Backstory/Introduction: Last month I bought a LT70 Super/EG200 Diesel/BMS250-BMT150 setup to my 19 year old tree service. I'm still developing the business model for the sawmill. Obviously Yellowhammer's model of high end products is attractive; cutting dunnage from low grade logs from tree removals seems like "easy" money. Adding a kiln seems like a fairly likely direction for the business to grow.
I have a tri axle rear mount grapple truck, a hook lift truck, track loader (331G), and mini ex (KX057). Between the existing support equipment, having a stream of waste logs, "plenty" of room, and my relatively low cost of entry (relative to market values of the equipment), I think I have a competitive advantage.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/69037/IMG_2906.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1648918875)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/69037/IMG_7559.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1648922618)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/69037/IMG_7566.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1648922619)
I am working on laying out a work building. It started out with building a barn to park some trucks in, then build a separate shop, then a separate sawmill shed.
The price on the pole barn (50x108x20) came back less than expected, I did some thinking, and priced adding 30' lean tos on either side, making the total footprint 110'x108'. The logic being I could park the trucks/trailers in one lean to (30'x108'x14-18' clearance), sawmill in the other using a header to skip one pole to make a 24' opening for the log deck, then a work shop in the middle 50x108.
I'm thinking about the layout/flow of the sawmill in the 30'x108' lean to, as well as the general validity of the idea. My first thought of putting the sawmill against the inside wall of the lean to seems like a waste of space with 20' of log deck under the roof and the inline nature of the outfeed of the LT70 and the EG200. I'll have to have space for air drying. Having a smaller partitioned area for the mill operation is an idea to minimize wasted space. Unless I go with a vacuum kiln, the (future) kiln will have to be separated, obviously.
I welcome thoughts/opinions. This forum really is a fantastic resource. I'm looking forward to the get together next weekend!
Quite the proposition! That's a mess of equipment and of barn space, good for you!
What we do, sometimes, at work (nothing to do with sawmilling) is make a flat scale model in paper (like paper dolls) and put things in places and see how it feels, then rearrange and see again. It seems like this would be a good opportunity to do similarly. I'd suggest making models of everything, material handling equipment, mills, trucks, anything that takes up space. We use the scale of a quarter inch equals a foot and it keeps things a manageable size that you can easily mess around with on a tabletop. The models I'm talking about are also nothing fancy, just small rectangles that represent space used. There is the legwork of having to go measure everything but that goes surprisingly quick. Next, you can pretend you are driving a forklift over to pick up slabs off the mill, or how it makes most sense to park the dump truck, how much space it'll take to get the skid steer behind the mill to get sawdust or whatever.
This idea works pretty well and it's how we can move a factory floor around very quickly, after we come up with a good plan.
The price came in less than expected? What planet are you on? ;D
As for layout ideas, here is a graphic from Woodmizer's LT70 page.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/67554/lt70MaterialHandling.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1649184354)
"Less than expected" is relative.
It sounds like an ambitious project and will give lots of options. I have played with drawings off and on for something similar. It is hard to decide how to set things up and get them right the first time. More than likely your first set up will change, so keeping the spaces as flexible as you can is important. That's my .02 worth of advice.
Keep the photos coming of the progress on this! It is an interesting project.
I have done like Austin suggests with the flat paper models when loading a truck to see if everything would fit. You could also do a template for a walkway to make sure you have working room between the equipment. Good luck. Real nice sounding shed and good looking equipment.
My mill shed is similar in size. It's 90x106 under roof. I thought it was going to be plenty big enough. Nope, it's packed slam full and barely room to move. I also have 3 other buildings, all packed full. I've come to the conclusion that if I put my entire acreage under roof than I would still be short on space. One of the biggest deciding factors when figuring the lay out of an operation is the number of employees. I try to get by with just myself and two more. So my lay out is different than if I was planning on using 5 or more employees. I also end up sawing alone at least a few times a week so my setup still has to work for that.
I would seriously reconsider not parking everything under one roof. If you have a fire or roof collapse then all of your business assets are at serious risk.
Like CS said, there is never enough space between equipment, stickered lumber, etc.
To SawyerTed's point- My little shop is about 14'x22', not nearly enough room, but I found after working in there a bit, that changing the location of 2 benches (one is about 8'x4', the other is about 5'x 3') made a huge difference in my workflow. I'm typically doing woodworking stuff in there and everything except that smaller bench is on wheels. I found, with the placement of my entry door, that making that one simple bench swap gave the space to store tools and move tools into a workable spot made a huge difference.
Your stuff is much bigger than anything I'm dealing with so it's likely more challenging to move, but I'm guessing you'll move it around several times.
I have a brand new barn (40'x48'x16') that's pretty much only loaded up with stuff from the garage and the backhoe and I already feel like it needs some optimization. Luckily, I still need to put the floor down so it'll inevitably happen regardless.
Quote from: aigheadish on April 05, 2022, 02:02:50 PM
Quite the proposition! That's a mess of equipment and of barn space, good for you!
What we do, sometimes, at work (nothing to do with sawmilling) is make a flat scale model in paper (like paper dolls) and put things in places and see how it feels, then rearrange and see again. It seems like this would be a good opportunity to do similarly. I'd suggest making models of everything, material handling equipment, mills, trucks, anything that takes up space. We use the scale of a quarter inch equals a foot and it keeps things a manageable size that you can easily mess around with on a tabletop. The models I'm talking about are also nothing fancy, just small rectangles that represent space used. There is the legwork of having to go measure everything but that goes surprisingly quick. Next, you can pretend you are driving a forklift over to pick up slabs off the mill, or how it makes most sense to park the dump truck, how much space it'll take to get the skid steer behind the mill to get sawdust or whatever.
This idea works pretty well and it's how we can move a factory floor around very quickly, after we come up with a good plan.
Yep, I do a version of that as well; I'm a visual learner/problem solver.
Quote from: rusticretreater on April 05, 2022, 02:48:02 PM
The price came in less than expected? What planet are you on? ;D
As for layout ideas, here is a graphic from Woodmizer's LT70 page.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/67554/lt70MaterialHandling.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1649184354)
I got a price in early 2020, the price is higher, but not crazy. 😂. I've seen that layout before, I'll keep pondering it.
Quote from: SawyerTed on April 05, 2022, 04:45:05 PM
"Less than expected" is relative.
It sounds like an ambitious project and will give lots of options. I have played with drawings off and on for something similar. It is hard to decide how to set things up and get them right the first time. More than likely your first set up will change, so keeping the spaces as flexible as you can is important. That's my .02 worth of advice.
Keep the photos coming of the progress on this! It is an interesting project.
Flexibility is my main idea, I don't need to overcommit the construction to milling, considering that aspect of business is barely started.
I'll definitely take pictures of what progresses, it's like paying dues for the feedback the forum provides!
Quote from: customsawyer on April 06, 2022, 04:49:57 AM
My mill shed is similar in size. It's 90x106 under roof. I thought it was going to be plenty big enough. Nope, it's packed slam full and barely room to move. I also have 3 other buildings, all packed full. I've come to the conclusion that if I put my entire acreage under roof than I would still be short on space. One of the biggest deciding factors when figuring the lay out of an operation is the number of employees. I try to get by with just myself and two more. So my lay out is different than if I was planning on using 5 or more employees. I also end up sawing alone at least a few times a week so my setup still has to work for that.
I'm looking forward to checking out your setup Friday! I also don't plan on having much help, relatively.
Quote from: Southside on April 06, 2022, 07:09:51 AM
I would seriously reconsider not parking everything under one roof. If you have a fire or roof collapse then all of your business assets are at serious risk.
Like CS said, there is never enough space between equipment, stickered lumber, etc.
I appreciated the concern, catastrophic loss is certainly something to plan for. The building will be monitored, but stuff does happen. Roof collapse is somewhat minimized by the roof being broken into 3 spans. Everything is insured and I have other business that isn't under the roof.
Flying stinging insects building nests and snakes in the stickered wood has me considering the air drying shed being separate from the normal work areas. Starting a work day with those problems isn't ideal.
Quote from: aigheadish on April 06, 2022, 07:59:13 AM
To SawyerTed's point- My little shop is about 14'x22', not nearly enough room, but I found after working in there a bit, that changing the location of 2 benches (one is about 8'x4', the other is about 5'x 3') made a huge difference in my workflow. I'm typically doing woodworking stuff in there and everything except that smaller bench is on wheels. I found, with the placement of my entry door, that making that one simple bench swap gave the space to store tools and move tools into a workable spot made a huge difference.
Your stuff is much bigger than anything I'm dealing with so it's likely more challenging to move, but I'm guessing you'll move it around several times.
I have a brand new barn (40'x48'x16') that's pretty much only loaded up with stuff from the garage and the backhoe and I already feel like it needs some optimization. Luckily, I still need to put the floor down so it'll inevitably happen regardless.
Definitely will change as things go on. I plan on doing most of the wiring as I move into the building and see what needs to be where.