I know this may be counterintuitive to most, but I am curious what small rigs people use out there. As someone who does forestry and logging on my own land, sometimes I like to use the smallest thing possible to get the job done, especially in hard to reach areas and places I don't want to do a lot of damage.
I will go first :) My smallest rig (if you exclude an ATV and a log arch, with a portable capstain winch) is a Gehl RT105, with forks that have a custom fabricated grapple arm and a 12K lb electric winch, with a pull behind log arch that I also custom fabricated. I had to use forks with my own custom grapple in order to keep the weight down since the RT105 only has about 1,500 to 2,000 lbs of usable lift (tipping is 3000 lbs). I thought I could make a much beefier log arch at a fraction of the price using steel I already had. It is made of 2" steel square tube that has 1/4" thick walls. I used 1/4" steel plate to gusset the arch, and I put on forklift tires that have a double rim (the tires and hubs are usually the weak points on the commercial arches one can buy). The hitch on the arch is a rotating one so it won't flip me over or bend the tubing if I get in trouble. The grapple arm and winch are removable so I am able to go back to using the forks alone whenever I need to.
I am able to skid one full hardwood tree in about the 20-25" range. I put the butt log in the arch and carry the top logs on the forks. It works pretty well...the arch can carry up to about a 38" tree, but I haven't pushed it past a 10' long 30" red oak before. The best part of this rig is that the width is 48", so I can go anywhere my four wheelers can go to get to the trees (I usually harvest wind blown trees).
Please share what you have/use!
One of these days I will get a video up on my YT channel using this setup once our polar vortex goes back up north...in the meantime here are some pictures.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/61821/rt105smalllogging2j.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613230901)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/61821/rt105smalllogging3j.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613230900)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/61821/rt105smalllogging1j.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613230896)
I'm just using my doorless Tacoma ATM. That and my vehicle mounted 8274 Warn, and up to 3 snatch blocks and chain and straps. Nothing special. BTW, what brand orange winch is that?
I've used my little Gehl 3825 with forks when grabbing trees right beside the driveway. I like that grapple, that is a unique design. So far I've just carried short 10' or under logs on the forks down to the mill with it and loaded onto a trailer anything longer. Without a grapple I've had to go chase down a few :D. I think I'd wipe out that winch in that location in short order though, was there insufficient room to stick it somewhere behind the rack?
The winch is a cheap knockoff, Zesuper. I don't use it much so I was ok with something cheap. I have a portable capstan winch and another hydraulic winch on the bigger skid steer for big stuff.
The winch is removable and plugs into a receiver on the arch when not in use, so it is out of the way. I made the grapple that way to be able to open wide to grab brush piles, it does a good job holding logs too, but it isn't super strong. Have to be more gentle using the small rig :)
The best part of this setup is I can tow it behind my half ton pickup (the main reason for the tiny skidsteer).
@Tacotodd (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=50744) how do you skid logs with that setup? Do you have an arch?
@Don_P yeah, no room behind, it is super tight as it is getting in and out of it :) I found it tricky to load logs with the forks without the grapple, I always seemed to let them roll off too fast and crash into the mill, a big part of reason for building that grapple
Interesting topic and right up my alley. We have a very large acreage thats very rough hilly terrain (Sierra) and difficult to access in many places. I have to drive 40 minuets to get to the gate then once inside the earth roads only take us so far. I need to find a way to haul equipment up there, get further access into the tress, cut the tress and transport them back down the hill to the vehicle and trailer. Our trees are rather small so they are not large growth trees. Id say the larger trees are probably 1 1/2 to 2 feet in diameter and mostly Pine trees.
What kind of equipment is needed for such work
A log arch is your best friend for tough to access areas. You can pull them with just about anything, if you use an ATV get a big one (over 600 cc if possible) and don't get something with a CVT transmission, you will want all the engine braking you can get. Also, the rotating hitch is a must lest you be flipped over when your arch decides to tip. Pine trees are lightweight so you shouldn't have many issues.
Another thing about a log arch is you can use it with a winch to pull logs down from high places, or pull them up from low places...pull the arch with the winch to an area where you can hook up to your tow vehicle and you are good to go. I have a lot of hills and I typically just park skid steer at the bottom of a hillside, winch the arch up to the log I need using a portable winch, then use the portable winch or the one on my skidsteer to pull the log down the hill with the arch.
Hope that helps!
Quote from: driftlessinwi on February 13, 2021, 10:47:14 AM
I know this may be counterintuitive to most, but I am curious what small rigs people use out there. As someone who does forestry and logging on my own land, sometimes I like to use the smallest thing possible to get the job done, especially in hard to reach areas and places I don't want to do a lot of damage.
I will go first :) My smallest rig (if you exclude an ATV and a log arch, with a portable capstain winch) is a Gehl RT105, with forks that have a custom fabricated grapple arm and a 12K lb electric winch, with a pull behind log arch that I also custom fabricated. I had to use forks with my own custom grapple in order to keep the weight down since the RT105 only has about 1,500 to 2,000 lbs of usable lift (tipping is 3000 lbs). I thought I could make a much beefier log arch at a fraction of the price using steel I already had. It is made of 2" steel square tube that has 1/4" thick walls. I used 1/4" steel plate to gusset the arch, and I put on forklift tires that have a double rim (the tires and hubs are usually the weak points on the commercial arches one can buy). The hitch on the arch is a rotating one so it won't flip me over or bend the tubing if I get in trouble. The grapple arm and winch are removable so I am able to go back to using the forks alone whenever I need to.
I am able to skid one full hardwood tree in about the 20-25" range. I put the butt log in the arch and carry the top logs on the forks. It works pretty well...the arch can carry up to about a 38" tree, but I haven't pushed it past a 10' long 30" red oak before. The best part of this rig is that the width is 48", so I can go anywhere my four wheelers can go to get to the trees (I usually harvest wind blown trees).
Please share what you have/use!
One of these days I will get a video up on my YT channel using this setup once our polar vortex goes back up north...in the meantime here are some pictures.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/61821/rt105smalllogging2j.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613230901)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/61821/rt105smalllogging3j.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613230900)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/61821/rt105smalllogging1j.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613230896)
Pretty awesome 👍. You said it best in this first part.
I like to use the smallest thing possible to get the job done, especially in hard to reach areas and places I don't want to do a lot of damage. Same here if I wanted to rip the woods up I could call my friend up and get his big excavator, track loader or dozer over here. Sure big stuff can get stuff done but there is something to be said for low impact. Now if it was in some vast areas serious logging in vast areas like some of the guys do then the low impact stuff would be a little ridiculous
Quote from: driftlessinwi on February 13, 2021, 04:44:25 PM
A log arch is your best friend for tough to access areas. You can pull them with just about anything, if you use an ATV get a big one (over 600 cc if possible) and don't get something with a CVT transmission, you will want all the engine braking you can get. Also, the rotating hitch is a must lest you be flipped over when your arch decides to tip. Pine trees are lightweight so you shouldn't have many issues.
Another thing about a log arch is you can use it with a winch to pull logs down from high places, or pull them up from low places...pull the arch with the winch to an area where you can hook up to your tow vehicle and you are good to go. I have a lot of hills and I typically just park skid steer at the bottom of a hillside, winch the arch up to the log I need using a portable winch, then use the portable winch or the one on my skidsteer to pull the log down the hill with the arch.
Hope that helps!
I'll put my Polaris General 1000 with 99 hp up against any other side by side or atv. In low range it's a animal. Then I could pass you going down the road 70 mph 😂. It's got engine breaking. Your right the transmission type are very good 👍
As long as you have engine braking :) my polaris Ace 570 doesn't and it is a pain going downhill. My Hondas on the other hand have amazing transmissions :) You may run circles around my Pioneer 800, but you may remember how the tortoise and the hare story ends :) jk , but seriously my Hondas are about as bullet proof as you can get from a reliability standpoint.
@driftlessinwi (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=51821) I only skid some firewood from time to time. It's not so much the winch, but the truck. 30" at the butt and 20' long are doable on fair-dry ground. It's just a 99 Taco (Tacoma, hence the name) V-6 4X4 manual transmission 2sp t-case 35" tires. It's a decent tractor :o
It's also got a short bed and toolbox but still allows me to carry 3 saws and stuff. My full floating Dana 60 (narrowed) and Dana 44 are in the works for transplantation. 5.89 gears and Detroit for both. Full hydro steering at that time. The strange part, I've had this truck since brand new and made EVERY payment on it ;) 22yr long build up is how I'm looking at it. It's taken a while just to accumulate the parts for doing something like this.
It's a very good and useful all around off pavement buggy. I've never broken anything so far, but only because I don't want to try to stupidly find its limitations.
Quote from: driftlessinwi on February 13, 2021, 06:19:29 PM
As long as you have engine braking :) my polaris Ace 570 doesn't and it is a pain going downhill. My Hondas on the other hand have amazing transmissions :) You may run circles around my Pioneer 800, but you may remember how the tortoise and the hare story ends :) jk , but seriously my Hondas are about as bullet proof as you can get from a reliability standpoint.
The Pioneer 1000-5 is a awesome machine and I do like that dual transmission. I was going to get that one but when it came down to dealing they wouldn't budge on price. There is a lot of features that are pretty nice on it
Well, i guess this is a pictorial of my lifes work in progress. Im building a little redneck engineer at my industrial homeschool.
i started him at the beginning. How much wood can ya move flat dragging with 7hp and 2wd? Here ya go kiddo. Go find out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/20161129_161831.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594528774)
Then it was how much with a winch, 16hp and a front counterweight?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0810201138a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1597083036)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/20150711_190441~2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1512239765)
What is 4wd worth?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0415181748.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1523849232)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0612181934.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528860176)
How about on a trailer with bratty counterweights?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0524181953-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1527212785)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0131181445-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517457070)
How about a 2wd diesel?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/91AC3909-A2C6-4AC4-BCA8-F06058C59855-94-0000000E0D99C8D3_zps1b7eaf99.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1512239456)
What can the bobcat do?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0402181849.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1522728015)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/20180919_163036.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1537412314)
Lets try a bigger 2wd diesel
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0610201747.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1591845178)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0504201139-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1588971615)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0705201932a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594011813)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0922201639_Film3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1600844595)
Lets try a trailer. Go load it with the bobcat and dont get hurt boy.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0729201505.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1596060818)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0803201211.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1596493867)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0803201742-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1596494550)
Bobcat with trailer?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/1606088327643.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606090412)
Dozer?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0710201453a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594525801)
I think you definitely win on the smallest rig for sure on the first pic Mike
Nice post @mike_belben (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=33722) ! Definitely have me beat for smallest rig! Looks like you guys have a great time, fun way for your kids to grow up. Thanks for sharing!
Well if i could only build them as fast as he's growin up, boy ill tell ya. I cant keep pace. Many more machines to come i hope.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/1606018152324.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1606017837)
Mike, I think you are on to something with that industrial home school.
What is the age limit ?
You might get a few takers from the Forum.
Good to see your son is keeping his Father busy.
Quote from: 47sawdust on February 14, 2021, 07:04:32 AM
What is the age limit ?
For as long as I live and he still shows up to class. I hope the Lord gives us enough time together to build the 8x8, which is our masters project. Weve got a dozen other machines before starting that one. When he graduates, theyre his to earn a living with, but his sister owns the business. Theyve got to work together or buy each other out after i depart.
its been the biggest lotto ticket of my life. I just wish i could find the pause button.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0422202318.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1597083871)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/20170317_180035.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594528648)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0207211657b_Film3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613309887)
Nice pictures of your family!!!!
I use a 40hp tractor with a 3 pt winch. Years ago we had a 1954 NAA Ford and we would bring out wood on a trailer. Slow and lots of work, but only wheel tracks in the woods. Wife has a 30 hp tractor. A few times I have put that in the woods with a trailer behind it. Can't really tell I went through the woods with it.
no power trailer yet? truck rear end drive line and trans then power shaft to the pto. there used to be a bunch of them here 40 yrs ago
The smallest most low impact method for me would be the time I rucked in 2.5 miles with a 046 stihl ,single bit axe,a froe and some wedges . Humped out around 100 pounds of guitar wood with a usgi molle large ruck.
Ive contemplated it snowstorm but thats an inbetween for me that i havent needed yet and keep backing out of. My 2wd tractor doesnt get stuck before it does a wheelie that wont come down. so the extra weight wouldnt be in the right place. The steering is junk, its not worthy of a loader or blade. If i were to turn the tractor into a Polish forwarder with no steer axle then id have no mower, compactor, chipper, etc etc.
I really ought to do a light winch crane on that trailer. But it may be too flimsy, i surprised it hasnt snapped.
The next trailer will be a walking beam, heavy frame and big bunks with a hydraulic grapple rotator on a squirt crane for behind a crawler, probably the Case. A crane is what i really really really need but i dont have all the resources on hand yet. I am hoping to see a crawler that can wrestle 4 cord out or more without a driven trailer. I will probably put a winch ontop a skeleton grapple on the case loader so it can fetch off the hillsides and reel to the crane, push against the lean etc etc. I only want to drive in and out once a day
I never really saw anyone put a big dray behind a crawler. The ones ive seen always seem way too small. Theres that one guy sledding a train load behind a 350 and thats all i can find.
Wherever the crawler dray is maxed out, that is the starting line for the 8x8. If i live to finish that and am still looking for a challenge, the 5ton axles i am using have a toploader with flanges at both sides of the chunk so you can put as many axles inline as you have driveshafts for. groundspeed PTOs sticking out the font and back of the machine are just begging for a powered pintle tag trailer that can go at either end where room allows such a contraption.
My smallest logging equipment, from back when I was doing things the hard way:
Grapple:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Firewood_tongs_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613330065)
My "skidder" was a Craftsman garden tractor, and my forwarding trailer was a Rubbermaid garden cart. That got old really quickly. (Sorry, I have no photos of that equipment.)
What I mostly use now is a NH TC33D, 33 HP Compact Tractor with Sundown GR40 grapple and Uniforest 35E logging winch. Added a belly pan, grill guard, and limb risers (which included a bit of protection from falling objects)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Storm_clean-up_Pine_log.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1510787237)
I've also upgraded my forwarding trailer just a bit when I guy a couple hours down the road was selling his Metavic forwarding trailer (he only had about 50 hours on it). This is a shot from when I was clearing an outdoor classroom space in the woods behind a local elementary school. I could not have gotten anything any bigger back in to this location.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/M95_MCS_Woods_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613330894)
And then occasionally, Brutus (1951 Dodge M37 Korean War military pickup) gets called into service, either hauling firewood or pulling the forwarding trailer:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Brutus_firewood_sm.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613331617)
Cool m37 . Does it have the factory pto winch?
Quote from: John Mc on February 14, 2021, 02:43:33 PM
My smallest logging equipment, from back when I was doing things the hard way:
Grapple:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Firewood_tongs_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613330065)
My "skidder" was a Craftsman garden tractor, and my forwarding trailer was a Rubbermaid garden cart. That got old really quickly. (Sorry, I have no photos of that equipment.)
What I mostly use now is a NH TC33D, 33 HP Compact Tractor with Sundown GR40 grapple and Uniforest 35E logging winch. Added a belly pan, grill guard, and limb risers (which included a bit of protection from falling objects)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Storm_clean-up_Pine_log.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1510787237)
I've also upgraded my forwarding trailer just a bit when I guy a couple hours down the road was selling his Metavic forwarding trailer (he only had about 50 hours on it). This is a shot from when I was clearing an outdoor classroom space in the woods behind a local elementary school. I could not have gotten anything any bigger back in to this location.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/M95_MCS_Woods_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613330894)
And then occasionally, Brutus (1951 Dodge M37 Korean War military pickup) gets called into service, either hauling firewood or pulling the forwarding trailer:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Brutus_firewood_sm.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613331617)
Nice M-37; I've got a 51' as well; ex Air Force owned with about 15 layers of paint, lol. The driveline yokes are about as weak as weak can be.
The M37s ride really nice compared to the old style Power Wagons
Quote from: Runningalucas on February 14, 2021, 02:57:53 PM
Quote from: John Mc on February 14, 2021, 02:43:33 PM
My smallest logging equipment, from back when I was doing things the hard way:
Grapple:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Firewood_tongs_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613330065)
My "skidder" was a Craftsman garden tractor, and my forwarding trailer was a Rubbermaid garden cart. That got old really quickly. (Sorry, I have no photos of that equipment.)
What I mostly use now is a NH TC33D, 33 HP Compact Tractor with Sundown GR40 grapple and Uniforest 35E logging winch. Added a belly pan, grill guard, and limb risers (which included a bit of protection from falling objects)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Storm_clean-up_Pine_log.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1510787237)
I've also upgraded my forwarding trailer just a bit when I guy a couple hours down the road was selling his Metavic forwarding trailer (he only had about 50 hours on it). This is a shot from when I was clearing an outdoor classroom space in the woods behind a local elementary school. I could not have gotten anything any bigger back in to this location.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/M95_MCS_Woods_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613330894)
And then occasionally, Brutus (1951 Dodge M37 Korean War military pickup) gets called into service, either hauling firewood or pulling the forwarding trailer:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Brutus_firewood_sm.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613331617)
Nice M-37; I've got a 51' as well; ex Air Force owned with about 15 layers of paint, lol. The driveline yokes are about as weak as weak can be.
Driveline has been good for me. When I was pulled between 15-20k a few times on a 1,200 mile trip with a 3.7 turbo Diesel in my M37. Did break the axle with the locking differential. And needed a heavy beefed up clutch
John mc that's a nice hardtop you have on the M37 that's a factory one and there worth a few 💰
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 14, 2021, 03:53:04 PM
John mc that's a nice hardtop you have on the M37 that's a factory one and there worth a few 💰
It's been nice driving it in colder weather with that hard top. My friend across town (who restores Dodge Power Wagons and M37s professionally) has an M37 with the soft top. I have to admit I do envy him in the summer when he's driving around town with the top down and the windshield folded flat against the hood.
Quote from: grabber green on February 14, 2021, 02:48:44 PM
Cool m37 . Does it have the factory pto winch?
It did not have one originally. Someone had added a 9000# electric winch and cut a hole in the front bumper to feed the cable through. (It was a 12 volt winch connected to one of the two 12V batteries in the stock 24V system. Not a great setup for the batteries, and the generator really doesn't have the oomph to recharge things in a reasonable time after some hard winching.)
I bought an original winch and PTO from a guy in Ohio, pulled my front bumper off, and had a local fab shop guy cut that down into the two "bumperettes" that go with the winch. That's getting installed next month, when it's going in to my friend's shop for some other work.
This is never going to be a museum piece. I wanted something with some "character", but that I would not be heartbroken if I dinged it up driving it in the woods.
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 14, 2021, 03:34:43 PM
The M37s ride really nice compared to the old style Power Wagons
It does ride nice. The previous owner added power steering, which has also made it easier to maneuver. I came with Michelin 11.00-R16 tires on it, which are 2"+ bigger than stock. At first I thought it was a bit "over the top" for my taste. I'm not into mud racing or anything like that. However, the extra ground clearance has been great in the woods, and it does up the top end on the speed a bit.
It is
noisy, though! Part of this is due to a hole in the exhaust manifold, which will be addressed soon. I think some heavy rubber mats on the floor will help as well: the floor just acts like a sounding board when you get up to speed. Even throwing some tools on the passenger side helps damp it down a bit.
Quote from: Runningalucas on February 14, 2021, 02:57:53 PM
Nice M-37; I've got a 51' as well; ex Air Force owned with about 15 layers of paint, lol. The driveline yokes are about as weak as weak can be.
I have not had ANY problems with the drive train so far, other than it wanting to pop out of 3rd gear (that also will get addressed soon).
Brutus is going into my friend's shop next month for a bit of work. We're swapping out the 230 engine that was stock for US Military M37s and putting in a 251 which was used in the Canadian version. Even when new those 230s were really undersized for these trucks. You do not want to get stuck behind me on even a moderate upgrade. If you are willing to downshift and go slow, it will pull a surprising amount, you just aren't getting anywhere fast.
Some folks put in more modern V8s or diesels and cruise at 65 or 70 MPH. However, I really like the older engines. As I told my friend, I didn't really want to go faster, I just wanted to be able to go "as fast, more of the time".
In addition to the engine swap, we are rebuilding the transmission and transfer case, installing the winch mentioned earlier, and replacing the front drums with disk brakes (I need a little better stopping power when pulling a load, especially on some of these hills).
Sounds like your going to make some good improvements 👍
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 14, 2021, 04:55:28 PM
Sounds like your going to make some good improvements 👍
And he will stop "marking his territory" by dripping oil everywhere he is parked.
Quote from: John Mc on February 14, 2021, 04:25:10 PM
Quote from: Runningalucas on February 14, 2021, 02:57:53 PM
Nice M-37; I've got a 51' as well; ex Air Force owned with about 15 layers of paint, lol. The driveline yokes are about as weak as weak can be.
I have not had ANY problems with the drive train so far, other than it wanting to pop out of 3rd gear (that also will get addressed soon).
Brutus is going into my friend's shop next month for a bit of work. We're swapping out the 230 engine that was stock for US Military M37s and putting in a 251 which was used in the Canadian version. Even when new those 230s were really undersized for these trucks. You do not want to get stuck behind me on even a moderate upgrade. If you are willing to downshift and go slow, it will pull a surprising amount, you just aren't getting anywhere fast.
Some folks put in more modern V8s or diesels and cruise at 65 or 70 MPH. However, I really like the older engines. As I told my friend, I didn't really want to go faster, I just wanted to be able to go "as fast, more of the time".
In addition to the engine swap, we are rebuilding the transmission and transfer case, installing the winch mentioned earlier, and replacing the front drums with disk brakes (I need a little better stopping power when pulling a load, especially on some of these hills).
Yes, their drivelines, ring, and pinion are weak. Mine was fine for years of use, then backing up a steep incline from a river bank, and a yoke just snapped; very little extra reinforcing meat. They're commonly upgraded from what I hear.
Our's still has the old 230, we rebuilt it about 22 years ago, and at that time the military motor pool had apparently rebuilt it to the limit; as the crank was turned too far down. We had to replace it.
I'm not sure what we're going to do with the old beast, I learned to drive a stick with it. Maybe it'll get more modern drivetrain components, and maybe it'll stay stock. We painted a mule on the back as it'll go through, and up anything, but slow as slow can be.
I use my Kubota BX22 with either my hydraulic winch and arch or the Wallenstein Timber Talon. Low impact and moves a lot of wood.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13397/0509151353a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1431500396)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13397/2014-09-01_10_39_34.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1409714012)
Nice little setup 👍
Nice, @Wallys World (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=3397) ! Wallentstein doesn't advertise the Timber Talon anymore - at least not that i can find. They do show an LXT95 (9.5' reach. 5000# load capacity, off-road) and an LXT115 (11.5' reach, 11,500# load capacity, highway towable). Is yours similar to one of those, or something different?
If I remember correctly, weren't you using yours to help out in a church firewood donation program to families in need? I do something similar with mine: we have a community effort. We started off the heating season VERY busy, but things seem to have tapered off a lot lately.
Yes, they are simular. They are on the main web site, and only 2 models are listed.
I am still using it for the firewood ministry. We are up to 64 face cords as of today.
I am making a cone type wedge that will go in place of the gapple for splitting monster pieces. I have an 9 inch auger for it, so the cone off of Ebay should work good.
I have a 30 hp L3010 and a 2001 Ram3500. Don't usually work with stuff this big .......
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/BigPine8.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1445298584)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/LoadingPine10.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1445527104)
gg
Nice setup @Wallys World (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=3397) , I am jealous of your trailer. I have a Wallenstein grapple for my big skidsteer and I really like the quality of it, not to mention it is my favorite attachment. A forwarding trailer like that sure would be nice...I have it on the project list to fabricate one day.
@g_man (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11065) That's a nice truck, man that had to be a heavy load in the back, looks like some big white oak.
It seems the 3pt log skidder/winch setup is pretty common. Any downsides to it? I may be paranoid, but I hate going into the woods in a tractor, especially one without a cab. I was nearly decapitated when I was cleaning up a trail with a dozer blade on my compact tractor and I wasn't paying much attention to the fact that a 10" log I was pushing out of the way was about 40' long and was bending like a bow, luckily I saw it rise up on the blade at the last second before it slid up over the blade and sprung at me. I was able to duck in time before it almost knocked my ROPs off the tractor. I immediately drove down from the woods to the house and told my wife I was selling the tractor and getting a skidsteer :)
After getting a skidsteer I can't count how many times large limbs and debris have crashed onto the top while working in the woods. Stay safe out there!
Quote from: driftlessinwi on February 15, 2021, 10:39:50 AM
@g_man (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11065) That's a nice truck, man that had to be a heavy load in the back, looks like some big white oak.
It seems the 3pt log skidder/winch setup is pretty common. Any downsides to it? I may be paranoid, but I hate going into the woods in a tractor, especially one without a cab. I was nearly decapitated when I was cleaning up a trail with a dozer blade on my compact tractor and I wasn't paying much attention to the fact that a 10" log I was pushing out of the way was about 40' long and was bending like a bow, luckily I saw it rise up on the blade at the last second before it slid up over the blade and sprung at me. I was able to duck in time before it almost knocked my ROPs off the tractor. I immediately drove down from the woods to the house and told my wife I was selling the tractor and getting a skidsteer :)
After getting a skidsteer I can't count how many times large limbs and debris have crashed onto the top while working in the woods. Stay safe out there!
The dropping limbs and the springy trees while pushing brush are what motivated my roof and limb risers on my tractor. I'm sure the roof would suffer some damage, but at least deflect things away from me
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20201230_133231870.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1609353224)
Just for kicks, here's Mark (ND hermit I call'm) scheme'n to get his firewood out. :D
Scouting firewood along the spring - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atIHodxozz4)
Here he goes in the M37. :D :D
Haul out - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffPo0FsXAVY)
Polaris 570 SxS with winch and a chainsaw and axe, is all the log'n gear I use. ;D I forward my wood, I don't drag. ;)
Quote from: driftlessinwi on February 13, 2021, 04:44:25 PM
don't get something with a CVT transmission,
My '06 Polaris 500EFI CVT trans works great for pulling logs. You always use low range pulling or at low speed. We've skidded logs as big as it would pull. I figured the belt was probably needing replaced at about 3000 miles but left it alone because it was fine. I checked it later, probably about 4500 and it was still fine. At 6000 miles and 12 years old the belt finally grenaded going down the highway at 55 mph.
Quote from: azmtnman on February 15, 2021, 08:31:48 PM
Quote from: driftlessinwi on February 13, 2021, 04:44:25 PM
don't get something with a CVT transmission,
My '06 Polaris 500EFI CVT trans works great for pulling logs. You always use low range pulling or at low speed. We've skidded logs as big as it would pull. I figured the belt was probably needing replaced at about 3000 miles but left it alone because it was fine. I checked it later, probably about 4500 and it was still fine. At 6000 miles and 12 years old the belt finally grenaded going down the highway at 55 mph.
It's proven fine. Thousands sold. But the transmission in the Honda's are extremely good from what I've heard
Polaris has also had and maybe still do have military contracts with their units
I am lazy i like my garret 15 small footprint in the woods and goes any where,and pull more then it looks like it could, and when I get snow it make a good snow plow
I started with a yahama moto 4 with a 2'x7' sears garden trailer, doing building lots for friends after work an weekends. When that over heated one summer I got a yahama big bear. I found a single axle boat trailer and made a trailer out of that. When Bailey's offered the hydraulic picker I put that on the trailer and built a hydro pack and put that on the front of the big bear. That worked to run the picker and a vertical 4' wood splitter. That all started around 1988, by 98 I quit working in the machine shop and went full time with a massey model 30 w/loader and 3pt fransgurd winch. And it only got worse from there with bigger equiptment. One time I put a fisher plow frame on the back of my massey harris 81r snowplow trac, and tried a massey 1433 with the boat trailer on a red pine job and traded that for the Landini 5860. Also tried a TD6 but that cost $700. everytime I tried to use it. Now it's the Landini or the Taylor skidder.
A slippery slope indeed.
What did the TD6 keep breaking?
Doing TSI with the harvest, about 100 gum and maple per acre. Could use the clearing saw
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34089/04CFE327-911A-41EC-930D-F36892D0BC12.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1613485201)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34089/614BBDAA-48EE-44CA-88A8-23764083C423.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1613485200)
Ops wrong thread
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 15, 2021, 08:50:55 PM
Polaris has also had and maybe still do have military contracts with their units
they still do. a 4 seat rzr with a machine gun
My 440 Arctic Cat snowmobile with tag a long sled works good in winter when conditions are right.
Buck up manageable 6' lengths and load em on the sled, looks like a dogsled and is a homemade affair.
Can get into some tight places only needing about 4' wide trail.
Sometimes In the summer I'll use the lawn tractor with a trailer for bucked up tops left behind on smooth trails.
You asked for small, granted neither are production but when you become retired who cares about production.
OK not logging tools but good for firewood.
Quote from: Gary Davis on February 15, 2021, 09:23:43 PM
I am lazy i like my garret 15 small footprint in the woods and goes any where,and pull more then it looks like it could, and when I get snow it make a good snow plow
Curious what the weight is on that unit and how many hp
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/20210216_153328.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613527616)
atv is for trips back to the barn
Farmi 501 skidder winch, 11,000 pound pull
will be adding a trailer hitch to tow a trailer for the logs
FYI, the Winch makes a great counter weight for the FEL
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/0516040928~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1477239047)
9 ft 3 way grader blade
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/PICT0043.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1446827102)
Job box i built
yes there are 4 forks on the forklift, makes a tractor-pitchfork
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/GEDC1212.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1509986371)
job box opened so the lid becomes a work table
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/GEDC1216.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1509986367)
Mike, one time the bearings in the transmission fell apart, another when I was starting on gas it back fired an blew the rear main seal out so while the pan was down I replaced the bottom end. I finally made enough $$$ to break even and sold it for 2k just to relieve my mind.
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 15, 2021, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: azmtnman on February 15, 2021, 08:31:48 PM
Quote from: driftlessinwi on February 13, 2021, 04:44:25 PM
don't get something with a CVT transmission,
My '06 Polaris 500EFI CVT trans works great for pulling logs. You always use low range pulling or at low speed. We've skidded logs as big as it would pull. I figured the belt was probably needing replaced at about 3000 miles but left it alone because it was fine. I checked it later, probably about 4500 and it was still fine. At 6000 miles and 12 years old the belt finally grenaded going down the highway at 55 mph.
It's proven fine. Thousands sold. But the transmission in the Honda's are extremely good from what I've heard
I have a Honda pioneer 1000-5. 6 speed dual clutch transmission, hi/low range, differential lock. It will pull way more than you think it should. I have skidded a 20"x16' white oak log with it on flat ground. And if you're in a hurry to get back it will run about 67 mph. Before I had this one I had a pioneer 500. It was a good little rig too. Most of the time if I'm in the woods I use my Kubota L2501 with homemade skidding winch. I will post some pics later today.
Quote from: Patrick NC on February 18, 2021, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 15, 2021, 08:47:17 PMI have a Honda pioneer 1000-5. 6 speed dual clutch transmission, hi/low range, differential lock. It will pull way more than you think it should. I have skidded a 20"x16' white oak log with it on flat ground. And if you're in a hurry to get back it will run about 67 mph. Before I had this one I had a pioneer 500. It was a good little rig too. Most of the time if I'm in the woods I use my Kubota L2501 with homemade skidding winch. I will post some pics later today.
Is that a standard transmission?
I was looking for a Honda Rincon 650 or 700--whatever they were then--when I bought my Polaris but couldn't find one. It was replacing a 2000 Honda TRX300FW not because there was anything wrong with it but because it came from a state that doesn't title them and I moved to a state that required a MV title.
I wasn't planning to use it to pull logs when I bought it. The Rincon has an automotive style automatic trans. I know the old Rubicon 500 was declared by many to be the best ATV transmission ever.
It can either be run in auto shift or shifted manually with paddle shifters. It is a gear drive transmission like Honda has in their motorcycles. Not like an automatic transmission at all. I usually run mine in auto shift mode unless I want to hold one gear for some reason like towing or climbing a steep hill.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59254/IMG_20210219_131746825.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613778665)
Quote from: Patrick NC on February 19, 2021, 06:51:33 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59254/IMG_20210219_131746825.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613778665)
Very 👍. I really like those units a lot!
this is mine 2003 Honda Foreman 450ES with cycle country 3 point on the back Warn 3000 rope winch to pull the log in close and choke it up to get the but off the ground and away I go.
can lift the rear dolly wheels off the ground when backing up to make it more nimbly to get around in the woods.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/40453/foreman_and_log~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613785377)
Supper bee in the garage??
Quote from: mike_belben on February 13, 2021, 11:19:42 PM
Well, i guess this is a pictorial of my lifes work in progress. Im building a little redneck engineer at my industrial homeschool.
i started him at the beginning. How much wood can ya move flat dragging with 7hp and 2wd? Here ya go kiddo. Go find out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/20161129_161831.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594528774)
Quote from: mike_belben on February 13, 2021, 11:19:42 PMHow much wood can ya move flat dragging with 7hp and 2wd? Here ya go kiddo. Go find out.
Mike -
That picture of the little kid driving away with the logs in tow is by far my favorite picture in this thread.
A friend a few miles from me has a son who has been totally into tractors and equipment probably since before he could talk. He has a John Deere battery operated ride-on tractor with trailer that he is always using to help out with the family's yard work. Half the town is posting pictures on her Facebook page with suggestions of what he "needs" to feed his addiction. I hope you don't mind, but I put a copy of your picture there. From the back, he looks just like the kid in your photo, so lots of locals thought it was him.
His mother heard that I was using some of my equipment to clear an outdoor classroom space in the woods behind the school last summer and asked if she could bring him over to watch (he was going stir-crazy with the virus restrictions, so she was looking for something outdoors for him to do). Of course, I needed some help that day, so he got a lesson on using the forwarding trailer and helped me load some logs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Ben_loading_log_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613836883)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Ben_loading_log_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613836945)
John and Mike, you guys are the best!
Keep up the good work - takes a village to raise a kid. 8)
Thanks buddy, no i dont mind at all. I didnt appreciate those days when i had them and now theyre gone.
Dads.. Dont wait. Do it today.
TSLs are a good choice for a forwarding trailer that has to do woods and road. Good on ya for letting him play john.
I have to get some new links for the joysticks on the backhoe next time i have some money.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/1211201218_Film3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1607712360)
Quote from: mike_belben on February 20, 2021, 12:09:38 PMTSLs are a good choice for a forwarding trailer that has to do woods and road.
The previous owner ordered the trailer with those. The trailer comes standard with "implement tires" which are mostly smooth. He ordered the trailer with electric brakes - not often done on that size/model trailer. He was pulling it with a smaller pickup and a tractor that was basically the Kubota version of my NH TC33D. He didn't want to overwork the brakes on his truck, or get pushed around by the trailer while coming down hill pulling it out of the woods with his tractor. The smooth stock tires would have no traction in the woods. He had a cheap brake controller which he just plugged in to power on his tractor, and ran the trailer brakes with the manual control on the brake controller (Since there is no brake light switch to trigger the brakes automatically on a tractor).
Quote from: azmtnman on February 18, 2021, 09:39:03 PM
Quote from: Patrick NC on February 18, 2021, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 15, 2021, 08:47:17 PMI have a Honda pioneer 1000-5. 6 speed dual clutch transmission, hi/low range, differential lock. It will pull way more than you think it should. I have skidded a 20"x16' white oak log with it on flat ground. And if you're in a hurry to get back it will run about 67 mph. Before I had this one I had a pioneer 500. It was a good little rig too. Most of the time if I'm in the woods I use my Kubota L2501 with homemade skidding winch. I will post some pics later today.
Is that a standard transmission?
I was looking for a Honda Rincon 650 or 700--whatever they were then--when I bought my Polaris but couldn't find one. It was replacing a 2000 Honda TRX300FW not because there was anything wrong with it but because it came from a state that doesn't title them and I moved to a state that required a MV title.
I wasn't planning to use it to pull logs when I bought it. The Rincon has an automotive style automatic trans. I know the old Rubicon 500 was declared by many to be the best ATV transmission ever.
@azmtnman (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=29486)
I have three Honda's (800 Pioneer, 500 Foreman/Rubicon, and a Rincon). I will say the Foreman and Pioneer are probably best for logging. The Rincon doesn't have a great rear end for a sturdy hitch (I had to do pretty extensive welding to make one), and it lacks a solid axle like used by the Foreman. All of the transmissions are great in Honda's, but I would think of the Rincon as a sports car in the ATV world. Once you trail ride with it, you will love going fast on it because it handles like no other ATV I have been on...but it has really limited slip differentials, so you will get stuck in snow and mud more easily...I was reminded of this yesterday driving in deep snow :) The Pioneers are great and are great work horses...I have had 0 problems with all three Hondas over the last decade. I also have a Polaris ACE 570 that I use for pulling my log arch, it has been fine too, but the CVT transmission drives me bonkers when going down hills, and I have struggled with overheating on it (finally made some tweaks to the radiator and no problems since). The best part of the ACE is the windshield and roll cage in a footprint the size of a regular 4 wheeler, and it has a mini trunk/bed for hauling the saw around. Oh, and the Rincon doesn't have a low range, at least mine doesn't. That should probably rule it out as a puller of logs :) even though it would probably work ok. I have found my favorite features for all my ATVs are fuel injection, power steering, low range, and diff lock. Get those and you will be happy! :)
Quote from: driftlessinwi on February 21, 2021, 02:26:31 PM
I have found my favorite features for all my ATVs are fuel injection, power steering, low range, and diff lock. Get those and you will be happy! :)
I agree
my order would be,
low range
diff lock
power steering
fuel injection
next would be Fuel
Diesel
Ethanol free
Mike_Belben--was watching videos of smaller logging/sawing co's: a small operation, "lumber capitol log yard", might be you & your gang in a few years. The "Boss Man" (father) has got his kids involved in all aspects. I wish I could run an LT40 as well as his daughters :-[! BTW, very impressive how you're bringing your kids up right....All the best, Rob.
yep, the way to change the future is to start with the kids
Quote from: Ed_K on February 20, 2021, 06:19:41 AM
Supper bee in the garage??
68 Dodge Charger
Have had the charger since 2000 built that garage for the car to have a safe place to be in the winter months.
what I use
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15228/20210224_154417.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15228/20210220_163055.jpg)