Hello,
I'm a hoppyist woodworker and have been offered a few very large sections of a wooden sailboat's keel that was salvaged after being sunk. The owners think it might be purpleheart and I planed down a piece and found that it is very beautiful hardwood but not sure what type.
My question is how would I be able to find someone to help me retrieve this wood and saw it into lumber? It doesn't seem like there are that many local sawmills (portable or otherwise) that could tackle this.
Also, since I don't know much about this, is it harder to saw old wood (it's very dry and very hard) than freshly-felled wood?
I hate to see it go to the landfill, which is what will happen if I don't rescue it. I'm not sure how much this would yield, but certainly enough to make 5 or 6 very large dining room tables.
I'm in Los Angeles if anyone has anybody to recommend. My name is Blake, and you can call me at 323-791-8971. This is a photo of one of the pieces:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71519/IMG_0843.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1665450792)
It's hard to help you out without specifics. What are the dimensions of these keel sections? WxHxL would be helpful. Except for length, I can't tell from your photo that anything would be tough to fit on most mills. But, if there is metal in there, pins, nails, bolts. well that could be a big show stopper. I am on the right coast, so no help in any event, but anybody that might be able to help you out there would need details. How have you tried to find a mill?
That's pretty interesting especially if it's purple heart. Can you get some more pictures? Maybe put a known object wirh it for scale? Some exposed fresh wood? Can you transport it?
Member @Tule Peak Timber is southeast of LA and would probably be interested. (If he hasn't already headed up to his place on Kodiak Island lol).
Very cool piece!
Edit: @tule peak timber (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=25190) , aka WOC
White Oak keel? Do you have any age or history of the sailboat?
I reached out, so we shall see. ;D In the past I've done some DF parts for boats, but a lot depends on where the boat was built.
It would be an interesting piece to know what boat it came too.
Thanks for the advice everyone. Tule Peak did indeed reach out and asked all the right questions. I'm now trying to figure out how to get it transported to his location (there is a gantry available to help load). I didn't take any measurements but the largest piece was 20-25 feet long I'm guessing.
As for metal - there is definitely metal involved. On both large pieces, there are pieces of planking attached with screws, so that is a factor, but I'm thinking even if it takes a bit of work to detach some attached pieces and planking it's still worth it.
Still don't know what kind of wood it is, but Tule Peak informed me that it would be unlikely to be purpleheart, but still would be very interesting wood. From the piece I planed down, it's beautifully dense and striped.
I'll send more photos with an update when I can.
Quote from: blakeinla on October 11, 2022, 10:20:37 PMAs for metal - there is definitely metal involved. On both large pieces, there are pieces of planking attached with screws, so that is a factor, but I'm thinking even if it takes a bit of work to detach some attached pieces and planking it's still worth it.
Remember that
Well you are not going to find a better guy to work with than Rob, he knows his stuff and produces gallery quality work. He is also extremely busy.
You could reduce his burden by getting all that stuff off the keel before you load it up. Probably a consideration to add a carbide blade into the cost of milling that thing up. Even if you don't hit any metal, it will give nice flat wood.
Good luck, we wanna see pictures. ;D
Time for fresh batteries in the metal detector !
I've been watching a sailboat rebuild/restoration channel on YouTube.
They used purple heart for the keel.
Even after all the years on that keel, I'll bet the first cut with any saw will tell you if it's purple heart!
I planed down a small piece that I took home to examine and this is what it looks like inside. Brown streaks. Beautiful but I have no idea what kind of wood. The boat it came from was called the Highland Light and has an interesting history:
http://blog.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/highland-light-a-lost-heritage/ (http://blog.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/highland-light-a-lost-heritage/)
Working on transportation now. This is exciting!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71519/IMG_0847.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1665605598)
That looks like one of the mahoganies?
My best metal detector is a new saw blade, seems to work every time :).
Interesting history, I read the linked article. But that info ends short of the vessel's demise. It was an east coast coast and south Atlantic boat it's whole life and was not seaworthy when last heard from. I wonder how it would up on the other coast and apparently sunk?
Seems like you have a rainbow keel? In that photo, which side was the water side and which side was inboard? All boats swell and take up, I wonder how this one laid.
What are you going to make from it. Hard to tell the size from the photos, maybe I should read back. ;D
I'm with Don P about some type of mahogany.
Interesting history.
Quote from: metalspinner on October 12, 2022, 01:38:17 PM
I've been watching a sailboat rebuild/restoration channel on YouTube.
They used purple heart for the keel.
Even after all the years on that keel, I'll bet the first cut with any saw will tell you if it's purple heart!
Perhaps I'm watching the same one. Tally ho?
Yes. That's the one. He should have just started from scratch. 😂😂😂
Not sure how the boat ended up on West Coast - I'm going to try to get more history once I solve the transportation issue.
Also, the in last photo I posted I don't know what part of it was touching water or if any of it was touching water. Hard to tell because the piece I brought home is so broken up.
You have a piece of history there. WOW. Personally, I would find a way to get something from that keel to the Naval Academy, possibly even the Smithsonian, given the boats history. I would think it would be prominently displayed.
I think there is a guy in Thousand Oaks with a mill. He advertises in the Ventura County Craiglist for slabs and such.
Update: Thanks for all the help everyone! With the help of a gantry at the marina, I was able to load the sailboat wood onto a vehicle trailer and get it down to Rob at Tule Peak Timber. Rob was great, and says the wood is Mahogany. He cut and sanded a piece and it's just beautiful. Lots of copper and brass nails and bolts, which will take a day to get out. Can't wait to see what we'll get from this piece of history!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71519/IMG_0888.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1668745966)
Definitely sounds pretty exciting!
So we started diving for embedded foreign material (efm) in a small 4 foot section today and came up with 5 pounds of copper and bronze, wads of flax/cotton caulk and various broken off pieces of the hull. Cleaned up the symmetry of the keel lets for the ribs and planking shows that whoever crafted this piece knew what he was doing. I'm touching the work of a 3D craftsman from 100 plus years ago, absolutely awesome! 8) 8)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/sailboat_keel_1_11_21_22.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669065106)
I definitely want to see a finished product. this is gonna be amazing.
A great deal of time metal diving for bronze screws, lags and big pins. The metal ranges from lead sheet to copper brads to 1/2, 3/4 and 1" bronze pins. Tremendous amount of imbedded material, so much so that after a couple of weeks of digging and pulling we finally just to send the keel parts through the woodmizer and found out that the standard 7 degree blade cuts right through everything. Pleasantly surprised! We are on the last big piece; have veneered out the smaller pieces inside to find white oak, mahogany and some kind of engineered timber. Obviously, a repair job from decades ago. This saw job is more a labour of love and certainly not one of production.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/sailboat_keel__2_11_25_22.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669480063)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/sailboat_keel_3_11_25_22.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669480102)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/sailboat_keel__11_25_22.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669480138)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/sailboat_keel_1_11_23_22~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669480213)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/sailboat_keel_2_11_23_22.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669480248)
What a cool thing to be a part of. Very few can say they've worked on a piece of history.
On kind of the same note. This was just in the news's. Battleship wood resonates great for guitars.
https://www.1011now.com/2022/11/26/lincoln-resident-turn-battleship-wood-into-electric-guitars/ (https://www.1011now.com/2022/11/26/lincoln-resident-turn-battleship-wood-into-electric-guitars/)
A few years back I did a similar thing with Fender, fleeting profits........ :D
Battle axe?
Rob, it looks like Blakeinla chose wisely on who to take this to. It is good to see the effort being made to properly and respectfully saw and repurpose this piece of history. Thank you for sharing the pictures.
Quote from: Don P on November 29, 2022, 06:20:25 AM
Battle axe?
No , the traditional split face veneers on the strato and the other one. Also, cases for their amps. Very tough company to deal with, and they have an AMAZING facility in LA cranking out something like 1500 guitars a day. I cannot produce pallets of consistent parts for pennies on the dollar. Oh well.... ;D
Quote from: caveman on November 29, 2022, 03:00:25 PM
Rob, it looks like Blakeinla chose wisely on who to take this to. It is good to see the effort being made to properly and respectfully saw and repurpose this piece of history. Thank you for sharing the pictures.
Our sawdust glitters like gold from all of the bronze.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/sailboat_keel_2_11_29_22.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669756795)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/sailboat_keel__11_29_22.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669756912)
Are those 7° DH blades or Turbo 7's?
I checked the box and they are 10 degree double hard
That's interesting, I'm working through a box of 9° double hard blades and they seem to do well except when I hit metal. Even if the blade is still sharp enough to cut okay, the set is usually off by enough it wants to dive or raise while offering a diminished surface finish.
I'm setting and grinding after just two feet of travel in the widest parts of the keel. Bronze actually does cut while steel just wrecks the blade. It took 3 blades to cut the keel up. Never met metal in wood that I did like! :D
So amazing to watch this whole process. And so happy to have met Rob. Really can't wait to see what he does with his share of the wood and now I'm trying to figure out what I'll do with mine. I was re-reading the history the Highland Light and and saw this photo of the boat before it sank. I think this photo is in the Long Beach marina where it sank:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71519/90C0F3EF-9B85-4739-B1A7-56A084C85E2A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1669780888)
It is kind of a shame you didn't leave all the bronze in and be able to saw through it all. I find soft metal in my boards to be a selling point.
I have thought of wrapping a tree with a spiral of copper wire, let it grow for ten years then mill it to see what it produces just to be able to have a bunch of boards with a lot of metal in them.
Ive also thought of doing similar with a maple tree, drill lots of tap holes in a single tree, fill the tap holes with plugs, let the tree heal for a few years then mill it. It would give interesting lumber.
Joe,,,,stay tuned!
:P 8) :P
It's been almost a year but I've decided to build a couple of entry doors from my share of the keel wood. After more days of metal drilling, drift pinning, pulling, and removing the last of thousands of screws ,lags ,spikes, and pins this one-of-a-kind wood is ready to dimension. I have a tentative drawing, given the pieces I have for two doors that will honor the wood the best way I can. It kills me to cut up such big pieces of mahogany but the only other use would be for a bar top and I'm not interested in selling this wood to anyone. It was mindboggling today trying to figure out where to drill a drift pin hole on each of the big bronze spikes that had blind ends going into the timber at compound curved angles. Driving out the foot long barbed bronze spikes, whole or in pieces backwards was a killer.
Clean enough to face and resaw for the door parts/pieces.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/DSCN2288.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698281846)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/DSCN2290~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698281873)
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(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/DSCN2294.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698281952)
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(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/DSCN2295.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698282007)
It will be a great conversation piece.
Looking forward to seeing this project progress.
This week I collated the materials into 3 door builds and started with the smallest one first. This door has a "veneer" of keel wood as it uses up the remaining scrap materials and will be used as a bath passage door. A couple shots of the edge banding on a "resaw and flip" core made from sycamore. One pic shows the copper accents for the panels with patina and a coat of epoxy to seize the colors fast. I looked at bronze plate for the panels, but it was cost prohibitive, so I'm faking it with copper roll. M&T dry fit in the pics, and yes the joints tighten up! Cheers WOC
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/DSCN2304.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1699050719)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/DSCN2303.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1699050749)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/DSCN2306.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1699050774)
I have 2 of the 3 doors ready for detailing and finish. Some shots of the scribed joinery and the basic design that will carry through on all 3. Only one will have the baked on lead oxide bottom paint, super weathered look. I cannot begin to imagine how much arsenic has been soaked into this wood from the various preservatives used over the last century. When you cut it, it takes your breath away, literally. One of the joints I am referencing to wood that is not even there; notice all of the imbedded copper and bronze hardware and I'm not going to change that. The limited amount of material that was my portion of this keel had compound, complex curves, rib lets and other interesting flaws and features, which I am trying to preserve as much as possible. A note on the hardware; the cleats will be door pulls that I salvaged off of the SM 1 in 80 ft. of water off of Point Conception, almost a 1/2 century ago. The SM 1 sank in 1961. The leaded crystal knobs are from a centuries old Italian house my uncle was born in. My uncle brought these with him as a kid to America and he died 35 years ago, just short of 100 years old. If you do the math, these crystal knobs are a good match for a mahogany tree that was cut sometime around the same time, give or take. I want these doors to have a story of the rich history from which they came. Cheers! WOC.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/Keel_doors_1_Nov1823.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700348599)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/Keel_doors_2_Nov1823.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700348631)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/Keel_doors_3_Nov1823.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700348679)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/Keel_doors_4_Nov1823.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700348717)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/Keel_doors_6_Nov1823.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700348774)
Some guys have to best lumber
Some guys have the best machinery
Some guys have the best imagination
Some guys can take scrapcrap and turn it into functional art.
You're the rare woodworking craftsman that rolls all that together into one package.
I like the hardware story.
You doing it all by yourself or getting some help?
I have help with the sanding, other than that, the design and fabrication is just me. I run quite a few jobs in parallel in the shop and I enter the stream when appropriate.
A couple pictures of the old growth mahogany. It has a luster that just glows in the daylight. There is a thin coat of tung oil with jap dryer to get the colour to pop. Next week build up coats of 2k poly for protection.
Happy Thanksgiving!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/Keel_door_1_Nov2223.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700696259)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/Keel_door_2_Nov2223.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700696298)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/Keel_door_3_Nov2223.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700696327)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/turkey_july2022~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700696393)
Well someone didn't have a Happy Thanksgiving!! :D
Bea-u-tee-full!!
I got one of them hung today.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/bathroom_door_11_29_23.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1701307708)
Nice job! Absolutely stunning!
THAT is flippin' cool!
Well done! One of a kind.
A great piece of history and woodworking! Thanks for sharing. 8)
I'm trying to get the front door hung this week.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/office_door_1_12_26_23.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1703770465)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/office_door_2_12_26_23.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1703770494)
that is amazing. the surface is so weathered, and 1/8th inch in is solid and prestine. You really are the Wizard of Crap! With all due respect, plus 10%. 8) :)
The front door up and running. The brass cage light above was salvaged from the SM 1 in 80 feet of water by me about 40 years ago. I ended up with two entry doors and one passage from my portion of keel material sawn from the Highland Light. One of the coolest projects I've ever worked on. My father likely trained on this vessel back in the 40's at Annapolis. Tons of history. The building itself is cedar from the town of Paradise Ca. which was destroyed by the Camp Fire in 2018. Making wood live on. WOC !
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/Guest_house_front_door_3_Dec3023.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1703959760)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/Guest_house_inside_front_door_Dec3023.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1703959818)
The history makes it even more wonderful, awesome job !
Absolutely beautiful work! Interesting story and history!
A great nautical display.
Quote from: tule peak timber on December 30, 2023, 01:11:16 PMThe front door up and running. The brass cage light above was salvaged from the SM 1 in 80 feet of water by me about 40 years ago. I ended up with two entry doors and one passage from my portion of keel material sawn from the Highland Light. One of the coolest projects I've ever worked on. My father likely trained on this vessel back in the 40's at Annapolis.
Mr. Wizard,
What was the SM1 ?