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I knew it would happen sooner or later but I was hoping it would be later. The emerald ash borer has arrived. These trees are in a section of the farm that I don't visit very often because it is thick with bittersweet vines and thorn bushes. But last March I cut a path down into that area with the idea of harvesting some of those ash trees before the bugs found them. The trees looked fine last March but of course there were no leaves on the trees then so it would be hard to tell. I'm glad I cut the path in.
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That 2nd picture is where the path ended. I have gone in and widened and improved the path and now it's harvest as much ash as I can, both logs and firewood, while the ground is dry.
Keep on cutting Cutter
Sorry to see that Cutter. It's a very sad process from here on out
Definitely brings a frown to the face. I had wondered years ago when I had several ash and one monster one dying. I've got dead ones all through my woods. And was one of the first places in the state after they said the first case of emerald ash was six miles from my woods on the news and I knew they were way off when the first case was discovered because mine started several years before they said about the first case discovered
That is to bad. Get them cut while they are good. But around here the elm the ash and the beech are all making a come back. Lots of saplings up to 4" DBH. Unfortunately non of them are very valuable to begin with. And we are afraid the beech will drown out the hard maple. Mother Nature. 🤷♂️
What's amazing is how trees can get wiped out everywhere and some they don't go after and are just fine. I noticed yesterday when I helped my old buddy move some heavy equipment from one field to another five miles away that all the ash trees there were just fine and I said I was amazed because they were fairly big. The only difference I noticed was he had cattle in there.
That's a shame. Keep your head on a swivel cutting them, especially in amongst the bittersweet, never can tell where broken pieces are going to end up.
Quote from: Firewoodjoe on August 19, 2022, 07:27:05 PM
That is to bad. Get them cut while they are good. But around here the elm the ash and the beech are all making a come back. Lots of saplings up to 4" DBH. Unfortunately non of them are very valuable to begin with. And we are afraid the beech will drown out the hard maple. Mother Nature. 🤷♂️
At the rate beech leaf disease is spreading those saplings are not long for this world. It's pretty ugly in southern new england
Quote from: EricR on August 19, 2022, 09:31:46 PM
Quote from: Firewoodjoe on August 19, 2022, 07:27:05 PM
That is to bad. Get them cut while they are good. But around here the elm the ash and the beech are all making a come back. Lots of saplings up to 4" DBH. Unfortunately non of them are very valuable to begin with. And we are afraid the beech will drown out the hard maple. Mother Nature. 🤷♂️
At the rate beech leaf disease is spreading those saplings are not long for this world. It's pretty ugly in southern new england
Yeah it killed ours years ago. 6-8 years ago I was kinda nervous to even cut them. There was so much white on them I was think is this good to be breathing lol now most of the cut-able size trees just make pulp. If that. And the regrowth is thriving.
Cutterboy, I feel your pain.
I panicked in 2009 after attending a wedding in Chicago and seeing all the dead ash along I 90 on our way home.
Sold all my merchantable ash then using my buy high sell low principal, took a bit of a bath.
I have dodged the EAB bullet here for the last 13 years.
EAB evidence spotty last year now almost all are infected.
my forester son marked the remaining 162 ash, mostly in the 15 to 16 DBH class.
WE have been harvesting them and selling the logs on the landing.
We only work 2 half days a week so is slow going, but we manage to get from 15 to 22 trees out in a morning not bad for a couple of amateur loggers.
Averaging $.70 per bf so far as the logs are pretty small.
The buyer wont take the dead trees as the PPB invades as soon as the tree dies.
We will stay warm for a few seasons burning the tops.
Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on August 20, 2022, 08:56:27 AM
The buyer wont take the dead trees as the PPB invades as soon as the tree dies.
So it is better to harvest the live trees first and save the dead ones for firewood?
I made the mistake of counting the dead ash in my yard, about 6 acres. I think I stopped counting when I got to around 55, and most of the yard is grass or open field. I've got probably an acre or 1.5 acres of "woods" and it sucks to see all the ash skeletons sticking up in the tree line. They neighbor and I took down two big ones a few weeks back and one of those and another in the middle of the yard broke off about 10-20 feet up, and they were both bigger than 2 feet across. Sketchy! I've got another that I'll likely try to push over with the backhoe before it falls where I don't want it to. That one isn't going to be fun as the bottom of the trunk looks like an "S" and we can't quite tell where it'll go. Really there is only one good direction for it and it seems unlikely to go that way. Save for maybe a few other dead ones if most fall where they stand it won't hurt my feelings too much.
I've got one of the big ones laying in the yard that I hope to slab up sometime to see what I can get out of it, wouldn't surprise me if it just goes to the fire pile.
Sad.
I saw mine dying last fall. Dropped quite a few this past winter as saw logs and firewood. Many leafed out this spring but now, particularly with the drought we have been in, have lost their foliage and are done. There are many to fell as soon as fall comes.
Quote from: cutterboy on August 20, 2022, 02:49:41 PMSo it is better to harvest the live trees first and save the dead ones for firewood?
Yes. If things are more advanced, and I would say you are at that point, I would focus on harvesting those with the most leaf area and leaving the rest. Ash become very brittle after EAB and trying to utilize all of it, while an admirable goal, should give one pause to evaluate the risks and rewards of cutting the trees.
I don't know how much ash you have on your property but if it amounts to much and you can't get to it in a timely manner remember that there is nothing wrong with letting it fall down.
Clark
Quote from: aigheadish on August 22, 2022, 10:09:20 AMThey neighbor and I took down two big ones a few weeks back and one of those and another in the middle of the yard broke off about 10-20 feet up, and they were both bigger than 2 feet across.
That 20' up clean snap off is very common with EAB killed ash. The issue is that by the time we see the tree is impacted by the bug - dead leaves, slipping bark, etc - it's actually been compromised for a couple of years and the fiber is already weak. Now if it's "standing dead", it's likely really compromised and like you said - just breaks off. I won't hand fell Ash as a result - they just rain down too many widow makers. Proceed with extreme caution.
I wholey agree, other than I'm knocking them down in the name of safety as well, which is tough and scary. I need to learn more about ropes and block and tackles, I think.
When I was dumber than I am now I went back to the creek line and knocked over a couple with the backhoe. I'd reach up as high as I can with the hoe, push the tree a bit and hope it cracked and fell. Well, I was farther away from one than I should have been so I didn't have quite the pushing distance on my hoe. I gave her a shove, listening and watching for the cracking, and the next thing I know the glass in the hoe side window (which was open and horizontal above me) exploded, as a branch about 8' long and probably 4-6" around came crashing down. I got very lucky in that the hoe has an enclosed ROPS and the only damage was the busted window and some cuts on my back where the glass fell down my shirt.
I realize it's difficult, but a forestry harvester is the only safe way if you have any volume of dead Ash to deal with, for all of the reason above.
Ropes and blocks don't stop the limbs from raining down, and that break point is always an unknown.
Just a little tap against a tall tree can bring down something the wind won't. You won't see this happen if you are on the machine.
Quote from: moodnacreek on August 23, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Just a little tap against a tall tree can bring down something the wind won't. You won't see this happen if you are on the machine.
Depends on the machine and how you're looking up.
Quote from: aigheadish on August 22, 2022, 10:09:20 AM
I made the mistake of counting the dead ash in my yard, about 6 acres. I think I stopped counting when I got to around 55, and most of the yard is grass or open field. I've got probably an acre or 1.5 acres of "woods" and it sucks to see all the ash skeletons sticking up in the tree line. They neighbor and I took down two big ones a few weeks back and one of those and another in the middle of the yard broke off about 10-20 feet up, and they were both bigger than 2 feet across. Sketchy! I've got another that I'll likely try to push over with the backhoe before it falls where I don't want it to. That one isn't going to be fun as the bottom of the trunk looks like an "S" and we can't quite tell where it'll go. Really there is only one good direction for it and it seems unlikely to go that way. Save for maybe a few other dead ones if most fall where they stand it won't hurt my feelings too much.
I've got one of the big ones laying in the yard that I hope to slab up sometime to see what I can get out of it, wouldn't surprise me if it just goes to the fire pile.
Sad.
Quick way to check lean is a plum bob when falling tall timber I'll use a retractable key chain to check as well as double as an extra sight for falling.
Where do you hold the plumb bob? I could conceivably tie one to the end of the backhoe bucket to get up high but this specific tree comes out of the ground and takes a left then right then leans one way then the other.
I think you guys have convinced me to leave the dead ash alone and let nature take care of them. They are out of the way in a back corner of the farm. I'll concentrate my efforts on the live ones. There is some good timber and lots of firewood in the ash in that area.
Thank you all for your replies and good advice.
Cutter, what did you use to cut your trail thru all that bitter sweet and thorns ? Does not look like it was a fun job. I have a place almost as thick as that but buckthorn. Keep thinking there must be a better way then a saw and hand piling.
gg
g__man, just a chainsaw and thick gloves. You are right, it was not a fun job.
What my paths look like now.
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My forester advised me to cut all merchantable ash, of which I have few, now, as they will inevitably be killed by one or more pests.
No EAB here yet but crown dieback is prevalent among the ailing trees.
Path looks good
Fortunately (??) for me...........the borer started hitting my ash about a year or two before I was going to do a huge remodel/addition to my house. I cut what I could get to and get out with my (laughable) rudimentary system. What I got out sawed 1900 bf. Had it all dried and milled into window trim, base board and T&G paneling for the house project.
Once it dies, I don't even like to WALK under it.........let alone nose the bar of a saw into it. To many widow makers.
Yoder409
How about some pics of what it looks like under an ash tree that has been dead for two years. That would be very informative to the forum.
As to the beech, if it is beech bark disease hitting them, the thick undergrowth of beech where they have slowly died out of the canopy, seeding the forest floor, leaving maple behind in the canopy is very typical. Those new beech will get hit by pole stage and meet the same fate. Meanwhile that thick understory beech hinders maple regen. Where I am thinning now, the woods is full of 'beech art trees' where the harvest crew ran over it and pushed it over, old stumps with 10+ stool shoots. None of it will amount to beans. I can't cut a lot of those bent beech with a brush saw, but if there is a maple or birch near by a stool shoot stump, the stool shoots get whacked.
Been lucky so far, no ash borer in my woods and I have a lot of ash. It has been found in northern Maine and New Brunswick a few years ago. That means it was here years before that, like some of you say. The best thing for the ash is forest diversity, I have a lot of softwood mixed in and maples, not much aspen. My woods is young here, I leave some nice looking ash and take the junk. I see no need to aid the eradication of ash from the woods. Maybe some of the good ash are less appealing to the bug, while most are. I've always believed the better and healthier trees have a chance, a sick tree has no chance. Ash log prices these days are no different than 30 years ago, so I see no profit in that. Firewood is much more valuable, and thinning gives me firewood and a healthier stand. ;D
We had the same people promoting the idea of cutting every fir because the budworm is here. We never and I have thousands of healthy fir anywhere from 6"-16" diameter and less than 40 years old, long ways between whorls. Fir nor ash is very high value. It's so abundant right now. Just yesterday in the middle of a softwood stand an ash about 8" diameter has recently dropped thousands of seeds. I have an acre of fir that needs thinned hard, second time, I'm starting to see thousands of new seedlings. The wind typically hits that area, so I want to take the weaker ones for firewood this fall. You can see from the ground that the area has had lots of windfalls over the centuries. The ground right now is devoid of dead wood. But pits and mounds. I thinned it last in 2007, and none of that slash is to be seen. Just beside it was a stand of aspen and balm, Arthur knocked most of it down, it's wetter ground. But 40 years ago some 20+ diameter aspen came out of there, some over 30", 90 footers.
In the rush to salvage American Chestnut timber before it was all dead, naturally resistant trees were more than likely cut. Chestnut blight is a different pathogen than the beech scale and ash borer insects but have we cut/are we cutting ash and beech that may have some natural resistance?
Welp, I went out and gave the s-curved ash tree a shove with the backhoe as high as I could get it, probably 15-20 feet up, and with just a touch of the extendahoe she fell just the right way, missing two new Sycamore trees and some other small but nice looking tree. I used a very gentle touch and no widowmakers fell while the tree went down. It's already on the fire. Woop! That was the only quite scary tree I had dead standing in the yard, the rest I'm not too worried about.
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I've been cutting dead standing Ash up here for over 5 years. Hundreds of them.
I was selling logs to a buyer at the landing but a year ago he wouldn't pay me any better than firewood, said the logs weren't very good, so I stopped selling logs. Well this spring I had a guy with a band saw come in and we did 3000 bdft one weekend and I tell you there were very few boards that had any defects In them. So I felt the buyer was just trying to stiff me.
- Near the end of March I went and dropped most of the standing Ash left as has been mentioned they are starting to break off 20'-30' up, getting dangerous.
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We are 106 trees of the 162 into the ash salvage so far.
We cut the totally dead trees which are few and let the buyer make the determination as to merchantability.
So far he has rejected only 3 trees.
When we offered the ash for sale by bid, the price came in very low, hence the Mark and Pete logging crew doing the harvesting.
The bid price for the Ash was estimated between $4,000 and $6,000.
The price for the 106 trees have already equaled the high estimate for stumpage with 60 to go.
I estimate that we will realize about $250 per mbf for cutting and skidding which I am told by an industrial forester is about the going rate.
Rather slow going as we are inexperienced in logging and only able to work 2 mornings a week.
Very nice looking Ash boards woodfarmer
Nice looking ash lumber for firewood logs. Up this way ash logs are cheap because mills get cheap wood from public land, so not going to give you fair market price. I wouldn't sell nice ash for less than $800/th. So I'll probably never sell any. :D