I pointed that out he told me he had another manufacturer, B & B that bead blasted, zinc rich primer and epoxy top coated all their trailers and it showed. But that same dump trailer from B & B was about $1700 more though it was better built in other ways.

So I have no doubt that acid wash/etch with powder coat is a cheaper paint method but if you live where they use salt on the roads, it's going to fail sooner rather than later. Here in MN where they now use that Chloride solution on the roads, nothing will escape the wrath of that chemical for long.

Oh and in the end, I decided against any new trailer because I don't need a trailer very often to move my skid steer and the price was just too much for the convenience of having a skid steer and easy firewood moving capable trailer available.   

 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/81CFF0FA-8EBD-42F1-9BF1-78682E9E157C.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615457349)
  Diamond C System 

Yeah I think the paint issues in our winter environment would be tuff. In regards to trailer back orders I called a dealer south of here for a pj. Had one left. And said they move 30 trailers a week! I never would have guessed that! 

Goosenecks are in a bubble, just like pickup trucks. 

I've heard good things about POR 15 paint systems. Never used it myself, but plan to this spring for a project. Cures with humidity, similar to Gorilla glue.

Pretty cool when the owner of a multi million dollar company say send me a napkin sketch of a special request I had on the deck on the neck and got back to me and said they would make it happen. The first time the dealer went through all the channels it was a no.  (Like they got time to jack around with a special request to fabricate something different than what they offer) I was pleasantly surprised he made it happen when they are many months out especially  on gooseneck trailers and almost all are sold already and a recent plant shutdown for a week during the crazy snowstorm in Texas  

Quote from: PoginyHill on March 11, 2021, 07:15:35 AM
I've heard good things about POR 15 paint systems. Never used it myself, but plan to this spring for a project. Cures with humidity, similar to Gorilla glue.

I used that stuff years ago and it seemed to work pretty good. They had a high temp paint for manifolds in bright silver and that stuff looked and worked very nice

I just looked at the Diamond C website, the trailers look nice.  Locally, there are trailer manufacturers very 60 mile for so here, they build form scratch, and they are generally pretty good.  The two big names locally are Lone Wolf, and PJ.  I've owned several of each, and the PJ is considered the high end, and the dealer sales parking lots full, as fast as he can get them.  

The PJ feels noticeable stiffer and more solid when towing, than any other trailer I've used, so I buy them for their structural quality.  The lower end trailers have a noticeable twist and flex that can be unnerving when heavily loaded.

I had not heard of Diamond C before this topic, We don't have any local dealers, and I don't ever recall seeing them on the road, we see mostly PJ and Big Tex.  However, I will be looking hard at Diamond C, if they are better than PJ, that says something.

 

Quote from: YellowHammer on March 11, 2021, 07:49:12 AM
The PJ feels noticeable stiffer and more solid when towing, than any other trailer I've used, so I buy them for their structural quality.  The lower end trailers have a noticeable twist and flex that can be unnerving when heavily loaded.

I recall that PJ's better gooseneck trailers have a torque tube installed in-between the frame rails that helps to reduce twist on the front of the trailer. 

Here are a couple pictures of the older Diamond C that went with the main name of Fleet neck then now it's the opposite and Fleet neck is still on there but Diamond C is the main name. Also you can see the difference of the patented engineered one piece beam that's exclusive to them
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/B382AFD9-86FB-4681-9255-81FCB09F844A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615600958)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/E5B51C5A-2F6C-42DC-87FB-67D81318ADA1.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615600957)
 

 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/5327B853-D71A-4EE4-BD5A-1F27DD2897FF.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615611897)
 How would you like to have this for a color. HELLO! I know a guy getting ready to pull the trigger on a 40ft,40k air ride same color 

Definitely easy to readily ID, as long as it is NOT painted by the thief!

To each his own I guess.  Even if that were my favorite color I wouldn't want it on my trailer.  I'll stick with a black one.

Quote from: firefighter ontheside on March 14, 2021, 09:13:22 AM
To each his own I guess.  Even if that were my favorite color I wouldn't want it on my trailer.  I'll stick with a black one.

Good for you.  They offer 12 different colors and when your spending some big money on a trailer you have choices. It's nice to have a little variety that's why many guys are ordering different colors. Next time you buy a truck whatever your favorite color is you better just get black 😂

Like that a big boy black 450 and black DC that he just got and getting ready to pimp out with polished aluminum rims and other goodies
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/F20E15CD-032F-409B-929E-D576865BFCC4.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615756051)
 

My favorite color is red and I had 3 red trucks, but last 2 have not been red.  Maybe someday I'll get another one.  Currently have silver and I'd like to have blue before I make my way back to red.  I almost got black for current truck, but couldn't find one with all the options I wanted.

Well Ive been kicking around the idea of getting a new gooseneck also. I've read this wealth of knowledge topic and many others on the internet and can't seem to find what I want to know. First off I have a class A, and Michigan goes by tire weight. 700 pounds per inch of rubber. And it has to say on side wall. Tandem duals can haul 32k once you go to 3 or more you go down to 13,000 per axle. So a tri axle dual is 39k and a tri singles is 36k. I want three axles for the added brake power. I've always heard tri axles suck. Get a tandem dual. But with these heavy 17.5s now a days and heavy frames, torque tubes 12,15,16k axles and suspensions wouldn't a tri axle be stable also? Does anyone know of a tri axle with the 6,000 pound 17.5s? 

@Walnut Beast (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=49695) ....I think you should go with red ;).

Quote from: Nebraska on March 16, 2021, 09:45:29 PM
@Walnut Beast (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=49695) ....I think you should go with red ;).

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 Like that. The guy actually hates red but his family loves red. So he didn't have a choice 😂

Yep. I if I got to pick the color that would be it.

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on March 16, 2021, 09:04:41 PM
Well Ive been kicking around the idea of getting a new gooseneck also. I've read this wealth of knowledge topic and many others on the internet and can't seem to find what I want to know. First off I have a class A, and Michigan goes by tire weight. 700 pounds per inch of rubber. And it has to say on side wall. Tandem duals can haul 32k once you go to 3 or more you go down to 13,000 per axle. So a tri axle dual is 39k and a tri singles is 36k. I want three axles for the added brake power. I've always heard tri axles suck. Get a tandem dual. But with these heavy 17.5s now a days and heavy frames, torque tubes 12,15,16k axles and suspensions wouldn't a tri axle be stable also? Does anyone know of a tri axle with the 6,000 pound 17.5s?

You don't need triples to get a 30k and 40k trailer.  You can go to the Diamond C site and build your trailer from the different models 

Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 16, 2021, 10:29:44 PM

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on March 16, 2021, 09:04:41 PM
Well Ive been kicking around the idea of getting a new gooseneck also. I've read this wealth of knowledge topic and many others on the internet and can't seem to find what I want to know. First off I have a class A, and Michigan goes by tire weight. 700 pounds per inch of rubber. And it has to say on side wall. Tandem duals can haul 32k once you go to 3 or more you go down to 13,000 per axle. So a tri axle dual is 39k and a tri singles is 36k. I want three axles for the added brake power. I've always heard tri axles suck. Get a tandem dual. But with these heavy 17.5s now a days and heavy frames, torque tubes 12,15,16k axles and suspensions wouldn't a tri axle be stable also? Does anyone know of a tri axle with the 6,000 pound 17.5s?

You don't need triples to get a 30k and 40k trailer.  You can go to the Diamond C site and build your trailer from the different models

You can get a 307 DC Gooseneck that has 3 7k Axels  that is a 24k GVWR trailer or the 212 Gooseneck in dual tandem without 17.5 wheels that's 25,900 GVWR or the 212 Super Single same trailer and axels but with 17.5 wheels and the GVWR is the same 

I could do a red trailer, but I really like that silver truck.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36921/received_749607432356987.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615949423)
 

That silver is sharp 👍. That would be a tough decision on a color even know there are several choices besides black 

Here is another 307 in the dump version that a guy ordered and just got in that is 24k GVWR. He's got a bunch of options on here also torsion axles and disc brakes to name a few. He does bumper pull because this is how he rolls
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/482C337F-B04E-41D1-A732-A7E1AC0C79EC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615955889)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/D62E7BB1-3E3C-44AD-A7EE-329736ABBD7A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615955889)
 

One nice thing about Red is that it is easy to find when you park it in the woods, or a parking lot during a blizzard. ;D

Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 16, 2021, 10:44:12 PM

Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 16, 2021, 10:29:44 PM

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on March 16, 2021, 09:04:41 PM
Well Ive been kicking around the idea of getting a new gooseneck also. I've read this wealth of knowledge topic and many others on the internet and can't seem to find what I want to know. First off I have a class A, and Michigan goes by tire weight. 700 pounds per inch of rubber. And it has to say on side wall. Tandem duals can haul 32k once you go to 3 or more you go down to 13,000 per axle. So a tri axle dual is 39k and a tri singles is 36k. I want three axles for the added brake power. I've always heard tri axles suck. Get a tandem dual. But with these heavy 17.5s now a days and heavy frames, torque tubes 12,15,16k axles and suspensions wouldn't a tri axle be stable also? Does anyone know of a tri axle with the 6,000 pound 17.5s?

You don't need triples to get a 30k and 40k trailer.  You can go to the Diamond C site and build your trailer from the different models

You can get a 307 DC Gooseneck that has 3 7k Axels  that is a 24k GVWR trailer or the 212 Gooseneck in dual tandem without 17.5 wheels that's 25,900 GVWR or the 212 Super Single same trailer and axels but with 17.5 wheels and the GVWR is the same

A tandem dual has 4 brakes I want 6. And if I ran singles I have to have the 17.5 to meet enough weight per axle. I want to know about stability not weight. The diamond c with single 17.5 appear to have the same frame/axles as the dually, as the tires sit in. That would not be as stable as tires out at the edge with wider frame rails. Duals are a waste in Michigan if you have a combination axle. You can have ten tires on one axle and only haul 13,000 on it. (If in a tree or more combination)  Only good thing with duals is when you blow a tire you can limp it on one. 

You can spin it anyway you want but I know one thing in almost every state that hotshot guys are running in including your state there are two weights they look at GVWR of your tow vehicle and GVWR of your trailer. Your tires should have the correct tires for your GVWR. That's why if you look at a 30k or 40k Diamond C 216 trailer it comes standard with the 17.5 wheels. Just curious have you ever run hydraulic disc brakes on a trailer ? 

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on March 17, 2021, 06:12:08 AM

Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 16, 2021, 10:44:12 PM

Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 16, 2021, 10:29:44 PM

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on March 16, 2021, 09:04:41 PM
Well Ive been kicking around the idea of getting a new gooseneck also. I've read this wealth of knowledge topic and many others on the internet and can't seem to find what I want to know. First off I have a class A, and Michigan goes by tire weight. 700 pounds per inch of rubber. And it has to say on side wall. Tandem duals can haul 32k once you go to 3 or more you go down to 13,000 per axle. So a tri axle dual is 39k and a tri singles is 36k. I want three axles for the added brake power. I've always heard tri axles suck. Get a tandem dual. But with these heavy 17.5s now a days and heavy frames, torque tubes 12,15,16k axles and suspensions wouldn't a tri axle be stable also? Does anyone know of a tri axle with the 6,000 pound 17.5s?

You don't need triples to get a 30k and 40k trailer.  You can go to the Diamond C site and build your trailer from the different models

You can get a 307 DC Gooseneck that has 3 7k Axels  that is a 24k GVWR trailer or the 212 Gooseneck in dual tandem without 17.5 wheels that's 25,900 GVWR or the 212 Super Single same trailer and axels but with 17.5 wheels and the GVWR is the same

A tandem dual has 4 brakes I want 6. And if I ran singles I have to have the 17.5 to meet enough weight per axle. I want to know about stability not weight. The diamond c with single 17.5 appear to have the same frame/axles as the dually, as the tires sit in. That would not be as stable as tires out at the edge with wider frame rails. Duals are a waste in Michigan if you have a combination axle. You can have ten tires on one axle and only haul 13,000 on it. (If in a tree or more combination)  Only good thing with duals is when you blow a tire you can limp it on one.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/55BDE2B9-CC35-4C1B-BDFD-048BB83A0D64.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615989960)
 If your so worried about stability you can get the triples in the step deck like this out to 53' 30 or 40k and the 312 Gooseneck out to 44' at 30 or 40 k. There seems to be plenty of guys hauling max trailer amounts and beyond everyday that are pretty happy 

That's exactly what I want but in Michigan that trailer can gross 39,000 and 39,000 also with singles. Providing the tires will hold the weight. If I ran 17.5 that would give me 36,000. And it gives the three brakes. No I have not ran the electric over hydraulic. I have a three axle air over hydraulic. And no the Michigan dot does not care what ford or gm or dodge says the truck can haul. When I bought my first gooseneck which is a tandem dual I ask a officer. He said do you have a class a. I said yes. He laughed and said you can haul way more weight than you should. And told me then a dual truck and dual trailer with 16s could gross over 42,000 depending on there ply rating. I'm not trying to argue about weight laws. I've been there done that. I want to know if anyone out there knows a wide frame 3 axle heavy ply singles are stable like a dual. Not trying to start something here lol

He said he's got 22k on the deck and trailer still is keeping the arch 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/907DD3CE-AB16-4CDA-AF35-D381D546EDE5.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616120053)
 

Joe.. I have 3 tag trailers, a triaxle eager beaver single and an 8 wheeler with inners and outers sorta like econoline multimax.  Those are on dexter 14.5 open hole wheels.  I also have an interstate 18DT with dual tandem 235/85/16s on 10k dexters. All are about the same length and rating, pintle, electric brakes, beavertail and ramps.. Between 96 and 102 wide.

The interstate is the heaviest by far and goes around a bend the smoothest.  The triaxle has the best brakes but takes a lot of throttle to jackknife into a hole loaded.. I mean put it in low range and it sounds like a ship hull groaning against a dock to shove the thing.. Just tons of angry metal sound and tire scrub.  It also has the least up and down hitch rocking because the axle spread is so supportive.  The tail never grounds out either.  But its got 2 less tires to carry the load and theyre gonna scrub much harder than any other so youre wise in wanting very high ply tires with minimal sidewall height.  And always max inflation or the 17.5s will peel off in a jacknife when getting low.  Sizes ending in .5 have no safety bead.  


While the brakes are better on my triaxle, theres more of em to maintain.  My 8 wheeler is even worse... Its got EIGHT backing plates and i did them all but the braking honestly isnt any better than the triaxle.  Theres always one or two drums out of round that are backed off to not skid. 


I wouldnt hesitate about another triaxle and wouldnt bother with another multimax style.  The interstate is my favorite though.  It is all around the cheapest to maintain and heaviest built with parts still available from interstate.. but at 6k empty its too much tare weight for anyone without an A license. 


Youre correct to obey the DOT and not the manufacter or the internet.  They wont bail you out when DOT writes you up.  The bridge formula in your state will dictate what you can pull, and every axle's placement is considered, on the trailer and power unit.  Its to spread the load across more ground.  The longer your truck WB the more you can pull as well. 

I have both a dual tandem and a three axle single wheel both are pintle hitch. The dual tandem has 20,000 pound axles with electric brakes. Its a heavy trailer. I haul a Cat 941B track loader on it. The triple has three 7,000 pound axles. They both seem stable going down the highway. Have a friend that has done hot shot work for well over twenty years and he went back to three axle singles years ago. He says cost per mile is less on the three axle. He runs electric over hyd on his trailers. Both of my trailers were used when I bought them so I didn't have a choice on how many axles. Both were good deals and work well for what I do with them. 

I do think the tri axle with good single tires would be the best if not needed to turn 90s all the time. I don't think I do that often. I also like what mike said and less forward backward rocking motion. I never thought of stability that way. Prolly make you pickup ride much nicer. 

Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 18, 2021, 10:14:38 PM
He said he's got 22k on the deck and trailer still is keeping the arch  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/907DD3CE-AB16-4CDA-AF35-D381D546EDE5.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616120053)
 

Ive never seen an arched gooseneck, ever. 

I guess you haven't seen a Diamond C goosenecks 😂

The hotshot guys that own them are talking about it once in awhile. Maybe there smoking some really good stuff 😂

Mike they are. Arched just like a semi trailer. There not cheap either. And there's a 2019 for sale here with small rust color showing 🤷🏼‍♂️

Quote from: mike_belben on March 19, 2021, 03:36:14 PM

Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 18, 2021, 10:14:38 PM
He said he's got 22k on the deck and trailer still is keeping the arch  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/907DD3CE-AB16-4CDA-AF35-D381D546EDE5.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616120053)
 

Ive never seen an arched gooseneck, ever.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/5D8F29D8-3805-401A-B32B-8EA8B3247128.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616185971)
 With over 40k on the deck not so much 😂. The older Diamond C trailers had the straight I beam and all the newer ones have the arch

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on March 17, 2021, 12:58:24 PM
That's exactly what I want but in Michigan that trailer can gross 39,000 and 39,000 also with singles. Providing the tires will hold the weight. If I ran 17.5 that would give me 36,000. And it gives the three brakes. No I have not ran the electric over hydraulic. I have a three axle air over hydraulic. And no the Michigan dot does not care what ford or gm or dodge says the truck can haul. When I bought my first gooseneck which is a tandem dual I ask a officer. He said do you have a class a. I said yes. He laughed and said you can haul way more weight than you should. And told me then a dual truck and dual trailer with 16s could gross over 42,000 depending on there ply rating. I'm not trying to argue about weight laws. I've been there done that. I want to know if anyone out there knows a wide frame 3 axle heavy ply singles are stable like a dual. Not trying to start something here lol

The guys that have the super single trailers say they are absolutely stable and that's coming from a guy that has both tandem dually and a super single deck over Gooseneck. This DOT stuff gets crazy different in different states from what different guys say 😂

 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/E8383011-F3A7-4A9B-9854-B791A8DA29F4.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616191004)
 DC the first to put the arch and maybe the only to put it in their trailers and back in the Fleetneck days they where one if not the first to put the torque tube in their trailers 

Walnut are u affiliated with them by any chance 😂

Quote from: mike_belben on March 19, 2021, 07:44:09 AM
Joe.. I have 3 tag trailers, a triaxle eager beaver single and an 8 wheeler with inners and outers sorta like econoline multimax.  Those are on dexter 14.5 open hole wheels.  I also have an interstate 18DT with dual tandem 235/85/16s on 10k dexters. All are about the same length and rating, pintle, electric brakes, beavertail and ramps.. Between 96 and 102 wide.

The interstate is the heaviest by far and goes around a bend the smoothest.  The triaxle has the best brakes but takes a lot of throttle to jackknife into a hole loaded.. I mean put it in low range and it sounds like a ship hull groaning against a dock to shove the thing.. Just tons of angry metal sound and tire scrub.  It also has the least up and down hitch rocking because the axle spread is so supportive.  The tail never grounds out either.  But its got 2 less tires to carry the load and theyre gonna scrub much harder than any other so youre wise in wanting very high ply tires with minimal sidewall height.  And always max inflation or the 17.5s will peel off in a jacknife when getting low.  Sizes ending in .5 have no safety bead.  


While the brakes are better on my triaxle, theres more of em to maintain.  My 8 wheeler is even worse... Its got EIGHT backing plates and i did them all but the braking honestly isnt any better than the triaxle.  Theres always one or two drums out of round that are backed off to not skid.


I wouldnt hesitate about another triaxle and wouldnt bother with another multimax style.  The interstate is my favorite though.  It is all around the cheapest to maintain and heaviest built with parts still available from interstate.. but at 6k empty its too much tare weight for anyone without an A license.


Youre correct to obey the DOT and not the manufacter or the internet.  They wont bail you out when DOT writes you up.  The bridge formula in your state will dictate what you can pull, and every axle's placement is considered, on the trailer and power unit.  Its to spread the load across more ground.  The longer your truck WB the more you can pull as well.

Michigan's a axle state. They figure axles load causes more damage than gross weight. 164,000,11 axle, one tandem three 9 foot spreads. And guys still complain lol other states are running half that for the same pay! I 🤔 

Yeah i want no part of a michigan rig.. Ive saw a few crazy canuckish things out on the big road. None of that will ever make the turn into my yard.


No, ive never seen a diamond C and im still waiting to see a pic of an empty one that has a visible arch.  

Are they fabricating curved framerails from plate and strips for flanges or are they stressing standard mill shapes to create the arch?


Regarding stability, a tri axle single tire rig has the main framerails quite a lot wider apart and thus doesnt need the mountainous stack of leafs to counteract body roll from a disadvantaged inboard position like tandem duals do.  I also have a 30ft goose on torflex.  Honestly ive never felt unstable with any of them.. When you get too heavy its the truck that starts feeling scary.  A good press into the brake pedal and you see the back fender get into your mirror and have to countersteer.  At 42k gross my single axle 2ton truck gets shoved around like that. 



I hauled one load of stone on a steel closed tandem 48 behind a daycab tractor that ended up having a cracked neck and it was screwy..  Thats probably the fishiest thing i can remember due to trailer issues.  A 13'4" high stack of 5x10 concrete mesh panels topped all of my former sketchy.  That one was like a rowboat in the shorebreak.  Palletized bag mulch is right there with it.
 

I just watched a YouTube video of a guy that bought a new one. You could see the arch for sure. There supposed to be engineered frames. Whatever that means. It makes them lighter with the same payload also. Steel where it needs to be and not where it don't i guess. But from what I've seen. 20-40 grand vs 12-18 grand for others. 

Then anything over 25,900 gvwr trailer  is FET tax of 12% of the total price of the trailer.  The dealer actually told me the 212 Gooseneck that's 25,900 gvwr  the farmers love because it's de rated and can actually haul more but they don't care because most are usually hauling more anyway 

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on March 19, 2021, 06:17:10 PM
Walnut are u affiliated with them by any chance 😂

😂😂 I seen that and lost it. Still laughing. Just excited to get the trailer 😂

 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/1D81FA98-8DDF-4FAA-A684-53A6DEC7C2CC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616207115)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/915C9A86-12CE-40B2-AA27-16A8830CC9B8.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616207116)
 

Those previous pictures of the arch are two different trailers.  How about this for a enclosed trailer. All 53'
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/1167D78F-5717-4D4E-962E-48BCB08E418A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616207410)
 

yeah i can see it in that first one.  the new truck gvwr is pushing small trailers into new territories.  I'm a bit concerned that a 2-5/16 ball is up to some of these loads.  people think suicide coils are bad when turned loose, but there'd be nothing left of the occupants if a trailer neck came into the cab. 


that enclosed better have tail rollers underneath.  not many people can manage that low of a tail and that much tail swing.  

3″ BALL 40,000 LB ADJUSTABLE COUPLER
This innovative coupler is included standard on our 40K GVWR UPGRADE PACKAGE (https://www.diamondc.com/gvwr-package-upgrades/) on gooseneck models FMAX312 (https://www.diamondc.com/trailers/gooseneck/fmax312/) and FMAX216 (https://www.diamondc.com/trailers/gooseneck/fmax216/). This unique U.S. Patent Pending coupler is the first of its kind and a Diamond C original – a heavy duty, high strength 40K coupler with an easy to use dual vertical adjustment. We call it the "Telescoupler".

I have pulled some 40,000 lb loads with my F350 and will say just because you can doesn't mean you should. I have been caught in some unexpected stop or even slow down situations on down grades that could easily have been fatal except for some skill and a little bit of luck. 
Semi's rely on engine brakes for much of their braking on long downgrades because drum or disc brakes will fade if used too much. Even on a downhill run when you find yourself on a short ramp leading up to a stop sign you can smoke your brakes and your tires very easily. 

Just because you can pull it doesn't mean you can stop it. 

My 2017 Ford has exhaust and transmission/engine braking.  It's amazing what that thing will do.  I can go down a very steep grade with my 5th wheel in tow and not have to brake at all.  Granted its not 40,000 lbs, but it still will provide a lot of extra braking over brakes alone.  It's amazing how far they have come with pickup trucks.  My 2002 was ok, but not much better than downshifting.  My 2008 was great and now my 2017 is amazing.  Much safer to tow heavy loads now than 20 years ago.

Quote from: firefighter ontheside on March 20, 2021, 08:38:55 AM
My 2017 Ford has exhaust and transmission/engine braking.  It's amazing what that thing will do.  I can go down a very steep grade with my 5th wheel in tow and not have to brake at all.  Granted its not 40,000 lbs, but it still will provide a lot of extra braking over brakes alone.  It's amazing how far they have come with pickup trucks.  My 2002 was ok, but not much better than downshifting.  My 2008 was great and now my 2017 is amazing.  Much safer to tow heavy loads now than 20 years ago.

I don't think Gary realizes most newer heavy duty Diesel trucks have a exhaust brake

Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 20, 2021, 04:17:07 PM

I don't think Gary realizes most newer heavy duty Diesel trucks have a exhaust brake

I am aware of the exhaust brake on newer pickups though I've not used one so far. I do know from my semi driving time that even with an engine brake it takes a great deal of skill to avoid braking failure in many situations. Even with an eighteen wheeler and well adjusted air brakes it's no fun being pushed by 80 to 100,000 lbs. of tractor and trailer when you find yourself in the wrong gear.
There is simply not enough tires on the ground nor braking axles on a pickup to stop those 40,000 lb loads. 

Im with gary.  Blow a steer at 70mph on a f450 @50k gross or more and you are gonna need clean drawers or a medivac or a hearse.  Itll alter your perspective on what can vs should. 


I blew a soft hose on the front driver side of my 12v dually pulling a car trailer with a jetta on it.  The wheel came right out of my hand and i went into on coming traffic while approaching a row of cars stopped at a red light.  I was only able to stop by grinding the trailer sidewalls into a tall curb because brakes were 100% gone. 


Air brakes are fail safe.  Juice brakes are fail death. It matters. 

And change out your soft lines every ten years or when you get a new old truck just because!  My brain didnt remember the ebrake pedal until it was over. 

Quote from: Gary_C on March 20, 2021, 04:57:38 PM

Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 20, 2021, 04:17:07 PM

I don't think Gary realizes most newer heavy duty Diesel trucks have a exhaust brake

I am aware of the exhaust brake on newer pickups though I've not used one so far. I do know from my semi driving time that even with an engine brake it takes a great deal of skill to avoid braking failure in many situations. Even with an eighteen wheeler and well adjusted air brakes it's no fun being pushed by 80 to 100,000 lbs. of tractor and trailer when you find yourself in the wrong gear.
There is simply not enough tires on the ground nor braking axles on a pickup to stop those 40,000 lb loads.

That's why most of the guys that are buying and using the trailers are upgrading to hydraulic disc brakes. Excellent stopping power

Hydraulic disc's on a GN trailer are nothing like the big rig brakes. They are light years better than electric drums but nothing compared to a set of big rig drums.

As Mike said any failure with juice brakes is toying with death. I blew a 2 week old Motorcraft brand brake line while grossing 25k ish and even with a manual and downshifting thru the gears it was a scary ordeal. Had there been an actual emergency or panic stop things would have been ugly.

And I've been thinking on these hydraulic disc brakes. Ok they have more power and benefits over electric. I see that. But why disc? That show has way less surface area! I'm I right. My 15k axles are electric but have 5x12 1/4 shoes. How big are those disc? 

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on March 20, 2021, 10:35:09 PM
And I've been thinking on these hydraulic disc brakes. Ok they have more power and benefits over electric. I see that. But why disc? That show has way less surface area! I'm I right. My 15k axles are electric but have 5x12 1/4 shoes. How big are those disc?

If you ask any of these hotshot guys that run day in and day out everyone will tell you they are the only way to go. Expensive up front yes. There was a guy just talking hauling heavy all the time that about 25 to 30k better changes the disc pads 

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on March 20, 2021, 10:35:09 PM
 But why disc? That show has way less surface area! I'm I right. My 15k axles are electric but have 5x12 1/4 shoes. How big are those disc?

Disc brakes are all about heat dissipation. You only contact the rotor with the pads on a fraction of the rotor and that allows the rotor to cool a bit and prevents the temperature of the pads from rising as much as when you have drum brakes that contact the drum most of the way around. Plus on a drum brake system you contain the heat inside the drum.

Friction braking is all about generating heat and then dissipating it before it ruins something.

LIGHTER – STRONGER – ENGINEERED TO DELIVER
Diamond C is forging a new era in trailer design with our Engineered Beam Technology. We design, engineer, and optimize our own U.S. Patent Protected I-Beams to fit each model. Our Engineered Beam GOOSENECK (https://www.diamondc.com/trailers/gooseneck/) trailers are stronger yet lighter, featuring the best strength-to-weight ratios of any steel frame gooseneck on the road. We have also recently brought this technology to select DUMP (https://www.diamondc.com/trailers/dump/) and EQUIPMENT (https://www.diamondc.com/trailers/equipment/) trailer models.


BUT FIRST, A LITTLE HISTORY...
The year was 2015, and we had been building gooseneck trailers just like the rest of the industry for the past 30 years. We purchased standard I-Beams and sliced and diced them and added reinforcement to make strong trailers out of them. While we had always been proud of our gooseneck trailers, we came to a place of unrest. We knew that there had to be a better way.
We started studying the strength dynamics of I-Beams and quickly turned to flat-bed semi-trailers for inspiration. For decades the semi-trailer manufacturers have been building their own I-Beams, custom to each trailer configuration. They realized long ago that standard beams were not the best solution for the strongest, lightest trailer frames. They needed taller beams considering the span of the frames without the excess weight that comes with taller standard beams.
The same principles clearly applied to gooseneck trailer framing so we set out to design, engineer, and build our own I-beams.
After nearly three years of research and development, the Fleetneck Engineered Beam product line was the result. We proudly debuted the brand new Engineered Beam goosenecks at the 2017 NATDA Trade Show and took the flatbed gooseneck trailer world by surprise. In 2019 we were awarded a U.S. Patent for our efforts.
We now have an almost infinite control over the shape of the beams. We're able to optimize the performance of the steel by putting it to work where we need it most. No dead weight. No added reinforcements needed. We're able to build contours into the beams that optimize the total design and functionality, from dovetails to deck-height. Our beams are the tallest and strongest in gooseneck trailers, with the best strength-to-weight ratios on the road.

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Walnut; why isn't this info in an advertisement slot like all the other commercial sellers on the Forum?
What the heck is this ? !

Quote from: Andries on March 21, 2021, 04:41:47 AM
Walnut; why isn't this info in an advertisement slot like all the other commercial sellers on the Forum?
What the heck is this ? !

I'm not a seller!!! Somebody was wondering what a engineered beam was so I posted a little info to share. What's your problem?

You cut and paste from an advertisement, then it's an advertisement, not an explanation.
If it's " not selling !!! " point the person you're trying to 'educate' to Wikipedia.

Quote from: Andries on March 21, 2021, 05:43:49 AM
You cut and paste from an advertisement, then it's an advertisement, not an explanation.
If it's " not selling !!! " point the person you're trying to 'educate' to Wikipedia.

Worry about yourself buddy your not my daddy 😂

Even though I'm not a seller and I'm not going to argue. I did just donate to the Forestry Forum by hitting the donate button under all of the great sponsors that I have gave business to. I encourage others to do the same 

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on March 19, 2021, 11:00:15 AM
I do think the tri axle with good single tires would be the best if not needed to turn 90s all the time. I don't think I do that often. I also like what mike said and less forward backward rocking motion. I never thought of stability that way. Prolly make you pickup ride much nicer.

Firewoodjoe I was thinking of you when I was reading this. As you can see it goes back and fourth on the Super Singles 😂
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/15DA8EC6-9781-4583-B27D-F18CD7DA4FC0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616400041)
 

@Walnut Beast (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=49695) per the above chat, can't one get 17.5 on a dually and why is the 17.5 preferred by some?

Its just a much tougher, stiffer tire casing than a 16" standard ply.  The 17.5 has more plies, higher psi rating, higher weight capacity.  Theres no point in 15k axles if 16" rubber limits them to 11k on each at the scalehouse.  A 17.5 can resist peeling off sideways a lot better when jackknifing too. The 16s tread will be walking out from under the rim on hot sticky asphalt in a sharp turn. 

Years ago I bought a 40 foot three axle had 8,000 pound axles ground load stock trailer that had sixteen inch tires and the fenders were all tore up and the guy was selling it because he couldn't keep tires on it and cracked a lot of wheel turning short. He had ordered new one with dual's on it. I put new fenders on the trailer and switch it over to 17.5 tires. I bought the best wheels and tires I could find at the time and never had any tire problems with that trailer. I did always carry a spare tire and wheel as back then there weren't a lot of places on the road that carried them. Now days I see them all the time. 

Quote from: Sedgehammer on March 22, 2021, 08:21:05 AM
@Walnut Beast (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=49695) per the above chat, can't one get 17.5 on a dually and why is the 17.5 preferred by some?

Good question. Mike explained it pretty good. You can get the 17.5 s on the dually and it's usually a option

I've done a fair bit of pulling over the decades with pickups and semis. Both single triples and tandem duals. I'm not claiming to be the end all, but there ain't no way in heck I'm tripling it vs tandem duals. Ain't no darn way on earth. 

I've never been stuck on the side of the road with duals. Never. Ever. Not even twice or 3 times. That's all I'll say about that 

I haul a lot of loads with my triple axle GN and have yet to be left on the side of the road either....?

Just yesterday rescued by buddy when the inner tire on his dual blew and the shrapnel destroyed the outer 100 feet down the road.

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on March 22, 2021, 07:22:00 PM
I haul a lot of loads with my triple axle GN and have yet to be left on the side of the road either....?

Just yesterday rescued by buddy when the inner tire on his dual blew and the shrapnel destroyed the outer 100 feet down the road.

That's funny, but not funny. Never had that happen, but I could see it. Just shows ya that a triple wood be in that same spot with just the first one going out. 

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on March 22, 2021, 07:22:00 PM
I haul a lot of loads with my triple axle GN and have yet to be left on the side of the road either....?

Just yesterday rescued by buddy when the inner tire on his dual blew and the shrapnel destroyed the outer 100 feet down the road.

Is your gooseneck triple singles or dually. If it's singles are they 16 or 17.5 s 

If I get a new trailer it will be a wide track (frame and suspension) and 17.5s with 12k or 15k axles. If the singles are the same width as the dual frames and suspension, then I'll tear my old trailer down and rebuild it. It has 15k dual tandems. But it's to short and I hate the dove tail. Some day I'll go down state. Two dealers sell pj diamond c load trailer big tex and a few cheaperer names. I can look at them all in one trip. 

Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 21, 2021, 06:53:03 AM

Quote from: Andries on March 21, 2021, 05:43:49 AM
You cut and paste from an advertisement, then it's an advertisement, not an explanation.
If it's " not selling !!! " point the person you're trying to 'educate' to Wikipedia.

Worry about yourself buddy your not my daddy

Andries is absolutely totally correct and I am one more little comment  from banning you for those comments to another member who was truly looking out for the forum and its paying sponsors.  That was a cut and paste ad. Period.
End of discussion. Your donation does not make this alright and I can gladly return it.

It was off of the company information site and I wasn't aware that was considered sales sales stuff. I have spent money with sponsors and donated to the Fourm more than once. Didn't mean anything by it. If you want to kick me off that's fine

My issue is not about the post. Not why I'm here. it is how you addressed your fellow member after he tried to give a heads up that thing wasn't kosher. I don't want to boot anybody. I never do, but sometimes people want to push it after  an admin intervention. Anybody that gets kicked off of this website had it coming.

Now ya know. Let it go is my recommendation. I can guarantee the only one that would be carrying this around would be you.

Quote from: Sedgehammer on March 23, 2021, 12:21:51 AM

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on March 22, 2021, 07:22:00 PM
I haul a lot of loads with my triple axle GN and have yet to be left on the side of the road either....?

Just yesterday rescued by buddy when the inner tire on his dual blew and the shrapnel destroyed the outer 100 feet down the road.

That's funny, but not funny. Never had that happen, but I could see it. Just shows ya that a triple wood be in that same spot with just the first one going out.

I carry one spare tire, so one flat no biggy. And if not loaded heavy a chain and binder or ratchet strap, lift the axle up and limp home.
Triple 16" tires. 

Quote from: Jeff on March 23, 2021, 06:52:50 PM
My issue is not about the post. Not why I'm here. it is how you addressed your fellow member after he tried to give a heads up that thing wasn't kosher. I don't want to boot anybody. I never do, but sometimes people want to push it after  an admin intervention. Anybody that gets kicked off of this website had it coming.

Now ya know. Let it go is my recommendation. I can guarantee the only one that would be carrying this around would be you.

Sounds good. My apologies 

If your looking at getting a trailer of any make you better make the move. DC trailers went up 17% today in addition to the 6 % that was at the first of the year

Everything's going higher, except for the pay rate for people 😡

I just read through this thread.  I never found anywhere that Walnut Beast said what he would be using to tow his trailer?  I'm wondering if the trailer is properly sized for the tow vehicle?

I was looking for this because I recently bought a new truck for towing.  I had to educate myself on how to determine how much a given tow vehicle can safely pull.  Safely being the key word.  I found that there is a lot of confusion out there on this subject.  The vehicle dealers and manufacturers don't do the public any favors as far as education either.  Each seems to want to brag about being able to tow more than the next competitor.  Any high towing number they show in the commercials or ads seem to be stripped down vehicles, stripped down to maximize how much they can pull, and consequently how much they can brag.  But these are not typical trucks, as who wants a truck with none of the amenities. 

The short version of the story I learned is, GVWR numbers are not the only factor to look at.  They can be misleading.  Payload rating often overrides, or reduces the actual amount you can safely tow.  I say safely from the standpoint of not exceeding the these ratings of payload and GVWR.  I've read that if you are towing over these ratings and get in an accident, you can get in a lot more trouble legally/financially because you are overloaded.

I was looking at Ford trucks.  The payload rating is on a sticker on each truck.  This payload number varies from one truck to another based on what options are on the truck.  The more options, the more weight, which subtracts from the payload rating.  The factory has weights for all these options, and they compute the payload rating accordingly.  Additionally, you must subtract driver and passenger weight, hitch weight, any cargo in the truck, fuel, oil, coolant, all fluids etc. from the payload rating on the sticker on the truck.  Once you have that final payload number you can divide by .2 for a goosneck trailer, and that will give you the total loaded trailer weight you can pull(combined weight of trailer and load).  This could be more or less than the Trailer GVWR.  Of course you cannot exceed the trailer GVWR, but your safe loaded trailer weight my be less than the trailers GVWR because of payload consideration.  

I was originally looking at F250's, but was surprised that the payloads were less than expected.  They could safely tow less than expected.  Talking to multiple people at multiple dealerships showed me that most sales people there don't understand towing numbers.  I had become the educated one.  I ended up buying an F350 dually.  Ford has a towing guide to help with certain towing numbers for Trucks.  One thing became clear, to get the towing numbers I wanted, I need to stick with numerically higher rear end gear ratio, and smaller diameter tires.  I also realized that all these guys with big diesel trucks that put bigger aftermarket wheels and tires on their trucks, just seriously reduced their pulling capacity.

Of course I'm not trying do an in depth discussion here, and I don't mean to alter the course of the thread.  I'm just surprised about how many diesel truck owners I've talked to that don't understand how much they can safely tow.  While a truck may be physically capable of pulling much more weight, the question is what can you safely pull?

And, don't forget, you have to be able to stop the things also. I'd rather to stop it as opposed to pull it. Just because I can pull something, doesn't mean I can stop something.

I learned that from dad when I was about 18. I can only remember and never hear him say it again.

Smart move on the dually. My tow vehicle is HO Cummins 3500 dually. My trailer that's at the dealer now is 25,900 GVWR it's actually a 30k trailer derated  so no FET tax. Guys pulling heavy loads all the time are using 4500 and 5500 class trucks and benefit in GVWR, braking and stability

 
Pulled smooth as silk 300+ miles home. Now some custom fabrication on the deck on neck, flood lights and some other stuff (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/2E627FD3-4FFE-4D0C-AE0E-4B2E01C63F2E.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1623120360)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/E7CCE1B0-F599-4E80-A34F-07CF31FCF0F6.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1623120360)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/BAA3FCA4-6F15-41F2-A4CA-9B907FE0A7A8.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1623120365)
 

Crazy times we are in for sure !! These trailers have had three price increases since the first of the year that totals 35%. I was lucky enough to get the price locked in before the first of the year before everything went absolutely crazy 

 the rulers print money and the little guy pays the price.  

Missed the picture of it coming home. Looks good!

Trailer prices are going crazy. People are still on a year wait list unless a dealer has a slot. From a 35k retail trailer to 55k retail. A 20k price increase in a year! Some dealers are staying close to retail to 5k off

the haves and have nots are gonna start having emnity if this keeps up. 

Anybody have a triple axle 30k gooseneck? How do you like it ? Movin  on up to a 40k trailer. 26k machine on a 30k trailer isn't going to cut it at least legally 

Well the guys that have them really like them but a little harder on the tires. After some messages back and forth with one of the owners of Diamond C on his opinion he said he thought the 216 tandem 40k trailer would be a better way to go as it weighs a little less and gives a little extra payload. That was a opinion of another guy hauling a 26 k machine around  on a 216 just fine but he said he also had the 312 pintle on order for the dump truck 

The 312 and 216 come standard with the adjustable Telescoupler with 3" ball hitch. Here is a picture of it and a 312
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/EFE01D15-DED0-47AD-9B22-808DA4152052.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1651978113)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/324F45B8-4D4D-4EB2-B9B6-ACD703D3C549.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1651978113)
 

When I get up in that 26,000 pound range I get the lowboy with air breaks and the semi hooked to the front of it. My old Cat track loader is in that range and I like the air brakes stopping it. I do have pintle hitch trailer with twenty thousand pound axles with electric brakes but I like the old lowboy with air breaks better. Good luck with the new trailer purchase. 

Lots of guys hauling 26k and more day in and day out with pickup and are extremely happy and several also have semi outfits that are the hotshot guys. No complaints with disc brake stopping power. That's why they are making them and the demand is there. 3 to 4 month out on a new one. No desire for the semi unless it's stretched and converted to flatbed with beaver tail. They are slick. 

Quote from: hedgerow on May 08, 2022, 12:58:53 PM
When I get up in that 26,000 pound range I get the lowboy with air breaks and the semi hooked to the front of it. My old Cat track loader is in that range and I like the air brakes stopping it. I do have pintle hitch trailer with twenty thousand pound axles with electric brakes but I like the old lowboy with air breaks better. Good luck with the new trailer purchase.

That's probably the smartest move when I just priced a 40k gooseneck 35' with 60" spread at 54k and November dealer delivery. Was like 6-8k off list now it's 1k for everyone. Crazy!!

The guy that came to plck the pt 300 said he paid 60k for truck and trailers during the pandemic. Granted he bought the truck from his neighbor so a little better deal. The trail king trailer was sandblasted and painted 
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Walnut Beast  For our little operation it always made since to have a lowboy as we have semi tractors around to haul grain. When I had cattle I wore out a one ton pickup hauling cattle. Then we went with a semi hauling cattle also. I went to a detach probably 15-20 years ago. The equipment had gotten bigger around here so a lot of people we getting three and four axle detach's so some nice two axles came up for sale. I bought a two axle on a state auction that had be used by the game and parks and never pulled in the winter. It did have spoke wheels and tube type tires. I switched it to tubeless and put a pony motor on it to run the hyd. Sold my old lowboy with ramps to another farmer. He still has it today. 

I'm trying to find a happy medium of what I can pull with my one ton Dodge. A full load on my 14K GN is plenty. I hauled my skidder on it a few times, it is 17K, with a lot of weight on the front it weighs out 15K on the trailer axles. That's a big load. Sure I can get a bigger trailer and haul more, but there comes a point where it is better to go to a heavier duty truck, I think. You start working these 350-400 hp pickups to the edge of their capabilites, life span is going to go way down. There's a reason that a heavy truck engine putting out that much horsepower is way bigger. I think a C13 Cat is usually around 400 hp, an M11 cummins 300-350. These pickup engines wouldn't make it long if you swapped one into a class 6-8 truck, replacing an engine of the same horsepower.

Another thing you'll see, when an engine like the B5.9 or ISB 6.7 Cummins is used anywhere other than pickups, it is detuned about 30-40% so it had longevity. Sure they can make that much horsepower and hold up ok when it is being driven by a dumb kid just out spinning their tires, but when you hook a for real load up behind them and work them day in and day out it's a different story.

You guys are exactly right. I'm going to start looking to go that direction for the 26k mulcher. Then it opens it up if I need to haul the 35k machine. The neighbor friend that has done excavation all his life has this Hyster trailer that I might see if he wants to sell cheap. Then I could fix it up or just get one ready to go. Barbender I'll sell you my Diamond C. It retails on their build site now for 48k. You good for 40k 😂
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/D4F5676C-8EE9-4042-8FC0-5AC9E069DC5C.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1652379394)
 
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Hoo-whee! I'll see what I can come up with😁