Decided I needed something a little bigger at the mill. I have found 2 pieces I think might work for me.....mahindra 4550 4wd or a bobcat 763 wheel loader. Both are low hours and in excellent condition....just a bit indecisive and I put a great deal of confidence in the advice from this forum. What would your thoughts be?
I'd go with the bobcat! I prefer a skid steer over a tractor for moving logs around the mill. More maneuverable. I'd recommend if the budget allows to get a tracked skid steer tho. Good luck! Stay safe!
A "farm" tractor is very limited as to what it can pick up. I prefer to see a skid steer for it's log and lumber handling abilities.
I have both and prefer to use the skid steer for maneuverability and capacity. If you are gonna use it for the mill only, id go skid steer. The tractor will just get you by at the mill, but does many other tasks on the property. If you have other needs you might consider it as an "all around" machine. Brian
Get both ..... :) Seriously I use my tractors 10 to one over my skid steer, but it is a small one. Will you do any work out in the woods, do you have acres to mow. How long are the trips to the various piles you get with a mill , snow removal etc. If you have a well organized level mill yard a skid steer will shine.
I think the Bobcat wheel loader might be a very versatile piece of equipment. Is there forks to go with it? If so, the loader gets my vote. I like tractors as well, but you said you need something around the mill. The Bobcat being a wheel loader,has a much heavier front axle for lifting and moving heavy loads.
I've only been in one situation that used a Bobcat. It wasn't for handling logs, as they had bigger wheel loaders for that task. But, it was used to move lumber, and was a bigger model of Bobcat. We had problems with it tipping, even on a concrete floor. It seemed that we had to have some pretty small bundles in order to prevent the tipping. It wasn't ideal for a more commercial operation. Our target bundle size was 800-1000 bf.
I don't know if the farm tractor is much better from a lifting standpoint. It is possible to put a weight on the back of the tractor to prevent tipping. Can you do that with the Bobcat?
Mahindra specs show 2800lbs lift capacity at the pins vs 1500lbs for the bobcat. Also, the tractor has more ground clearance and i would estimate a higher resale value.
I have a Case 1845C skid loader. I don't know the rated lift capacity, but lifting 500 bf packs of green pine makes it start to get tippy. If I put the over the tire tracks on, that helps as it increases the counterweight.
Quote from: Magicman on July 18, 2022, 06:51:17 AM
A "farm" tractor is very limited as to what it can pick up. I prefer to see a skid steer for it's log and lumber handling abilities.
Magic has seen many different pieces of equipment around the sawmill and he is a tractor guy
For some reason, I seem to climb in the cab of the tractor when I'm sawing, even though the CTL is only 50 feet away. On the other hand, nothing beats the CTL for lots of jobs and I drive it pretty much every day, also.
Different tools for different jobs.
Most skid steers I've been around max out at around 600 board foot of lumber. Tractors less.
I have a piggy back forklift which is good for 6,000 pounds. I've never made it tippy or found anything it couldn't lift. I also have a small Ford tractor. It doesn't have much lift capacity, maybe 1,000 or a little more pounds. By far it gets the most use. Quiet, fast, easy on/off, and doesn't use much fuel. It will handle 80% of my logs, waste slabs, but won't lift any stacks of lumber.
In a reply above it said the 763 had a 1500 lb lift capacity. That's pretty limiting for logs and lumber packs. If the tractor will lift 2500, that'll be a lot more useful. If you want a skid steer probably better to look for one with a bit more grunt.
How you use it and your particular situation might be worth considering. I have never used a skid steer, but I have a 4WD 48 hp tractor about equal to the Mahindra. It will pick up 23-2400 lbs if you are careful. It will get tipsy at that weight. 15-1800 lbs it does fine with a grapple. For hobby sawing with a manual mill and working the farm/deer camp, the tractor is all I use. It has a grapple, bucket, 48" forks, carry-all, runs bush hog, root rake, disc harrow, fertilizer spreader, etc. I'm no where near a pro but the tractor gets me by fine.
Traded on the tractor. Felt like skid was over priced and he wouldnt budge on it. Area around my mill occasionally turns into a mud bog so I do think the tractor is my best pick for my situation. Thanks for the input!!
I had a 4550 it will out lift that model bobcat by alot .
Get the tractor
Robert,
However, your tractor is NOT the average tractor!!! :)
@yellowhammer
I currently use my CAT backhoe with quick grab 6' forks and it will pick well over 5000 # but it is kinda long with the forks on and hoe out the back.
I'm looking at a Bobcat 763, if I get it I'll let you know how it compares. I suspect it'll be tippy and under capacity but maneuverable and good for light loads. To me skid steers shine in the area of attachment versatility.
Do you intend to only use it for the sawmill?
If you have other uses, the ability to tow with the tractor and the pto on the tractor can make it's shortcomings around the mill worth it.
Quote from: RichTired on July 19, 2022, 01:11:33 PM
Robert,
However, your tractor is NOT the average tractor!!! :)
@yellowhammer
That's a fact. I'm SO glad I got it years ago.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0290.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1267041250)
Back in the days when I had Fat Albert, the Oliver Backhoe, there was nothing that he could/would not pick up. :)
A 2 wheel drive farm tractor does not have the strong front end that the FWA tractors have. The 40 series JD tractors had a cast front end that is stronger than the older welded front ends. Abilene machine near here offers replacement front ends for older models that have more capacity. Industrial tractors have heavy front ends, I had a Ford once, but the thing needed a load of weight on the rear to take advantage of the lift capacity.
I have found on the tractors I have owned that forks on the 3 point or a loader put on backwards allows a lot more weight to be lifted than a front loader. It puts all the strain on the heavy rear axle instead of the weak front axle and make steering much easier as well.
Although I don't know of any remotely modern tractor that would allow you to mount the loader backwards without a ton of modification to the tractor or the loader.
They make 3pt forklift units
They look slick
I fab'd my forks to also fit on the 3pt hitch. Was easy to do using the quick hitch. Just pick up and go. Helps a bunch to have the hydraulic top arm.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Dbl_pallets~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1658445777)
To convert the loader forks over to the quickhitch, added top hook brackets A & B, then round stock C for the lower quick hitch hooks.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Forks_modified.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1658448717)
Quote from: beenthere on July 21, 2022, 07:27:42 PM
I fab'd my forks to also fit on the 3pt hitch. Was easy to do using the quick hitch. Just pick up and go. Helps a bunch to have the hydraulic top arm.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Dbl_pallets~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1658445777)
To convert the loader forks over to the quickhitch, added top hook brackets A & B, then round stock C for the lower quick hitch hooks.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Forks_modified.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1658448717)
Very nice Sir
The heavier a tractor the more useful it is. Horsepower, frame size, and hydraulic cylinder size. Bigger is better.
It's hard to lift 5,0000 lbs if the tractor only weighs 4,0000.
YH
You are right a heavy framed tractor will handle the big loads.
I like the heavy weight of the Mahindra I had , but I wouldn't buy one again for 2 reasons.
1st the dealer I had wasn't good at their after the sale job.
2nd Mahindra's quality is still not ready for prime time Sunday Football night in America.
If anyone has questions I would be glad to answer them.
Quality is mid level at best.
I have a used Kubota L series coming on September 1st.
I buying it from my uncle.
Low hours not used hard.
It's mostly for non mill task , rear snow blower , brush hoging , light grapple work.
Could load small logs in a pinch.
It would never lift the packs of lumber I make now.
It's to good of a deal to pass up.
It's open station and will need guarding added for my tasks.
Hope your dealer is better getting parts on that Kubota than mine were. >:( >:( :(
Yes, there is the internet, but dealers should be able to get a part before 2 weeks. ???
I went to 2 different dealers, ::) 2 weeks!!!!!! :o
I traded it in for a NH. There was a salesman in town, 3-4 days, part at my door step. ;D
Ray
We are very lucky with 2 Kubota dealers not to far from me .
Both have excellent parts departments.
My first tractor I got was a Kubota from one of them.
Didn't know how well I had it till I tried 2 other brands .
The big difference between a 4x4 tractor and an equal h.p. skid steer [wo tracks] is the ground they stand over or some say foot print. Said another way the size of the mud hole. A s.s. will get stuck bad in a small mud hole and the tractor needs a bigger mud hole to get stuck. In a small area [with no mud] a skid is very fast and handy. The one machine I liked for a sawmill yard is the backwards tractor fork lift.
One point I always try to make when this subject comes up is not all skid steers are the same. I realize not all tractors and forklifts are either, but when people read skid steer or "Bobcat" a lot of folks' minds go to a Bobcat 743 sized machine or even one of the older, smaller ones. The only similarity those bear to modern machines is you still have to crawl in the front to get in and they steer by driving and braking on opposite sides. If you compare the power and stability of a 743 to say Yellowhammer's Kubota SVL-95...well, they don't even compare.
That is a fact, I researched every skid steer and track loader made, and settled on the one I have now. Basically a 100 hp, will lift up the world, turn on a dime and give a nickel change. Way fast, and super stable. I personally hated skid steers for many years, until they came out with joystick controls and high flow system compact track loaders. These new generation are strong enough to lift up the logs and the trailer they are on at the same time...well, maybe not that much, but every person who's gotten in and driven it, has said "wow" and so did I. Since it's heavily counterbalanced in the rear, weighs in at about 12,000 pounds, big loads on the forks just make it sit more stable and increases traction.
Its a second generation DEF system, SVL97-2, and with forks and a 4 way bucket will do things with dirt and logs that a monkey couldn't do with a hot banana.
One thing that comes to mind, I don't let anybody drive my T4.95 New Holland tractor. It's a little too complicated, a little too tippy with big loads, has a few too many gears and a little too intimidating. It's easy to damage in the wrong hands and has almost the exact same HP as the Kubota.
Conversely, I let my daughter drive the Kubota, it's fun and very stable with big loads, and next generation easy. That may be a consideration with hired help, not to mention I can basically remote control and monitor several functions from my cell phone and even set and activate a wireless geo fence so that with the track loader's on board GPS, my phone will sound an alarm, and I think even turn the machine off, (not sure) but certainly not start, if it's ever off my digitally geofenced property. It's also got an onboard tracker so if it's ever stolen, I and every Kubota dealer in the country can find it. Pretty cool.
Tractors and hired help aren't a good combination. When I had the Mahindra 4550 I wouldn't let help run it. Things can go wrong quick on a tractor.
I tried a [have] a 6 cyl. Thomas skid steer/ forks here. The problem was stacking stickered and spaced packs of lumber. If a stick or spacer moves you can't get out to fix it. I think JCB made a machine with a side door however.
Just to add my two cents, something most people seem to not realize, is that a skid steer's operating capacity is rated at 50% of it's tipping load. Therefore, the 763 should, and I repeat, should.....lift 3000 pounds before it wants to tip. Now, that's all in perfect conditions, but just some food for thought.
I looked real hard at JCB's with the side doors. They are basically a tele handler without the "tele" or a very short one, maybe 6 feet or so. Trouble is, I had zero local dealers and the closest one around was going to charge me $1,000 for labor and mileage for a warranty call. No bueno!
I've never been able to make much sense of the operating and tipping loads...out where I run my machine where the ground is not level and bumpy, you can be well under the tipping load and still end up on your nose with lumber all over the ground. With the short wheelbase, skids suffer far more from having the balance point shifted by a heavy load. A load that seemed totally under control tips the machine forward when you back over a piece of firewood you didn't see, that kind of stuff. I think a realistic load you can move around with is more around a third of operating load.
Quote from: alco424 on July 25, 2022, 08:12:58 PM
Just to add my two cents, something most people seem to not realize, is that a skid steer's operating capacity is rated at 50% of it's tipping load. Therefore, the 763 should, and I repeat, should.....lift 3000 pounds before it wants to tip. Now, that's all in perfect conditions, but just some food for thought.
And the tipping load is boom fully extended
Quote from: moodnacreek on July 25, 2022, 08:37:19 AM
I tried a [have] a 6 cyl. Thomas skid steer/ forks here. The problem was stacking stickered and spaced packs of lumber. If a stick or spacer moves you can't get out to fix it. I think JCB made a machine with a side door however.
Kubota CTL the doors open over your head inside the cab. It's still now easy if the forks are 4-5ft off the ground but I can wiggle out of the cab with the load in any position.
Until a hose breaks and the forks come down on top of you. Steve
I can still wiggle out of the cab in a pinch, but not like I could when I was 27!! :D
I won't get out of my skid with the loader raised unless the safety arm is engaged.
I'll get out of my loader all day long with a 4,000 lb log with the loader above me
Might not be able to tell Barbender and ladylake if it doesn't work out 😂
Right!
I know of a farmer that got killed doing that. My brother who is higher up in a big construction company said at a safety meeting that 10 people get killed each year climbing out under the forks. At his company they are fired if caught doing that. Steve
Nothing has to break to get you, wouldn't be hard to catch a loose shirt or coat on the leaver while getting out.
On the old Thomas you have to hammer the one pin to lock the boom up. Thats what must be done.
Quote from: ladylake on July 26, 2022, 06:49:46 AM
Until a hose breaks and the forks come down on top of you. Steve
Around 20 years ago a neighbor of mine was putting mulch on landscape fabric with his bobcat around his house, leaned out of the cab with boom raised to check the fabric. Bumped the joystick or something and the boom pinned him between it and the machine. Didn't make it and left small kids behind. Safety first.