Now you guys may already do this and I posted this in an earlier reply but for many years I have normally edged the flitches off the cant I cut them from on my LT35. I would typically stage the flitches on the loading arms of my mill with usually no more than 5-6 to saw at the end sawing the log. I'd make my final turn of the cant and start on a mark off my cheat sheet based on the thickness of the lumber I am cutting so I end on a finished board. I'd saw down the cant till it was about 4-5 inches thick and slightly thinner than the width of finished boards from my edged flitches. Example: When sawing 1" boards I might stop when the cant was still 5-1/2" or 4-3/8" when edging to 6" or 3-1/4" if I was sawing down to 4" boards. When I finished edging the flitches I'd remove the finished boards and resume sawing the cant to the rails. I found a stack of flitches on edge tend to flop around when only clamped to a single center point but are much more stable when stood and braced against the width of a long cant supported by 2 or more side supports.
The problem I frequently encountered was when I released the cant from the clamp it would spring up due to tension and most of the weight having been removed. Now what I do when I make my final turn is to clamp the cant tightly as low as I can (less than 1") then I saw the cant completely into boards but I leave the last 3-5 boards on the bed rails of the mill instead of stacking them as they are cut. I raise the side supports to the height of my stack of boards then stand the flitches up against them, clamp tightly and edge them. I get the same rigid support from a stack of the same sized/width boards as I did from the partially sawed cant but I don't have to release the clamp and let the cant spring up.
This is so obvious I don't know why I never thought of it before but now I get the solid support of a cant between the side supports and my flitches without releasing the cant at a critical point when it will not lay flat on the rails again.
When I am sawing with a helper I typically slide finished boards off the cant on to the bed as an indicator they are ready to ready to be stacked. If I do not push the board off the cant it is an indicator I am going to use to for edging support. This takes a little training as a good helper is anxious to grab and stack the boards as soon as they are cut and tend to want to grab the ones I need to edge against until they understand the process and my system better.
If you currently edge against a cant I suggest you try edging against a similar sized stack of sawed boards and see if that does not work just as well and avoids the cant tension issue of unclamping a thin cant.
Will give it a try. Milled a 20' non straight, leaning sweet gum for trailer flooring last week. The remaining cant did just like you described when I released the clamp for edging. Thanks for posting.
Yep, sounds just like mine. A heavy cant will lay flat real good when you put it on the mill. If you put it on and clamp it low it will sit there while you saw all the boards off but once you release it, it will spring up and you are going to end up with at least one board that is damaged or defective. I think I have seen where folks would weld a tooth on their clamp to bite into the cant then pull it down. I'm sort of surprised the mills don't design them that way but I guess they think that would damage the boards. I'm finding it is much easier to just edge against a stack of boards and I can adjust the stack lower and lower if I need to edge narrower flitches.
This combined with your other thread from 2016 on the same topic has been enormously helpful to me. Thank you
I don't know where I first read about edging against a cant but it was somewhere on this forum. I liked the idea and have done it for years but don't know why it took me this long to realize a stack of boards provides the same support.
Often if the cant is tall enough I edge flitches against the cant and saw boards from the cant simultaneously.
Ted,
I have often made my stickers that way when cutting 4/4 lumber. I'll stack several flitches against the cant and saw in 1" drops and every cut produces a board and as many stickers as I have flitches standing beside it. The flitches may run out and would not produce a full length board but are long enough for good clean flitches stickers.
That solves the very annoying problem of the stickers falling off the side of the sawmill.
TT,
How does it do that? ??? Do you mean because the board holds them in place?
Once the cant humps up in the middle, sometimes someone can stand on it, push it back down and reclamp it. I have used a pipe clamp to pull it down.
OR
If that fails, mill off the horns and hump
OR
Turn the hump down, block up the far end so the near end lies on the bunks, mill to the middle and stop. Then reverse the blocking to near end putting far end down on the bunk and continue milling to the end. I ve done this a lot on resawing jobs. Not fun, but works, Sometimes.
OR
Cut cant in half and make short boards.
I've tried pushing down on the cant but usually saw alone and pulling even a 4-5 inch thick cant down with a pipe clamp is a lot of time and effort spend. I'm finding just sawing to the rails then using the boards to edge against for the flitches is working better for me.
Maybe WM or the other mill makers will design a hydraulic ram that press down on the middle of the cant and holds it in place while we clamp it. If they do and it makes any money maybe they will send us some of it. :D
I bet if the Magic Man would quit worrying about his deer food plots and set his mind to it he could solve this problem for us all. Maybe there is another way to use our Magichook to do this. Put the chain on the side of the mill and the hook over the loading arms and lower them and maybe that would do the trick? :P
EDIT: BTW - I must confess, cutting stickers and boards at the same time can get tricky as it is hard to clamp a bunch of thin flitches tightly so cutting stickers and boards at the same time can prevent you from being able to clamp the cant tightly which was a major part of starting this thread so be properly advised. It works fine on stable cants like most softwoods but a springy hardwood clamp cant may not be your best choice for cutting sticker against. Just wanted to be sure we mentioned that in the spirit of complete disclosure.
Quote from: SawyerTed on October 29, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
Often if the cant is tall enough I edge flitches against the cant and saw boards from the cant simultaneously.
Ted,
I neglected to comment about this but I almost never do this because I typically saw my boards into widths of 2" increments and my cants are at off fractional thicknesses so this does not work well for me.
Even if I am sawing true 2" boards I set my SimpleSet to 2-1/8" drops so the dimensions get out of whack immediately.
My true 4/4 lumber I make in 1-1/8" drops so same problem. When edging I set my SS to true 1" drops and make a cut and when i see a clean edge I flip the flitch to the other side and remove when in 2" increments. I very seldom saw odd width lumber.
I see what you mean when sawing framing lumber. I saw a considerable amount of random width hardwood so it workouts.
I generally saw in 2" standard widths to make stacking and tally easier.
Quote from: Sixacresand on October 29, 2021, 08:52:45 AM
Will give it a try. Milled a 20' non straight, leaning sweet gum for trailer flooring last week. The remaining cant did just like you described when I released the clamp for edging. Thanks for posting.
WV can I ask a question about the WM multi plane clamp ( I think that is the right name)? Will it not pull a bowed up cant back down against the bunk if clamped just higher than 1" and then lowered? That would be a good innovation if they would do that.
Ken,
I have a singe hydraulic clamp in the middle of my mill that clamps the cant against the moveable side supports and the permanent dogs. I think my permanent dogs are 5/8" high. I can squeeze the clamp tightly against the cant then try to lower it and if it is not on the rails in the middle and sometimes I can pull it down a small amount but is a crap shoot. There is just as good a chance the clamp will slide down the cant and come free especially when you are trying to clamp low enough to still have the blade pass 1" above the rails when cutting 4/4 boards.
The softer the wood being sawed the more likely it will pull free. Also remember when you clamp too tightly you increase the likelihood the cant will twist up or spring free on the back side. You want it snug but not too tight and it takes practice to find that happy median including a fair share of thin cants that pull free and an occasional broken blade when one does before you find that point.
It is all part of paying your dues like sawing into the side supports, leaving the side supports down when you load a log or leaving a toeboard up and sawing a long wedge.
If the clamp had a tooth in it (and some people have added one) it would bite into the cant better and help you pull down such a wayward cant but it would also leave a hole in every dog board.
What we need is some sort of bar that goes across the bowed cant to pull it down till it is clamped then a way to move the bar out of the sawing path. That is what others posted about a helper standing on the middle of the cant or pulling it down with a pipe clamp or such till it is clamped then remove the extra weight or the clamp. That is a lot of work and time for one more 4/4 board that is going to have tension in it anyway.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 29, 2021, 10:30:32 PM
Ken,
I have a singe hydraulic clamp in the middle of my mill that clamps the cant against the moveable side supports and the permanent dogs. I think my permanent dogs are 5/8" high. I can squeeze the clamp tightly against the cant then try to lower it and if it is not on the rails in the middle and sometimes I can pull it down a small amount but is a crap shoot. There is just as good a chance the clamp will slide down the clamp and come free especially when you are trying to clamp low enough to still have the blade pass 1" above the rails when cutting 4/4 boards.
The softer the wood being sawed the more likely it will pull free. Also remember when you clamp too tightly you increase the likelihood the cant will twist up or spring free on the back side. You want it snug but not too tight and it takes practice to find that happy median including a fair share of thin cants that pull free and an occasional broken blade when one does before you find that point.
It is all part of paying your dues like sawing into the side supports, leaving the side supports down when you load a log or leaving a toeboard up and sawing a long wedge.
If the clamp had a tooth in it (and some people have added one) it would bite into the cant better and help you pull down such a wayward cant but it would also leave a hole in every dog board.
What we need is some sort of bar that goes across the bowed cant to pull it down till it is clamped then a way to move the bar out of the sawing path. That is what others posted about a helper standing on the middle of the cant or pulling it down with a pipe clamp or such till it is clamped then remove the extra weight or the clamp. That is a lot of work and time for one more 4/4 board that is going to have tension in it anyway.
Thanks Howard for the reply. My Cook's (and everyone else's) has what they call a bird's mouth on the stops to help hold cants down on the bed so I can't pull cants down either. I usually lay a beam or heavy board on top of bowed cants to hold them down until clamped. That works fairly well.
What we need is something that puts weight on the top, not pulling down from one side even if you had a tooth in it. A ram pushing down holding the cant till the clamp was tightened then the ram removed would work great but what would it mount on/hook to?
Clamping while the cant is heavy and its natural weight holding it down is what I am now doing and that is helping and why I started this post.
I have been there and have had cants to pop up and out of the clamp several many times.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0375.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1366846513)
I carried this bad boy with me for years and even used it a few times. That was before I realized that those cants are not worth sawing anyway. They are a recipe for thick & thin lumber. Bad cants can make bad lumber and are better used for stickers or just throwing on the 'customers' pile to do with as he wishes.
Lynn,
That is what I was talking about when I made the comment below in post number 15. The juice just ain't worth the squeeze to spend a lot of time chasing one more low quality board. If we can do it quickly and simply okay but you can cut a lot of boards in the time it takes to install and remove something like a pipe clamp.
"That is a lot of work and time for one more 4/4 board that is going to have tension in it anyway."
Questioning if I did the process correctly for someone with a manual mill. I'm a visual learner :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/62288/PXL_20211031_160155088.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635769926)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/62288/PXL_20211031_160610637_MP.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635769927)
If so, I really like it.
Edging the boards while taking the next board off the cant is something I can really get onboard with 8)
Looks like you have the method figured out. I often will do exactly as you are illustrating, cutting a board on the cant while simultaneously edging some flitches. I only do this if my cant is relatively tall on the top where I can remove some boards without tension causing the cant to move.
Thanks Ted. I'll admit, I was having a hard time following this thread without pics as a newbie.
Quote from: SawyerTed on November 01, 2021, 09:26:38 AM
... without tension causing the cant to move.
This has been discussed in this thread a couple times and I'm not understanding. The cant moves side to side or springs up off the bunks? Please someone explain.
The problem is when the cant springs up off the bunks, due to tension in the cant, when the cant is unclamped.
WV Sawmiller's approach is not to unclamp the cant, thus, holding it from springing up. That way he can saw the cant into boards and not have a top board and bottom board which varies in thickness end to end. The alternative is let the cant spring up and take a trim cut to flatten the cant and keep sawing.
In the end, the tension in the cant turns into either crooked or bowed boards. The end use of the lumber should determine what you saw for either crook or bow.
Some of the springing due to tension can be minimized by sawing technique, rotating the cant 180° when sawing so the tension doesn't cause the cant to spring as much in one direction. The tension can be created by too much sapwood left on one side of the cant during sawing, by a tree that grew next to an open area or by the log having a sweep to it among other issues.
Sawing hardwood for crook rather than bow is another method to minimize the thick and thin boards when the cant moves. It does take some experience and seeing the wood move as you saw it to get a first hand understanding. Most of my hardwood customers prefer straight boards but if they have to choose between crook and bow, they prefer crook. They can joint or saw the crook out. This method turns the cant 90° when tension is showing the cant is springing up off the bunks.
Sometimes it just doesn't matter what you do, the cant is going to move. When they move in multiple directions at the same time can be infuriating.
Note that tension within the cant can/will cause not only the center of the cant to bow up or down but it also can/will cause either or both end(s) to bow upward or downward.
If your sawmill has movable bed rails, it is very important to have them fully supporting the cant from end to end with very minimum overhang.
@SawyerTed (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=38503)
@Magicman (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=10011)
You guys just gave me the "aha" moment I've been waiting for regarding cant bow.
Up until now, I've been frustrated that no matter how many times I adjust everything, the bunks never seem to be aligned with each other. Embarrassingly enough, I never thought such a large chunk of wood could have a bow and not touch the bunks. Now I see that my bunks are fine and the cant is springing when unclamped. Thank you so much for the explanation and walking me through.
I do not have moveable bunks, but I am pretty diligent about minimizing the overhang. When I just cannot minimize it as much as I want, I get crappy lumber. Makes sense.
Thank you gentlemen 8)
Eventually, if you haven't already, you will see a slab curl up as you cut it off the log. Sometimes it may curl up a fraction of an inch and other times it will curl up several inches in extreme cases.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48503/85507768-F028-496E-92A8-18019011DE11.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1586395570)
That is tension in the log. In a log like that the cant may move a considerable amount as you saw. That tension will show up in the lumber. If I continued to saw this log into lumber, the boards would likely bow reflecting the curl of the slab. If I rotate it 90° the boards will likely crook. If I recall this sawing adventure correctly, I was sawing 4x4 or 4x6 dunnage out of firewood logs. I suspect the ends of this cant curled up as Magicman mentioned.
The best thing to do is stop and think about what's happening and how sawing releases that tension. Don't do like I did the first few times and say, "Wow that's amazing!" and keep sawing as usual.
Some woods are extra special. I have seen sweet gum that displayed crook and bow at the same time... Kinda like a propeller. I edged it against the wedge of my splitter and dried it into firewood. It burned like it cut... poorly.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0840.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1274312921)
Or it might do just the opposite and bow up in the center. They will also lay flat and move to the side. I have had them to pinch the band on the far end and actually stop it. When this happens, the drive belt will squall and blue smoke rise. :o
Quote from: SawyerTed on November 01, 2021, 03:47:57 PMThe best thing to do is stop and think about what's happening and how sawing releases that tension. Don't do like I did the first few times and say, "Wow that's amazing!" and keep sawing as usual.
Guilty! Today as a matter of fact!
Appreciate the pictures. Really drives the point home.
I think you're getting/have gotten the hang of it and Ted was spot on in explaining my suggestion is once I make the final turn I clamp lower than the last board I will cut and I do not release the clamp until I have sawed the cant completely into finished boards. I leave a stack of those board on the mill as a "backbone" to edge against, move the side support up against them and stand the flitches up against the other side and saw the bark off the flitches to the width I want/they will provide. As I saw narrower and narrower boards from the flitches closest to the outside of the original log, I remove and stack the boards previously on the cant to adjust the height downward - i.e. I move the finished board out of the way as needed. I still keep enough at all times to provide solid support for the flitches standing on edge. I hope that helps.
Thanks guys for the photos and explanations of the wonky things springy cants can and will do.
I fully admit my technique will often result in a couple of springy finished boards but they are consistent thickness using this process. Placing the bow up and plenty of weight on top while drying will help straighten them but there is no promise they will ever lay completely flat.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 01, 2021, 09:47:52 PMI leave a stack of those board on the mill as a "backbone" to edge against, move the side support up against them and stand the flitches up against the other side and saw the bark off the flitches to the width I want/they will provide.
I really like this approach and I think that was the last piece of the puzzle I was lacking the understanding of so thank you Howard for clearing that up. Unfortunately for my little HM126, it only has a 7in depth of cut, so the stack I can leave on there is somewhat small compared to your setup. It sure beats the way I was doing edging though...one board at a time against tall backstops and constantly adjusting them every cut. Really glad I understand this process now.
I only have a little over an 8" depth of cut so you should be fine. A 6" stack of boards is plenty of support to edge 12-14 inch tall flitches. Good luck. Keep us posted.
Quote from: SawyerTed on November 01, 2021, 03:47:57 PM
Eventually, if you haven't already, you will see a slab curl up as you cut it off the log. Sometimes it may curl up a fraction of an inch and other times it will curl up several inches in extreme cases.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48503/85507768-F028-496E-92A8-18019011DE11.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1586395570)
That is tension in the log. In a log like that the cant may move a considerable amount as you saw. That tension will show up in the lumber. If I continued to saw this log into lumber, the boards would likely bow reflecting the curl of the slab. If I rotate it 90° the boards will likely crook. If I recall this sawing adventure correctly, I was sawing 4x4 or 4x6 dunnage out of firewood logs. I suspect the ends of this cant curled up as Magicman mentioned.
The best thing to do is stop and think about what's happening and how sawing releases that tension. Don't do like I did the first few times and say, "Wow that's amazing!" and keep sawing as usual.
@SawyerTed (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=38503) thanks for allowing me to use your photo.
Many times when flipping to the last side there will be a gap between the bed rail and the cant. ie log stress.
If you take a cut 1/2" higher than Sawyer Ted is showing (1/4" or 3/8" might be enough depending on the gap judgement call), frequently the gap between the bed rails and the cant shrinks, then if you saw down the ends will be thicker than they would have been which results in the ends to middle difference being less. Note: sometimes it does not work to your advantage.
GAB
Gerald,
Thanks for the comment. My proposed technique only works if the cant lays flat on the rails when you make your final turn. If it does not touch all the rails you need to make the trim cuts till it does.
And as to stress I have had slabs and flitches literally jump off the cant when you make the cut. You know you're in trouble then.
Quote from: VB-Milling on November 02, 2021, 06:32:22 AM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 01, 2021, 09:47:52 PMI leave a stack of those board on the mill as a "backbone" to edge against, move the side support up against them and stand the flitches up against the other side and saw the bark off the flitches to the width I want/they will provide.
I really like this approach and I think that was the last piece of the puzzle I was lacking the understanding of so thank you Howard for clearing that up. Unfortunately for my little HM126, it only has a 7in depth of cut, so the stack I can leave on there is somewhat small compared to your setup. It sure beats the way I was doing edging though...one board at a time against tall backstops and constantly adjusting them every cut. Really glad I understand this process now.
On further thought here about the depth of cut issue, if you are edging really wide flitches (say 20"+) you can go ahead and still use the intact cant while it is still 12-14 inches tall, edge the wide flitches, then re-clamp the cant as originally described here. At that stage the cant should have enough weight to lay flat.
I rarely cut boards over 12" wide for most customers (because of their planer width constraints) so edging really wide flitches is not a common occurrence.
Unless a customer asks me to not saw over a particular width then I shoot for the max. I can get.
For one customer this year I sawed some 15, 16, 18, and 20 inch wide boards. His pine logs were huge.
Customers comment was do you know how much those would cost me at the lumber yard?
Mr. Green:
I have on occasion edged boards like you describe, however I find that it is very time consuming.
I prefer that the off bearers stack the boards to be edged in 3 stacks. Narrow, medium, and wide.
Then load them up to 20 (for 1" material) at a time on the millbed and start trimming.
If there is a piece of equipment with forks available stack on skids to reduce handling time with pieces to be edged.
GAB
@GAB (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=18738) no problem on the use of the photo.
If I had been sawing usable lumber the technique "may?" have been different on the log in the photo, I don't know. I was cutting dunnage from firewood logs, so it was mainly four slabs and done. The slab curling up like it did was a bit of a shock. Regardless of shoddy technique for getting stable lumber (I've been a poor example before :D), the photo is certainly a good example of how sapwood can cause stress or tension.
Thank Howard! I finally learned something from you. It's a good technique. I will try it next time I saw.
hugs, Brandi
Quote from: GAB on November 02, 2021, 12:00:01 PM
I prefer that the off bearers stack the boards to be edged in 3 stacks. Narrow, medium, and wide.
Then load them up to 20 (for 1" material) at a time on the millbed and start trimming.
I think there are two approaches now that I understand the process. Your process would be difficult for people without hydraulics like myself. It would be very challenging for me to manually clamp more than, say 4 or 5 boards against the stops and sufficient "slack" be taken out of the boards to ensure no movement. If I had hydraulic clamps, I could definitely see how your method with two people could be faster.
Quote from: Bindian on November 02, 2021, 12:35:53 PM
Thank Howard! I finally learned something from you.
Something besides how to bait limb lines and how to insult a poor Bulldog? :D :D :D
Quote from: VB-Milling on November 02, 2021, 12:44:03 PM
Quote from: GAB on November 02, 2021, 12:00:01 PM
I prefer that the off bearers stack the boards to be edged in 3 stacks. Narrow, medium, and wide.
Then load them up to 20 (for 1" material) at a time on the millbed and start trimming.
I think there are two approaches now that I understand the process. Your process would be difficult for people without hydraulics like myself. It would be very challenging for me to manually clamp more than, say 4 or 5 boards against the stops and sufficient "slack" be taken out of the boards to ensure no movement. If I had hydraulic clamps, I could definitely see how your method with two people could be faster.
VB-Milling:
Even with hydraulics I still need to wiggle the pile to get a proper clamp.
Concerning your statement: "If I had hydraulic clamps" My crystall ball says some day you will.
Cautionary note - the calibration sticker on my crystall ball has expired and I'm having a hard time finding someone to check the calibration and put a new sticker on it.
GAB
I don't have a crystal ball but the sawdust flakes at my sawmill seem to agree with your crystal ball! :D
Quote from: VB-Milling on November 02, 2021, 06:32:22 AMI think that was the last piece of the puzzle I was lacking the understanding
I hate to break the news to you but thinking you understand will only get you to the next log/cant which will teach you another lesson. Each one is an individual unto itself with it's own game plan and is perfectly willing to teach you another lesson.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_1212.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635893283)
You would certainly expect this one to be a bad actor and it was, but I had another today that was perfectly pith centered that had an absolute mind of it's own. I didn't take a picture of the end because it looked good but...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_1210~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635893274)
one end lifted off of the bed rail a half inch. I continued to saw down until there were only three 1" boards left in the cant before flipping it 180° and
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_1211.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635893289)
taking a cut to bring it back true. I only lost one 1" board so no big deal. Sometime you salvage what you can and don't sweat the rest.
The point that I am attempting to make is that this sawing ain't an exact science with textbook rules.
This couldn't have been a more timely lesson...bunks are right next to each other.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/62288/PXL_20211102_204439697.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635895652)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/62288/PXL_20211102_204445267_MP.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635895652)
At some point, the very large cant (14+ inches) must have slipped off the last bunk and started its downward curl as I took boards off the top. Very interesting to see what happens to the cant now that I have an idea what to look for which speaks to @Magicman (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=10011) 's point about continually learning from cant to cant and log to log.
@GAB (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=18738) @SawyerTed (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=38503)
Do your Taro cards have a current calibration? :D
Maybe we should see if there are any FF palm readers :)
Maybe if I get the land I want, I might accessorize it with some orange paint.
I failed to mention it and neither did anyone else, but as a cant rises and you continue to saw, each board will be slightly thicker on that end(s) because they are 'stealing' thickness from the bottom of the cant.
I tried 3 against a cant and was pretty successful. Then I did 6 against the backstops and it went pretty well. This was all for making stickers.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/62288/PXL_20211102_205211508.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635895650)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/62288/PXL_20211102_205214905.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635895650)
Quote from: Magicman on November 02, 2021, 07:44:48 PM
I failed to mention it and neither did anyone else, but as a cant rises and you continue to saw, each board will be slightly thicker on that end(s) because they are 'stealing' thickness from the bottom of the cant.
I saw that in probably 75% of the last boards I've pulled off the bunks, but failed to realize what was happening. I kept chalking it up to my trailer and my rails being less than perfectly aligned. But now that I've added rail adjustment and checked it a hundred times, I'm realizing how the cant's reaction to taking boards off the top is affected the lower boards. Good lesson
Quote from: Magicman on November 02, 2021, 07:44:48 PM
I failed to mention it and neither did anyone else, but as a cant rises and you continue to saw, each board will be slightly thicker on that end(s) because they are 'stealing' thickness from the bottom of the cant.
Mr. Davis:
You are correct.
Another thing to consider is to not have too much unsupported overhang from a bed rail as that can result in droop.
Droop for me has caused thin ends and thick middles except for the last board which is the opposite result.
When turning to the last side I try and slide the cant on the bed rails hoping to slide out any sawdust or bark or whatever might be between the cant and the bed rails which can and will result in thick or thin sawing. (HI Percy)
@VB-Milling (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=52288) I hope we aren't boring you too badly.
GAB
Quote from: VB-Milling on November 02, 2021, 07:40:08 PM
@GAB (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=18738) @SawyerTed (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=38503)
Do your Taro cards have a current calibration? :D
Maybe we should see if there are any FF palm readers :)
Maybe if I get the land I want, I might accessorize it with some orange paint.
I do not have any Taro cards. Do they have anything to do with poi?
I'm not aware of any FF palm reader members. If there are any of you out there please squeak-up.
I wish you the best in acquiring the land you desire. My gut feel is in two to four years prices will be more reasonable.
GAB
Quote from: Magicman on November 01, 2021, 11:10:54 AMIf your sawmill has movable bed rails, it is very important to have them fully supporting the cant from end to end with very minimum overhang.
Yup, I mentioned that overhang back in Reply #24.
Quote from: Magicman on November 02, 2021, 08:15:27 PM
Quote from: Magicman on November 01, 2021, 11:10:54 AMIf your sawmill has movable bed rails, it is very important to have them fully supporting the cant from end to end with very minimum overhang.
Yup, I mentioned that overhang back in Reply #24.
People like me are slow learners and need to hear things more than once. Hopefully I used different words than you did.
Sorry I did not mean to step on your toes.
Gerald
Wow! A couple of impressive comments from seasoned veterans (WDH and Brandi. Brandi don't be taking offense at being called seasoned . It is a term of respect and should be accepted gracefully as intended.) indicating this may be helpful to them. It seems so obvious I was reluctant to post it as I figured most other experienced sawyers were going to comment "You're just now figuring that out? I learned that about the same time I learned how to replace a band."
Gerald - what helper/mill hand? It sounds like you are collecting quite a few flitches before edging and gang edging them. No doubt that is faster but many of us like to edge the flitches off the cant they came from rather letting them accumulate which is especially important when mobile sawing. I think gang edging is more appropriate to a stationary set up.
I admit this is late but because some folks asked I took pictures today and will post and explain here.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2848.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635898871)
The process starts with the final turn of the cant. Note the side supports are completely lowered and the moveable clamp is lowered below the final cut depth, in this case >1" since I am sawing 4/4 boards. (After I took this picture I noted the cant was not on the rail at the end so I lifted and moved it before actually starting to saw). Flitches to be edges are staged on the loading arms. This is a short log which is less likely to have much spring but it was the next one I was sawing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2849.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899119)
Saw the cant to the rails removing the slab and leaving a stack of finished boards. (In this case I see I had 7 boards - the top one is actually a flitch since there is still some bark to be edged off it.)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2850.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899236)
The next step is to raise the side supports against the stack of board, open the clamp on the opposite side and stand the flitches against the stack to edge them. Note that I removed the top flitch and one more board leaving a height of boards at 5" so I can edge safely to 6".
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2851.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899391)
View from the clamp side - flitches are tightly clamped against the stack of boards.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2852.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899468)
Edge the tallest flitch(es) and open the clamp to remove the finished board. Re-clamp any remaining flitches and repeat edging.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2853.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899564)
Note here I removed a couple more boards as I am fixing to edge to 4" so reduced my stack from 5 to 3 boards and lowered th side supports and clamp accordingly to clear them. The known height of the boards makes it handy knowing the height of the clamp and side supports.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2855.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899676)
Edge the final flitch.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2857.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899738)
At the end of the project open the clamp and stack the boards. In this simple case you see an 8", a 6" and a 4" finished board from my 3 flitches I started with.
I know you high production sawyers may scoff and the time and effort expended here but there is a place for it with us smaller portable and hobby sawyers.
I hope this helps clear up the process.
I've tried both edging against the cant as well as edging against the last 2-3 boards from the cant. They both work well, but I feel like I can do just as well and maybe save a little time by putting all of the flitches up. I try to get any that have 1 square edge against the side supports with the square edge down. Clamp the whole pile with the side supports all the way up. I then take a cut that will square up the widest 2-3 cants. Flip them and make a cut at the widest board, let's say 10". This will make 2-3 10" boards to be removed and hopefully square up a couple more flitches to be flipped. Then make and 8" cut. Those 8" boards get laid down flat and the last of the flitches with 1 square edge are placed between them and the clamp for the last cuts of 6" and 4". Hope this makes sense
Quote from: WDH on November 02, 2021, 03:09:58 PM
Quote from: Bindian on November 02, 2021, 12:35:53 PM
Thank Howard! I finally learned something from you.
Something besides how to bait limb lines and how to insult a poor Bulldog? :D :D :D
I'm a blond. Please explain you last statement. If you can.
hugs, Brandi
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 02, 2021, 08:41:19 PM
Wow! A couple of impressive comments from seasoned veterans (WDH and Brandi. Brandi don't be taking offense at being called seasoned . It is a term of respect and should be accepted gracefully as intended.) indicating this may be helpful to them.
Spicy is seasoned.
hugs, Brandi
Quote from: Crossroads on November 02, 2021, 10:38:40 PMI've tried both edging against the cant as well as edging against the last 2-3 boards from the cant. They both work well, but I feel like I can do just as well and maybe save a little time by putting all of the flitches up.
I will support and encourage any method that anyone has regarding various setups that saves them time, headache, or heartburn.
I thought that I was the only 'odd man out' but it seems that I am not. Yes, I tried using a cant and also sawed lumber as a support but I have found it just as easy, faster, and better for me to also just stand the flitches up against the side supports and edge them. I occasionally run into a bad actor, but when that happens, I just get bad with it. :-X
Brandi,
I am the Bulldog (University of Georgia Bulldog) that he insults and I am mostly gray.
Thank you for taking the time @WV Sawmiller (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=28064)
I think this will go a long way in helping some newbies, myself included, on alternate methods of edging.
%^@(&!) system ate my post again,
Lynn,
Correct me if I'm wrong but I bet you are edging more framing lumber that is 1.5"-2" thick. Thick lumber can more readily stand up to be edged without a cant or stack of boards behind them for support. Thinner boards like 4/4 seem to work better for me against a cant or stack of boards for backbone. A stack of 5-6 thinner, say 4/4, flitches clamped in the middle are harder for me to get to stand straight and they want to flop and bounce back and forth as they are sawed than if they are stabilized against a cant or stack of boards.
My clamp needs over 2" of wood to clamp securely. If edging a single 4/4 flitch I have to stand another narrower board or two but beside them. Once I have one squared edge I can use something like a 1X3 laid down flat and clamped against it for solid support the whole length of the flitch. Thanks to Marty Parsons for showing me that technique many years ago.
Another point we have not discussed well is the diameter and length of cant determines how likely it is to raise up due to tension. Short, large diameter cants are much less likely to raise up than long small diameter ones.
Brandi,
Okay we will agree "Seasoned" means "spicy". :D
I edged some dried boards for roof fascia last winter, I sandwiched them between two cants to hold the ends steady.
Quote from: WDH on November 03, 2021, 07:57:59 AM
Brandi,
I am the Bulldog (University of Georgia Bulldog) that he insults and I am mostly gray.
Oh wow. I thought Howard sent that and was referring to me and Fritz. Now I am as confused as Howard talking about me sawing with a fan in my barn.
hugs, Brandi
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 03, 2021, 08:28:02 AM
Okay we will agree "Seasoned" means "spicy". :D
Around here when talking seasoned firewood no spices are involved.
GAB
Quote from: Magicman on November 02, 2021, 06:59:53 PM
Quote from: VB-Milling on November 02, 2021, 06:32:22 AMI think that was the last piece of the puzzle I was lacking the understanding
I hate to break the news to you but thinking you understand will only get you to the next log/cant which will teach you another lesson. Each one is an individual unto itself with it's own game plan and is perfectly willing to teach you another lesson.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_1212.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635893283)
You would certainly expect this one to be a bad actor and it was, but I had another today that was perfectly pith centered that had an absolute mind of it's own. I didn't take a picture of the end because it looked good but...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_1210~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635893274)
one end lifted off of the bed rail a half inch. I continued to saw down until there were only three 1" boards left in the cant before flipping it 180° and
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_1211.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635893289)
taking a cut to bring it back true. I only lost one 1" board so no big deal. Sometime you salvage what you can and don't sweat the rest.
The point that I am attempting to make is that this sawing ain't an exact science with textbook rules.
Please, pardon my ignorance, but I'm still learning what the terms here mean. I barely know how to make this post! In the photo with the offset pith, how would you suggest cutting that? Start with the pith on one side, like in the photo? Top? Bottom?
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 02, 2021, 08:41:19 PM
Wow! A couple of impressive comments from seasoned veterans (WDH and Brandi. Brandi don't be taking offense at being called seasoned . It is a term of respect and should be accepted gracefully as intended.) indicating this may be helpful to them. It seems so obvious I was reluctant to post it as I figured most other experienced sawyers were going to comment "You're just now figuring that out? I learned that about the same time I learned how to replace a band."
Gerald - what helper/mill hand? It sounds like you are collecting quite a few flitches before edging and gang edging them. No doubt that is faster but many of us like to edge the flitches off the cant they came from rather letting them accumulate which is especially important when mobile sawing. I think gang edging is more appropriate to a stationary set up.
I admit this is late but because some folks asked I took pictures today and will post and explain here.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2848.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635898871)
The process starts with the final turn of the cant. Note the side supports are completely lowered and the moveable clamp is lowered below the final cut depth, in this case >1" since I am sawing 4/4 boards. (After I took this picture I noted the cant was not on the rail at the end so I lifted and moved it before actually starting to saw). Flitches to be edges are staged on the loading arms. This is a short log which is less likely to have much spring but it was the next one I was sawing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2849.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899119)
Saw the cant to the rails removing the slab and leaving a stack of finished boards. (In this case I see I had 7 boards - the top one is actually a flitch since there is still some bark to be edged off it.)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2850.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899236)
The next step is to raise the side supports against the stack of board, open the clamp on the opposite side and stand the flitches against the stack to edge them. Note that I removed the top flitch and one more board leaving a height of boards at 5" so I can edge safely to 6".
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2851.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899391)
View from the clamp side - flitches are tightly clamped against the stack of boards.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2852.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899468)
Edge the tallest flitch(es) and open the clamp to remove the finished board. Re-clamp any remaining flitches and repeat edging.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2853.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899564)
Note here I removed a couple more boards as I am fixing to edge to 4" so reduced my stack from 5 to 3 boards and lowered th side supports and clamp accordingly to clear them. The known height of the boards makes it handy knowing the height of the clamp and side supports.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2855.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899676)
Edge the final flitch.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2857.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635899738)
At the end of the project open the clamp and stack the boards. In this simple case you see an 8", a 6" and a 4" finished board from my 3 flitches I started with.
I know you high production sawyers may scoff and the time and effort expended here but there is a place for it with us smaller portable and hobby sawyers.
I hope this helps clear up the process.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm new. Both here and milling. I'm not familiar with WM (mine is a TimberKing), but it appears that your flitches are against the clamp. I thought they would be against the side supports, with the cant between the clamp and the flitches. Wouldn't that hold them straighter? I'm certainly not doubting your technique, just trying to understand why. Thanks.
Good point. Sometimes It takes both, depending on the flitches. The cant is already against the bacstops, so it's easierto leave it there. Sometimes I throw a handy 2x4 on the clamp side. Just depends on how the flitches behave. Like a lot of things, best to adjust for actual conditions during the battle.
Quote from: GAB on November 03, 2021, 04:52:01 PM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 03, 2021, 08:28:02 AM
Okay we will agree "Seasoned" means "spicy". :D
Around here when talking seasoned firewood no spices are involved.
GAB
Now I'm firewood? say_what think_not dadgum you, Charlie! popcorn_smiley :snowball1: smiley_huh2 splitwood_smiley smiley_ignore smiley_furious3 bat_smailey smiley_smash
hugs, Brandi
Salt is seasoning... :D
Quote from: Digger Don on November 03, 2021, 05:34:49 PMIn the photo with the offset pith, how would you suggest cutting that?
With that particular log, I made my initial face opening in that position and turned the log 90° after each face opening. This gave me lumber that would tend to bow rather than crook.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_1219.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635985705)
Here is another example of stress being released while sawing. That board moved in excess of an inch before I was half way to the far end.
Ted,
I am sure Brandi was sugar cured so don't stir the pot too much here. And I will make no more comments about fans in barns.
Fritz looks to have a much better pedigree than any bulldog I ever met so I meant no offense to any other (than bulldogs) K-9s either.
Lynn,
Thanks for the post and pictures and explanation.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 03, 2021, 08:28:02 AMCorrect me if I'm wrong but I bet you are edging more framing lumber that is 1.5"-2" thick. Thick lumber can more readily stand up to be edged without a cant or stack of boards behind them for support.
Correct Howard, I do saw much more framing lumber but there is not much noticeable difference with 1" flitches.
I edged the flitches from 33 logs yesterday and today sawing all 1" lumber with no problem. Not trying to convince nor change anyone's edging methods, just stating mine and joining Crossroads as 'odd men out'.
Since we are still talking edging here I will cover a topic/trick I learned years ago and posted somewhere but probably no pictures.
When you are edging a bunch of flitches and need to remove a single flitch to edge the opposite side or because it is finished I find a flitch/board in the middle often binds from pressure of the other flitches being edged. I can lift one end (the one next to me) but the other is held tightly. What I found on a job up in Bolt WV (Little Jimmy Dicken's home town) when edging lots of 4/4 boards was to use a "pivot stick" which was basically a short sticker. I'd lift one end of the board/flitch to be removed and put the pivot stick under the flitch/board to be removed and across to the other flitches to be edged. Press down on the end of the board/flitch and the other end pops free and you can turn it over or slide it to the side to ne stacked.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2861.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635988027)
I was edging against a stack of board per my now standard practice, I lifted this finished flitch out of the middle of the stack but the opposite end was binding and put the pivot stick under it. In this case I left it to take this picture. Next I just pushed down and the far end popped free. The closer to the center you place your pivot stick the less pressure it takes to free the opposite end. Its a handy trick when sawing alone and edging and removing flitches/boards one at a time. Not a high production technique, more of a high quality, "save every board possible" technique.
@GAB (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=18738) ,
Earlier in this you mentioned sawing for maximum width and that set me to thinking. Does that mean you are doing simple through and through sawing and not squaring 4 sides? When I want maximum width that is what I do. I saw the first face of the cant down to the side supports, rotate the cant 180 degrees and clamp low down and continue sawing to the rails. In this case every cut makes a flitch that has to be edged. I then stand the flitches up, clamp them and start edging in 1" drops. Every time I get a clean face, I unclamp and remove the flitch/board as described above. When I have both faces clean I remove the board for stacking.
This is not my normal practice. I normally saw first face and remove the slab and a flitch or two, flip the cat 180 degrees and repeat down to the width of my desired finished boards. I then flip the cant 90 degrees, remove the slab and a flitch or two till I hit clean wood on both sides then start removing finished boards. This means less edging for me. When I get to the side supports I make my final turn, start on a mark to end on a finished board, remove the slab and a flitch or two till I hit clean wood on both sides and saw to the rails then go back and edge my flitches per this thread. This does not produce maximum width boards but it does reduce edging.
Please clarify what you meant earlier when you commented about "sawing for maximum width boards" or something to that effect. Thanks.
BTW: I normally don't saw over 12" widths unless the customer is there or askes me to do so because most of my customers don't have a planer that will plane over 12" wide.
Mr. Green:
When I wrote that I try and get maximum width boards what I meant was that I will study a log with a tape measure or yardstick in hand and make decisions from there.
For example if a log is 32" dia. at the small end I try and center the pith and tuck it to the log stops with the log stops at 30 to 45°.
Then take a slab and 2 live edge boards, then rotate 180° and slab and take 2 or 3 boards to end at 20". Then rotate 90° and center the pith again and slab and then saw down a ways. Now the top 2 or 3 or 4 boards will probably all need to be edged. After sawing down a little past the pith rotate 180°, lower the centering roller (to avoid long tapers), lower the log stops (necessary to avoid scrapping a blade and hearing ungodly noises), and clamp real low and saw the rest of the cant. Again depending on the shape of the log you may have 2 or 3 or 4 more boards to edge from what was the bottom of the cant prior to flipping.
If a customer says he wants nothing wider than 12" then that is what I aim for.
I hope this answers your inquiry.
GAB
Gerald,
Thanks. Sounds like you pretty much are doing what I do only probably more diligent with your measurements while I am eye-balling mine.
I had a big hump backed log to saw today and sawed the hump off getting short boards off it till I got the full length sawed clean. Not only did I have to edge the sides off I had to cut both ends off to get short but clean, useable boards.
Something that helps me get a better clamp especially on 1x flitches is, after all flitches have one square edge down. Raise the side supports all the way, then clamp them below 1". Then I can lower the side supports as needed and the flitches stay straight and solid.
Quote from: SawyerTed on November 03, 2021, 08:06:22 PM
Salt is seasoning... :D
So now I am salt(y)? :D Y'all are gonna have to quit helping Howard dig his own grave. ;D
hugs, Brandi
With friends like these guys who needs enemies? ::)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 03, 2021, 11:04:15 PM
With friends like these guys who needs enemies? ::)
Obviously, you need all the friends you can get.
hugs, Brandi
I trust I can include you in the august group. ;)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 03, 2021, 09:22:06 PM
Since we are still talking edging here I will cover a topic/trick I learned years ago and posted somewhere but probably no pictures.
When you are edging a bunch of flitches and need to remove a single flitch to edge the opposite side or because it is finished I find a flitch/board in the middle often binds from pressure of the other flitches being edged. I can lift one end (the one next to me) but the other is held tightly. What I found on a job up in Bolt WV (Little Jimmy Dicken's home town) when edging lots of 4/4 boards was to use a "pivot stick" which was basically a short sticker. I'd lift one end of the board/flitch to be removed and put the pivot stick under the flitch/board to be removed and across to the other flitches to be edged. Press down on the end of the board/flitch and the other end pops free and you can turn it over or slide it to the side to ne stacked.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2861.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1635988027)
I was edging against a stack of board per my now standard practice, I lifted this finished flitch out of the middle of the stack but the opposite end was binding and put the pivot stick under it. In this case I left it to take this picture. Next I just pushed down and the far end popped free. The closer to the center you place your pivot stick the less pressure it takes to free the opposite end. Its a handy trick when sawing alone and edging and removing flitches/boards one at a time. Not a high production technique, more of a high quality, "save every board possible" technique.
@GAB (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=18738) ,
Earlier in this you mentioned sawing for maximum width and that set me to thinking. Does that mean you are doing simple through and through sawing and not squaring 4 sides? When I want maximum width that is what I do. I saw the first face of the cant down to the side supports, rotate the cant 180 degrees and clamp low down and continue sawing to the rails. In this case every cut makes a flitch that has to be edged. I then stand the flitches up, clamp them and start edging in 1" drops. Every time I get a clean face, I unclamp and remove the flitch/board as described above. When I have both faces clean I remove the board for stacking.
This is not my normal practice. I normally saw first face and remove the slab and a flitch or two, flip the cat 180 degrees and repeat down to the width of my desired finished boards. I then flip the cant 90 degrees, remove the slab and a flitch or two till I hit clean wood on both sides then start removing finished boards. This means less edging for me. When I get to the side supports I make my final turn, start on a mark to end on a finished board, remove the slab and a flitch or two till I hit clean wood on both sides and saw to the rails then go back and edge my flitches per this thread. This does not produce maximum width boards but it does reduce edging.
Please clarify what you meant earlier when you commented about "sawing for maximum width boards" or something to that effect. Thanks.
BTW: I normally don't saw over 12" widths unless the customer is there or askes me to do so because most of my customers don't have a planer that will plane over 12" wide.
I knew I had read a post about removing the middle flitch trick but couldn't find it. That was it. Thanks.
:D :D
Quote from: btulloh on November 03, 2021, 06:09:04 PM
Good point. Sometimes It takes both, depending on the flitches. The cant is already against the bacstops, so it's easierto leave it there. Sometimes I throw a handy 2x4 on the clamp side. Just depends on how the flitches behave. Like a lot of things, best to adjust for actual conditions during the battle.
No doubt it would be easier to leave the cant next to the back stops. The times I have edged flitches, without a cant between them and the clamp, they bend into the shape of a ). Perhaps that is not an issue, because the saw pulls them over into the cant?
Dan,
I'm not sure I am following you. If I do not use a cant or stack of boards for a backbone I get the ( shape in the stack from the pressure of the clamp in the middle allowing the ends to pull away from the side supports. With the cant/stack of boards the stack of flitches stays straight. It does not matter which side of the side support the cant/stack of board is/are placed on but since the stack is already there when I finished saw the cant to the rails, I avoid double handling by leaving them in place and just standing the flitches up beside them. The cant/stack of board provides just as square a support as the side supports if sawed properly and I find this is faster, easier and less time and effort expended. As I edge lower on the stack of flitches I can just remove the top board or two if I need to cut a narrower board of of a flitch and they get in the way.
If the flitches already have one squared side you could probably get by with just one 4" wide 1X4 laid flat on the bed and clamped tightly against the stack of flitches as I described earlier when edging a single 4/4 board to thin to hold tightly in between the clamp and the side supports as it hold steady pressure the whole length of the stack of flitches being edged.
WV,
You are correct. The flitches would be more of a ( shape, than a ).
I was just thinking that the cant, next to the clamp, would hold them straighter, because they would be supported on both sides. (Keep in mind, I only learned what a flitch, or a cant, was, a few weeks ago.) I'll have to try that, next time I'm at the mill. No doubt, it will be easier than trying to wedge them in between the clamp and the side supports.
Don
Dan,
Actually I was very impressed with your use of the ( or ) whatever to show the shape as that was a very good representation of what mine do when I put them against the side supports without the cant. Please forgive me if you though I was nit-picking about the direction. :D I happened to hit the sign facing backwards to the one you used.
I guess if we really wanted maximum support we'd put the flitches between 2 stacks of board or 2 cants but that would really get to be a lot of work. ;) Actually yesterday when I'd finish edging both sides of a couple of flitches and still had more to do I'd sometimes, if I was not ready to stack them, I'd just lay down the finished boards, flip the flitches to be edged over, clamp and edge them so this way they did have maximum support from both sides.
WV,
I did not find it nit picking at all. No worries there. But, speaking of nits, It's Don, not Dan. No offense taken on that, either. Perhaps Dan is more knowledgeable than I!
Another thing I noticed. I sure wish you were in Hinton, VA., instead of Hinton, WV. I'd be at your place every other day! ;D Many thanks to you, and all the other wise folks here at FF.
Sorry Don, my fat fingers sometimes type faster than my eyes read what I am punching.
I never even knew there was a Hinton VA but I checked and it is 178 miles from here and looks to be about half way on the way to Washing ton DC but why would anyone want to be going to DC? :D
If you're ever in this area look me up.
WV,
Trust me, I have no desire to go to DC. Any place with a beltway is too big for me.
I'm only 15 miles from the other Hinton, so the offer to stop in goes both ways.
I've heard there is no good way across WV, except airplane. And, the only guy I know with a plane, died a few years ago. Just #$%&.
Well we are supposed to be famous for all our interstates per the Robert C. Byrd days. I live about 10-12 miles from either I-64 or I-77 just south of where they merge/diverge in Beckley WV so I am not that far away from people traveling either direction.
I used to hunt in Virginia on a mountain just off the last exit on 77 before you get to the tunnel at the state line. That was a cold place!
Sounds like Big Walker Mountain. Enter in Va and exit in WV on I-77.
There is a reconstructed Wolf Creek Indian Village 8 miles from there at Exit 58 at Bastion Va. It is right behind the Loves truck stop. It is a very interesting place to stop if you are in the area with an hour or so to kill. They found an old palisaded Indian village when they widened I-77, had the archeologists map out the layout and went over about 1/4 mile and reconstructed it with the exact layout of every pole, hut poles, graves, etc. Interesting for the kids and educational for the adults. The guide will stop in each hut and talk about the way of life including pottery used and process, crops grown and harvested from the forest, fur tanning, flint knapping, fire starting, etc.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 29, 2021, 02:14:36 PM
TT,
How does it do that? ??? Do you mean because the board holds them in place?
Sorry WV missed your question here. I posted that edging against a cant solves the problem of edgings falling off of the sawmill.
What I meant that when edging against a cant, where the cant is against the stops and the boards are to the right of the cant, then the edgings fall on the cant, rather than off the left side of the mill.
This saves time not having to go clear the edgings out of the path of the head where they can cause it to jam going forward, or worse, when returning if dragging an edging along the main rail, --on my mill anyway--an edging can pull a manual backstop up and cause it to be in the path of the blade. Also I get real nervous dragging an edging back on the rail because it seems like it could turn into a flying spear heading in my direction.
BTW - the wood will determine whether sawing against a solid cant or a stack of boards works better. Last week I sawed a bunch of softwood (Hemlock and white pine) that was very stable/had little if any tension and when sawing it I'd edge the flitches against a solid cant. When I got to the red oak and poplar where there was a higher incidence of stress/tension I left the cant clamped and sawed till I reached the rails then sawed against the stack of boards.