I know this has been beat to death and it's probably not a large concern but I'd just like to hear real word experience from you guys. Now that I'm getting more equipment I'm trying to get more bulk and simplify my parts inventory. I'll admit I've never worried about oil brands in these old engines but always use three types. Rotella,mobile and the farm store lube king in all my diesels. And now that I've had a few cold starts this winter down to -10F it's got me looking at rotella 5w40 for winter use and 15w40 for summer. I started my spare Skidder here at home this weekend and I don't remember what brand oil was put in that last but wow I had to heat the engine. Oil was like tar. Being in the woods I need good cold starts. (And the machines in use have all started but sound awful) Just curious to what you all think on switching to winter weight oils. Owner manual says I can use different weights for different temps so shouldnt harm anything. Just curious.
Motor oil is expensive to change before it is due. Using thin oil will certainly help crank faster and if it stays cold that is the thing to do. In a perfect world you would run summer oil all year and have a way to keep it warm overnight.
From what I've seen at Wallyworld lately you'll use whatever is on the shelf. Not much selection in the diesel oil area. Went last week to get 8 gallons. Choice on shelf was Supertec 2 gallon and Rotella in 5 gallon buckets.
I have only ever used shell rotella 15w40.
What I have learned from my mechanic is the first number is for cold weather and the second number is for hot weather.
So you realistically only require 5w40 all year round. When I eventually run out of the 15w40 pails I will only buy 5w40 in the future.
Quote from: Woodfarmer on January 19, 2022, 08:03:28 AM
I have only ever used shell rotella 15w40.
What I have learned from my mechanic is the first number is for cold weather and the second number is for hot weather.
So you realistically only require 5w40 all year round. When I eventually run out of the 15w40 pails I will only buy 5w40 in the future.
This is what I want to do but the shell 5w40 is synthetic. I don't really think it matters. But the 15w40 is conventional. Our oil gets changed every 250 hours.
i got a email from irving oil def is going up again. that happens every couple months lately and motor oil is going up in price
i run 15 40 in everything year round
Amsoil synthetic or Rotella Blue T6 synthetic only here. Wanted to run 5-40 about a month ago but none in stock anywhere
Rotella 15-40 I think would be fine year round. But watch some cold test. That Delo wouldn't even pour and rotella did.
This is an excellent explanation of oil weights and conventional vs synthetic. He has many videos on auto-related topics. He talks fast, so be ready to hit the pause button - lots of info very quickly from this guy.
5W-40 acts like a straight 5W at cold temps and like a straight 40W in hot temps. Overall, a multi-weight oil simply reduces the change in viscosity over a wide temperature range.
Is Synthetic Motor Oil Better For Your Car? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYkg0oDUXs8)
At my work I maintain a small fleet of equipment from snow cats to small construction equipment and trucks. I use 15w/40 oil in all diesel engines. The older machines that might leak or burn some oil, I just use Rotella 15w-40 and change it every 200 hours or once a year. The machines that have tier 3 or 4 engines, I use Texas Refinery Moly XL Pro-spec lV XP 15/40. this oil is a synthetic blend and designed for long run times with oil sampling at usual intervals.
I run this in snow cats as it is very difficult to change engine oil when a machine is tracked up and loaded with snow and ice. With this oil, I can run it for an entire season and just take oil samples and have them tested every 200 hours. The only time I have to change it is when a sample show contamination or and engine issue. I average about 1,200 hours a year on each of my 7 snow cats, but have also run this in a Volvo loader that is 23 years old with good success. The loader has almost 14,000 hours on it and has never been rebuilt and uses no oil to this day. I once ran the oil in that loader for 2,300 hours and the sample was still coming back as good. I decided that was just too long to go on the oil filter and now regularly change the oil in that machine every 1,000 hours just to change the oil filter that tends to rust through on the outside if left longer. The TRC oil is quite expensive but has proven to work great for my fleet. Not trying to jinx myself, but we have not had any diesel engine rebuild issues in 15 years now. I thought it might be a good idea to try the same oil in 5w-30 one year, but had issues with ecm's recording low engine oil pressures on snow cats. Went back to the 15w/40 and the problems went away. We have the occasional cold weather staring issues, but for the most part even the engines with only glow plugs or intake heaters start up with no issue.
Texas Refinery Corporation will sample their engine oil for no charge and supply the sample kits. The only charge is for shipping. They will not sample the Rotella oil for free and can detect it somehow and bill me. I just use a vacuum pump that with a hose that goes in dipstick hole to draw out samples when needed. This system has been working for me for many years now. I keep a notebook of all sample reports for future reference if needed.
I use Rotella 15W-40 in all of my diesel equipment, have for years and have always been happy with it. We will see 0F to 100F here. I also use Lucas additive every couple of oil changes. That stuff is the real deal. Number of years ago I pulled a dead 6.5 out of my pickup that had been parked for a couple of weeks. Had to swap the oil pans and when I removed the one from the dead engine the cylinders were coated with the Lucas, just like it had been shut off a minute earlier. That made me a believer in the stuff.
Well good old rotella t4 it is this time. Only one place had t6 and it was $22 a gallon🤯 I think I will just buy t4 only. The cold pour test it's always a winner.
I like the Rotella T6 synthetic 5w40 for anything I run in the MN winter. Next time I change oil in the old Detroit I'm going to use it and see if it causes a warp in the universe or something😁 Stuff that likes to burn oil like the old "Heavy Chevy" 6.6 Duramax gets regular 15w40 diesel oil, whatever is cheapest. In the Mercedes in the Ponsses, we are running a 5w30 synthetic, that is what the newest spec calls for (CK?) I thought we'd be burning oil when we started using it in the older machines, has not been a problem at all though.
I've found thick oil will burn more. I think it sticks to the wall rather than run back down. I don't know. I like t4 I'd like to try the t6 but that's makes oil changes twice as much money. And I'm cheap lol
Call lube distributors and find out who can get you a tote of rimula. It is shell rotella with zero advertising budget so is about $2/g cheaper and only fleets ever know about it.
Around here you buy a tote to keep in the shop and the lube guy comes out and refills it off his truck with a gallon meter. You could probably get a delivery charge knocked off by bringing your tote to his house or shop when he says for a fill.
Pay for oil samples from blackstone labs. In the beginning itll add cost but it will be paid back either in catching failing bearings, cams or gaskets early... And in extending oil service life. Everyone used to say 3k miles. I was sending samples and still had 10% lubricity, detergents and antifoam additives left at 8300 miles on a turned up 6bt running WVO. No one would guess that and be throwing away good oil.
Next up, learn about bypass filtration, lube carts and replenishing oil. You dont have to be changing and dumping it. You can build a filter rig to polish it, make up the additives and continue using. If i were gonna be switching grades seasonally i would simply build a sucker tank drum lid so i could pull gear oils into this barrel, hydraulic into that one, engine oil into that one.. Bring it back to the shop, refine it and store until next season.
When its out of additives i blend the filtered stuff into summer diesel fuel and wring out the last penny. Waste not want not. Runs fine. 5 micron sock filter is all ya need.
Bob is the oilguy.com is board for lube engineers if you really want answers.
And bypass filtration allows ypu to basically never change oil. You change filters, top up with fresh and run it again. Sample at intervals to determine how many hours between filter and makeup schedule.
I run 15w-40 in everything diesel I own. Pick a flavor Rotella, delvac, etc.
I have one tractor that has to run to feed cows everyday even if its -40°, i switched to 0w-40 synthetic. That tractor starts much easier and the starter sounds much happier. The oil is pricey but its cheaper than spending half a day on a no-start and cheaper than premature engine failure from no lubrication when cold starting.
What are your thoughts on putting that in 50 year old kubota or detroit?
I'm running it in a 35 year old 6600 hour ford diesel. Haven't had any leaking issues, and oil consumption is the same as 15w-40 in the summer.
Quote from: Firewoodjoe on January 19, 2022, 07:22:41 AM
I know this has been beat to death and it's probably not a large concern but I'd just like to hear real word experience from you guys. Now that I'm getting more equipment I'm trying to get more bulk and simplify my parts inventory. I'll admit I've never worried about oil brands in these old engines but always use three types. Rotella,mobile and the farm store lube king in all my diesels. And now that I've had a few cold starts this winter down to -10F it's got me looking at rotella 5w40 for winter use and 15w40 for summer. I started my spare Skidder here at home this weekend and I don't remember what brand oil was put in that last but wow I had to heat the engine. Oil was like tar. Being in the woods I need good cold starts. (And the machines in use have all started but sound awful) Just curious to what you all think on switching to winter weight oils. Owner manual says I can use different weights for different temps so shouldnt harm anything. Just curious.
Curious, what diesels do you have ?
If you have a 2 cycle Detroit it's straight weight 40 with Ash content as far below 1% as you can get
D
No more Detroit's. I have two Forwarders with 4 cy fords, one buncher with a 6068t Deere and one harvester with a 74et sisu.
I run the blue Rotella 5-40 in my V-6 Taco with 1qt of Lucas. 6qt total to get it to top of the fill line of the dipstick. Got over 300K miles on it and, I'm just lucky I guess, hasn't tripped the check engine light yet like normal high zinc content would. But my Taco doesn't seem to be particularly sensitive in the computer talking back and forth with the engine. I know it's still working because it's tripped for other things but nothing to do with the O2 sensors, 🤷♂️ who-da thunk it.
I don't remember where I read it, but the synthetic 40 weight oils were supposed to be match 40 straight weight. I think maybe because synthetic inherently has better flow characteristics, it doesn't need to have additives to improve cold performance like a conventional 15w40 would. So it stands up like a straight 40 at working temps. Anyways, that was my understanding, I wish I could remember where I saw it. Also, CK oils are low ash for emissions reasons. And lastly, I might be a bit jaded towards my Detroit because I wouldn't care if it grenades so I could do a Cummins swap😁
Quote from: barbender on January 21, 2022, 12:36:45 AM
I don't remember where I read it, but the synthetic 40 weight oils were supposed to be match 40 straight weight. I think maybe because synthetic inherently has better flow characteristics, it doesn't need to have additives to improve cold performance like a conventional 15w40 would. So it stands up like a straight 40 at working temps. Anyways, that was my understanding, I wish I could remember where I saw it. Also, CK oils are low ash for emissions reasons. And lastly, I might be a bit jaded towards my Detroit because I wouldn't care if it grenades so I could do a Cummins swap😁
Blasphemy ;)
What series Detroit??
I do like those BT Cummins
D
Quote from: barbender on January 21, 2022, 12:36:45 AM
I don't remember where I read it, but the synthetic 40 weight oils were supposed to be match 40 straight weight. I think maybe because synthetic inherently has better flow characteristics, it doesn't need to have additives to improve cold performance like a conventional 15w40 would. So it stands up like a straight 40 at working temps. Anyways, that was my understanding, I wish I could remember where I saw it. Also, CK oils are low ash for emissions reasons. And lastly, I might be a bit jaded towards my Detroit because I wouldn't care if it grenades so I could do a Cummins swap😁
In the video I posted earlier in this thread, it was explained that any straight weight oil will be thinner at higher temps and thicker at lower temps. The multi-weights level out that so it has nearly the same viscosity no matter what the temp. For brand new oil, conventional and synthetics perform identically. Over time, however, conventional oils will tend to thicken (at all temps), where synthetics will remain similar to new as far as the viscosity is concerned.
What you might be recalling is that synthetics are developed from "scratch" with these properties. Conventional oil requires additives to make them behave a certain way. And it is those additives that degrade over time.
I have used Amsoil synthetics in every thing for years. 5W 40 is fine year round in northern climates.
15 40 in warmer area although it will work in the cold too. the 5ws are as much about fuel economy then starting. Most engine wear is at start up and synthetic oils prevent that. Pony start cats lasted forever because they were warmed up and had oil pressure before they started.
all their additives greases and 2 stroke oil are top notch too..
I change my oil once a year. If you pay a yearly fee they give you a discount and ship free.
Costs more up front but saves in the long run.
You can also save money by using oil analysis. many large fleets run the oil to 100,000 miles with analysis and filter changes.
I think Amsoil has some good products, but I don't care for their marketing. Or their diesel synthetic oils being twice the cost of Rotella synthetic. It ain't twice as good.
Dgrls, it's a 3-53. There's a lot to like about them- good power, easy on fuel, starts decent. But every time I run it for more than an hour, I start hating the noise and the dirt bike power delivery😊
Quote from: barbender on January 21, 2022, 11:30:22 AM
I think Amsoil has some good products, but I don't care for their marketing. Or their diesel synthetic oils being twice the cost of Rotella synthetic. It ain't twice as good.
Dgrls, it's a 3-53. There's a lot to like about them- good power, easy on fuel, starts decent. But every time I run it for more than an hour, I start hating the noise and the dirt bike power delivery😊
I remember when 53 series where called Yamaha's. Back in the day Yamaha had sold a lot of small 2 stroke bikes, road bikes, if memory serves they where twins and you could hear them a long ways off.
I remember those bikes! My buddy had one, a Yamaha RD 350. Two stroke twin, piped. That thing was a rocket! And yes, you could hear it from about the same distance away as a Detroit (8-10 miles)😂
The concept behind a 2 stroke is so awesome when you can see it end to end, on something like a 645-710 EMD. We would probably be speaking German right now if it wasn't for Grey marine / GM 2 strokes during the war. Alot of the noise is because the cam and valve train is going 1/1 unlike a 4 stroke that's 1/2 the speed. When I make money like Ed I'm going to find a 1-71 for my living room. Maybe a 51 series 🤔
My mechanic wants to try this stuff 🤷♂️ I've got to fill those bulk tanks in my shop now.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/Screenshot_20220120-101613_Samsung_Internet.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1642725970)
Priced it bulk delivered thru our salesman, I don't think I'm gaining much just on the convenience.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/Screenshot_20220120-173532_Yahoo_Mail.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1642821605)
All I know is I don't like the noise they make, Barge. I don't care where it co.es from😂 The main problem on my ol' Pettibone skidder is the exhaust exit is about a foot behind and above your head on top of the cab. Gosh that thing is nasty!
same with my forklift. the truth is a detroit doesnt make any noise at all, like trees falling in the woods when no one is there.
the sound youre hearing is the metal trying to hold a detroit inside it, reaching its 3rd order harmonic frequency and resonating like a hive of metallic killer bees.
far as oils its money in the bank to buy as much as you can when you got the spare coin. it dont go bad, it only gets more expensive and if youre using it youve either got a critical need or are making money consuming it. on the very rare occasion i have a chunk of cash i go fill the shed with pails and dont think twice. when im down and out, its wonderful to walk in the shed and find hey.. ive actually got one more pail of machine sauce. i can make it to tomorrow again without a dime. phew.
Company I work for uses chevron 1540 in everything big trucks and forestry equiptment etc.
I've always used mobile delvac 1540 in my pickup but I'm doing oil changes out of the bulk tanks at the shop from now on.
I was topping my pickup off the other morning it was about 6 degrees and that delvac was pouring like caramel onto ice cream. Not good.
Mike I think you'll appreciate this quick story:
Ten years ago our neighbor unfortunately passed away, but fortunately had his parents offer us the landlocked piece of land that he was on.
Along with everything on it. A shed stocked with a lot. It's like our own hardware/parts store. Oil galore. Just changed oil in the Fordson Major Diesel that came with the land with "free oil".
Unfortunately his stores of pasta and rice didn't keep.
Also someone stole a lot of batteries and solar equipment as well as a '75 Chevy 1 ton dump and beautiful stone walls.
thats a gem. im real scared of the day they steal the rice and pasta too!
I was a diesel mech for many years and have seen up close the real effects of engine oil. There are some really good synthetics out there but overall when all is considered, I went to Rotella 15-40 on all my own stuff many years ago. I use it everything, and I do mean everything. The availability recently has become a concern, but as long as I can get it, I will use nothing else. Tearing down motors that have run for years in tough conditions will open your eyes.
i used to flip hondas. well, i did a little of everything you can do with hondas. half the time they were 300K miles on just added oil as rented mules typically go. the rocker box would be coffee brown. a few cycles of rotella 15-40 would clear that up a lot. impressive detergents in there.
Can't find any Rottela t6 anyplace in my area .
Napa laughed at me when I asked for Rotella the other day. None to be had.
Irving has plenty of 15 40. Talked to the sales rep last week. Every bit as good or better than rotellar I have been using it for 35 years. Only shortage is in the 250 gal. Tote can't get the totes and def
Never seen, heard, smelled, or even heard mention of Irving except by you folks from Maine on this forum. Definitely a regional thing.
Quote from: leeroyjd on January 22, 2022, 10:16:50 AM
Also someone stole a lot of batteries and solar equipment as well as a '75 Chevy 1 ton dump and beautiful stone walls.
On the stone walls, I would turn the other way at my place.
Now that truck would get someone the buck shot treatment!!!
Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on January 27, 2022, 08:15:44 PM
Never seen, heard, smelled, or even heard mention of Irving except by you folks from Maine on this forum. Definitely a regional thing.
Indeed Regional
Irving is a Canadian Oil Co.
Eastern Provinces and New England region of the US
D
I've seen Irving lumber in the local Home Depot. Never would've noticed it if it hadn't been for Swampdonkey extolling the virtues of the Irvings on here😁
irving is the largest refinery in canada the big one in stjohn nb one in nefoundland and one in ireland. if you buy gas diesel or heating oil in the northeast it came from them. around here it comes into searsport by boat south of here portland or Portsmouth nh. i buy motor oil ect direct from them cutting out the middle man
so who is filling the big tanks in boston and then piping it to gasoline alley in springfield.. is that irving product also?