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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: Dan R on February 02, 2022, 08:42:05 PM

Title: sharpening question
Post by: Dan R on February 02, 2022, 08:42:05 PM
I purchased a sharpener and tooth setter for my LT 15 blades. For all of you Millers with their own sharpening equipment do you sharpen or set first. I have got conflicting opinions on this. 
Thanks Dan 
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: PAmizerman on February 02, 2022, 08:45:32 PM
I sharpen first
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: trimguy on February 02, 2022, 09:33:58 PM
I'm still fairly new to this and a hobby sawyer = little experience. I set first and then sharpen. I have a little burr on the back of the blade from sharpening that would have to be knocked off to get an accurate reading on the setter.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Bradm on February 02, 2022, 10:12:57 PM
Set first, then sharpen.  Nothing should touch the tooth after it gets sharpened.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: fluidpowerpro on February 02, 2022, 10:21:09 PM
I just bought a sharpener and setter so I too am a beginner.
On earlier occasions in various threads about sharpening and setting I have seen comments about de-setting first, sharpening and then resetting??
I have also seen it said that setting isnt required every time you sharpen.
I would like to hear more about this if anyone is willing to edjumAkate me.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Percy on February 02, 2022, 11:06:52 PM
I have read some very interesting debates and opinions on this subject since I joined up here in 2003. There is some really technical points made by  some, refuted by others who are just as educated as the point makers. ;D

Sharpening and setting is a necessity, but in  my opinion, you should read up and then make your own decision after trying both ways...... Some dislike sharpening but others, including myself kinda like it.  :) :)
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: kelLOGg on February 03, 2022, 06:18:12 AM
I set then sharpen. I frequently find that setting before each sharpening is not always be necessary but I don't want to take the chance that a tooth may be off.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Gere Flewelling on February 03, 2022, 08:03:54 AM
I run the blade through a roller first to remove set (not all of it), then I sharpen, I de-burr the tips, and then set.  Took a bunch of combinations of the above to finally decide what works best for me.  I can do all of the above with my sharpener and dual tooth setter.  Not a speedy process but is an accurate process that has produced good results for me.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Chuck White on February 03, 2022, 08:14:16 AM
I run every blade through my roller, then set, and finally sharpen!

If your final step is sharpening, the face of the tooth will be square rather than angled!

I don't get concerned with the bur on the back side of the blade, it will go away during the first few passes through a log with no ill effects!
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: JoshNZ on February 03, 2022, 01:31:21 PM
I set first then sharpen, don't see why vice versa wouldn't be OK too. I unfold a blade and lay on bench, measure set left and right in 3 different places, if they're all even and enough it goes straight on the sharpener. Unless it's been marked back at the mill for having a rogue tooth or poor cut/whatever and needs attention.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: ladylake on February 03, 2022, 01:56:43 PM


  If your final step is sharpening, the face of the tooth will be square rather than angled!


 Thats why I set first.  Steve
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: MobileSawMilSlo on February 03, 2022, 02:52:43 PM
In the beginning I have first set and then sharpen the blades.
But after a while, I have concluded that for me it is the best other way around.

If you have some small damaged blades tooth and you must go for example 4 or 5 times around, then you completely lose the set you have made before.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: ladylake on February 03, 2022, 03:18:36 PM
  

I only go around once on 99% of the blades, too many damaged teeth they get thrown out.  A couple of damaged teeth I don't worry about.  Steve
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Daburner87 on February 03, 2022, 03:37:47 PM
Any cheap setters and sharpeners out there?  Any opinions on Woodland Mills setter/sharpening system?

https://woodlandmills.com/product/bandsaw-blade-sharpener-and-setter-bundle/

Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Crossroads on February 04, 2022, 08:38:00 AM
Quote from: ladylake on February 03, 2022, 03:18:36 PM
 

I only go around once on 99% of the blades, too many damaged teeth they get thrown out.  A couple of damaged teeth I don't worry about.  Steve
I don't even have my grinder yet and this is the way I intend to roll. 
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Oddman on February 04, 2022, 01:23:29 PM
I find there's always somewhat of a burr on one side of the teeth (even after upgrading to a CBN sharpener) so to save the trouble of de-burring, I set before sharpening.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on February 04, 2022, 02:11:31 PM
I measured the width of the burr I was getting with my CBN grinder and came to the conclusion that it was less than .001 ", and had no bearing on anything.

If I know that a blade has lost a lot of set, then I might set it first. But normally I sharpen first, then set. I like that this leaves the blade oiled which makes it go through the setter smoothly.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: YellowHammer on February 04, 2022, 04:36:05 PM
I sharpen first then overset a few thousandths and then don't set for the second sharpening.  

I set off the tooth tips so if they are not fully formed or dull, then I am setting on a rounded corner and may be off a few thousandths and not give me as smooth a finish. Sharpening gives me a perfect reference face or corner to set on.  

I used to set them sharpen for years but I could never get the consistency or accuracy of sharpen then set.  
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Gary Davis on February 05, 2022, 12:52:54 PM
hudson used to make   a primitive hand setter that works  very simple and low cost
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: firefighter ontheside on February 05, 2022, 01:47:36 PM
Quote from: Dan R on February 02, 2022, 08:42:05 PM
I purchased a sharpener and tooth setter for my LT 15 blades. For all of you Millers with their own sharpening equipment do you sharpen or set first. I have got conflicting opinions on this.
Thanks Dan
What did you get?  Woodmizer or other equipment.  I think I'm gonna order something soon.  I was looking at Woodmizer and Woodland Mills options this morning.  I'm not sure what the timeframe is for Woodmizer, but Woodland mills says 4 weeks.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Dan R on February 06, 2022, 01:11:46 AM
I purchased the Woodland mills sharpener and setter. I was able to see one in my area. I done a few blades with it and I'm sge tying to like it. 
Dan
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Dan R on February 06, 2022, 01:13:51 AM
Wow should have previewed post. 
I am starting to like it. 
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: BrentWV on February 06, 2022, 06:03:34 AM
I ordered a Wood-Mizer BMS 25 last April and still haven't seen it.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: frazman on February 06, 2022, 07:45:32 AM
I will be purchasing the Woodland Mills sharpener & setter as well this year. It will interesting to see how it turns out for me as what to do first. There are good point either way.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: tawilson on February 06, 2022, 08:21:33 AM
Reading this thread caused me to change my mind 3 times about how I am going to do my next batch. I do need to invent a desetter.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Durf700 on February 06, 2022, 09:52:48 AM
Quote from: tawilson on February 06, 2022, 08:21:33 AM
Reading this thread caused me to change my mind 3 times about how I am going to do my next batch. I do need to invent a desetter.
if you come up with a simple good de-setter please share.  I want to be able to de-set also!
thanks!
for the record, I sharpen and then set! ( BMS 250 and BMT 250)
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: firefighter ontheside on February 06, 2022, 12:08:51 PM
Quote from: BrentWV on February 06, 2022, 06:03:34 AM
I ordered a Wood-Mizer BMS 25 last April and still haven't seen it.
That's the other thing.  Of the two, I'd rather have the woodmizer, but the best one to order might be the one I can actually get.  I'm also going to look into the Viel and see if I can get it.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Dan R on February 07, 2022, 01:05:58 AM
If I remember from the early 80 s running a new Woodmizer and the owner had a sharpener he had a desetter that was two rollers that you ran the blade through and it would squeeze the teeth back strait then you would set and sharpen. 
Dan
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: barbender on February 07, 2022, 01:49:54 AM
Unless I actually hit a foreign object, I've never had teeth increase in set where I would need to de-set them first. I typically only set after the third or fourth sharpening, unless I am cutting something where I want a lot of set. I've never seen the teeth "move" from sawing, they just consistantly lose set with each sharpening from the teeth getting shorter.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: ladylake on February 07, 2022, 06:15:29 AM
 
 I'm not a big fan of desetting ,  those teeth are brittle enough without bending them back and forth.  Steve
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: kelLOGg on February 07, 2022, 06:50:48 AM
There are times when the ability to de-setting a band is a plus. I can do it on my single tooth Cat Claw setter by putting the band on the base of the setter beneath the anvil so when the handle is actuated the moving plate on which the anvil is mounted presses the band to the back stationary plate removing enough of the set to allow resetting. However, I rarely need to do this.

Also, on the subject of sharpening is cleaning the band and zeroing the setter. If the band gullet (tip to tip) is not free of sawdust the push finger on the sharpener can accumulate sawdust as it pushes and push the band too far allowing the tooth to miss the grinding wheel.

To zero the setter I use a piece of flat stock. Some use the raker tooth for zeroing but if it has developed set that makes it a bad choice. I have noticed that the rakers on my bands frequently are "set" up to about 0.005". They still function a raker tooth but would do poorly for setting.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: Chuck White on February 07, 2022, 07:47:02 AM
When a blade is sent to Wood-Mizer Resharp, the blade will run through desetter rolls!

That's where I got the idea to build my own!

The teeth are not deset back to zero, they are partially deset, my desetter is set up so the teeth have about .012-.013 set in them when done.
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: jimbarry on February 08, 2022, 07:40:17 AM
This is from WM's sharpening manual. 

If you sharpen, then set, your tooth orientation will look like the 'Sharp Blade' face view diagram.

If you set first, then sharpen, your tooth orientation looks like the 'Perfectly Sharp Blade' face view diagram.

I've adopted the practise of set first, then sharpen. I do this for my own blades and our customers. No one complains of wavy cuts.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/sharpen_or_set_first.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1644323822)

 
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: jimbarry on February 08, 2022, 07:44:46 AM
The next page in that manual is this.

A lot of blades that come through the shop had pitch build up that needs to be cleaned off first. 

I follow #2 if the blades are in ok condition. I follow #3 for reconditioning the blades that are really dull or have been deformed.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/sharpen_or_set_first_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1644324089)



Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: jimbarry on February 08, 2022, 07:47:44 AM
The final page is this. It's for sharpening processes that don't have (or don't require) cleaning.

When reconditioning blades that don't require cleaning, I follow this decision process.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/sharpen_or_set_first_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1644324410)
 
Title: Re: sharpening question
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on February 08, 2022, 09:13:01 AM
The diagrams are convincing as to why setting, then sharpening give a tooth ground square to the main body of the band.  But the angles shown illustrate the result from the starting point of a blade having zero set.  Most blades that I set will be pushed over less than 5 thousandths, about 1/5 of the total set, so the difference between which operation I do first is minor compared to that shown in the diagram.