Not sure how or when I tore my meniscus in my right knee. The MRI yesterday showed what is a pretty bad tear. Been nursing it since May.
The orthopedic doctor has me on limited activity until we figure out the next steps. She fussed at me a little trying to help me understand what she meant by limited activity lol It's not my nature and she figured that out very quickly.
So sawmilling is off the table. I had to postpone jobs this week and next. Probably off of sawing until next year.
Doctor Emily is carrying most of my share of heavy chores. God blessed me with a good woman.
With torn meniscus, they often just go in and cut away the bad part and that relieves most of the pain. 20 years ago I split my tibia in half like a piece of firewood and then the broken piece cut my meniscus in half. The cut off piece of meniscus fell down inside my bone. They were able to put it all back together and sew the meniscus back together. They said that I was young enough for the meniscus to heal, but much older and it would never grow back together. It's doing pretty good so far, but I still expect to have arthritis or replacement. I have heard of replacing meniscus with cadaver tissue and some sort of artificial meniscus. Good luck Ted. I hope they get it fixed soon.
That is tough but there comes a time when us high energy types have to start slowing down and pacing ourselves. Otherwise we end up bent, spindled and mutilated. Have you got hobbies you can pursue to keep yourself occupied and out of the boss' hair?
Hobbies that don't require standing walking or otherwise stepping up and down etc? Hunting and fishing probably won't work. Nor will woodworking. I'm pretty good at drinking beer....lollol
I do paint a bit. I suspect that hobby will get more time for a while. I read a good bit now and smoking meat is pretty sedentary although the cholesterol consequences may be bad lol
I'm sorry to hear this, I hope you are able to get it fixed and recover quickly.
What kind of fishing requires your knees? You have a boat, it has chairs. :D
Southside I'll leave these here. Not really extreme but I suspect the Doctor doesn't consider these "limited" activity :D
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Last year
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Last week
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December 2019 pre COVID-19
Sorry to hear this
Get yourself feeling better Sir
While you are recovering you could offer a class in hardwood lumber identification for dummies like me that failed your test! I'm sure some of us would be willing to pay for that.😁
Sorry for the tear. We high energy types have a tough time adjusting to sedentary practices. Hope it heals fast.
Tore mine last November. After initial pain and swelling, had 2 more flare ups. In July had MRI, results showed tear and 2 other issues. Putting surgery off till after deer season. Ran mill yesterday, taking it real careful!
Good luck with your surgery and recovery!
Quote from: Patrick NC on October 16, 2021, 06:45:14 AM
While you are recovering you could offer a class in hardwood lumber identification for dummies like me that failed your test! I'm sure some of us would be willing to pay for that.😁
Boy I wish I were the expert you imagine that I am! :) There are others here who are trained experts. I'm just a "retired pert." ;D
Well the problem is obvious Ted. The fish you catch are too dang big! :D
Good luck with the recovery!!
That is a tough thing. I had a torn meniscus and it was quite painful. I got tired of nursing it and went and got scoped. They trimmed up the tear, and vacuumed out all the floating around crud in my knee joint. Three little holes for the incisions.
After about a week on limited activity post surgery I was back working again. Pain was mostly gone and faded a little while later. The surgery was no big deal. It was a walk in outpatient surgery, and I was walking again within hours. I had a buddy who had the same surgery and was back coaching his kids ball team the same afternoon.
Sorry to read this Ted. Sitting around recovering can be a lot harder than any 'work'. Maybe you can find a poject you have been putting off, like web page work, re-organizing your books, Catching up on reading or studying tree books or lumber stuff. Think about it, you should be able to find something.
I can tell you when I read this last night I was in miserable pain from handling overweight slabs yesterday. Hearing your plight put it in perspective for me. Still in enough pain now that I won't/can't saw today but I know this will pass eventually. Wishing you the best for a speedy recovery and repair.
Maybe it is mother nature's way of telling you you need to study the inside of your eyelids for pinhole leaks.
GAB
Quote from: GAB on October 16, 2021, 10:19:57 AM
Maybe it is mother nature's way of telling you you need to study the inside of your eyelids for pinhole leaks.
GAB
My wife says "breathe"....
Quote from: SawyerTed on October 16, 2021, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: GAB on October 16, 2021, 10:19:57 AM
Maybe it is mother nature's way of telling you you need to study the inside of your eyelids for pinhole leaks.
GAB
My wife says "breathe"....
You should be able to do both at the same time.
GAB
Tore one of mine working on a cow 10 fought it for 2 or 3 years. Had it scoped not good as new but serviceable. I think the deer hunting and fishing would be good activities for rest. One of those electric bikes to get you to the blind and back. Duck hunting is a good activity for rest too. It's pretty sedentary. Good luck with the wheel.
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Quote from: sawguy21 on October 15, 2021, 09:20:38 PM
Otherwise we end up bent, spindled and mutilated.
That would be me. :)
It takes me forever to do anything, but fortunately I have forever.
Now, you take it easy and heal up because catfish.
The bone doc will tell you the meniscus repair will fix it, but not like new. Depending on how much he/she trims, the repair is temporary. Don't wait too long on the knee replacement when the pain returns. Replacement will fix the knee, but the leg muscles will not understand the changes. My knee is fine, but leg muscles may never catch up. Good Luck!
I tore meniscus in both knees in a car accident in 1985 , the left one was fixed the same year . i put off the right one for 20years ,should have done it sooner the day after surgery it felt better than it had in years .The only issues I've had is some stiffness in my knees when I stay still to long .Walking 5-10 miles a day helps more than anything else .Hope and pray for fast recovery .
knees suck! I more than feel your pain sir! I completely tore my ACL and MCL 9 years ago at same time.. 2 surgeries later and it still isn't right.. I can do everything but sprint and jump alot.. never have or will trust my knee again. it lets you know when it is time to slow down sometimes now..
that was a long recovery..
get better, order that laser for your mill.. it will give you something to tinker with! sharpen up all your bands you have , clean up stuff... order up your maintenance parts and be ready for when you heal up.
Michelle had a partial replacement this spring, that went really well. She did her pt, there is a stationary bike in the living room with mileage on it. She goes in for the hip tomorrow, that is going to take awhile.
Quote from: sealark37 on October 16, 2021, 01:56:09 PM
The bone doc will tell you the meniscus repair will fix it, but not like new. Depending on how much he/she trims, the repair is temporary. Don't wait too long on the knee replacement when the pain returns. Replacement will fix the knee, but the leg muscles will not understand the changes. My knee is fine, but leg muscles may never catch up. Good Luck!
I tore the meniscus in both knees in my 20's and had the tears repaired. Eventually my knees failed and I had the first replacement this past March and second replacement is scheduled for November. I'm an avid mt biker (mike belben rode with me when he was still in MA) and after 3 months of rehab was back out on the trails. I have a trainer set up in the house I'm on twice a day.
Did follow up with the doctor today. Arthroscopic surgery is next.
We talked about everything from doing nothing to knee replacement. We even discussed some recent "alternative" treatments. Arthroscopy is the best choice at this point. My knee is otherwise completely healthy besides a bad tear in the medial meniscus.
Traditional sawmilling is out but I did something different on Saturday. My best customer was on the schedule for sawing. So I took the mill and "coached" him through sawing his own logs for 2/3 of my normal hourly rate. I got to sit and point a lot.
He made around 600 board feet with no major mistakes. I'll likely be doing this again with him as I recover. I won't be doing this with just any customers but it worked with him.
Quote from: SawyerTed on October 18, 2021, 07:47:15 PM
So I took the mill and "coached" him through sawing his own logs for 2/3 of my normal hourly rate. I got to sit and point a lot.
Was he beside himself with excitement that he got to run your mill???
If that had happened to me, I'd be grinning ear to ear the entire time.
He really enjoyed it for sure. Afterwards he did say he appreciates the difference in experience. While he comes from a family of lumbermen, he recognized its not as easy as it looks.
Quote from: SawyerTed on October 18, 2021, 09:15:33 PM
He really enjoyed it for sure. Afterwards he did say he appreciates the difference in experience. While he comes from a family of lumbermen, he recognized its not as easy as it looks.
Many do not have any idea how much thinking is involved.
GAB
He probably would've paid 1 and 1/3 of your regular rate, for getting to run the mill😁
Sorry to hear of the knee issue. Sounds like you have a great attitude and a wonderful wife to support ya! I wish you the best on your journey to recovery.
Thank you for all the kind replies and for the advice and encouragement from those who have been through this.
Been there, done that. Hope it goes well. Mine did for many years, then had 3 knee replacements in 14 months!! Tomorrow is the 6 month check up on the last one. My Doc knew "our" type and told me don't be stupid! Lucky my mill is hydraulic, works good sawing from a chair if you have some good help.
@SawyerTed (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=38503) Are those Sun Drop cans in that cooler?
Yes, Sundrop is one of my vices.
Have patience and allow nature and the doctors to get you healed. Praying for you and a speedy recovery.
Everybody is different, so I can only tell you my situation. The meniscus thins out with age, it starts to tear very easily. It's a fact of getting older. I had my hip replaced in 2014 and my knee hurt even then. So I'm not afraid of that track and I was told I would need a new knee in 3 years, or 2017. However, I'm still on my real knee. I even went to a surgeon and could barely walk for the pain in my knee, years ago. I wanted to try everything. I had the Scope surgery. I started physical therapy with a "real" physical therapist, not a 25 year old, just out of school, hospital cookie cutter one. I also got an injection in my knee to get the swelling down. Due to the pain, my muscles has stopped properly aligning my knee, and I was bone on bone anyway. The more I walked, the more pain I was in, the weaker my muscles got, and the more pain I was in. I eventually got to the point where I could not sit on a 5 gallon bucket and stand up straight up without using my hands. My weak muscles were putting much more load on my joints and making matters worse.
There were two options. Get a new knee and build up my muscles again, or do everything I could and build up my muscles again despite the pain, and hopefully the pain will start to go away.
Before long, my knee, while still hurting, started working better. Part of physical therapy is doing stairs, which was not fun. However, at my 3 month followup, the doctor walked in the office, folder in hand, and opened with, "Well I just don't see how we can avoid surgery, your old X ray is a mess." I exclaimed, "Not so fast, I walked up the 3 flights of stairs to your office, and my knee feels good, not great, but good." He was shocked. That was years again. He X rayed me again, my joint was lining up correctly, my pain was down. No, I can't run without it hurting, that's too much.
I have settled down to a few basic exercises every day. I slowly walk up and down 10 flights of stairs every day, in my barn, before I do anything. Doing steps was part of my original PT, and I still do it. 160 stair steps, every day. It doesn't sound like much, but for a guy with a bum knee, it sure taxes my will. However, about halfway through, my quadriceps start to burn (one of the major knee alignment muscles, indicating its still weak, but getting stronger), and my knee starts to warm up, and the knee pain starts to go away for most of the day. I also do a couple basic stretching exercises, and that's it. I am also very careful on it.
I'm doing all this with my Doctor intently watching. My physical therapist supervisor, who is a physician in the same practice "Sports Med of Huntsville" says she rarely sees a person continue the PT, although, in some people, like me, it does wonders.
Anyway, I know at some point I will need a new knee, who know, maybe in a couple months, who knows? But not right now. However, as others have said, joint replacement that come with its own issues, just as my titanium hip has.
So, my advice, which means nothing, is to take it conservatively, step by step.
I appreciate hearing others's experiences with knee trouble and so many full or nearly full recoveries. Other than this knee pain I'm otherwise a healthy and active 59 years young. We just got new electric pedal assist bicycles I've been dying to try out. Living with this pain isn't a viable option nor is continuing this slug-like limited activity 5h1t. :(
Yellowhammer, the doctor has described the thinning of the meniscus as we age. She also talked about the fraying of the thin edges of the meniscus. Apparently the MRI shows a complex tear of the body of the medial meniscus, meaning the tear is actually two tears starting from the same location and going two directions. The edges are intact. She anticipates the surgeon will do a repair rather than remove the torn area. But the surgeon will make that decision during the arthroscopy. The surgeon is one of the best knee doctors in our area. He fixed this knee 25 years ago when I had some issues from an injury when I was an "indestructible" adolescent.
PT is coming right after the surgery. Everything is set for Thursday's surgery. Pt will be a week from Friday. They seemed anxious to get it scheduled. I'm thinking there's a masochistic slant to that business. My Dad had to go through PT a few times over the last few years. He calls it pain and torture.....lol
This bout of knee pain has been off and on for about 10 or 12 months. I tried to keep my normal activity level for as long as I could. The last six months has progressively gotten worse. Over the six months I did exercises the doctor prescribed and cortisone shots. We took a conservative approach but the knee got worse. Up until October 2nd I've done everything as normal. That day I did a good bit of solo sawing. On the drive home the pain was excruciating. I've gone through some painful stuff before including kidney stones. My knee pain is significant (not the "I think I'm going to die" kidney stone pain) but significant.
My wife encouraged me to do something about it so here I am.
As far as sawing goes, I've had to reschedule or postpone several jobs. A few others I've turned down completely and suggested some other area sawyers. A few have called back to say they will wait for me. As best I can tell that means at least 14 jobs of a half day or more on the books for after my recovery.
I've gotten no indication on how long recovery to "sawing form" might take. I'm guessing a few weeks. Maybe I'll be in fishing condition in a couple weeks,
Before and After my back surgery I went to Work Hardening Physical Therapy . . it was very brutal !
My knee pain experience is much like Yellowhammer (for me).
Several years back, knee pain mentioned to my Dr. brought the comment "we can replace the knee anytime you want". Three years ago, the Orthopedics clinic started some "joint seminars" where the joint surgeries were presented by four Dr.s.
Key for me was they talked about movement/exercise. I discovered the stair exercises that helped the knee pain. But sleeping at night the pain kept me awake. Tried foam pads, etc. and didn't want to take Advil more than one a day.
Had tightness in the upper leg muscle and experimented with a random orbital sander as a vibrator. That was over a year ago, and may (or may not) be why I do not have any major pain in my knees. Still bone on bone.
First consulting visit to the Ortho Doc in July with X-rays resulted in a scheduled right knee replacement Dec. 1. Pre-surgery visit 2 weeks ago and was asked how the pain was in each knee. Said I really don't have pain, just some stiffness after setting. Both the Dr. and PAC asked me why I was going for a replacement. Answered that I thought I understood that was the only option to "bone on bone" so planned it after deer hunting season.
Then I heard the explanation that in a study of knee replacements, 19% had pain after the surgery. So it wasn't a cure-all for knee pain.
The Dec. 1 joint replacement surgery was cancelled.
I continue to use the orbital sander to massage both knees while sitting in the area just above the knee cap for about 10-15 seconds every night. Remove the sand paper.. :D
Works for me,
I've heard it said the only difference in a terrorist and a physical therapist is you can shoot the terrorist!
It also sounds like your physician knows his stuff, so that's a good part of the battle also, as they are willing to work with you.
I've had some excellent Physical Therapists, and some not good ones. The better ones will make adjustments to my exercises to limit pain. This is what I said about the "cookie cutter PT" places. As my Physician told me, pain in rehab serves no purpose. In contrast, it causes harm as it generates inflammation, which causes an auto immune response from the body, which causes more inflammation and increases recovery time, swollen muscles, aggravated nerves, etc. Proper rehab is just opposite, it triggers endorphins that make you feel better, reduces swelling, increasers alignment, etc. There is a big deference between the PT companies and practices that do it. I will not go to a PT facility unless it is non hospital affiliated (independent) and has at least one PT trained physician on site at all times. Most of the hospital affiliated PT facilities are used as training for fresh PT graduates. Not acceptable to me. All physicians will direct their PT prescription to whichever facility is chosen, whether hospital affiliated or not, and they will do their best to increase healing and decrease pain.
I'm not dogging any body's PT experiences, but I am just stating my own. I have gone through proper and improper PT for several things, and the differences in approach and result for the same conditions is amazing between different facilities.
Also, prior to joint surgery, I requested pre op physical therapy to get a jump start on muscle flexibility and strength. So post surgery PT went extremely well. I knew the exercises, my body knew the exercises, and the trauma was reduced during surgery, especially when the surgeon does full range of motion trials. So I would highly recommend it. Its also one reason I keep up on my exercises, whether I do it in formal PT of at my house. It decreases knee pain, sure, but it also prepares me for surgery with the best chance of a successful outcome as possible.
My Mom has had to knee replacement. First was not good, she ignored PT, didn't put her heart into it. The second one, she knew better, did pre surgery PT, then faithfully did her post surgery PT and the second knee replacement healed in well less than half the time and she was mobile very quickly. Same surgeon, different knee, different outcome.
Again I am very thankful for the kind words, messages and the varied experiences you all have shared.
The surgeon is expecting much improvement. The deed is done. I had carrot cake therapy at lunch. Doctor said don't do much until PT says I can.
I feel pretty good right now
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Wishing you a speedy and painless recovery! 8)
That cake looks good. Glad it worked out. You'll be back at it in no time.
Quote from: YellowHammer on October 28, 2021, 02:30:19 PM
You'll be back at it in no time.
What, eating carrot cake? :D :D
Yep, sometimes ya just gotta flop on the couch, TV remote in one hand and a plate of cake or chips in the other.
In moderation of course. ;) ;D
The neighborhood has been making sure Michelle doesn't starve from my cooking while recovering from the hip job. I had to have 3 desserts but I think we're close to caught back up :D. Only hitch is I've got a DOT physical coming up :'(
Hope she's doing okay. Of course she's been through a much more involved procedure. Hope she recovers quickly and completely! And the physical goes like you want it!
If carrot cake is good, then they supplied you with the very best drugs. :D
Self medicated with the carrot cake. I had to order it when we stopped for lunch on the way home.
Good Luck on your recovery . . follow Doctors orders
Very best to you Ted and Don's wife Michelle. I hope healing is quick and PT not terrible. I hope this day after finds you healing with no or little discomfort.
Ok, I feel like I'm doing pretty well on recovery.
Today I'm up, showered and dressed. Very little pain but still swollen. What pain I have is controlled with OTC meds. No need for crutches or cane and can bend to past 90° without pain. I believe swelling is preventing more range.
It hurts less now than before surgery. I'd call that a step in the right direction. Will know more about sawing on Friday. I don't expect to be back to sawing until December.
Good for you, Sawyer-Ted, I injured my right knee in a motorcycle mishap, had knee surgery a couple of years later. While in recovery, Nurse asked me if my knee hurt I said no because it was the first time in years that I was'nt in pain. Used the crutches and followed Docs orders, took it slow and had a good rehab.I think you are wise to not rush into working at the sawmill full time. Let it heal, the work is'nt going anywhere it will still be there when you heal up. Best of everything
This is great news! Don't rush into something and over do it.
For those who may be interested, the physical therapist gave me three main exercises after an assessment a week ago Friday. She said I was doing amazingly well for just over a week after surgery. She gave me the option to decide if I want to come back. I told her I would do the exercises for a week and decide. I am not going back - exercises are FREE, PT visits no so much $$.
The Dr. took the stitches out last Monday and was pretty shocked to see my range of motion and minimal pain and swelling. She said she didn't believe the PT report at first until she saw my progress for herself. She was quite clear that I needed to wait until the surgeon releases me before I do anything besides the PT exercises and "light duty." I'll see the surgeon in early December.
So I am walking normally most of the time. No limp generally. Walking on uneven surfaces is not good, like across my gravel shop driveway. Going up stairs is no problem, going down I do feel a little tweak of pain. Swelling is minimal and more in the late afternoon.
All in all, today my knee is significantly better than prior to surgery. I'd count that as a success at two and half weeks after surgery.
Quote from: SawyerTed on November 15, 2021, 02:53:51 PM"light duty."
SawyerTed:
Light duty: You need to start with one 8" log x 8'long to get your sawdust fix and your body reacclaimated.
Just one a day until you get that release.
I'd hate to hear you suffered from a sawdust fix withdrawal, that would be bad.
Wishing you the best.
GAB
Glad to hear it is going so well 8)
The signs must have been in the legs. Michelle's hip is doing great, same story with the docs. We were set up for her to be down for the winter. I forgot to oil her up this morning. Last night, I heard the brace squeeking when she came in from a meeting at 9, so driving, good on urban terrain but no 4wd yet. I'm not going to be surprised it she wears the brace out in 6 weeks :D. This morning I saw her step down the stairs normal and gave her a "Hold on!". The pt's had cleared her for normal stair stepping yesterday. As always, I'm last to get the memo ::) ;D
Great news! Congratulations to the leg infirm on their recovery efforts and results! I hope the recovery continues on the progress! Don't over do it or do to much until after the green light.
Don your mention of signs made me smile, I heard that so much growing up.
!
Quote from: GAB on November 15, 2021, 03:28:34 PM
Quote from: SawyerTed on November 15, 2021, 02:53:51 PM"light duty."
SawyerTed:
Light duty: You need to start with one 8" log x 8'long to get your sawdust fix and your body reacclaimated.
Just one a day until you get that release.
I'd hate to hear you suffered from a sawdust fix withdrawal, that would be bad.
Wishing you the best.
GAB
I wish that recommendation would fly with the doctor at home (she is a PhD after all). She would "skin me alive" (there's one for the Sayings and Expressions thread) if she saw me doing anything she doesn't approve. I'm certain she wouldn't approve any sawmill work. I believe she and the female doctor have some sort of "sisterhood alliance" to keep me corralled until the surgeon releases me. It really is probably for my own good.
Don P glad your wife is progressing well. I know it is a relief that she is doing better than expected. If she is anything like me, she's feeling a little stir crazy and wanting to do stuff.
Great News!
Suddenly as though there was a disturbance in "The Force", billions of fish quickly retreated miles and miles from the coast leaving a tsunami in their wake.. :D
Fish tremble at the mention of my name! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: samandothers on October 26, 2021, 11:00:36 AM
I've heard it said the only difference in a terrorist and a physical therapist is you can shoot the terrorist!
When I was doing my PT after my full rotator cuff tear I quickly learned that certain therapists in doing the hands on manipulations were those who knew how to find that "sweet spot that's not so sweet as it hurts" and helped to move me towards full range of movement. Others sort of wiggled my arm and talked to their buddies, so I began asking for certain PT's by name. In HS and college, the best athletic trainers had that same feel gift to get you going again.
Look forward to the days ahead for both patients above! ;D
My knee is "ripening" and likes those cortisone shots-#9 coming up in Dec..
I posted sawing details in Whatcha Sawing 2021 on my sawing yesterday. My son was a suitable substitute on the mill after a bit of coaching.
This morning, the day after" my knee is fine. Still a little sore and swells during the day. But after several hours on my feet yesterday, I'll say my recovery is going just fine.