I need a little advice on what Tree Wedges i need, having just delt with small trees i have not used wedges, and a few time even small trees can be very dangerous when your not in control as to where they are going to fall.
There are many sizes and angles of wedges, then i see them being stacked on top of each other.
You watch the videos and see them being used, but i have no idea what type and size they really are.
Don't overthink this...
Just buy some wedges of various sizes. Most are the same pitch, you're only buying various widths. You can never anticipate all what you may need, so just get an assortment.
Quote from: snobdds on November 23, 2020, 10:45:04 AM
Don't overthink this...
Just buy some wedges of various sizes. Most are the same pitch, you're only buying various widths. You can never anticipate all what you may need, so just get an assortment.
Cold Creek Loggers 3 5.5 inch and 3 8 inch $29
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Found these at Amazon what do you think about them?
i have bought stihl, and some from cheap sources. I have 8 or 10. I have some at the mill in case a nail or something stops a blade and I have to back it out. can make your own with some dense hardwood. they should work. occasionally you may want to stack two. not sure about the spikes. I have both orange and yellow.
8" and 10" plastic are the most popular here, keep extras handy because you will break or lose them. Bright colours also help. Forget the smooth ones or dimple them with the wife's iron, otherwise they will spit out.
Depends what you learned on. Generally you can stack double taper wedges but not triple taper wedges.
There are traditional wedges and 'gimmick' wedges. I use traditional wedges like Double Taper and K&H. Never had any trouble with those brands being smooth and splitting out. In fact, as they get old, nicked and worn....you can take a grinder and reshape them for more wear & tear. Just don't leave the grinder in one spot while grinding.
You have to size the wedge length for the trees you're cutting. It doesn't work to drive an 8" or 10" wedge into a tree if it hits the hinge wood before it's useful....should never hit the hinge wood, so size your wedges for the diameter trees you cut.
Some people like textured wedges, I like smooth for the most part but the K&H I use have some texture.....matter of preference there. But then you get into 'gimmick' wedges with bumps and rifling etc. Madsen's sells a gimmick wedge called Black Bear Rifled faller's wedges. They look OK....even interesting.
Madsen's has a pretty good explanation of degrees of lift and why..........
Kevin
If you need to change a trees mind, but not bad enough to need to pull it, the kind of wedges that have grooves that keep them aligned on top of each other are good to have. I use a 6 lb. sledge hammer when I need to use those. Mechanical advantage goes with the slope of the wedge, so when you stack those, the mechanical advantage goes down, and a 3-1/2 pound axe is a little light.
I dropped a 16" Red Oak a couple of weeks ago, that was leaning towards the lake, using those wedges. It wasn't leaning really badly, but it was obvious which way it wanted to go by looking at it.
edited to add: I've had them so long, that I forgot what they were called. Google found them: Black Bear Rifled. I don't use them often, but am glad I have them.
I've lost track of how many plastic wedges I've ruined by driving them with an axe .My aim is not so good .I use a 4 pound dead blow hammer any more ,big orange thing .Years ago I used steel splitting wedges and have had them fire right back at me. Bonk right in the shin bone ,ouch >:( .Used an 8 pound short handle sledge on them .
For wedges hard to beat the K&H redhead wedges, they take a pounding
I like Stihl wedges, but I don't like their prices. I wish I knew who made them for them.
my dealer is about a 20 minute drive away. In an Amish area community. I knew my parts/mechanic for over 20 years, Sylvan who just passed away. It is his son that turns deer and turkey calls. when I go in, I usually get a few chains and oil for bar and fuel. often pick up a couple wedges. I go about 4 to 6 times a year. I consider the wedges consumable, and have some that look new, and some missing a triangle off the end. I have reshaped a couple on the grinder. John Deer carries stuff now and is 3 miles away, but these other guys consider it their calling. The business is on owner number 3, and they all worked there at one point.
Quote from: doc henderson on November 24, 2020, 08:31:06 AM
my dealer is about a 20 minute drive away. In an Amish area community. I knew my parts/mechanic for over 20 years, Sylvan who just passed away. It is his son that turns deer and turkey calls. when I go in, I usually get a few chains and oil for bar and fuel. often pick up a couple wedges. I go about 4 to 6 times a year. I consider the wedges consumable, and have some that look new, and some missing a triangle off the end. I have reshaped a couple on the grinder. John Deer carries stuff now, but these consider it their calling. The business is on owner number 3, and they all worked there at one point.
Yes, there's no 'foul' in reshaping old wedges with a grinder.....I do it all the time. The wedge usually becomes shorter and I use them for buckin'.
I'll post some pics of a good selection of wedges that I use when it gets light outside.
Kevin
As promised, here is a selection of wedges I've used professionally. You can tell I'm a big Double Taper and K&H fan....lol.
My wedge pouch usually has the four to five wedges pictured in it. The chewed up wedges in the foreground I use buckin'. If I'm running short on wedges, I'll reshape them for smaller timber and buy new wedges.
If I have to stack more than two wedges in strategic places of the back cut, I'll just use a tree jack. You have to figure your time and how long you'll be banging on wedges. I've seen guys spend an hr banging wedges when they could have used a tree jack and been done in less than 15 minutes.
Kevin
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/40584/Wedges_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606232018)(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/40584/Wedges_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606232084)(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/40584/Wedges_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606232131)
Best wedges for driving are the HardHeads with the steel top caps, but they do eventually fatigue and the caps break off. Expensive too.
Husqvarna and Stihl market good wedges. Longer and thinner don't need holding ribs unless you're in frozen timber.
Always put the ribs against the stump. Stacking 2 wedges put ribs on stump and tree butt.
Always carry 3 in a pouch. 1 for holding and opening kerf , the other 2 stacked next to it.
Big heavy tree drive the 3 wedges individually, one in middle of stump other 2 on corners of stump when all 3 driven in and need more lift , stack 2 in middle .
If you need 3 you'll need more backup wedges.
I use this setup for backup plus 200 feet of rope in a bag. The throw line cube folds up flat nicely for storage in the pickup.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20180923_102447~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606241143)
I have a bunch of those wedges Kevin, but don't have much call for the long ones. I got them just cause I got excited seeing a good variety in a real saw shop, and bought an assortment. Most of what you find around here is one brand in /maybe/ two lengths if you're lucky. I mostly use a little barbed 5" for bucking, and a smooth standard 8" for felling, but there's some mix/match as conditions warrant.
Yeah, I wasn't going to get into techniques, but as Willard said....I'll usually put one wedge on either side of the middle and stack wedges in the middle for most lift.
Like I said earlier, I've come across guys with eight or more wedges in a tree and he's been bangin' for 45 minutes or more.......should have used a tree jack.
On problem leaner trees, you can get one of those slingshot things and get a rope up there to take advantage of a winch or snatch block(like in Willard's picture).
Jameson BIGSHOT SLING SHOT THROWLINE LAUNCHER ARBORIST TWO 4' POLES ARBORIST - - Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/JAMESON-BIGSHOT-THROWLINE-LAUNCHER-ARBORIST/dp/B01A8Z4GB0)
(Check out one of our sponsors first for this and other gear).
Kevin
Thanks for the Big Shot pole Info. but for now i think i will pass on gettig one.
For felling smaller trees (say up to 6 inch butt) you could consider a felling lever. Mine has a handle about 30 inches long or so. Works best doing a "reverse" where you do the backcut first, then install the lever, then cut the notch, then lever the tree over. Takes a bit of practice. The felling lever is steel so you don't want to cut into it when you cut the notch. Be sure to drop the notch a good few inches below the backcut to reduce chance of cutting the steel felling lever.
Mountain
Interestingly....Jonsereds had a bladder which ran off of their saws that wedged smaller trees over. Something like Nordfeller(sp). Very rare bit of kit but worked well on smaller trees.
Every now and then I'll see like a 70E with the fitting for one still on the saw.
Kevin
Quote from: Happysawer on November 25, 2020, 08:07:02 AM
Thanks for the Big Shot pole Info. but for now i think i will pass on gettig one.
Wedges will take you there 95% of the time......
Kevin
If it wasn't for my bigshot slingshot I wouldn't be in business.
Great for setting climbing ropes or pull lines.
My best use for it is for setting guy line ropes anchored 90° to lay.
That's where my 4 ft T square comes in gun sighting in the anchor point of the guy rope to where I want the side leaning tree land to lay.
If I can't find an exact 90°degree anchor point I will then make an adjustable one like this.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20180601_095558_resized_1~1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606323508)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20180601_100716_resized_1~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606323671)
No matter how big the tree has of a side lean, that rope will swing that tree no matter what size exactly to my lay.
That tree was leaning heavily over a very expensive piece of equipment that was under that green and blue tarps.
On this job the slingshot really paid off. Two burnt spruce , tallest one 120 feet both leaning over power lines.
Only place I could fell them was towards a brown cabin to the left of the two white ones.
A lady was watching sitting in a chair outside the brown cabin.
She says " that tree is going to hit my cabin !"
I said "Don't worry you can keep sitting right there in that chair, I measured that tree perfectly with that stick laying over there on the ground."
Too bad she ran away. :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20160728_121110-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606330309)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20160728_120651.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606330294)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20160728_123412.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606330295)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20160728_125929.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606330315)
does the seat look wet, or is that just my imagination?... :D :D :D
Quote from: doc henderson on November 25, 2020, 02:09:02 PM
does the seat look wet, or is that just my imagination?... :D :D :D
I think your right Doc.
I'm not sure if that happened before or after the tree felled :D :D
you should set up video of some of the falls, but that might bring bad luck! :)
Quote from: doc henderson on November 25, 2020, 02:47:50 PM
you should set up video of some of the falls, but that might bring bad luck! :)
Yes I've had many customers who stand off to the side with their phones aimed right before I let the tree go. Talk about pressure :D
It used to be I had to join YouTube to post videos. Now I can post on Facebook short videos with no problems, but this here site is not FB
Just cut'r.............and jump. :D
Felling rock maple in the yard with 30" chain bar on a Husqvarna - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j13ZB1LQvfo)
Just added to my wedge collection yesterday
SIL found one on my place while deer hunting, left by loggers who harvested the next to last harvest.
This is the second one we have found over a few years
Price certainly is right for these.
I just buy the ones that Labonville carry. Nothing fancy, just a every day 10 inch wedge, I think. Just picked up a couple about a month ago. I took a chunk out of one all ready.
Stihl used to sell felling levers around here, but I think they are only in Europe and NZ now. I think they are fine for smaller trees under 12", a great big old bruiser would likely need a wedge or a few. ;D Never used anything but the saw myself. Not dealing with huge wood, just thinning small stuff mostly 4-12" on the but and some popple 70 feet tall. On them bad leaners though, I can find a hole most times near the lean or just buck if it lodges. If you leave some wood on the side you want to pull the tree toward on the way down, it'll happen. If I was falling veneer though, wedges for sure. You can't bring a tree sloping 20 degrees in a forest canopy, vertical and fall the other way with wedges. :D Since I'm not in big stuff, never been a tree that the saw never brought down. I'm very good at directional felling myself, but there can sometimes be a nearby limb to hook onto on the way down. ;D I never leave stuff hanging, no no no, nor cut a tree with overhangs on it.
STIHL FELLING LEVER 80CM (https://www.stihlshopchristchurch.co.nz/shop/Product/Forestry+Tools++Accessories/Stihl/STIHL+FELLING+LEVER+80CM.html)
Quote from: SwampDonkey on November 26, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Just cut'r.............and jump. :D
Felling rock maple in the yard with 30" chain bar on a Husqvarna - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j13ZB1LQvfo)
Wow....just wow. That's how people die, regularly. Too bad we don't see a closeup of what he's doing wrong. That's when you think you're 'tougher' than the tree.
Kevin
WOW!! He should of ran!! Well he should learn how to cut a tree down first.
These are people sent out to cut danger trees by the power company. The tricky part is that the road was elevated, and that baby bounced.
I have met many utility arborist crews who do powerline clearing over the years and tree felling is definitely not their specialty. :D
The most felling they may do is tipping over a 10 foot tall trunk after taking it apart from the bucket truck.
Quote from: Real1shepherd on November 26, 2020, 09:50:04 AM. . . . Too bad we don't see a closeup of what he's doing wrong. . . . .
The camera is way far from the base of the tree, but it looked like it barber chaired back a fair bit.
" These are people sent out to cut danger trees by the power company. The tricky part is that the road was elevated, and that baby bounced."I'm not sure it was the elevated road @Swamp Donkey , to me it looks like the opening face might've been way too shallow causing the split upward, then the kickback. That saw guy was close to being out of luck!
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Dangerous dudes cutting danger trees. Makes for good video of what to watch out for . . . :o
Your eyes are better than mine....I can't really make out anything except for the kickback of the butt and the guy standing there like he's God....or stump dumb.
Kevin
He ACTS stump dumb for not moving a bit faster. Stupid stuff like that will get a person killed!
I was thinking of this thread and the above video when I was perusing FB marketplace this morning and saw this fella. His ad was titled "have chainsaw, will travel" with two copies of this photo and two copies of his brand new Mac chainsaw. Now just ponder this photo for a second or two.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/52103/bozo.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606527963)
In case you are not seeing what I see, let me direct your attention to the 'notch' and the direction the tree should have fallen in. The 'backcut' is interesting, as is his 'hinge'. If I was 'guy with a chainsaw and a truck' I don't think I would use this to garner business. Just sayin'
Maybe you guy see something different?
It must be a European hinge... no offense intended to Europeans everywhere, :D
Quote from: doc henderson on November 27, 2020, 09:14:39 PMIt must be a European hinge... no offense intended to Europeans everywhere, :D
Let's see . . Greenhorn is Norwegian and I'm Dutch.
Looks like your post has European bookends. :D :D
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I really like that guy's opening, closing and final drop - let's file him under 'miracle worker'. . . just this one time.
Quote from: Andries on November 27, 2020, 09:24:03 PMlet's file him under 'miracle worker'. . . just this one time.
Yeah, but next time we might file him under something else.... like 'defendant'.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5279.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1541198199)
What kinda wedge did this guy need?? ???
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5278.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1541198318)
Yup, he got it on the ground. ::)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5276.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1541197982)
And I sawed that treasure. You can see the wedge still in the stump in the background and also the smile on the butt. :D
That is "special".
Quote from: Andries on November 26, 2020, 11:13:33 PM
I'm not sure it was the elevated road @Swamp Donkey , to me it looks like the opening face might've been way too shallow causing the split upward, then the kickback. That saw guy was close to being out of luck!
Yes, that was the corner of the tree where it was punky rotten and no strength to the wood, so it appears barbour chaired. Rotten wood separated from sound wood. I would have cut through that before the back cut. It was over 3 feet across the butt. But that road also helped bounce it. So it was two fold. ;)
I found this picture of a job I did a few years back out in cottage country.
Heavy leaner over this cottage with a gas meter on the wall a few feet away.
I had to tension this 3/4" guy rope with my pickup. A second rope on a come along to pull it down.
You begin to appreciate the tools of the trade after doing a few of these jobs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20201202_141225.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606940331)