I got my new 25" planer in and been using a mdf board on my 20" planer to flatten the first side but looking now at flattening on mill like some of you do. On the bi metal blades you use what size do you find best to use?
I have tried several different metal bands. However, without question, the best is the WM carbide. If not used for routine sawing, but just used for flattening one side of a slab, it will last for hundreds of slabs, and more than pay for itself. Also, you don't need to flatten the whole slab, side to side, full face, but only need to get a good, continuous "skid mark" more than 8 inches wide, from one end of the slab to the other. Then simply put this skid mark down on the planer bed for the first pass, and it will stabilize the slab and feed it flat though the planer. Ball game.
Quote from: YellowHammer on May 28, 2021, 08:18:26 AM
I have tried several different metal bands. However, without question, the best is the WM carbide. If not used for routine sawing, but just used for flattening one side of a slab, it will last for hundreds of slabs, and more than pay for itself. Also, you don't need to flatten the whole slab, side to side, full face, but only need to get a good, continuous "skid mark" more than 8 inches wide, from one end of the slab to the other. Then simply put this skid mark down on the planer bed for the first pass, and it will stabilize the slab and feed it flat though the planer. Ball game.
This is exactly what we've been doing lately, and it works great for anything that will go thru the planer. We ordered a Woodmizer carbide 2 months ago, still don't have it, but the turbo 7s work pretty good.
Quote from: YellowHammer on May 28, 2021, 08:18:26 AM
I have tried several different metal bands. However, without question, the best is the WM carbide. If not used for routine sawing, but just used for flattening one side of a slab, it will last for hundreds of slabs, and more than pay for itself. Also, you don't need to flatten the whole slab, side to side, full face, but only need to get a good, continuous "skid mark" more than 8 inches wide, from one end of the slab to the other. Then simply put this skid mark down on the planer bed for the first pass, and it will stabilize the slab and feed it flat though the planer. Ball game.
smiley_thumbsup
Quote from: YellowHammer on May 28, 2021, 08:18:26 AM
I have tried several different metal bands. However, without question, the best is the WM carbide. If not used for routine sawing, but just used for flattening one side of a slab, it will last for hundreds of slabs, and more than pay for itself. Also, you don't need to flatten the whole slab, side to side, full face, but only need to get a good, continuous "skid mark" more than 8 inches wide, from one end of the slab to the other. Then simply put this skid mark down on the planer bed for the first pass, and it will stabilize the slab and feed it flat though the planer. Ball game.
Just to make sure before I order, is it the Razortip carbide 7° that you like?
I see where Boonesyard has been waiting for his awhile now on his, I have some Kasco 4° that I will try while I'm waiting.
I use the 7 razor tip carbide from WM fo the same thing. I also use the7/39 bimetal and it does a good job also.
Do you guys have to make sure the blade is completely in the wood or are you able to skim the surface as a planer would? If a carbide will do that, I will buy one just to use for that, but I don't want to have to give up a whole kerf of wood.
I usually find I am pulling off part veneer. it will get a some veneer and some just sawdust, I count on loosing 1/8 or more. I have started sawing the maple at 2&5/8" as character Sugar Maple moves.
The carbide blade is a little fatter than a regular blade , just my opinion as I have never really measured them.
I would expect to lose thickness at the higher spots, but I'd hate to lose a saw kerf at the lowest spot.
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on June 06, 2021, 10:45:33 AM
I would expect to lose thickness at the higher spots, but I'd hate to lose a saw kerf at the lowest spot.
What I find works fairly well is to place the slab on the bed, check it for rock, then using thin wedges try and halve the rock. For thin wedges I use the thin end of shingles I cut for a roof and siding for a vegie stand.
Then measure a number of points and decide on where to set the blade height. If you make a mistake you will either take too much off or you get a second chance at trying again.
Had a customer that wanted two cherry slabs sawed down the middle. He was sure they were flat.
Once on the bed of the mill the rock convinced him they were not flat.
When he left they were flat and a smidge thinner than what he originally wanted.
Note: Go slow when taking the least possible as many times only one side of the blade is seeing action, this could affect the tooth set on one side.
If a slab is not flat or mostly flat on the side against the planner like YH said then it is potato chip in and not quite as curly potato chip out.
GAB
The 4 degree works best for me. I position the blade and sight down the slab by eye to find the right spot to start from.
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When taking thin cuts slow is the key like GAB said. If the blade is only touching the slab side, it will affect the blade set.
It seems like some blade manufacturer could make a blade designed for this operation.
@WDH (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=4370) you eyeballed that one real good.
I usually go with the attitude that I can take two cuts if I start too high.
Adding now that is a different situation. I think that equipment for adding has been on back order since Noah's time.
GAB
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on June 08, 2021, 07:41:13 AM
It seems like some blade manufacturer could make a blade designed for this operation.
The Woodmizer Carbide blade, while not being designed works well from @YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) reports. We had this discussion awhile back in the Flattening Slabs on the Mill Topic (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=111499.msg1745958#msg1745958). The carbides hold an edge better in the harder kiln dried wood and the set is not as important as it is with the normal double hards.
Quote from: DWyatt on June 08, 2021, 09:05:48 AM
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on June 08, 2021, 07:41:13 AM
It seems like some blade manufacturer could make a blade designed for this operation.
The Woodmizer Carbide blade, while not being designed works well from @YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) reports. We had this discussion awhile back in the Flattening Slabs on the Mill Topic (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=111499.msg1745958#msg1745958). The carbides hold an edge better in the harder kiln dried wood and the set is not as important as it is with the normal double hards.
I agree the carbide is the best choice.
At some point, someone has to create a planer head that can be attached to the sawmill bed?
And just brainstorming...
A planer/jointer with a fixed bed that the planer head moves along the rails jointing the top of the slab, then flip the slab and plane to thickness.
Of course, a swing type mill already has this ability. It could be less expensive to use one of those . Or call the operator in for a day to flatten the slabs for you.
Quote from: metalspinner on June 08, 2021, 11:13:22 AM
And just brainstorming...
A planer/jointer with a fixed bed that the planer head moves along the rails jointing the top of the slab, then flip the slab and plane to thickness.
Isn't that what the Woodmizer MP100 does?
I had unsatisfactory results with metal blades when slab flattening. For me, they would push off and leave a little curve.
The carbides are at a different level of capability, they skim well, and also do submerged cuts well.
Sure wish I had my carbide. When I last talked to Woodmizer and ordered another box of 7's and checked on my carbide, he said they were up to 12-15 weeks out on the carbide blades. I guess they come from some other manufacturer.
machinebuilder
Yep! Just looked it up. The max width is 20 1/2", though.
The price seems affordable, though.
Quote from: YellowHammer on May 28, 2021, 08:18:26 AM
I have tried several different metal bands. However, without question, the best is the WM carbide. If not used for routine sawing, but just used for flattening one side of a slab, it will last for hundreds of slabs, and more than pay for itself. Also, you don't need to flatten the whole slab, side to side, full face, but only need to get a good, continuous "skid mark" more than 8 inches wide, from one end of the slab to the other. Then simply put this skid mark down on the planer bed for the first pass, and it will stabilize the slab and feed it flat though the planer. Ball game.
Having switched to almost ALWAYS using carbide, I have observed that the probability of hitting metal increases exponentially when putting a new one on, especially if you are using it on walnut. :(
The other day I was sawing a big log and on a single cut near the heart, I hit four (4) 5/8 or 3/4" lag bolts and a strip of concrete. I heard the blade complain, especially on the 2nd and third, but exited ok and cut them cleanly. :-\
Would you knowingly mill a log with metal in it with the carbide blades? Is it worth it? That is, will the blade cut some metal and still continue to perform well for a reasonable amount of time? I've got a few partially milled logs put aside where I already hit metal in them and am debating getting a carbide blade to mill them as they are higher value logs.
Quote from: stanmillnc on June 18, 2021, 07:13:59 AM
Would you knowingly mill a log with metal in it with the carbide blades? Is it worth it? That is, will the blade cut some metal and still continue to perform well for a reasonable amount of time? I've got a few partially milled logs put aside where I already hit metal in them and am debating getting a carbide blade to mill them as they are higher value logs.
Did you not dig the metal out of them? I get the chainsaw out and plunge cut to get the metal out. I figure they can put an electrical plug in the table top. I have Carbides hanging on the wall that are metal strikes. I hate throwing them away. Lots of time they had finnished the cut reasonably well. But I have always had to change them. I have run them through the sharpener, but they still do not cut well, you just go slower is what my neighbour says, he will run his with a bunch of teeth missing, the odd one will saw well again.
I would rather run a resharp, or new cheaper blade if I know there is a good chance of metal.
Quote from: stanmillnc on June 18, 2021, 07:13:59 AM
Would you knowingly mill a log with metal in it with the carbide blades? Is it worth it?
No. I would absolutely not.
Much better to trash conventional, low cost bands, then resharpen and reset the teeth that are left, and reuse them.
I just received a response from Woodmizer regarding carbide blade availability. We ordered one on March 30 to try for slab flattening and just received this, "We are currently out of materials to make carbide blades. The vendor we use has been back ordering our shipments from New York. There is no definite time for completion of the order, although blade production projects late October 2021".
Just an FYI for anyone thinking about ordering carbide.
Quote from: boonesyard on June 22, 2021, 11:48:03 AM
I just received a response from Woodmizer regarding carbide blade availability. We ordered one on March 30 to try for slab flattening and just received this, "We are currently out of materials to make carbide blades. The vendor we use has been back ordering our shipments from New York. There is no definite time for completion of the order, although blade production projects late October 2021".
Just an FYI for anyone thinking about ordering carbide.
I order one also. Anyone one else we might try?
Not that I'm aware of. Sound like the supplier out of New York distributes the carbide product all over.
I used my new .55 1.5" 7/39 turbo on this large EWP slab last week. It is 5" thick. I KD for the customer long with a few other logs and slabs. I have been involved with this tree for 1.5 years now. He kept me in buisness my 1st year running the kiln.
1st had to cut the slab down to 33" and then I split it at 2.5", so 2 3/8'
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when finnished. I then wrapped it and took to the Furniture table builder.
That is going to be spectacular.
Nothing wrong with that.
Quote from: boonesyard on June 22, 2021, 11:48:03 AM
I just received a response from Woodmizer regarding carbide blade availability. We ordered one on March 30 to try for slab flattening and just received this, "We are currently out of materials to make carbide blades. The vendor we use has been back ordering our shipments from New York. There is no definite time for completion of the order, although blade production projects late October 2021".
Just an FYI for anyone thinking about ordering carbide.
WM just email me my bill on the blade, hope they are sending it on now.
We received our blade last week. Haven't had a chance to try it out yet, looking forward to it. Looks interesting