Anyone know fast way to remove loblally pine stump removal? I have two, say, 22 inch DBH that need to be gone where I want to have a carport installed for me to store a boat. Problem is, there is a bit of a grade there, even a bit of a crown along the center axis of where the carport would be. So, I need to grade some dirt off and make it flat. But the trees are on the axis of the high spot. The stumps, where the stump meets the ground will be about 4 inches above the grade of where it will be once I level it out. So, there is quite a bit of stump to remove.
I am thinking I would be better off to totally remove all wood from the stump hole but I'm open. Such as, burn it out. What's quick? If I hire a grinder, would that be sufficient to dig down deep enough? Are they skittish of 'grinding' dirt or will they just let it rip to get down deep enough so it won't interfere with my carport floor? Carport floor, I haven't decided. Might just be dirt, or gravel or even concrete if I hit the lottery!
Stump grinder will do the job for you. They can grind below grade.
Wudman
Quickest way would be to mix up some diesel and ammonium nitrate. Stumps will be removed from the ground at 26,000 FPS.
Mind you this suggestion only addresses your question about getting them out fast, where they will be after is left unanswered. :D
Excavator would be my choice. That stump will take about 8 years to rot here, and the depression will get deeper over that time, plus some more. That stump will have a pretty deep, and good sized tap.
Dig it out and backfill. If you use a stump grinder the remaining stump will rot for the next 30 years creating a below ground void.
I've been digging stumps for a long time with my backhoe. I go easy, and gentle, but it's still rough on the machine. Many rental companies won't rent excavators, or backhoes for stumps, as it's so hard on the hydraulics; seals blow, and rams bend.
It's best to wait a few years after the trees have died as 1st year removal compared to a few years later is incredibly different.
Having said all of that, I know the oldtimers would use dynamite, but that was back when we could trust people to do stupid crap; in today's nannie state, I guess we're all the threat, so no dynamite. However, most sporting goods stores sell tannerite. Considering the ton or more of dirt, and stone attached to the base of the stump, I could see it working good to make a few larger stumps, 'targets', and a heck of a lot easier on any machine removing them.
Id want a midi size excavator with a thumb, uncover the root flare and sawzall the side roots. Using a 3" bulb drill, bore holes all around and under to flood the subsoil with collected rainwater and work the thing a million times.. The water will churn the dirt to porridge and slowly lose grip on the roots.
It will be much easier with a few years of rot, especially drilling in for water and air to support microbes eating away below grade. Also much easier if you are able to section the stump crowns into 3rds or 4ths like a molar extraction. You can use a sacrificial chain to bore cut straight down and slot the stump then drive wedges in and sawzall more wherever fiber is holding. Ive not really stumped pines of any size. A 22" oak root ball is about 4ft across and cant be picked up by a small skid steer or dragged by a truck. I did one last summer and am still adding dirt to the settled hole. Its a big job, probably done a dozen the past 5 years.
The dirt will need backfilling and compacting or a very long settling with lots of rain and more filling to stabilize and stop leaving a crater. Be sure to account for ATLEAST 3" of compacted stone base for drainage below the slab. And also the course of runoff water from this slop must be redirected to never drain into the slab gravels.
Its a pretty good sized task to do right. Armed with the information id suggest farming the whole thing out to a competent contractor with the stipulation that you want XYZ done with this outcome of runoff redirect being very critical upfront.
Any excavators, even a mini, should be able to make fairly quick work of that. With smaller machines you just have to start farther out. Keep digging and cutting roots, move in and see if the main stump will flex. If not, go cut more roots. I dig them out with my skid steer fairly often, with a stump that size I will end up with a hole 15' wide and at least 4' deep in the middle.
The mini will surely do most of the digging but it might not even drag the stump. Idk.. I never had a mini nor pine stumps. But my 742 bobcat cant even flip the ball from a 20" + oak. Totally agree on the size of the moon crater.
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36 inch cottonwood, dug with a skid steer back hoe attachment. pushed and pulled out. back filled with sandy loam via Dallas and his manure spreader.
I have a Case 1845c, it's about 6500# without tracks on I think. Tracks help a bunch in that situation. A pine stump of that size would likely take me 2-3 hours to get out with it.
I'm in the backhoe it out crowd or an excavator. I've pulled quite a few stumps out with my backhoe. I'm assuming it's a stump already? Things could be easier if it still has a few feet of trunk to it, ideally 6 or 8 feet, then leverage can often pop the stump out with the trunk. Sometimes they are really in there and that wouldn't matter. I have one along my drive way that I've tried yanking down using that leverage and it ain't moving.
This stump is sitting next to my 24" wide hoe bucket, then the hole that was left. It's not difficult to get 4-6 feet deep and yeah, I'll agree that you may need 10-15' diameter to reach all the roots and break them loose, and you need access all the way around the stump. I've never tried getting in the hole to cut roots manually, I've just scraped and tugged on them until they split or popped, sometimes the roots really tried to flip the backhoe. Often you work on one side, give a tug on the top of the stump to see if it's moving at all, then go to the other side and do the same thing. At some point you'll get through the big roots enough that when you pull on the top of the stump you can rock it's way out. Then you've got to work the loose stump out of the hole. This stump was from a recently dead tree, I think Ash, but I'm not positive, but the roots broke off it reasonably well, it was probably about 2' across.
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I think the 2-3 hour time frame is about right like someone else mentioned. Then hole cleanup can be a bit more time depending on the skill level of the operator.
I dig out stumps that size all the time with a 10,000 lb mini excavator. 12 or 18" bucket so you can dig the roots out all the way around about 3 feet deep without going wider than you have to. Then just wiggle it like a loose tooth and it will pop loose shortly. Drag the stump out next to the hole and dig all the excess dirt off the bottom and push the dirt back in the hole. You should gain enough dirt to finish filling the hole when you grade the area out flat. ( Good time to get that done while you have the mini ex) Rent a plate tamp at the same time to compact the backfill in lifts as you fill the hole back up.
"Wiggle it like a loose tooth" is perfect @Patrick NC (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=49254)
Also, if the trees haven't been cut yet, the stumps are easier to get out if you use the tree for leverage. Or leave the stump a couple of feet high to have something to pull against with the bucket.
Quote from: aigheadish on March 24, 2021, 03:22:10 PM
I'm in the backhoe it out crowd or an excavator. I've pulled quite a few stumps out with my backhoe. I'm assuming it's a stump already? Things could be easier if it still has a few feet of trunk to it, ideally 6 or 8 feet, then leverage can often pop the stump out with the trunk. Sometimes they are really in there and that wouldn't matter. I have one along my drive way that I've tried yanking down using that leverage and it ain't moving.
This stump is sitting next to my 24" wide hoe bucket, then the hole that was left. It's not difficult to get 4-6 feet deep and yeah, I'll agree that you may need 10-15' diameter to reach all the roots and break them loose, and you need access all the way around the stump. I've never tried getting in the hole to cut roots manually, I've just scraped and tugged on them until they split or popped, sometimes the roots really tried to flip the backhoe. Often you work on one side, give a tug on the top of the stump to see if it's moving at all, then go to the other side and do the same thing. At some point you'll get through the big roots enough that when you pull on the top of the stump you can rock it's way out. Then you've got to work the loose stump out of the hole. This stump was from a recently dead tree, I think Ash, but I'm not positive, but the roots broke off it reasonably well, it was probably about 2' across.
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I think the 2-3 hour time frame is about right like someone else mentioned. Then hole cleanup can be a bit more time depending on the skill level of the operator.
I missed @aigheadish (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=53516) addressing leaving the stumps high for leverage. My bad. Wasn't trying to step on your post.
If you're digging with a skid steer, what you don't want is a 4' stump, it's a good way to get killed. If you tip the machine forward it will come right in the cab with you. I saw a "Fatalgram" of an operator killed using a shear on a skid steer. He was cutting a multi-stemmed tree, so he had to cut them about 4' high. Grabbed the last one, cut and lifted it and it tipped him forward right onto the stumps which came into the machine and killed him. I about did myself in once pushing over a whole tree with a track skid steer, it had a worn (read really sharp) cutting edge on the bucket that I was pushing 6-7' up on the tree with. One of those instances where I realized what I was doing was a bad idea, at the same time the bad thing happened- the cutting edge sheared the roughly 12" aspen right off, I was trying to keep moving forward to keep the butt in the bucket or I knew it was coming right into the cab. The stump was in the way though, so I swung and turned the machine, allowing the butt to hit the ground by the side of the tracks. I about messed myself I think, that was a close one! 😬
With an excavator I'm all for leaving a nice tall stump to leverage though.
Skid steer is a very poor stumping tool imo. And i have a grapple stump bucket to boot.
Quote from: livemusic on March 23, 2021, 02:34:48 PM
Anyone know fast way to remove loblally pine stump removal? I have two, say, 22 inch DBH that need to be gone where I want to have a carport installed for me to store a boat. .........
I had to remove several tree stumps for my Polebarn build in Montana.
tried my Bobcat 331 excavator 8,000 pound. too under powered for the big stumps.
brought the Bobcat E80 excavator, 18,000 pound, and was done in a day
used a frost tooth on each.
this tooth is for the 331.
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stump with LARGE root
Bobcat 331 in photo
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Backhoe a guy up here ground out the stump poured the cement floor a few years later the roots strated to rot out the snakes moved in his wife was ready to shoot him.
Now he cant give the house away. >:(
That frost tooth would be ideal to slice through all your roots and get a good hold of the stump top to wiggle it, just a little bit. I wish I could easily toss one of those on the backhoe.
Can't help on the stump, I leave my for 10 years than I try to dig them out.
But on the base, good gravel and high. Get it up in the air and out of the water and mud. Seen too many places without a good high base and and water gets in. :(
Mike, a skid steer works just as good on stumps as an excavator- when you don't have an excavator😁 My machine is a bit different animal than your Bobcat, too. I have a lot of hours doing more than should be done with a skid, the company I used to work for thought excavators were too expensive so they paid us union wages to excavate all if our driveway work with skids. So you figured out a way to get as quick as possible with what you had at hand🤷🏽♂️ I might have to make a stump removal video sometimen it goes faster than you'd think.
Any body mention dynamite? 8)
I wanted the whole stump out so I used the tree for leverage with my SkyTrac
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He says he wants a carport, dynamite or tannerite might be hard on the house. ;D Call in a hoe and a dump truck, not the cheapest but quick and easy.
Quote from: Texas Ranger on March 25, 2021, 09:36:12 AM
Any body mention dynamite? 8)
See Reply #2. Great minds think alike. :D Or at least minds that have played with things that go BOOM!! ;D
Quote from: barbender on March 25, 2021, 09:02:05 AM
Mike, a skid steer works just as good on stumps as an excavator- when you don't have an excavator😁 My machine is a bit different animal than your Bobcat, too.
I guess that is true.. If youre doing the job the tool you have is better than the one you dont.
If all i had was the bobcat i wouldnt even start on any substantial oak stump here.. Takes 2+ hours with the dozer, my junk bobcat wont do it at all.
We are all clay based down here. When dry enough for a skid steer to operate, the roots may as well be cast in concrete. When saturated enough to slake the clay and release the roots, the skid steer cant turn for lack of traction in the mud pit it creates. Very easy to get sunk to the belly pan because youve had to work the water in deep.
I did one in my former bosses new holland ls170. The tree was already topped and limbed and i used forks to rip the roots but just couldnt drive up into the freshly ripped mess to actually push the stem. Had to curl it out with a crawler loader as the skid steer couldnt even get to the stem to push. Stiff breeze woulda been sufficient as the tree was uprooting and leaned already but the bobcat couldnt get through the warzone of ripped roots. If it could have, it would bee sitting on the root matt that the tree was attached to.
I still maintain that its just not a good stumping platform. A stationary base with tool on an articulated arm is best. I dig them out with the mini hoe on my tractor then cable straight up with the forklift, if i cant pop them with the fork itself. My rack wont allow both forks to come together and theyre irreplaceable so i have to take care not to bend them.
I have seen a guy with a good size skid steer put pallet forks on and poke all around the base in a circle at a pretty steep angle to remove a tree. Sort of emulated a tree spade. Worked pretty well. Tree was a good size post oak in hard clay. After the fork treatment he pushed the tree over with the bucket up pretty high on the tree. Took about half an hour and the tree and stump were gone. Of course that tree didn't have a tap root, so . . . Anyway he was an experienced operator and he'd done this more than a few times. The skidsteer isn't the best weapon for that kind of battle, but it works if that's the weapon you have.
My vote is a hoe for this job and make sure you don't leave any organics.
Thats what i did too but couldnt get traction on the wet roots so just kept high centering on thick roots in mud, getting stuck then having to push myself back with the forks. 550 deere loader had no issue.
Tracks make a big difference in that situation. Hard pan clay would be tough though, and it's something I've never had to work with. To be clear, I'm not recommending a skid steer as the best solution for stump removal- not even close. But the large frame machines can do it in many situations with an experienced operator. I've rolled out root balls that were bigger than my machine before. If Doc Henderson borrowed me his 287 Cat MTL I could really roll stumps out- even at the Belbens'😁 But I'd way rather do it with an excavator!
Im glad to point you at some scarlet oak stumps waiting patiently a few years but you need to fill in the 40 foot moon craters you make in the process. I wont mind firing up the dozer to get you unstuck as many times as needed.
;D
All of these answers have made me wonder how in the world anyone builds a housepad from a heavily wooded lot. I guess without removing every stump, you're asking for trouble many years down the way. Houses built around here are built on concrete slabs. I shudder to think of stumps below that. Hopefully, it's routine to remove all stumps before building. I've never really thought about it. The last pad I saw was just a few months ago and they did, indeed push all the trees (pines) over with a dozer. Hopefully, enough of the stump came up that it will be ok years down the way. But those pines were not as big as mine, they were about 10"-15" DBH.
In 85 when we built our log cabin I had all the stumps removed and buried at the edge of our future lawn. 36 yrs later and I've been filling the sunk in holes with more loam and there is still a 1 1/2 ft drop where each one is buried >:(. Where there was holes from the stumps at the front of the house footing we dug down a couple feet lower and back fill with good gravel in 6" lifts and haven't had any problems. Some of the stumps were 24" across :o.
That's what they did here. Dig out the old dirt, stumps too, can't forget the rocks either ;D and bring in some nice gravel for the slab for the garage. I only had a few stumps. One big one is up in the woods. I think it will be there a while.
I wouldn't entirely rule out a skidsteer.
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Is it really a skid steer if its got a hoe on?
;D
The parking lot at smith and wesson had a strip caving in parallel to and near a major city owned water main in a straight line. My boss (maintenance dept) was going back and forth with the city over whos problem the leak was. Several times it was shut off and scoped on a shared cost without finding issue.
I looked at the 1930s aerial nostalgia photos in the hall.. That area was once a pine forest made parking lot in the early 40s iirc. Went back and said 'Bill, water doesnt make a straight line underground, but a cable bladed dozer cutting a slot trench to bury stumps and tops does.' An excavator would dig a deep roundish hole but dozers were much more common than steam or cable shovels in this area.
They test bored and later pulled up a huge strip of rotted wood.
There's a "skidhoe" joke rattling around in my brain but I can't quite put it together. Lol