I am looking for some wisdom on how to handle the log/cants for a frame. I plan to cut the logs in the winter when the sap is down. But it seems to me that it would be smart to to let either the logs or the beams to season some before I start cutting the joints. Thanks for any insight or advice.
What kind of logs? I like to get the timber out of log first.
Start cutting joinery as soon as the timber is dry enough to mark with a pencil, usually a couple of hours
The longer a timber (not a log) sits the harder it gets.
Logs with bark on them will invite bugs to attack them. And lumber does not dry in log form.
Follow Dave's advice. No need to dry timbers.
Fresh is best.
Jim Rogers
A local to me, professional forester is having an Amish group from IN cut a timber frame for him as a part of his home. The hickory trees and sawmill aspect will be done by the local guy on his property, who then transports the wood to IN within a few months of cutting. I forget the time frame, but they specified a very limited time (and sizes & lengths) as they want to cut joints on green, not seasoned wood!
How do you think that is going to turn out?
Were it me cutting those joints in hickory, I'd hope they were green.
This guy poured the walls of the small house they live in with the long range plan that it would become the lower part of a timber frame. The original roof comes off and the frame goes upward. One aspect is that he has lots of properly sized hickory, the "left behind species" often seen here bouts, up high.
Quote from: tbjohnson on May 03, 2022, 08:47:04 PM
I am looking for some wisdom on how to handle the log/cants for a frame. I plan to cut the logs in the winter when the sap is down. But it seems to me that it would be smart to to let either the logs or the beams to season some before I start cutting the joints. Thanks for any insight or advice.
Since you are talking about sap, is it safe to assume you're talking about softwood- pine or spruce?
I only cut hardwood so I can only give you that perspective. Also cut mostly walnut, cherry, and Ash. I do use Osage for braces sometimes. With the timbers I cut, I've been cutting for my projects well ahead of them. So I cut my timbers 1/2 inch oversize and then store them in my pole barn where they've dried between 1 and 5 years. in 1-2 years, most of the movement has happened as they've been air drying. They won't be uniformly dry to the center by any means but most of the movement has happened. I then joint/plane them after with a sawmill mounted planer. But if I didn't, it would be perfectly find to then layout the joinery and cut it and it likely won't significantly move any more.
So there are two choices, you can cut the joinery in a green state and erect it as quickly as possible to reduce the moving effects. It will then dry in place held by the joinery which will resist some of the movement. The other choice is to leave it dry enough to get most movement out. Yes the wood won't par "as easy" as totally green. Walnut, cherry, and Ash will be less noticeable in that respect, but some harder woods like white oak might be a little harder. If you're so inclined use more power tools! Rely more on the circ saw, grinder/sander etc.
I'll agree that Hickory can be the Devil dry. I only have 1 or 2 hickory beams so they'll get powered through. Just cause it's harder doesn't mean you can't get it done. You just don't want to deal with an entire frame of dry hickory for sure!
Why? I can cut steel, concrete, all kinds of things harder than dry wood. I wouldn't want to look at the distortions green hickory would do through the rest of time.
For the record- my post about the hickory for an Amish built frame was a "pass it along thing", not something I know much about.
I do know you can cut or cast steel or concrete or weld metals and more down my professional lines of training. :D
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Brad, You talked about using Cherry in your frames.
My questions : are those frame sections load bearing? If so where did you find the design values for that species?
My daughter is building a new home and would like 2 Cherry beams in her "office" ceiling holding up the second floor. Those beams will rest upon a stick built stud wall and will in turn support the floor joists for the second floor bathroom.
I have been unable to source the design values for Cherry, Ash, or Walnut (too dark for her personal taste).
Any thoughts as to keeping the building inspector happy?
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Cherry will eventually turn much darker from air & UV exposure and it will happen sooner or later. Since she doesn't like walnut as too dark, she owes it too herself to see some older cherry and know what's going to happen. Certainly won't get dark as walnut but it does get fairly dark is my point.
Ash might be the better choice color and beam load wise?
Worst comes to worst you could cut a channel in a wood beam and hide some steel in there? :D