every where i look seems like everything is back ordered. Anyone ordered anything from woodland mills or anywhere else lately? Im looking for a mill i can pay for and lay hands on it within a couple weeks
look at used at the bottom of the page, sawmill exchange. I have not been in the market, so do not know the turn around. I have a timberking, and am happy with it and the service. call the number at the left and ask for Matt, and tell him Doc Henderson told you to call. why the rush? I looked for 15 years before I bought. good luck.
My guess, right now, is that your best bet is used. Try looking at sawmill exchange. There is a link on the left side of the page if you scroll down a bit.
what size, price, manual or hydraulic? one just sold used in Georgia.
Id probably spend 5-8 on a used mill. I live in northeast ga.
The rush is i looked at my bank statements spending report, and ive spent enough in the last year at home depot and adams to have bought a nice hydraulic mill, and im no where near done building.
for that price it will be manual or used hydraulic. harbor freight has a small manual one. not for everyone, but may suit your needs and price range. not sure on availability.
Consider hiring a portable mill. Even if you are buying logs, you can come out ahead of the box store prices by hiring a mill.
Yea - right now the only two options for a quick sawmill are either used market - and sawmill exchange is an excellent one for that - or go out and steal one - may or may not work out so well for you going that route, especially given how the sawmill market is these days. :D
Normally - well, not normally, but now and then, eh - once in a while - I will show respect for Doc there , OK it must have happened at least once in the past :D - however I would caution you on the HF route. You get what you pay for in the sawmill world and a Chinese knock off will give you Chinese knock off lumber results.
Getting the logs is no problem. I work contract logging and everything that wont make a tree length log gets sold for pulpwood.
Im not really interested in the hf mill for the sheer fact of it taking 3 months to get it home, and im not totally against going over my budget to start a small semi commercial sideline operation
Just for kicks and giggles from people who know more about sawing than i do, what kind of mill would i have to buy to break down 4-5 mbf in a weekend? Me and one other guy, with a live deck setup and a old knuckeboom to load the deck/unload my truck. Also have a 80hp skidsteer with forks, in clear butt cut planted loblolly biggest log being 20 inches.
In that scenario you want a hydraulic mill. In the Woodmizer world that puts you into at least an LT 35HD. I don't know which model in the other mfg would be similar.
Jay,
How do you define "Breaking down" 4-5 mbf? Are you talking about cutting the logs into cants for further resawing later into boards/lumber or what? What kind of wood are we talking about. Softwood is going to be a lot easier and faster to saw than most hardwood.
Also where in NE Ga are you located?
Im talking a breaking down 10-20 inch (on the little end) southern yellow pine from a planted forest. Loblolly, a whole 90k pound load on a kenworth with a pitts 4 bolster. Cut 12, 14, 16s that are not tight grain. The same stuff west fraser/ georgia pacific saw.
Would try and saw 6x6 from the centers, and 2x as much as possible and you and one other guy have to get it sawed and stacked and not be so wore out you wont make it to work Monday.
Would a old frick with a live deck, some sort of turner,a powered outfeed, and maybe a edger handle this?
I live in Toccoa.
So if you are buying plantation logs and sawing framing lumber and what I assume are PT blanks from the pith then you really need to re-think the plan. There is no money in that plan with two guys. Yes, right now RETAIL lumber prices are foolish, but that won't last long given the wholesale price of SYP is back in line with historical pricing. Also realize that retail lumber is dried, graded, and planed - you are trying to compete selling rough sawn, which for some is an attractive selling point, but for the masses who need an inspector to sign off on the addition, or a contractor who does not want to deal with liability issues down the road will become a non-starter.
What is your market? If you are selling to the wholesale world then good luck, customer direct - expect every tire kicker, "lumber inspector", and down right cheapskate to want to paw through your pile on Wednesday evening at 8:00 PM - and Oh - you re stack it right?
Small scale sawmills thrive in the niche world, not trying to compete with the commodity world. Sort of like a guy with a power saw and a JD 440 trying to live on 1st thinning pine - yup his payment is low, but his production will never make the numbers work.
I have no illusions of making a living sawing full time. I do have contacts for selling rough cut for a pallet outfit that supplies kubota, and have been watching the market in my area for selling to the public. While i dont think youd get rich, ive spoke to enough people in the last year to know that it wouldnt be hard to peddle a stack. And i have contacts move sawdust, and shavings if things ever got to that point.
The niche is that im probably selling 10 to 30 thousand feet of good short logs a week as pulpwood because there are no markets in this area to use short logs, let alone anything over 20 inches
Last week i sent several tractor trailer loads to a guy that turned them all into horse bedding. Probably enough to build 3 houses and 2 barns.
But im getting way ahead of myself, at this point i just want to buy some slick logs at pulp price, mill them down and build some junk at my home.
If in a rush to build, have someone else saw and you build. ;) Takes time to saw, stack lumber. That takes time from building. I have it bad. ;D I cut down the trees, saw lumber, stack lumber, clean up slabs, sawdust, than build. Than I have to clean up the mess in the woods. ;D The one that know how to build, ::) say they could build it it in a month compared to my 3 months. ;D
Quote from: jay_d on January 02, 2021, 10:00:29 PM
Id probably spend 5-8 on a used mill. I live in northeast ga.
Quote from: jay_d on January 02, 2021, 11:00:46 PM
Would a old frick with a live deck, some sort of turner,a powered outfeed, and maybe a edger handle this?
I think to be realistic you should add a "1" or a "2" in front of the "5-8" if you are looking for a good used mill that actually works, either hydraulic band mill or usable circle mill.
I did a quick country wide CL search and found several Fricks and Lanes, but they looked pretty rough.
I'm not super close to you but I'm willing to let you and your friend come down and stack 5000 bf load of pine like you are talking about. You can even bring me a load of your logs and we'll get it knocked out. All I'm trying to say is that with the right set up it is do able, but not in the price range you are talking about. Yes you will likely be wore out and not want to go to work Monday. Remember the sawing is the easy part. Like logging cutting the tree down is the easy part, then you have to do everything else to get it to the mill and there is lots of steps in between. I think you have a great idea in trying to maximize the value of your logs. Just underestimating the amount of funds and effort it will take to process a semi load of logs. Definitely do able and you are wise to do some research before jumping in. You are also in one of the best places for that research.
Try FB Market place and Craiglist also.
I am on my 3rd mill. First from Oh on Craigslist, next on Ebay from Mi, and the last from FB only 30 mins away.
Quote from: jay_d on January 02, 2021, 11:00:46 PM
Im talking a breaking down 10-20 inch (on the little end) southern yellow pine from a planted forest. Loblolly, a whole 90k pound load on a kenworth with a pitts 4 bolster. Cut 12, 14, 16s that are not tight grain. The same stuff west fraser/ georgia pacific saw.
Would try and saw 6x6 from the centers, and 2x as much as possible and you and one other guy have to get it sawed and stacked and not be so wore out you wont make it to work Monday.
Would a old frick with a live deck, some sort of turner,a powered outfeed, and maybe a edger handle this?
I live in Toccoa.
Short answer, yes.. however, in your price range I think you're in manual band mill territory.
If you can up your budget and you're looking to saw dimensional lumber, look for a used swing mill or a true dimension mill like a
Mighty Mite or a Mahoe like below, going to cost more but your production would increase exponentially over a manual band
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=112675.0
D
my mill cost 27k new 8 years ago. now they are 42k. I have a middle sized hydraulic TK 2000. it will saw almost as big as the 2500, but not nearly as fast. If you buy used, you may spend 2 months getting it ready to run. you may find one from someone who is upgrading, and selling a well cared for used one, but they will want to get real money out of it. if you find one where "grandpa died and it has now sat in a shed for 15 years", it will take some work. oh yeah, and "the shed has collapsed and you have to dig the mill out of the rubble". If I sold mine today, I would try to get out of it what I paid, since it is well cared for, and the new ones are much more expensive.
There is a little Norwood up here in a barn, always has been. They want 7000.
I'd second/third/fourth the recommendations to hire a guy with a woodmizer/timberking etc. All hydraulic, fastest biggest mill you can find for hire.
Get your logs all staged perfectly as if this were your mill. Scale each and every log. Some sort of log deck for staging, some roller tables for off bearing. Get the sawyer there for 2 days on the week, not weekends and you off bear. Start or finish on Wednesday/hump day so minds and eyes are clear and it is a days work.
See what the production is. See how much dust is there, how many slabs, how many bdft and how many cants. Keep track of all the hours. That's going to give you a best case kind of scenario. Keep track of everything. Fuel, blades, hours, bdft of each product, etc. Then compare the alternative of selling that wood for pulp or shavings and how much time and expense that took. Currently the market has been flooded with new mills...in 2 years there are going to be a lot of used mills for sale (prediction...or a wild guess :D).
Finding logs are the easy part of everything in sawing, next is sawing. Material handling is hard and expensive. Waste is hard and expensive. Selling is hard and not selling is expensive. The retail public can be ...difficult. Read the sawyers thread on here. Lots of guys/girls start sawing and have tested just about every business case there is to test. I'd spend a few weeks just reading FF threads. Cut the TV off and cut off Facebook and twitter and just read FF posts. The posts go back for years and years. It is literally an education on here.
Commodity products like pine dimension lumber is a boom/bust sort of business with big players rarely making anything more than just barely adequate profit. If you go to compete with them than you really need to know how and why.
Lots of us struggle with the same issue you face. What to do with the odd wood that the mills won't buy at prices that are related to the costs of lumber. I don't cut pine unless it is by accidental circumstance (pine growing in a hardwood forest) but I know there must be someone somewhere merchandizing these oversized butt logs in the GA. You are right in the middle of SE pine belt. Here in VA I know of two mills that buy that sort of log plus a few specialist like Southside that is even pickier and only wants really good tight ringed natural forest grown logs.
However, sounds like you got to scratch an itch. So hire a contract sawyer and see how it goes. Then you'll have some lumber and the numbers to understand the business case. Me I'd suggest saving money for a rainy day and finish your building with good quality materials.
Ive hired it out 4 or 5 times. They get 200 a thousand. Ive ran a lt35 several times and have a good handle on what it is.
200 a thousand with a 70k setup new to mill
175 a thousand with a 200k setup to log
Something aint right here
Well there you go. Looking at the numbers. What do they tell you?
200k in old equipment to get paid less than 70k in new equipment. Why log? Mills don't usually own logging because it is not profitable. They just grind a poor logger into poverty...not crushing poverty..just poverty.
If you can get a thousand board feet cut into lumber for $200, that's not a bad price for custom sawing. It's in line with my portable sawing.
I cut 1400 board feet today in 5 hours for $380 including discounted set up fee. That's an average of 250 board feet an hour. Bigger mills may have higher production but my setup was not $70k.
Quote from: jay_d on January 04, 2021, 05:46:49 PM
200 a thousand with a 70k setup new to mill
175 a thousand with a 200k setup to log
Something aint right here
It's not that simple. (or at least its not that simple here, and maybe it is that simple there)
I got a contractor - one of the regular guys we use - he got a near new 45 tonner with a waratah head, he got a D6HII with the winch and grapple, he got a 648 dual arch, he got a wheel loader with log forks, he got all the support equipment to keep it all running.... bought none of it new but all in fair order and it adds up compared to a mill huh?
Now me, I got a saw, and another saw, and another saw, and another saw, and a kiln, and a moulder and a loader and a forklift and alla gear to keep it running.... thats my operating sawmill plant ok. Might cost secondhand about as much as my contractors harvester, might cost new about as much as a new harvestor and a decent wheel loader.... maybe a bit more but not that much.
Of course I've also got 18 acres of industrial land. And sheds - industrial warehousing to the tune of about 50k square feet - because all my junk needs to be out the weather to work. And all weather hardstand to hold a couple thousand tonne of logs. And usually I got 4 or 5 hundred tonne of logs there, and I had to pay a contractor for them on a 7 day account and I might see that money back in 6 months and he dont give me no warranty if the logs are bad.
And a 3 phase hookup at 100 amps a phase. And I need to comply with regulations from three layers of government EPA office. And I got insurance premiums will feed a third world country for a year... and... and...
You can't extrapolate the numbers for purchase cost without figuring in the cost of where you put it.... thats what you aint got right here. The grass ain't quite so green as it looks.
Im not saying mill man is getting rich, but i bet your monthly power bill cant hold a candle to my weekly fuel bill. Kilowatt hours are cheaper than fuel horsepower, no way around that.
You bought that land, do the pins and bushing wear out on that piece of ground? Is it losing value every year or 2k hours?
You talk about a gaurantee on the logs you buy, but when mr scribner or doyle says that load was 3900 and you saw 4600 out of it do you send that supplier another check?
But some how i have got way off topic. All i was trying to figure out was where to buy a manual mill and not have to wait 12 weeks on delivery. So far
Woodmizer :12 weeks out
Timberking : girl at the phone didnt know what 1220 was, sent me to chris. Hasnt called back
Woodland mills left the phone off the hook (canadian new years parties must be awesome)
Hudson dealer claims he can have a warrior at the end of the month (maybe because nobody wants one?)
Gonna try cooks and ez boardwalk tomorrow
Quote from: jay_d on January 04, 2021, 07:54:45 PM
Im not saying mill man is getting rich, but i bet your monthly power bill cant hold a candle to my weekly fuel bill. Kilowatt hours are cheaper than fuel horsepower, no way around that.
You bought that land, do the pins and bushing wear out on that piece of ground? Is it losing value every year or 2k hours?
You talk about a gaurantee on the logs you buy, but when mr scribner or doyle says that load was 3900 and you saw 4600 out of it do you send that supplier another check?
But some how i have got way off topic. All i was trying to figure out was where to buy a manual mill and not have to wait 12 weeks on delivery. So far
Woodmizer :12 weeks out
Timberking : girl at the phone didnt know what 1220 was, sent me to chris. Hasnt called back
Woodland mills left the phone off the hook (canadian new years parties must be awesome)
Hudson dealer claims he can have a warrior at the end of the month (maybe because nobody wants one?)
Gonna try cooks and ez boardwalk tomorrow
Try Sawmill Exchange.
They are a sponsor just to the left.
GAB
ask for Matt at TK. they also sell other wood working product, so the front desk will not know.