Does anyone have any experience with White Spruce (Picea glauca) timber framing? I'm assuming similar characteristics as most spruce pine fir. Would like to know some info if anyone has experience building with it, especially in Alaska.
There is an abundance of Beatle Killed and fire damaged spruce available. I would like to utilize it.
Thanks in advance,
Nate
NBPETE08, welcome to the forum. I live in Seward , not that far from you. All the trees near me in Seward are Sitka spruce or Hemlock. I have my mill set up near Pt. Mackenzie where there are lots of beetle killed white spruce similar to what you have near Sterling. I have cut the framing and flooring material I used to build a cabin from the beetle killed white spruce and it worked well. The standing dead trees that I checked had a moisture content between 14% and 20%. you could cut your timbers and let them air dry more but I don't think it will get much lower than the 14% without a kiln. The lumber I used was right off the saw and it hasn't shrunk or moved much in the two years since I built with it. I don't have any experience with timber framing so I can't help you there, but the beetle killed worked well for stick built. Good luck in your building adventure and keep us posted with updates and pictures.
No experience but it is in the SPF group for dimensional lumber as well as heavy timber.
White spruce can check heavily. In my climate, it doesn't last long dead standing, either. Outside of that, it is good stuff👍
This Alaskan couple saw dead spruce for everything. A lot of dead standing stuff up there. The old Klondike Stampeders used it for corduroy bridges on the pack trails. Stay away from centre rings and big knots and you'll make fine lumber.
Turning Dead Trees into Lumber | Milling Logs for Shipping Container Lean-To - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwq__-plLGk)
Quote from: WCFAK on February 28, 2022, 10:23:01 PM
NBPETE08, welcome to the forum. I live in Seward , not that far from you. All the trees near me in Seward are Sitka spruce or Hemlock. I have my mill set up near Pt. Mackenzie where there are lots of beetle killed white spruce similar to what you have near Sterling. I have cut the framing and flooring material I used to build a cabin from the beetle killed white spruce and it worked well. The standing dead trees that I checked had a moisture content between 14% and 20%. you could cut your timbers and let them air dry more but I don't think it will get much lower than the 14% without a kiln. The lumber I used was right off the saw and it hasn't shrunk or moved much in the two years since I built with it. I don't have any experience with timber framing so I can't help you there, but the beetle killed worked well for stick built. Good luck in your building adventure and keep us posted with updates and pictures.
Thanks, very valuable info! That's amazing it gets to that low of a moisture content. I can't imagine it would do much more drying beyond that in a house.
And, yes , you guys have some monstrous trees over there in Seward. I was actually involved in milling a few big Sitka spruce while working in Yakutat one spring.
Thanks everyone. Appreciate the info.
I'm down the Yukon from Fairbanks,about the very center of the State,and i use White spruce for everything.
You guys down on the Kenai peninsula are pretty lucky,lots of great big trees down there. On my rare visits there i hated to see all that beetle-kill,but since it can't be helped at least you now have all that wonderful timber to build with.
I use timber both local,and just as often drift-logs. These come down the Yukon from as far as 1100 miles up river,and so i cannot speak of a biological "purity" for these spruce. In general,White,Black,and Sitka differ so insignificantly as to make the point moot (the regional differences may be greater than that anyway),so for the builder we can i think just call these all White spruce.
Here're are a couple points that i know of regarding this species' use in TF:
1. It's brittle,especially in an abrupt section change (i.e. tenon).
If your project involves more than one story,or has other higher than just basic loading situations,you may have to spline vs self-tenon the joints.
On one large project,the Black Rapids roadhouse,i've seen them use splines of 1 1/8" underlayment. In other words some engineered solution may be required vs a straight-up tenon.
2. White spruce in our latitudes has a strong tendency to form "compression wood". If you're not familiar with the concept,it's when under some external stress the cells in a portion of a ring grow extra-thick walls. It's easy to see with the naked eye,they're much darker,brown color against the light-colored surrounding rings,very easy to see on a (clean) cross-cut. Those thickened cellulose cells are much harder,and therefore more brittle. They also act differently in other ways-shrinkage,load-bearing,et c.
If possible try to avoid these inclusions in the more critical structural members.
Lastly,WCFAK's Seward-sourced trees sound lovely,and Big. If you're lucky to work with material like that,avoid heartwood as in the normal heart-free center fashion.
Other than that yes,as stated above expect the checking to be fairly severe.
(Personally,i view checking as an aesthetic,vs structural issue).
The best of luck with all your projects.
Good post, and Jake, you're alive! how is everything surviving the winter, did you get a lid on the box?
Don,Happy spring to you,hope that your projects are all going well!
No,Sir,unfortunately the spring here,this year,is not early...
My site still has over 3' of snow inside,the night temps are well below 0 F,and i'm only Just beginning to move about.
I'll shovel the site,by'n by,but in spite of sunny/close to +30F days and snow sublimating(going from solid to vapor skipping liquid),it'll be some time until i can dig down to where my truss-jig is iced in on the platform.
The air temps themselves would not allow me to pound a nail into all that fresh spruce,i must have it a bit warmer,especially that building the last of the trusses will all be the nail-gun work...
Them's the breaks here...:(...I Could,conceivably,have covered the site up.It would've required considerable effort,but the worst part would've been taking up the snow load by my yet-incomplete lid framing...We got well over 5' of snow this year (our fire dept. barn roof collapsed,and some other structures),so it was a tough decision,and i took my chance by leaving the site exposed instead.
Hoping to get back into it in a week or so.
It's all a trade-off: Our winter humidity here is Way low,and the logs stayed nice and dry. I notice they even bleached somewhat in that good cold winter air and sunshine,and my enemy the molds took it in the shorts!:)
As soon as i Do start it'll be a race once again,the rains will likely begin at end of June,so i'll have a couple months to preserve all that dry winter loveliness...REALLY hope to have the tin on by then...
Been reading what is was like up there in 1898. Tappan Adney, wrote an account of the Klondike Stampede for Harper's Magazine in 1900. He's buried back here in New Brunswick, 30 miles from here. The end of the Royalton Road here is nicknamed the Klondike. Two family members went up, grandmother's uncles. ;) Of course the old people are all dead now, no one to ask stuff. No letters that I've ever seen over the years. Might be family members in the states that have something, but they'd be strangers now and wouldn't know where they were.
You may have come across the thread about the account in the General Board. Got to be tough for that country for sure. ;)
Jake,
Thanks for all the great info. I'll certainly have to do a bit more research on the types of joints used with spruce.
My cabin is white spruce, I scribed all the logs and as said above it is brittle. Us a knife line before cutting your joints. between the logs shrinking and joints and notches I dropped from 104" of wall height to 98". I was 3 years scribing all the logs in my back yard. Make sure you have large overhang to protect the wood from the weather.
Quote from: Stephen1 on June 05, 2022, 07:40:55 AM
My cabin is white spruce, I scribed all the logs and as said above it is brittle. Us a knife line before cutting your joints. between the logs shrinking and joints and notches I dropped from 104" of wall height to 98". I was 3 years scribing all the logs in my back yard. Make sure you have large overhang to protect the wood from the weather.
What was the condition of the spruce when you felled it? Ie. dead standing, green, etc?
Any idea of your shrinkage lengthwise?
It was green when I received my logs. I bought them from a telephone pole supplier. You will have minimum shrinkage on length. The rule of thumb is 3/4" per 12" height of wall.