I am landsurveyor and use quite some stakes a year for grading and staking out foundations etc. I usually buy them with 500-1000 pcs a time. They aren't that expensive, but I was thinking of making them out some flints etc. that come from my edger. Not really to save money, but more because I hate it to burn the flints as firewood while I can give them a use.
I searched the forum and found out that in the US they use pencil - like stakes. Over here we only use 4 sided stakes. What is a efficient way to make 4 sided points? I was thinking of making a jig for my table saw and simply turn the stake over 4 times. I know it's time consuming, but I want to try it and decide later on or its worth it.
Last year I got a request for some plant stakes so I set up to make a bunch, maybe 6-10 dozen, I don't remember. Because they were long (8') I made them 6/4 square any defective wood pieces got cut off shorter and made into survey stakes for another customer. I suppose with clear wood and shorter stakes you could go down to 4/4 square.
I didn't have a pointing tool (probably buy one this year), so I set up a simple jig on my radial arm saw doing the 4 flip thing and went through them pretty quick. It was discussed here on the forum extensively so I guess you found some of those threads. LumberJack makes the pointing tool, not sure if there are others.
Several members have made dedicated pointing machines to run regular quantities and I may do that too if I can find a surplus motor laying around. Those setups will make quick work of it. I know @doc henderson (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041) , @Bruno of NH (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=26349) , and @WV Sawmiller (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=28064) all make these. I also have seen the full blown high production setup that @BargeMonkey (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24634) built to make trailer loads of these things, that is quite the operation. Making them from filch's might be more of a 'one at a time' thing because of all the odd sizes and live edge issues, etc. I do that on occasion just to use the wood, but those get used in my garden, I can't sell them.
Let us know how you make out.
here heavy stakes are a dollar each. The nice thing, is you could make them as you needed them, not a thousand at a time. how long does the stake need to survive? I assume a few months. many are softwood. now the stuff you buy at a big box store are poor quality. so you might make the stakes to your specifications, and save a few bucks. I made a jig to hold the blank upright, and use the pointing tool. it puts a point on the stake but the remainder is square. if you made a stake the was not square, like 1 x 2 cm, then I think 2 angles to make a point would be fine and easier on a chop saw. you get my point? :)
It will be easier to do large numbers if you establish a dimension and gear up for that.
What I make are tomato stakes and I put a simple one-sided 45* point on each. I just cut a 10' long 1" X 1" strip then cut it in half at the middle using a 7-1/4" circular saw set at a 45* angle. I cut several dozen strips then lay them on sawhorses, saw them in half then bundle them in pack of one dozen. A 5' stake is my most popular. Ones with run out or other defects I will make into 4' stakes. If they won't make a 4' stake I make 2' or 3' drying stickers out of them. A pointed stake would require me to make more investment in new and additional equipment and charge more for them.
Quote from: doc henderson on March 28, 2021, 09:04:48 AM
here heavy stakes are a dollar each. The nice thing, is you could make them as you needed them, not a thousand at a time. how long does the stake need to survive? I assume a few months. many are softwood. now the stuff you buy at a big box store are poor quality. so you might make the stakes to your specifications, and save a few bucks. I made a jig to hold the blank upright, and use the pointing tool. it puts a point on the stake but the remainder is square. if you made a stake the was not square, like 1 x 2 cm, then I think 2 angles to make a point would be fine and easier on a chop saw. you get my point? :)
It will be easier to do large numbers if you establish a dimension and gear up for that.
I survey and stake out mostly in road works and building sites. It's quite useless to have stakes that survive more than a few months. With those truck drivers and operators all around I'm already happy when they survive a few days :D When I mark points that should last longer, I pound in steel pipes. Most important is that they won't split when hammering, or break at knots. Sometimes I buy cheap stakes but they start getting expensive when you break half of them.
To me a chop saw looks much slower than a table saw, or isn't that true?
I am not sure how you plan to do it on a table saw, and if you want just a one sided 45° angle (hard to drive without it migrating) or two sides or 4 sides. You have to look at the tools you have or want to buy. you have to decide how easy and straight you want this to go. garden stakes and survey stakes are at two ends of the quality spectrum. I got the stake pointer so when I make concrete for stakes, they go where I put them. so 1, 2, or 4 sided point, vs round point. decide that first, then we can comment better on the best way to do that. I think for a 4 sided point that a chop saw would be fastest, unless you find a safe way to do them in bulk.
I don't think I would want to do these on a table saw. I might give the chop saw some thought and test, but the RAS jig I made up works quite well and is as fast as I can go. When doing 2 or 4 sided points there isn't much left at the tip to use for a stop, so your jig has to take this into account. I never tried the WV method, but I might this year, it's a lot faster and tomato stakes do not require the precision that a survey stake does. ;D
I only made a few out of pine, all mine are hardwood. This year I might because I have some rotten pine logs that may have a few stakes in them yet. Pine has to be cut at 6/4 or they won't handle the pounding in part. :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/C77E0CF5-398E-4845-BFD4-5F3CAFC57593.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1590094342)
I have 2 sizes of square tubing to easily hold square blanks. I stand on the mesh to hold it, and the tubing keeps them from spinning. I use the drill and the pointing tool. you can make it more like a stationary machine, but this is fast, and I only need them occasionally for gardening or concrete work. there are ideas on you tube. if you have a chop/miter saw, it can be set at 45° and quickly rotate the stake to do four points. do not cut you forearm. :o :) 8)
Quote from: doc henderson on March 28, 2021, 10:18:14 AM
I am not sure how you plan to do it on a table saw, and if you want just a one sided 45° angle (hard to drive without it migrating) or two sides or 4 sides. You have to look at the tools you have or want to buy. you have to decide how easy and straight you want this to go. garden stakes and survey stakes are at two ends of the quality spectrum. I got the stake pointer so when I make concrete for stakes, they go where I put them. so 1, 2, or 4 sided point, vs round point. decide that first, then we can comment better on the best way to do that. I think for a 4 sided point that a chop saw would be fastest, unless you find a safe way to do them in bulk.
I don't know in detail how I want to do it on a table saw. But it was the first thing that came up in me. When it works better or safer on a chop saw I will do that. I both have a chop saw and table saw.
I want to make 4 sided points at first. Sometimes we use 2 sided points, but that only works in sand or when I don't have to pound them in to deep. Mostly we use 4 sided 2' long stakes, 2x2 cm or 2x3 cm. (about 1x1'' or 1x1 1/2).
We do road layouts, and place them on finishing level of the road so they can level the subgrade and place the concrete shoulders at the correct height. No idea how they do it at your place, would be interesting to see!
on a table saw, you could build a sled, or use the miter gage, but would not be best for me. again it may depend on what tools you have or want to buy. could make a jig for a drill press. the hard part is to quickly secure and release the blank/stake.
they do rough grade with wood, but have steel stakes with a bracket to hold a smaller diameter finger that is adjustable in all directions. the finger has a slot to hold a string, and the paving machines have a sensor that follows the string. the stakes are 1 inch diam x 36 inches long.
I have sold lot of them to a farm in Vt.
I did them on a chop saw with jig. 4 sided.
This is much faster
By a lot and it didn't cost much. I have a contract with a highway department in the city I grew up in. The word got out on the quality and a site contractor showed up last week and put in a big order.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36349/20210213_140326.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613244636)
Quote from: Bruno of NH on March 28, 2021, 02:55:22 PM
I have sold lot of them to a farm in Vt.
I did them on a chop saw with jig. 4 sided.
This is much faster
By a lot and it didn't cost much. I have a contract with a highway department in the city I grew up in. The word got out on the quality and a site contractor showed up last week and put in a big order.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36349/20210213_140326.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613244636)
Nice Bruno,
D
I love your setup, Bruno- I might have to make one and I don't really even need any stakes. I just think it's cool😁
All the hubs (stakes) we used were oak.
1x2x 8" w/2 sided point for paving lines. 2x2 x 12-16" w/ 4 sided point for control points and soft spots.
Coming from someone who has pounded a lot of them, I hated the 90 deg points, but that's about all we ever got. Made them hard to drive. A 60 deg point is much better and I think a cutter to make round points like shown above would be fast.
Quote from: Bruno of NH on March 28, 2021, 02:55:22 PM
I have sold lot of them to a farm in Vt.
I did them on a chop saw with jig. 4 sided.
This is much faster
By a lot and it didn't cost much. I have a contract with a highway department in the city I grew up in. The word got out on the quality and a site contractor showed up last week and put in a big order.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36349/20210213_140326.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613244636)
That looks like a cool machine smiley_thumbsup
Strange that no one over here uses round pointed stakes. Only 2 or 4 sided. Maybe it's time to introduce the round pointed stakes, new market ;D
But first I would like to try something like this, a jig for a table saw for cutting the points. No investments, only making a simple jig for my table.
Maybe when I put the table on an angle, the wedges will slide of before they can get caught by the blade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLQ2CyEQJk&t=1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLQ2CyEQJk&t=1s)
I've got a jig for doing heavy stakes (50 x 38mm and up) and survey pegs (75/100 x 50mm) on a table saw... the pencil type pointers aren't up to the task in Australian hardwood at those sort of sizes. I'll grab some pictures tomorrow for you and post them here.
Quote from: doc henderson on March 28, 2021, 10:31:32 AM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/C77E0CF5-398E-4845-BFD4-5F3CAFC57593.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1590094342)
I have 2 sizes of square tubing to easily hold square blanks. I stand on the mesh to hold it, and the tubing keeps them from spinning. I use the drill and the pointing tool. you can make it more like a stationary machine, but this is fast, and I only need them occasionally for gardening or concrete work. there are ideas on you tube. if you have a chop/miter saw, it can be set at 45° and quickly rotate the stake to do four points. do not cut you forearm. :o :) 8)
Instead of 3 month stakes, those look like 10 to 15 year stakes. Beautiful too.
Last week my colleague pounded in stakes in a layer of aggregate. Client wanted steel pins instead so removed all the 1x1 1/2 stakes. Good reason to make a simple jig and resaw them. Quite busy last times so still haven't made stakes out of my flints etc.
I just tried a simple 5 minute jig to test or it's worth the time to make a more profi one. It works surprisingly fast. I found out that a square stake is easier to shape. For a 1 x 1.5 stake I have to adjust the jig.
For a new jig I should make a kind of shield of wiper/pusher to make sure the small cutoffs can't get launched by the blade.
Old stakes
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53550/F9BB1BDF-08D3-4319-B9DA-3B3C3FDA22D3.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643493747)
The Mc Gyver jig
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53550/ECCAA1A3-19A0-4B68-830D-A3FCD6114DC4.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643493778)
I make my points with an axe. We get free stakes til the supply runs out, but they're too long. I like 30" stakes, so I saw the points off to use as hubs, then resharpen them with the axe. Amusingly, due to the angle of attack, I put a bevel on the points, and they screw in when you pound them. If you're very particular about the way they face, you have to start it at a ~45° offset :^D