Hello all,
Well, I've gone and done it; I've gotten myself into a jam for sure. I ordered the Model 1900 Linn Lumber Sawmill Kit built here Super Saw Frame Kit - Linn Lumber Sawmills (https://www.linnlumber.com/supersawframekit.html).
I'm new to the forum and new to sawmills as well.
Yes, I am freaking out now because I am worried about being able to actually build this mill. I bought the already fabricated and assembled 1900 saw head and now have to create the carriage and rails etc to support it.
Although this is not a full build, to me it's a "New Sawmill Build" thread and I am so looking forward to working with this amazing group of experts to learn from you and share in the experience of this partial build.
I do have some questions I'll attempt to post in a follow up to this one.
Question, are there any major disadvantages to having a 4-post design? I want a 4-post design. Something like this:
Pic Of Four Post
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/FourPostDesign.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669396370)
I had drawn up a rough sketch of what mine will look like due to the metal that I already have. I got 17 panels of thick wall 3/16" or ΒΌ" thick material for about $35 each so I want to use this metal as much as possible to cut down on costs.
They are 10' long and 36" wide at the rails and 40" wide to the tips of the bolt flanges.
Three Pics of metal panels
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/Panel_Stack_Top_View.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669400566)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/rect_tube_width_2_inch.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669400567)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/rect_tube_height_4_inch.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669400567)
The rectangular tubing is 2x4 inch thick wall.
If I cut one of them directly in half I think I will have the basis for my carriage. This was drawn with 40" pieces but I guess since the half of the metal frames are only 36" wide we would just do 36". My saw frame head I think does 32" max so not sure if that would work. I hate to cut up all the metal and have to fab the whole design. Am I lazy, well no, but I do want to saw sometime this next summer. J
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/MyDesignRoughDraft.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669396369)
Question I want to put my angle iron with the angle up, BUT, will this design casue sawdust to build up on the tracks?
Can I make a sweeper for them?
Does the angle iron need to be flat with one leg of the L facing stright up for the wheels?
What is the school of thought on the rails? I already have a bunch of 15' long angle iron its 1 3/8" on each side and is
galvanized but I think it would work with the wheels that I got (wheels https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0833WLYL8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0833WLYL8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details) )
Here is a pic of the angle iron sitting on the rail, it looks like a simple weld would hold it in place.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221123_163401146.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669400566)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/Angle_Iron_Pic.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669400566)
Another question
I need help with is how to do the carriage up and down section.
I wanted to use 8 of these (Smith Bearing FCR-2 $61.94 Track Roller, Stud, Flanged, Dia. 2 In. | Zoro.com (https://www.zoro.com/smith-bearing-track-roller-stud-flanged-dia-2-in-fcr-2/i/G4415013/)) to make it run smoothly but they are $62 each.
It would eat up all the savings made off of using second hand metal.
Is there another way to use a 2x4" square tubing piece that would allow it to slide smoothly?
I am at a loss at this point on how to do that part of the build.
I liked the design below but those are mega expensive.
Pic of lifter with flanged needle bearings
I did see this post here that had something but was not sure if the end result would slide easily.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/LiftSliderDesign.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669396370)
Crusarius' sawmill build - started with Linn Lumber basic kit in Sawmills and Milling (forestryforum.com) (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=97853.80)
What about this? Not sure where I grabbed them sorry.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/RollersUpAndDownForShaft1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669396369)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/RollersUpAndDownForShaft2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669396369)
I assume it did since Crusairius was able to mill at the end of his build saga. J
Another question:
Is ACME threaded rod the right way to go?
Can I get buy with using a cable winch and pulleys for a bit?
Are they good enough to get accurate lumber?
I want to mill a lot of store bought size 1.5"x3.5" lumber. I plan to get certified so I can inspect and "stamp" my own lumber so I can use it on a house/cabin I want to build. Looks like the next class / test is Dec 6th 2022 in Nashville. Structural Lumber Grading | Department of Forestry, Wildlife and Fisheries (tennessee.edu) (https://fwf.tennessee.edu/structural-lumber-grading/)
The threads are really expensive.
How many of you have wrecked your saw blade or wood due to the cable breaking on a boat winch?
Continued from above.....
Plan to use the cable winch design for lifting.
Using these for the pulleys for the lift system. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GFQBPM6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GFQBPM6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details)
I read a lot on here http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=75176.0 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=75176.0) and it seems like the ACME thread is better and more accurate but when I looked it was $25 a foot and the brass fitting for it was nearly $90 each not to mention the chains and sprockets etc.
I'm really trying to keep this build under $4-5K range.
This guy seemed to be able to build one pretty cheap, maybe I can find some of the parts like chain and sprockets and make something similar. https://youtu.be/4Na4aJZc8zk?t=1021 (https://youtu.be/4Na4aJZc8zk?t=1021)
Maybe the bar wrapping is the way to go, what if I use a much thicker bar too something like 3" or more that will make it plenty fast and still accurate plus less stress on the cables. Thoughts?
I have a bunch more questions, but I guess I better pause for a bit. :)
Quote from: SelcosSaw on November 25, 2022, 01:40:12 PMI read a lot on here http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=75176.0 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=75176.0) and it seems like the ACME thread is better and more accurate but when I looked it was $25 a foot and the brass fitting for it was nearly $90 each not to mention the chains and sprockets etc.
If you are are paying $25/ft, are looking at stainless or high tensile or large diameter?
I looked at this place
https://www.roton.com/family/acme-right-screws-and-nuts-7059286/ (https://www.roton.com/family/acme-right-screws-and-nuts-7059286/)
and ended up using mc master carr since i needed other items as well.
https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-rods/thread-type~acme/thread-size~1-5/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-rods/thread-type~acme/thread-size~1-5/)
Not sure what wt. capacity you need, i went with 1.5" i think which is close to the $25/ft from roton, but i should be lifting probably close to 2000 lbs once i add everything to the sawhead.
Currently 1.5x5tpi 6'(72") long is $118 on mc master carr, $20/ft.
I would venture to say 1" dia. max for the linn kit, which is what they offer on their parts/accessories page.
As for your v groove rollers, those are for running on the v up orientation of the angle but could probably work for running on the top of the leg, which can then be bolted down to make for easy replacement down the road when they wear out.
For lift guides, i used thk45 linear rails and bearings but way overkill for your application. I believe some cooks sawmills use chrome rod and some kind of material (uhmw, bronze) for their guides. Im not 100% on cooks, but i thought when watching their youtube vids, they mentioned the chrome guide rods. I could have went that route, but talking to the machine shop owner, he recommended 2.5" rods, which was almost 3x what it cost me to source the thk linear rails and bearings.
Quote from: charles mann on November 25, 2022, 03:04:37 PMAs for your v groove rollers, those are for running on the v up orientation of the angle but could probably work for running on the top of the leg, which can then be bolted down to make for easy replacement down the road when they wear out.
Hahaha I love it that you have faith that I'll be wearing out 1/4" angle iron. Made me laugh but I do see your point, I could bolt them down and then take them off later rather than have to cut off the welds. I figure that I'd have to cut off the welds anyway if the stuff goes bad. I'll think about that and add a note for it in the plan.
I also think that the led screws are really accurate where a boat winch and cables could be off by 1/4" or so if they get tangled or if one breaks in the middle of a saw it could be bad.
Thanks for the heads up of where to get them cheaper. I'll probably try to do 1" pieces and then use a gear and chain method of lifting them all at once.
Quote from: SelcosSaw on November 26, 2022, 07:24:52 PM
Quote from: charles mann on November 25, 2022, 03:04:37 PMAs for your v groove rollers, those are for running on the v up orientation of the angle but could probably work for running on the top of the leg, which can then be bolted down to make for easy replacement down the road when they wear out.
Hahaha I love it that you have faith that I'll be wearing out 1/4" angle iron. Made me laugh but I do see your point, I could bolt them down and then take them off later rather than have to cut off the welds. I figure that I'd have to cut off the welds anyway if the stuff goes bad. I'll think about that and add a note for it in the plan.
I also think that the led screws are really accurate where a boat winch and cables could be off by 1/4" or so if they get tangled or if one breaks in the middle of a saw it could be bad.
Thanks for the heads up of where to get them cheaper. I'll probably try to do 1" pieces and then use a gear and chain method of lifting them all at once.
Here is how i set mine up to power both acme screws. https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=103916.100 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=103916.100)
Another source for better clarification is a youtuber matt cremona and his sawmill build. Mine is 90% the same as his, since i purchased the plans of his mill from him. It might help you with figuring some things out. Only thing it did for me is cause me to spend a lot of money.
Why not use an electric atv winch for the lift with a double line. then no worry about being a click off. On your carriage wheels. do you know someone with a lathe, easy to drill shaft hole and turn a v in a piece of 3-4" shaft then tap in brass or bronze bushings.
Your 4"channel should work great for the carriage head with some flapper wheel clean up, you can box around channel just as easy as box tube. That material you have looks to me just what the home builder ordered would build the head carriage and the frame rails from it, but double the rails with one on top the other and if want super strong weld a 3rd run under that as it appears you have plenty of material, also make a suggestion that you make your track long enough to move the saw head away 3-4' from the longest wood you plan to saw (16-20'). with a good stout frame, you can easily install an axle to make a portable mill. I like the height of my portable mighty mite band mill as less bending over, the work is at waist level,
I was also going to say that I have looked at some 4" very hard plastic wheels with metal axle bushings that I considered for turning a v in, when scrounging material to build my own band mill, they would be cheaper and easily replaceable, before I found the Mity mite. I scrounged a couple of old wood shop band saws, one with 19" wheels and the other has over 30"wheels, and 5 sticks of 8"x1/2" x20' angle.
I was part way along the 'build it' route when I found the mitey mite.
I had a multi-sprocket chain setup that was hand crank for a bit then I used a wheelchair motor. That worked ok until it didn't (wore out the bearings on the sprockets). Then I upgraded to 1/2" ACME rods but I bought them from Surplus Center. They were ungraded and I stripped out one of the nuts. So then I bought 3/4" from McMaster and those are holding up. Got much longer bronze "nuts" so a lot more surface area of engaged threads.
For the wheels, I bought some cheap 3" snatch blocks (10 for something like $25). They worked pretty good (no bearings). I had a chunk of 4" bar (was a train like wheel on a filing cabinet system). I sliced those up into wheels and put a groove in them. Mounted ball bearings but still too small. Then I happened on to some 6" pulleys from a tailgate lift. They have needle bearings. Go big on your wheels and it makes rolling so much easier and will help to smooth out any imperfections in your track (joints). I set up for power drive but really didn't like it - and then fried the controller. If you're going to buy the wheels, go for a U profile rather than a V one. Then the much smaller contact area will not be bothered by sawdust build up. I run a U profile on the upright angle leg.
For my lift "bearings" on the verticals, I just used some UHMW (think white cutting board material from the Dollar Store) in some custom mounts. Works fine. There is a bit of play in my setup but that doesn't affect the cutting accuracy.
here are some useful links
Shopping for a mill in Sawmills and Milling (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=113838.msg1791658#msg1791658)
https://qualityfarmsupply.com/collections/cotton-picker-spindle-lubricant
I turned my own lead screws, approx 1" let's say maybe 22-24mm diameter 3mm trap thread (metric version of acme). Also turned nuts to sit under the beam, the nuts have a flange on them with oversized holes and the bolts aren't torqued right up, just snugged with Loctite in the threads. There's a ~1/4" sheet of rubber between the flanges and beam.
It works great anyway, I haven't touched them since the last post-paint assembly 3-4 years ago however long it's been. I have no experience with the cable style but I'm really happy with how mine work and suspect it's a whole lot more trouble free than cables. Approach your mark from above or below, let go of the button, and saw. Both sides are even etc, no worrying about snapping or movement etc.
I'm planning on building a bigger hydraulic mill at some point and will go with leadscrews again, for what that's worth haha. Lots of photos in gallery if you're bored.
Good luck keep us posted.
Quote from: charles mann on November 26, 2022, 08:38:33 PMAnother source for better clarification is a youtuber matt cremona and his sawmill build.
Whoa that guy built a huge mill! Good stuff there, I had not thought about buying plans for this but that might be a good option too. I do like the ACME rods now that I see them in action they are smooth and strong with no cable to snap and kill me. I'll be using the ACME rods.
Quote from: Iwawoodwork on November 26, 2022, 11:06:44 PMWhy not use an electric atv winch for the lift with a double line. then no worry about being a click off. On your carriage wheels. do you know someone with a lathe, easy to drill shaft hole and turn a v in a piece of 3-4" shaft then tap in brass or bronze bushings. Your 4"channel should work great for the carriage head with some flapper wheel clean up, you can box around channel just as easy as box tube.
I do have a brand new ATV winch I had never used thats a thought for the motor, I think using the ACME thread is the way I want to go because I just dont trust cheap cables on boat winches. :) Also, I just found out that the 2x4 steel is ONLY 3/16" of an inch thick, its not thin but its its not 1/4" like I had thought / hoped. Now I am questioning if it will be strong enough for this build. The stuff is heavy though I cant lift a panel by myself.
Ill get some pics of that here later today.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 27, 2022, 12:47:58 AMFor my lift "bearings" on the verticals, I just used some UHMW (think white cutting board material from the Dollar Store) in some custom mounts. Works fine. There is a bit of play in my setup but that doesn't affect the cutting accuracy.
Hey this is something that does make sense to me, put that nylon or material inside and it will slide along but I need to be sure I can replace it if slop gets too much. Cheap too LOL. I bought some small bearings but they are only about an inch in diameter and I'll try them but I suspect I'll need something more beefy. I see a common theme in all of your answers though. It seems that doing things Cheap is not the way of a sawyer! I hope I can get there at a midpoint though. Im sorry to hear your electronics and stuff went bad, I hope to add them later but I plan on doing manual for at least a year to truly understand the saw and how much time it will save me. Also I love this forum you ALL are so helpful and I really appreciate the time you put into replies since that is your most valuable resource. Thank you All for that.
Quote from: DDW_OR on November 27, 2022, 02:14:05 AMhere are some useful links Shopping for a mill in Sawmills and Milling https://qualityfarmsupply.com/collections/cotton-picker-spindle-lubricant
WOW and I thought I had read some things. :) Thank you for the links I'll read through that stuff its amazing the total cumulative volume of knowledge contained in this place and your minds.
I'm getting some flak from buddies that I bought the mill head and did not "make" the entire sawmill. But I just thought about it, this is my first mill, no one says it has to be my last, I'll build the next one from scratch with better metal if I fall in love with the hobby. Either way I am sure they will be hitting me up to just mill them a few boards here and there. hahahahah
Did they make their mill from ram material or do they have a mill?
Have they offered to help you build your mill, and if so, do you truly believe they will?
If no, tell them "buddies" to go pound sand.
Quote from: SelcosSaw on November 27, 2022, 09:46:44 AM
Quote from: DDW_OR on November 27, 2022, 02:14:05 AMhere are some useful links Shopping for a mill in Sawmills and Milling https://qualityfarmsupply.com/collections/cotton-picker-spindle-lubricant
WOW and I thought I had read some things. :) Thank you for the links I'll read through that stuff its amazing the total cumulative volume of knowledge contained in this place and your minds.
I'm getting some flak from buddies that I bought the mill head and did not "make" the entire sawmill. But I just thought about it, this is my first mill, no one says it has to be my last, I'll build the next one from scratch with better metal if I fall in love with the hobby. Either way I am sure they will be hitting me up to just mill them a few boards here and there. hahahahah
that is just a fraction of the knowledge on this site.
sounds like you got bitten by the mill bug
getting logs into boards is only 40% of the work
the other 60% is getting it into usable lumber
Quote from: charles mann on November 27, 2022, 11:13:01 AMIf no, tell them "buddies" to go pound sand.
I think its all fun and games. I know that several will help me build it with actual man hours. One of my buddies bought a new mill its still in the crate 3 months later due to some sickness but I hope to get over there and help him assemble it and I am sure he will also come help me weld and grind. My brother was able to use a mill for a few weeks and he got bit by the bug too so he will be helping me on the build. Im really worried about the 3/16" thickness of the metal, I just hate to go buy all new and spend so much more. I think I'll just do smaller logs until I can upgrade it later on.
Quote from: DDW_OR on November 27, 2022, 02:36:20 PMgetting logs into boards is only 40% of the work the other 60% is getting it into usable lumber
I am currently building a log cabin, a new shop table, a fence around a field, some picknick tables, a few pieces of ornate mantles, a couple of large beams for the front porch, wood for a wood porch swing, and for pole barn, and the list goes on ALL IN MY HEAD, you could say I'll be enjoying the 40% for sure and I'm not sure on the 60% but I hope I can turn this stuff into usable lumber. I have 15.5 acres in Jasper TN that I plan to pull logs from, its got some black walnut and oak etc, but it is steep so not sure how to do that. I may just try to buy a truck load of logs from some lumber companies. I worked about 1/2 the day on the mill. I mocked up the first rail section with the angle iron on top went through about 8 cutting blades on the grinder and broke my cheap harbor freight band saw blade (that thing frustrated me so badly I think its junk so I am taking it back and will buy a real one probably will cost me three times as much but I just cannot abide junk).
Quote from: SelcosSaw on November 27, 2022, 10:16:05 PMIm really worried about the 3/16" thickness of the metal
I used 2x4x1/4" tube for my mill track with 2x3x1/4" angle (3" up). It is SO heavy. I wish I used 3/16". You will be fine with what you have.
please add Jasper TN to your profile.
i am now on 1.5 acres
still have the 166 in Oregon ( selling in 2024 )
will be cutting logs of oak, maple, black walnut, madrona, and white cedar to mill into boards
then dead stack, no stickers, onto a 25 ft gooseneck trailer
and sticker-stack in Montana
in mid 2023 i have over 10 large fir trees in Montana to hire someone to cut down (buildings and houses)
then i will mill into 8' and 10' 2x4 and 2x6
most of the Montana trees are over 22 inch Diameter
3/16" wall will be fine.
Im using 3x3x1/4 wall for my carriage, 5x5x1/4 wall for the saw head and 2x6x1/4 wall for the mill bed and it is plenty sturdy enough.
Quote from: charles mann on November 28, 2022, 12:53:19 AM3/16" wall will be fine.
Thank you for this!
I feel better that a few of you have said it would work. Saves me a ton of money too. :)
Quote from: DDW_OR on November 27, 2022, 11:27:54 PMplease add Jasper TN to your profile.
I did try to find the spot to do this. The only thing I saw was a status update area so I'll keep looking. I figure there has to be at least one other sawyer here in TN hahahaha
I worked a little on Sunday mocking up the rails and starting the physical design of the carriage.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221128_000413403.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669645897)
My bandsaw crapped out cheap Harbor Freight $500 saw so I'll take that back and get something nicer that works.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221128_004457296.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669645898)
Made it 99% through this single cut and the thing came off the tracks about 10 times. I tried to adjust and figure it out but I think its just crap. I do not recommend.
Here is the raw start of my carriage.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221128_144829135.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669652888)
Extra metal we cut off for use to brace and build it out. Also a pic of the wheels I plan to use on the rails.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221128_144841550.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669652887)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221128_145602013.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669652887)
And my dog insisted she get a spot. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221128_144835110.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669653066)
Those wheels look great, appear close to the same size as the ones on my mity mite mill. I have seen photos of home-built band mills on you tube and the forestry forum that have been constructed of lighter material than you have, think pallet racking or the electrical trays and they are cutting wood. what you have will be more than fine.
Quote from: SelcosSaw on November 28, 2022, 09:26:35 AM
Quote from: DDW_OR on November 27, 2022, 11:27:54 PMplease add Jasper TN to your profile.
I did try to find the spot to do this. The only thing I saw was a status update area so I'll keep looking. I figure there has to be at least one other sawyer here in TN hahahaha
Click on your user name, and your profile will appear. There you can click on "modify profile" to update and include your location as detailed as you want.
Beenthere beat me to it
click on
Forum Profile
I have no idea how I missed this build when you started it. Apparently, your mind works like mine. Thats a lot of posts :)
ok, so first thing. my entire mill is either 3/16 or 1/8" tube. there is absolutely no reason to go with greater than that unless you plan on drop testing the logs for damage.
I have the threaded rods, I tried to replace them with cables and chains but not wanting to invest a ton of money made it cost prohibitive. My biggest issue with the threaded rod is the speed the head raises. it is very slow. but going down the speed is perfect for setting the cut on each move. I do still plan to add a torsion spring for lift assist to make it move up faster.
I ended up adding skateboard bearings to my mast to help with the friction. The metal on metal sleeve actually worked very well and with no issues. the only reason I added the bearings was to try to preserve the paint and not scrape it off. Funny thing is the bearings crush the paint and peel it off anyhow.
I also added scrapers to my track which is a piece of 3/8" flat stock welded to my 2x6x.188 rails. My scrapers are a piece of 1/8" aluminum machined to fit snugly over the track. The have a slotted hole to allow them to float. they do a very good job keeping tracks clean. With the V groove rollers and track setup the way you have it I highly recommend scrapers. You will get sawdust buildup and once the rollers go over it will not come off without a ton of effort.
you were talking about making your carriage 36" wide? Even with my mill having a 31" cut width when equipped with the shorter blade (I can run 2 blade lengths) I would not even consider making the carriage that narrow. The biggest reason for this is logs are not nearly as straight as you think they are. This is very obvious when you set them on the mill. so if you only have 36" between the posts that means the log and all of the parts that may stick out have to be less than that. I have 48" between my uprights and have wished for more on many occasions!!!!!
Woodmizer does it right!!!! the cantilever head is the way to go!!!
Now that I am subscribed to this thread I will be checking up on your progress. I love new mill builds. I learned a ton on my build and if it wasn't for the cost of materials, I would be building version 2.5.
Quote from: Crusarius on November 28, 2022, 02:33:06 PM....I ended up adding skateboard bearings ......I highly recommend scrapers. You will get sawdust buildup and once the rollers go over it will not come off without a ton of effort.
i also get bearings from used rollerskates. each wheel has 2.
then re-do the cheap glide rockers using the bearings, carriage bolt, and nylock nut
also maybe used on the back edge of the band blade for guides.
scrapers are a MUST.
here is my blade guides
the newer guides are the same and can be greased
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/IMG_0411.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1460858200)
this is the blade tension gauge
i run it at 1,000 to 1,500 pounds
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/IMG_0360.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1505539166)
the black rod the blades are hanging on is a T-handle to crank the tension
the blade guide arm is adjustable by an electric motor.
But timberking does not have it weather tight so water gets into the motor housing and rusts the motor so it does not move.
so after the second motor failed, i removed it and now manually move the arm
Quote from: beenthere on November 28, 2022, 12:23:34 PMClick on your user name, and your profile will appear. There you can click on "modify profile" to update and include your location as detailed as you want.
Thank you I updated stuff now. :)
Quote from: Crusarius on November 28, 2022, 02:33:06 PMyou were talking about making your carriage 36" wide? Even with my mill having a 31" cut width when equipped with the shorter blade (I can run 2 blade lengths) I would not even consider making the carriage that narrow. The biggest reason for this is logs are not nearly as straight as you think they are. This is very obvious when you set them on the mill. so if you only have 36" between the posts that means the log and all of the parts that may stick out have to be less than that. I have 48" between my uprights and have wished for more on many occasions!!!!!
Thank you so much for all the replies. I'll have to go ahead and bite the bullet and build this thing wider. Since I am using a store bought head from Linn Lumber its supposed to do 36" cuts so I need to just make the rails wider. I think I can still use the panels I have maybe cut one long wase down to the needed added width and then just weld two sides together with another outside piece of metal for the rail to sit on.
Thanks too for the tips on the bearings I want this thing to run smooth since i'll be doing the up down as a manual operator for a while. I am not an accomplished metal worker so my confidence in welds and stuff is low but I also love to do that kind of work huge satisfaction in it.
Quote from: DDW_OR on November 28, 2022, 03:06:02 PMthis is the blade tension gauge i run it at 1,000 to 1,500 pounds
Super cool add there with a tension guage. I love how you all have such amazing mills and I know they represent significant investments of time. Wish I had started this at 40 years old hahahahah.
Part of me feels like I need to wait on the head unit to come in mid December, but I just cant stop trying to get ahead on the build so I'll get these rails fixed to the right width and then get it running smooth up and down as much as I can before the head kit comes in.
If you all had to say, what part of the saw process needs the most accuracy? Blade tension, tracking, the rails, the up and down slop? I guess you can say everything, but I really want to know the top 3 things to just slow down on and get right as I tend to move fast sometimes and miss things.
Quote from: DDW_OR on November 28, 2022, 03:13:32 PM
the blade guide arm is adjustable by an electric motor.
But timberking does not have it weather tight so water gets into the motor housing and rusts the motor so it does not move.
so after the second motor failed, i removed it and now manually move the arm
they wont continue to warranty their faulty design? Or did you decide to stop messing with warranty work and went manual for less headache?
Selco, get as much of a jump as you want. Tack weld everything then after the head comes in and you can test fit everything full weld it. Tacks are easy to change things.
I do recommend a 4' wide bed. It does not take much modifications to make you mill capable enough to run more than one length blade. I have my setup to run 158" and 176" and will not take much to make it capable to do a longer band as well. I would just need to add a small amount to 2 tubes.
Do your best to balance your head so the threaded rods are not side loaded like mine are. The Linn design works but with the massive side load on the rods it makes for alot of friction and that is why my raise is so slow.
Quote from: SelcosSaw on November 28, 2022, 05:13:04 PMIf you all had to say, what part of the saw process needs the most accuracy? Blade tension, tracking, the rails, the up and down slop?
1. Tracking - need to have the ability to adjust the roller guides multiple ways - Up/down, Forward/backward, Tilt up/down, tilt left/right - so 4 degrees of adjustment. Without that ability, you'll be fighting your mill all the time.
2. Blade tension - having enough and holding will get you good cuts.
3. Rails - One section of my rails droop (weld shrink caused the rails to 'smile') about 1/8" in the middle of a 16' section. Doesn't really affect my timbers too much. Make sure you have enough log bunks to support your logs.
4. Up/down slop - that is easily mediated but dropping below your desired cut and raising up to your mark each time. Eats up a few extra seconds but not bad.
Quote from: Crusarius on November 28, 2022, 07:20:49 PMI do recommend a 4' wide bed.
I'll go ahead and do a 4 foot build it seems like great wisdom to have the max I can support and then just cut smaller logs rather than wishing I had gone bigger.
I doubt I'll do logs over 30" x 16 because they seem too heavy and I am not sure how to pick them up with my mini excavator yet. I do have a claw but I think it will wreck the outer wood.
Quote from: Crusarius on November 28, 2022, 07:21:48 PM
Do your best to balance your head so the threaded rods are not side loaded like mine are. The Linn design works but with the massive side load on the rods it makes for alot of friction and that is why my raise is so slow.
I need to go look at some pics of yours again, I think it was in part based on the Linn designs? I'll try to get things to balance out. I tell you what, there are so so so many things to consider I need to put all of this into a project plan and work it like my job. Its not a job, I enjoy building and satisfaction of a job well done so I just need to not lose momentum and get this thing started and then done. I'll do what you say tomorrow and start to talk up 4 foot rails. Oh that reminds me
When you say 4 foot bed, is that the distance between the V wheels? Is that where I need to get 4 foot wide? Need to know this so I can do the math to make it work out.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 28, 2022, 09:31:26 PM1. Tracking - need to have the ability to adjust the roller guides multiple ways - Up/down, Forward/backward, Tilt up/down, tilt left/right - so 4 degrees of adjustment. Without that ability, you'll be fighting your mill all the time. 2. Blade tension - having enough and holding will get you good cuts. 3. Rails - One section of my rails droop (weld shrink caused the rails to 'smile') about 1/8" in the middle of a 16' section. Doesn't really affect my timbers too much. Make sure you have enough log bunks to support your logs. 4. Up/down slop - that is easily mediated but dropping below your desired cut and raising up to your mark each time. Eats up a few extra seconds but not bad.
Nice list for sure.
Im not sure if the roller guides are adjustable on the Linn Lumber head. If they are not then I plan to buy the ones (cant remember name) that everyone else gets from Cooks.
I really like the idea DDW_OR used with a blade tension meter. Not sure how that was done but I think I'll try that. Maybe thats why my metal band saw was jacked up I kept cranking it up higher and higher tension in frustration. hmmm...
I am NOT a by trade welder. I have a wire feed and it does stick too, but I am not proficient at either so if there is some way to keep from having this smile due to weld shrink I'll have to research that. I think if it dropped down 1/8th of an inch that would affect lumber for sure right as the blade would dip over that smile span. Cant you cut and reweld?
I'll add a lot of log bunks (I think those are the slats the logs sit on. I plan to use metal maybe with a wood top part.
I can see where slop would be annoying when you are in your groove and have to stop. I'll be doing manual up down for a while and hope to tune most of the slop out by the time I automate that function.
Thanks again for all of this data and nuggets perfect!
I had 42" between my head "legs" which matched my rails on my V1.0 mill. I rebuilt the head/carriage so its 53" between the legs on V1.5. Also, my guides were adjusted to slide out a little further so my overall cut is somewhere around 46". But that width is limited to about 4" thick slabs before the band wheels get in the way reducing the width down to 44".
Quote from: SelcosSaw on November 28, 2022, 09:53:05 PMI doubt I'll do logs over 30" x 16 because they seem too heavy and I am not sure how to pick them up with my mini excavator
I had a couple 46-48" x 35' pine logs that the trucker said scaled out at 20,000 pounds each. My SkyTrak can lift 9,000 pounds. I picked up one end at a time and eventually got them on the mill! Took all day to mill one log but it was a LOT of wood. If there is a will, there is a way ;)
As far as eliminating the smile in my track, I could mess around with running a weld bead to pull it back but I haven't found it to be much of an issue with cut consistency. I did learn from that that (Tom) I didn't make the same error on the other two sections of track.
You can pick a 30"x16' log up, as mentioned, by picking one up one end, then the other end and with the swing, push it up on the mill, or stick out and swing at the same time to use 2 functions to get the extra umph to get it up.
I forget what my bed actually ended up at. would have to go check. But I know I have 48" between the uprights on my mast.
48" is a nice number because I buy material in 24' sticks. so 48" does not leave me any drop.
Quote from: Crusarius on November 29, 2022, 09:11:46 AMBut I know I have 48" between the uprights on my mast.
I'll do 48 too as that makes the most sense for materials. I hope to cut some parts and get a mock up tonight so I better go get started.
Also I like the idea of loading half a log at a time makes sense to cut down on weight. Charles Man good little nugget there.
If your going to plan on loading half a log at a time I would rig up some sort of platform or strap to hold the end of the log up so when you lift the other side it does not jump off. Ask me how I learned this one :)
Quote from: SelcosSaw on November 29, 2022, 05:56:51 PM
Quote from: Crusarius on November 29, 2022, 09:11:46 AMBut I know I have 48" between the uprights on my mast.
Also I like the idea of loading half a log at a time makes sense to cut down on weight. Charles Man good little nugget there.
I was just agreeing with @ljohnsaw (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=20640) and give him the credit for initially saying how he manages heavy oversized logs.
Quote from: Crusarius on November 29, 2022, 07:28:06 PM
If your going to plan on loading half a log at a time I would rig up some sort of platform or strap to hold the end of the log up so when you lift the other side it does not jump off. Ask me how I learned this one :)
2500-3500 winch mounted to the front of the mill with a remote and once the first half/section of the log is on the mill, pull tension on the log while grabbing the back half of the log and winch and lift at the same time. You could even fab up 2 folding back stops between the last 2 bunks of the mill, one on each side to prevent it from rolling off as well.
Quote from: charles mann on November 29, 2022, 09:21:12 PMYou could even fab up 2 folding back stops between the last 2 bunks of the mill, one on each side to prevent it from rolling off as well.
Something like the ones they use on the loading ramps? Where once the log goes past it cant go backward? I guess it could be spring loaded and small enough but it would also need to drop down out of sight with the other logs tops like if the log stop goes down to this height then the log catch does as well. Interesting idea. Thanks ljohnsaw too for the ideas.
It was storming here and flooding last night so I didnt get much done other than design planning and getting the bandsaw ready to send back. I googled how to tune it so the blade does not fall off and I think I can do this but I only have 90 days to do the return so I need to test it out. It was so frustrating that I almost want to go buy the nice one. It went up now to about 2K so that is steep. I have to decide if I am in this metal working for life or not. Here is the vid on how to fix your harbor freight saw if you have one.
How to set blade tracking on the 4X6 Band Saw. Keep that blade from falling off! Harbor Freight - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHDm5RlVMzs)
I guess you could make it like the load ramps, but i was speaking of simply just a set/pair of back stops (think wm back stops) and install one on each side (drive and drive) between the last 2 bunks. Something to keep the logs from rolling off, just as back stops are made to do.
Other than drawing it out and posting a pic of the drawing, i dont know to explain it other than how i did above. If posting pics here wasnt such a nightmare and i didnt have to read the directions and do each step as i read, i would gladly post a pic of what im trying to convey.
I think you are better off with loading ramps and a winch. I have anything but a level area for my sawmill and trying to move large logs on this slight hill with the 28hp tractor gets very exciting very fast.
QuoteIf posting pics here wasnt such a nightmare and i didnt have to read the directions and do each step as i read, i would gladly post a pic of what im trying to convey.
Really!! Don't understand that "nightmare" comment at all. Just click on the blue highlighted line "Click here to add Photos to post" and you are taken to your gallery to select which album you want to put your pic. Then browse your computer or phone for that pic in .jpg format and open it. It will load into your gallery and a small box will appear "Add to post". Click that and say OK. WallaWalla bang bang and your pic is in your post.
Quote from: beenthere on November 30, 2022, 04:26:38 PM
QuoteIf posting pics here wasnt such a nightmare and i didnt have to read the directions and do each step as i read, i would gladly post a pic of what im trying to convey.
Really!! Don't understand that "nightmare" comment at all.
Just click on the blue highlighted line "Click here to add Photos to post" and you are taken to your gallery to select which album you want to put your pic. Then browse your computer or phone for that pic in .jpg format and open it. It will load into your gallery and a small box will appear "Add to post". Click that and say OK. WallaWalla bang bang and your pic is in your post.
It may be easy for others, but not for ME. I have to many penguins already on the iceberg, attempting to remember how to post pics means a penguin that is far more valuable is knocked off.
I dont like the multi step process beyond copy/paste, do not like having to email pics from phone to computer just to upload pics. So yes, its a nightmare for me.
That should be enough said
Whatever.. but am thinking you will rescue that penguin soon and be happier with no more nightmares.. 8) :D :D
Quote from: beenthere on November 30, 2022, 06:44:25 PM
Whatever.. but am thinking you will rescue that penguin soon and be happier with no more nightmares.. 8) :D :D
If its ok with you, i would rather keep my work penguins where they are instead of kicking one off to remember how to post pics.
Sorry if its an inconvenience to others that my brain isnt absorbing and retaining non-repetitive less vital tasks.
Quote from: charles mann on November 30, 2022, 04:51:58 PMI have to many penguins already on the iceberg
Reminds me of my Calc 3 professor. There were a couple students that just kept asking questions - same thing over and over. So he started talking about rain barrels in the "olden days". They were put under the downspout to collect rain water. When they got full, they would overflow. Then he looked at one of the "trouble makers" and said, "YOU have a teacup!". They didn't get it but the rest of the class had a good laugh.
Just to be sure, not commenting on the size of
your rain barrel iceberg!
@ljohnsaw (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=20640) the burg used to be pretty big, but global warming has made it smaller. :D Seriously though, the past few yrs iv noticed my mental retention abilities are diminishing. What some would consider relatively easy, is becoming harder to learn/retain. Maybe the va was right, tbi, but i refused to hear hear it some yrs back. So now i have choose what tasks are more important to retain.
It is really hard to work on this every night now that I am back from "vacation". I had to force myself to go and untack the rail section so that I can widen my tracks to 48-50 inches. I found that there are 17" outside width that I can cut off of one of the panels of metal and then weld to the other one to form 53" total outside width. Then I'll tack the angle iron back on again and it should be 52" from top cent or rail to top center of rail. Im worried about flex now though since this is a weld on, but it can be welded the whole length of the 10' track so I'll get it flush and true and square and tack it quickly to try to make sure no heat expansion etc affect it. I am not world class welder I found out my tacks were more like full on welds and took a bit to cut off. But I did work on my saw a bit more and got it cutting so that saved me about $1500 as the one I was looking at went up just in time for Christmas. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221201_030805498.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669900560)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221201_030753581.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669900560)
I also cut my roller table down so it would match the 24" height of the saw table. Things are moving even if slow.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221201_030749915.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1669900560)
Be sure to weld small runs. I was able to warp/bow 2x6x1/4" tubing bc i welding all the way around each tubing, non stop. After cutting the bunk tubings off the warped frame, i doubled up my frame support and made little 1-1.5" stitch welds moving from bunk to bunk, end to end, over 20', trying not concentrate to much heat in any one spot for long
Quote from: charles mann on December 01, 2022, 10:34:34 AMBe sure to weld small runs. I was able to warp/bow 2x6x1/4" tubing bc i welding all the way around each tubing, non stop. After cutting the bunk tubings off the warped frame, i doubled up my frame support and made little 1-1.5" stitch welds moving from bunk to bunk, end to end, over 20', trying not concentrate to much heat in any one spot for long
Thank you thank you these little bits of knowledge are going to help me out big time. I'll weld small tacks all around to hold it and then merge them in closer between until its all good.
Question: Is it wise to do four corners then middle then between each weld? I worry about the rail being pulled as things cool too. At least it wont be one long burn like you warned against.
Also dumb question here but does the galvanized rail still put off deadly fumes or dust with grinding or is that only when its being welded on? I forgot who mentioned that about. I read this and some others but did not see lots on grinding the stuff.
Welding On Galvanized Metals | OSHA Safety Manuals (safetymanualosha.com) (https://www.safetymanualosha.com/welding-on-galvanized-metals/)
Maybe I need to scrap those rails and just bite the bullet and buy fresh steel. I am a very bad cheap ask so this goes against my nature hahahahah...
On the galvanized, when grinding just wear a n95 or cheap dust mask and when welding the Galvan just go to the local thrift store and buy a couple cheap box fans (cheap this time of year) and place them so the fumes are blown away from you.
I second wearing a mask when grinding, cutting and welding galvanized steel and using box fans to blow the fumes away when welding that stuff.
I did find out that muriatic acid will dissolve the galvanic coating off steel. I couldnt find the pipe fittings i needed in black pipe for my forge, so i "boiled" the coating off. But using the acid puts off some very toxic fumes. You would have to get some 2-2.5" pvc pipe, only one cap for end and enough muriatic to fill the pipe with the steel in the tube.
The above is what I would do, if I were going to use the angle as rails. Iv gotten galv poising once before and it was NOT fun, so i try to use non galvanized metal or boil it off with acid.
As for tacking, 4 corner tacks and one in the middle works. Just play connect the dots.
DO NOT FULL WELD THE RAIL!!!!!!!!
In case you missed it.
DO NOT FULL WELD THE RAIL!!!!!!!
there is no reason to full weld the rail. It is a complete waste of consumables and not necessary. Plus, adding all of that extra heat is a sure way to cause the main rails to warp or sag. It is difficult to develop a feel for welding stresses in materials. Once you develop the feel you can basically twist the members during weld then untwist them with continual welding.
What you need to do is about 1.5" long weld every 12". I would also start at one end and work your way down. This will allow you to adjust the rail as you go. if you weld both ends and the material expands it will lift or bow and you will not be able to get it back down or straight.
Now the proper technique is weld on the start of both sides of the rail 1/2" long then move up 12" and weld the left side of the rail then move another 12" and weld the right side. This will give you 24" between welds on each side. Run that all the way to the end. then you come back and fill in the blanks starting at the beginning again. that will minimize any chance of excessive heat warping the main rail.
Also make sure the rail is full supported not just at the ends. Best to set it flat on a flat floor or bench.
Quote from: charles mann on December 01, 2022, 03:01:53 PMI did find out that muriatic acid will dissolve the galvanic coating off steel.
That stuff is interesting. I used to mix it with Peroxide to chew up copper clad boards to make my own circuit boards. I will be careful with grinding and welds and use PPE as needed. Thank you all.
Quote from: Crusarius on December 01, 2022, 04:57:50 PMIn case you missed it.
I actually did miss it. I will follow the method that you all have prescribed. I will weld the extra width 17 inches of track all the way down to make sure there is no flex and or warping. I really wanted single piece iron across but this stuff is thick enough so a full weld there using the methods mentioned should work. :)
I have been struggling and stuck on this for days now. How the heck am I going to build something that can run up and down the vertical masts of the mill? I want something that does not just slide metal across metal, but finally I gave up and drew that and then added some cut outs that I hope to use to put some bearings or something into to hold off 1/16" from metal on metal. Here is what I came up with so far. I may try needle bearings or just regular bearings on a 1/2" bold with some kind of tensioner I am just struggling to come up with ideas. I know should just be able to copy someone and not reinvent but it seems like such a simple problem. I keep looking around and see that many people just do metal on metal. I am not using square tubing though so I have to build my own box.
What do you all think? Bad? Good? Needs more holes? Its going to be made out of 1/4" steel.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/CarriageUpDownBlock.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670081210)
My mill slides metal on metal and is lifted with acme rods and hadn't presented any problems. Other than it's not real fast going up and down. The longer you make the sliding portion the more stable your head will be if that makes sense.
Here is my V1.0 head with 2x4x1/4" tube cut to wrap around the posts and lined with UHMW:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171103_a.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1509741934)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171103_b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1509741945)
These are just the top ones. The top and bottom of the head box are 24" apart.
Moved them to V2.0:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210329.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1617069871)
Note how close they are together, vertically. What I noticed is without the vertical separation between the top and bottom guides, my mill will set up some pretty serious oscillation from side to side when the head is up at the top (milling BIG logs). I'll be adding some bracing since it is at home, off the snowy hill for the winter.
Or, I may redo and have some adjustable roller bearings that I've seen on some other mills. Hard call since I'm only really concerned about the oscillations.
Quote from: JRWoodchuck on December 03, 2022, 11:10:52 AMThe longer you make the sliding portion the more stable your head will be if that makes sense.
I was going with a foot long but I think maybe doing it 2 foot would be better. I know I saw someone to it too long and it then made the saw fail to get a last 1" cut. thank you for the intel though.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 03, 2022, 12:32:32 PMNote how close they are together, vertically. What I noticed is without the vertical separation between the top and bottom guides, my mill will set up some pretty serious oscillation from side to side when the head is up at the top (milling BIG logs).
Looks super smooth that UHMW may be just the trick. I will need to add space to my box to accommodate that extra material. I see how you got the bolts / screws to hold it in place and they are recessed into the material. I like this. I know someone else said to use dollar store cutting boards I saw it but it did not register. I tell you all and you probably know when you get stuck on a design problem its all consuming I think I woke up one night dreaming of having to use a hydralic jack to go up and down because the metal got stuck bwhahahahahah :)
Thank you all! I feel like I am past the roadblock and have a direction to go now.
I called Linn Lumber yesterday and spoke to Chris, super nice folk there. Well he told me he may be sending my stuff NEXT WEEK at first I was freaking out like "oh nooo" but I thought it can sit a month if it has to while I build the carriage frame etc. Plus I need it here to do the final math for sizing. :) Now I am just happy that its on the way and Il'll get some pics of me loving on it with a beer in hand later. haha
Quote from: SelcosSaw on December 03, 2022, 12:55:07 PMI know someone else said to use dollar store cutting boards I saw it but it did not register.
That was me. ;) I happen to pick up a bunch of UHMW but the cutting boards are pretty much the same thing. What is not clearly seen is the two small (1/4-20) bolts that attach the C part to the angle protrude on the inside of the C part. The thick, wide piece of UHMW has some holes that fit over the heads and prevent it from slipping out. But the end pieces would work out over time. So I just ran a screw up in the joints and, viola, fixed in place. They don't look nearly as pretty now after 5 or 6 years, though.
Hahah sorry about that my bad. I get to reading so many posts and names just flow together. I'll go out today and see if I can find some. :) I bet its tripple the cost now they need to call the dollar store the $5 store. hahah
I think you are over thinking your saw head frame, just use the\e material you have, the channel frames, will make a sturdy frame and for your slides up and down just split/widen a piece of the channel so you have room to put the bread board uhmv on three sides on each post. just weld up your post with the channel facing outwards. You mentioned wood bunks, why, you have all the great channel that would make great bunks, you can always cap the channel edge with strips of uhmv or hardwood.
An Admin might be coming along to comment soon ;) No need to use Quote when you are addressing the previous post. It just adds fluff that is not necessary to the thread.
Also, for future reference, when quoting it usually best to only highlight the pertinent part of the post you are addressing. From your above quote, it is clear to me that you used the highlight (click and drag) when you could have just used the "Quote" link. You can go back to your post by using the "Modify" at the upper right of your post (only available to you) and delete unnecessary information. You had highlighted too much and sucked in my profile info from the left of my post. Not trying to be snarky, just trying to educate about the finer details of posting on the FF.
I am with ljohnsaw. I like his guides better than mine. I would not hesitate to copy his.
how are they holding up? be nice to see now pictures if you could.
I agree Johnsaws design looks really simple if they are pushing outwards and only need to be on 3 sides. The shape of my material though is thin 2" edge inside and 4" flats facing front and back but I still think that might be ok. I'll post a pic of my raw metal for the carriage I've done nothing on it other than cut it at this point as I am waiting for some metal to help brace.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221128_144829135~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670386036)
The flat channel will be down with the wheels on it. Rough draft looks like this but I think it needs some flare so I may cut some angles and make it not so boxy.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/ThreeViewOfCarriageDraft.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670386233)
I've got to fix my roof, last night water was dripping on my father who lives with me and the poor man has dementia and called me at work today to tell me about it said it was "no big deal he just tried to put a towel on top of his head and sleep through it rather than wake me up" broke my heart so I'll be fixing the roof first then back to the build. :) Super strong winds and massive amounts of rain will finally get through even a metal roof if its not done right (I bought this place knowing there may be issues).
I think having your C channel with the UHMW pointing out to the ends would work. The 2" inside each end with maybe 1" hanging on the 4" sides. Since you already have the frames welded and square, I wouldn't cut and re-weld just to make it pretty. A good welded gusset in the corners (long ways) maybe 4 or 5" on a side will keep it from racking side to side.
A few things to add just to give you some thought material.
Galvanize
Welding/Grinding or torch cutting.
keep fresh air to "you" with fans or whatever, outside is best not cooped up in a building.
pay attention not to be blowing too aggressively on welding area, but again on or kinda towards "you".
If you are in a closed building, using a fan to blow galv fumes already in the air back to you... warning.
""IF"" you do get sick I always "heard" drink milk,. I myself don't ever remember getting more than a little sick to to my stomach. and just walk away, take a break.
**Edit; ** Another method is not to work with galv for long periods of time, like earlier stated, take breaks, get away from it.
If I had it, I would use it.(galv or any other metal on hand that would serve well)
**And it doesn't take much tac weld to hold a track to a frame or carriage.. Agree ""Don't"" solid weld.
The mast metal to metal.
Just my thoughts,. I think or feel you may be overthinking the amount of wear(not intended ugly)
You are only sliding the cutting mass up and down vertically,. yes there will be some wear over a Long Period of time,. keep in mind that is a slow movement, Not a heavy friction drag or not a constant movement like say a sleeve bearing on a trailer tire carrying 800 lbs of fire wood a mile every day several times a day.
A spray or squirt of oil, WD40 or grease will ease that even more.
I think your biggest enemy would be binding and the longer the posts and further apart the guides are speaking top to bottom the less that will be.
I do the same thing though, for instance.
On my wood splitter where the pusher slides on the beam to push the wood through the wedge.
I keep a small oil can with chain bar oil and keep a film on beam... just where "it" slides.
So I do get your concerns.
But my pusher is probably 80-100 lbs 1" material sliding on a 1" thick 8" H beam. with a 6" cylinder. in use for 20+ yrs.
and its split a LLOOOOTTTT of wood.
you are doing fine by the way.
slow and steady,. life does get in the way of progress.
you may want to change up your carriage design. currently I would not be worried about the strength of your design vertically or front to back.
What I would recommend is making it taller and putting a box on top with diagonals. for left to right support. Without the left to right support your carriage is gonna do a dance like you wouldn't believe. I made that mistake on mine and had to add some special bracing to it. But it ended up working out pretty good in the end.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/IMG_2282.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1508174558)
This is what I ended up doing to minimize the dance. Could have used more but ended up making a pretty big difference.
Quote from: Lectro88 on December 07, 2022, 07:30:53 AMJust my thoughts,. I think or feel you may be overthinking the amount of wear(not intended ugly)
I think several of you have said this and I appreciate the candor, I am totally over thinking it. I'm hoping my brother will come out this weekend and help me break through on the idea. If the nylon plastic does not get here at least I'll be able to start cutting and forming the sliders he's a way better welder. I really appreciate all the advice and knowedge you share and the encouragement it sure is a slow burn project but I just cant help but thinking it feels like I am working with 50 experts standing around watching every move and helping me through any hard parts or sharing what not to do as much as what to do and in the end I think I will have an amazing mill that I'll hand down to family for generations. :)
Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 07, 2022, 12:26:32 AMI think having your C channel with the UHMW pointing out to the ends would work. The 2" inside each end with maybe 1" hanging on the 4" sides. Since you already have the frames welded and square, I wouldn't cut and re-weld just to make it pretty. A good welded gusset in the corners (long ways) maybe 4 or 5" on a side will keep it from racking side to side.
Thank you for this. I put it up today on the rails after I welded the wheels part way on and it was wobbly as heck. I'll need lots of gussets and braces like Johnsaw pointed out and Crusarius too. I'll post some pics in this thread.
Crusarius great pic! I know the effort to get them up and posted so much appreciated. I see how you did that, and I think that will work well. I plan to have a piece on top that matches the piece where the wheels are attached but is the 2x4 square tube instead of channel. I'll have to put a lot of little braces all over because in the pic I just had clamps and wood and it was rickety to say the least. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221207_193146487.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670474145)
I welded "tac" the metal wheels into the channel and rolled them around a bit. I then put them up on the rails (not easy to do alone) and braced them with some 2x4 wood. Man that feeling when you roll it down the rials the first time is like a first kiss or something hahahahahah. Good stuff. But every layer has to have some feeling of accomplishment so I think the long build game will pay off with a very high sense of personal pride and satisfaction. I can see that in all of your builds for sure.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221207_205207540.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670474145)
I braced them up to see how they looked then realized they were facing the wrong way so I moved them and put them up on the rails too
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221208_033451786.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670474146)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221208_033503732.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670474146)
And finally, I cut two 55" boards and braced the tops but did not get a pic of that. That made it possible to do the "roll test".
My dad was playing around with some clay so I decided to build a Lumberman to go along with my build tonight. :) Its not as easy as you think. I'll post his and mine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221207_030736113.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670474617)
Dads is on top mine is below. Fun times.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221207_030723266.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670474146)
As always, Thank you all so much for your insights and support. Dont be afraid to hurt my feeling if you see me doing something that will get me hurt or cost me more to fix later I'll not take it personally. I'm really enjoying the build and the company too.
Thanks for taking us along for the ride. I always appreciate a good build thread. It is fun to see how ideas can morph from one build to another.
Well after looking over the Linn build I realized that I had the rails pointed correctly the first time so now I will switch them around. I also saw the credit card charge hit my card for the saw head yesterday so hoping to get the head in next week. I'll get some pics when I get it and then I can really start to lay things out. Who knows maybe I'll be cutting wood by New Years day!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/190A_Carrage.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670595217)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20221208_033503732~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670595217)
I also ran into another snag. The 8" space between the two first uprights is only 8" on the one side the other side is 7" so when it was originally welded they moved it in an inch. I'll have to cut this out and move it and weld it back in for the raise and lower function to work correctly. I should have caught that earlier but only got it when I tried to cut metal to brace the two at the right width and the metal was off. :) Lazy pays bad in the end maybe I should have just cut and redone all of the welds. Im still thinking a good day will get me at least a full roller carriage so this weekend maybe I'll have some good pics.
Question: Do you all think I can keep the front post for stability? I cant think of any way it would hit unless the front blade guards would already have hit going down the rail. Maybe with a really crooked log but then I'd have the same issue when cutting it. Im not worried about the extra weight.
I have no idea where the sawhead goes in that picture. If you look at the linn setup they have the head on the outside of the carriage. but if you look at the hud-son setup they have a very similar carriage to you but the head sits inside of it.
I chose to put the head on the outside to make blade changes easier. in hindsight it may have been better to deal with awkward blade changes in lieu of front heavy carriage that causes binding on the lifting screws.
Either way. I am still very happy with the machine I built. As usual there are little things I would do differently, but still love it and it works better than I ever imagined it could.
Quote from: SelcosSaw on December 09, 2022, 09:17:13 AMI also ran into another snag. The 8" space between the two first uprights is only 8" on the one side the other side is 7" so when it was originally welded they moved it in an inch. I'll have to cut this out and move it and weld it back in for the raise and lower function to work correctly.
What do you mean to work correctly? If you look as some discussion in a couple of other threads, there is mention of having the blade at an angle (not perpendicular to the rails) so that the blade "pulls" the head down the track - self feeding! My mill is set up going down hill slightly. On smaller stuff (<18"), gravity will pull my head through the log.
Alternatively, you could just make a 1" standoff for that side on your UHMW guides to make up the difference. Much easier than cut and re-weld and no worries about messing up alignment or warping, etc. The key question is, are all the post perfectly parallel (within an 1/8") so the head won't bind?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/CarrigeMergeDesign.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670636615)
@Crusarius (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=35059) The saw head would sit on the second post 8" from the back of the carriage. In the pic of the Linn they dont have a piece of metal in the front I was just going to leave that there for stability and to try to stop the weird lateral movements when pushing it down the rails. This is a moc up pic sorry for poor quality.
@ljohnsaw (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=20640) the full panel was welded wrong and the center beam was 8" from the other on one side and 7" on the other. The masts for my head to go up and down would be 1" off and not parallel to each other. I was going to cut the 7" one out and move it and reweld to be 8" like the other side. I just missed that when I picked out the raw metal panel to use. I might be able to start over and find another panel where they are at least the same distance apart. I do like the easy idea of adding 1" to my guides and I wonder how much grief I would get from builders and critics not that I care but 1" off is not True, Level, and Square. The tops of the posts sticking up are already going to be hard enough to get exact so that the head will go up and down the shaft correctly. In the Linn pic above you can see that the back post and front mast were 8" apart but that the third post in mine is not on their design. I can cut it off if it becomes an issue. I'll have to do more research on the blade not being perpendicular to the rails as I thought this was a MUST HAVE for a good cut and also so that it did not dive into the wood or go up either. I'll check more into that. You all know so many different things. The more I learn the less I know here. :)
Just to be clear, the blade MUST be parallel to your log bunks (I hope that is a Duh moment and not a Dooh! one ;)) but it is ok to have one side lead the other. Nothing bad will happen from that. If the idle side enters first, it *should* pull the blade into the wood (taking your mill along for the ride - a good thing). If the drive side enters first, I think it might act as a minor brake in your efforts to push it through the wood.
Also, feel free to NOT use the @membername function quite so often. ;) When you do that, it sends a notification to the member that they were mentioned in a thread. That is redundant to members that are already part of the thread. Not trying to be snarky but thought you might not know what the function does. Just using the member name to address your responses or questions keeps the thread easy enough to read/understand.
So that makes more sense now that the blade can enter at different times, and it does not affect the cut. As for the blade being parallel to the log bunks that is what I thought you meant earlier so at least thats clear now thank you.
Today I plan to work on the following since my brother and his family are going to be here to help.
Clean up all the leftover weld material that was from the pieces of pipe welded down the rails.
Design the sliders in rough form.
Decide which orientation the saw head will be on the mill so I will know if I need to cut the 7 inch upright and move it to avoid the "brake effect" if its on the wrong side of the saw. From what I see in the Linn pics it will need to
be moved to avoid the brake.
Cut all the supporting metal to use on the carriage. Also cut the gussets and brace material.
Start looking at log bunk design and also the log stops. Maybe put a small log on the mill just to view it.
Tac weld the carriage in the correct orientation.
Figure out how to add additional height to add cross bracing as Crusarius mentioned.
Tac weld the second Galvanized rail down in more spots than just the ends.
Start sanding the metal frame to remove rust and crud.
Final goal is to have the carriage in a roller ready state square, true, and plumb. Those three things are NOT my specialty, so I really hope to get them right.
I'll get some pics and add to a new post after we quit for the day. Its exciting to really be moving on the build. :)
1.
Don't make the sliders to tight. to loose is better than to tight!
Wow I finally have some more to post. Had Christmas, New Years, and some Family illness to contend with also field lines but that is another story not interesting at all. :)
I got the saw head in from Linn at Christmas time! Best present ever. Its heavy. I have it in my shop sitting up on the carriage for looks really. I also got the sliders almost done, they are 1/4" steel with 1" Poly (Plastic stuff) with some tensioners and stuff. Way too much overkill I think but too late to redesign them.
This is the tension side and below is the fixed side. The two large pieces tension with the all thread. The size is 2 foot by 10 inch for the big pieces and 2 inch by 2 foot for the smaller pieces.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/TensionDeviceOnSlider.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1673151229)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/FixeSideOfSlider.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1673151229)
Here are both of them up on the mast, one is missing the front piece but its ready I just didnt get a pic.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/HalfSliderandFullSliderOnMast.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1673151230)
Each slider takes 32 1/2 inch bolts plus a bunch of 1/4 bolts and nuts. I think its way too complex and am trying to figure out how to keep the complexity from causing issues down the road. I may redo the slider.
Hey who cares maybe it will work for a few logs! I will test it out once I get the head bolted on to it. I was going to weld the head onto the front of the big plates but the front bar might be in the way so I have it setup for side welding to the smaller plates. I may cut the front bars out though and drill some holes and bolt the head to the sliders rather than weld them. Anyone else just weld their head to their sliders? Is that the preferred way? I think bolts would be nice since I can take it apart later to replace the sliders.
I'll try to get some pics of the head too sorry let me find them real quick..
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/LinnHeadSide.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1673152795)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/LinnHeadWithGuardOnPallet.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1673152795)
I vote for bolting the sliders on. Yes, they look a bit complicated. Do you have adjustment for the glide blocks on all four side? Should be able to do it with just two sides adjustable. Also, you don't need glide blocks on all four sides. Just the front and back and the outsides (or insides). Hope that makes sense.
I agree, you do not need all four sides. but what might make more sense is to have one side with three sides wrapped and the other side with a single front slide that only contacts the post when you are cutting a log. Having both sides to tight and your head will bind unless it moves perfectly up and down.
The only time those will be under load is during cutting. when the head is moving they should be floating. That is why Linn design uses metal on metal.
Definitely bolt the head on. if it moves at all during weld you will be hating life.
Looking forward to more progress on this.
Quote from: SelcosSaw on January 07, 2023, 11:42:00 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/LinnHeadWithGuardOnPallet.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1673152795)
what is this gauge?
That is the hydraulic pressure gauge on your blade tension system. You can do some math and calculate what the blade tension in PSI as a ratio to the hydraulic pressure. Then, when sawing, you can see if that gauge fluctuates - which it will. As the blade heats up, it will expand, reducing the pressure. As it cools, it will shrink and increase the pressure. You need to maintain the same tension to have consistent cutting results. How closely you need to watch and maintain, I don't know. I set mine by gut feel ;)
Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 08, 2023, 12:18:36 AMDo you have adjustment for the glide blocks on all four side?
The front and back are adjustable via the All Thread for the larger plates. Only one side of the 2" smaller side plates is adjustable. I see what you all mean that I should expect only the front really to have any force applied while sawing. I may be stuck with four sides of plastic due to having designed it that way but it wont hurt. I'll just do what you all are (keep) saying and make sure there is enough play for this thing to move easy as well as put some grease on it.
Quote from: Crusarius on January 08, 2023, 10:15:02 AMThe only time those will be under load is during cutting. when the head is moving they should be floating. That is why Linn design uses metal on metal.
Thank you for this. Yes I'll have to make sure they are loose enough.
Here is what my brother and I were just talking over.
We are going to cut down the sliders from 24" to 19" so take 2.5" off of top and bottom of all four sides of each slider. This will add height since right now my estimate is that we will only have 32" high for the blade. If I remove the five inches I'll get it up to 38-40" of blade height above my log bunks.
So I'll try to use a chop saw on them or plasma cutter and clean it up. I hate to wreck the nice laser cuts but its a home build sawmill and I already have a lot of guilt cutting corners by having others cut stuff for me. :)
We also decided that the head will bolt on (as you all have thought was a good idea) and that it will be 62" and go from one side of the sliders to the other side of the other slider. If we do this, we will lose 2" of space due to the beam width and have to cut out the two front posts on the front of the carriage in order to fit the head and its guards in place.
I really wanted that front post for some reason, but it looks like it needs to go.
I may try to move it out or at an angle and then back but there is not a point to this because no matter what I do, if I run metal back to meet the other posts, I will lose height due to the 21" tall band wheels on the head which will bump into the metal.
Quote from: DDW_OR on January 08, 2023, 12:08:11 PMwhat is this gauge?
Its a hydralic tension device that sets the tension on the blade. Looks pretty cool. I see LJohnsaw correctly identified it.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 08, 2023, 12:16:55 PMI set mine by gut feel
Hahahah its so funny to have a gauge that you have to set by GUT feel! I was hoping it was easy just set it and forget about it. I'll experiment and thank you for letting me know about the blade heat and other factors that will change the tension. I'll have to play with it.
No, I wish I had a gauge. I don't so, gut feel. I have a hydraulic pump with a gauge and a little hockey puck ram. But the pump check valve does not hold pressure. So, I pump it up to where I think it should be, hand tighten my stop bolt, and remove the pump/puck setup. I don't have any way to measure the tension on the blade, just have a gut feeling it's right if it's cutting good!
If it is cutting good it is right.
don't grease the plastic. grease and sawdust = sticky sloppy mess. The plastic is self lubricating which is the entire point of it.
ok, maybe not self lubricating but it is slippery enough lube is very much not needed.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 08, 2023, 04:17:33 PMI don't have any way to measure the tension on the blade, just have a gut feeling it's right if it's cutting good!
Ok sorry I misunderstood LJohnsaw. I got the head up on the masts and did a raise and lower test with my chain lift. I also (Nephew welded) got my sliders welded to the head mount too. Im pretty impressed it slides easy and does not really bind if you have the tension right. I put the blade on for testing (backwards at first hahahah) and ran the sheaves around. It came off over and over at 600 psi so I called Linn and Chris told me it needs to be set to 2700 and that should fix it, if not he will help me adjust it over the phone or explain how. Nice folks there.
Here is a quick pic of progress. I'll post below because I cant find a way to attach once I start a reply.
Crusarius I hear you on the grease now, the poly stuff slides really well with zero lube and not even really smooth masts. I do worry about build up of sawdust so I may make some guards later to block entrances to cracks etc.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/Raise_and_Lower_Testing~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1673713438)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/SawHeadWithGuardsOnMast.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1673714618)
Here it is on the carriage with the guards on. I was worried they would not fit with the two front posts. It looks like I have half an inch to spare there so I hope to keep those as it adds stability and strength to the carriage. I've got to work out how the ACME rods work and look around at the forum for ideas. Its exciting to see this thing go together. I know I'll have to take it apart to do final welds and painting but still, maybe I can cut ONE log without paint :) what do you think?
My first cuts were in my garage without guards and no paint. Let me tell you that makes a big mess. Even just cutting a piece of firewood I had.
Quote from: SelcosSaw on January 14, 2023, 10:49:54 AMHere is a quick pic of progress. I'll post below because I cant find a way to attach once I start a reply.
SOMETIMES, when doing a reply, I get an abbreviated selection of formatting (bold/italic etc) across the top of the reply window with just a Post and Preview buttons below. Actually, like right now! So, there is a little trick to get the full gambit of buttons and options. Hit the Preview button. It will preview what you have typed so far and keep the reply window open (your screen will jump/scroll so you might have to scroll to find it), but all the options will now be available, including adding pictures!
Quote from: SelcosSaw on January 14, 2023, 11:46:19 AMI've got to work out how the ACME rods work and look around at the forum for ideas.
I did two interpretations of ACME rods on my mill. Do yourself a big favor and DON'T buy the soft ones from Surplus Center. They will wear out/strip if you are not extremely careful. My second batch came from McMaster. Get at least 3/4" and the long "nuts" (bronze rod that is inside threaded) that are about 1.5" long. More threads, more strength, longer wear. One inch rod would be even better if you are going to have a lot of weight.
I bought the acme rods straight from Linn Lumber. so far I have been happy with the quality. They are 1" and come machined ready to use.
I noticed I only have 27.5 hours on the mill since I added the hour meter. but I still have no issues with raise and lower as long as I keep the threads clean. Once I get sawdust build up it jams the threads and nothing moves. I usually start my milling day with a wire brush on both threaded rods.
I fab'ed up some three piece telescopic PVC pipe tubes that keep my threads covered below the head. No buildup of sawdust!
you know, I added a 7" extension on the bottom of my threaded rod to get the height I needed. I bet I could do the same thing. that would be great idea.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 15, 2023, 01:03:14 AMbut all the options will now be available, including adding pictures!
Awesome Hint there thanks for that little trick.
Quote from: Crusarius on January 15, 2023, 09:58:27 AMI noticed I only have 27.5 hours on the mill since I added the hour meter. but I still have no issues with raise and lower as long as I keep the threads clean. Once I get sawdust build up it jams the threads and nothing moves. I usually start my milling day with a wire brush on both threaded rods.
Oh no, I bought mine from Linn as well they seem really nice. But no load test yet. I also thought it was a good idea to put some grease on them again but I guess I will need to clean that off it if it attracts the sawdust buildup you were talking about. :) I dont know why I love to grease stuff so much.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/ACME_Thread_Base_Holder.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1673834912)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/ACME_Both_Sides_Tacked.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1673834912)
Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 15, 2023, 01:06:55 AMOne inch rod would be even better if you are going to have a lot of weight.
I had trouble finding good ones so I had Linn Lumber add a set (costly) to the shipment, I am glad I did they look great and well milled.
We had huge success with them today when my brother and some nephews came over and helped me get a big push forward. I now have to fix the top but am finding the whole idea of standing on a ladder to move the mill up and down a bit annoying. I guess in the end I will have a motor but if this thing is on a trailer it will be 6 foot tall or more to reach the handle hahahaha.
Pics below. I need to find a gear that switches to 90 degrees so I can put it on the side of the carriage instead.
Anyone have a good idea of a cheap 90 degree gear thingy?
Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 15, 2023, 10:29:02 AMI fab'ed up some three piece telescopic PVC pipe tubes that keep my threads covered below the head. No buildup of sawdust!
Awesome! I love this idea, I'd love to see a pic if you have one and are ok with me copying you? Otherwise I guess I need to know if you all put grease on them or not? I could just add a metal brush that is stationary and cleans them as it goes up and down?
Hmm too many ideas.
Quote from: Crusarius on January 15, 2023, 04:15:15 PMyou know, I added a 7" extension on the bottom of my threaded rod to get the height I needed.
Do you mean you welded another piece of ACME thread to the bottom? Or did you mean something else, sorry I was not clear on this.
I bored out the end of a piece of 1" solid bar stock (round) then inserted the machined threaded rod into that. I also machined the other end of the bar stock to go into the bearing at the bottom. After all was said and done the only difference from the threaded rod to the bearing is the threads stop.
It is to cold and dark to go get you a picture.
for lubing the threaded rod I used fluid film. Seems to work pretty good and the dust only sticks slightly.
Quote from: SelcosSaw on January 15, 2023, 09:14:36 PM
Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 15, 2023, 10:29:02 AMI fab'ed up some three piece telescopic PVC pipe tubes that keep my threads covered below the head. No buildup of sawdust!
Awesome! I love this idea, I'd love to see a pic if you have one and are ok with me copying you? Otherwise I guess I need to know if you all put grease on them or not? I could just add a metal brush that is stationary and cleans them as it goes up and down?
Hmm too many ideas.
I like the stationary brush idea! I'll get some pics of the bottom side when the rain stops. For the top, I put on a 1/2" section of grey pvc (CPVC) conduit that is just short enough to clear the top of the head when full up. That way no floating sawdust can find its way on to the rod above the cut.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_p.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042627)
The length below is pretty small when the head is all the way down - something like 18". So, I took lengths of 1/2", 1" and 1.5" pipe. Use CPVC (gray conduit), it is UV safe(r) than PVC. I made 1/4" thick rings of CPVC in pairs. The idea is to glue one to the top of the smaller pipe that will slip inside the larger pipe. Then glue a ring in the bigger pipe that lets the smaller slip through. That makes a 18" cover that grows to a little over 4 foot.
I do not want to tear my mill apart again. But if I do I will have to do the same thing. that will probably make my life a little easier.
I'm going to try to do the same thing. I can see where without sawdust guards those ACME rods could become full of dust and start to hang up. Plus it might also shield them from weather and stuff that could cause rust. I was planning on putting some anti rust light weight oil on them or even MIL-C-11796C. Haha I made you look it up. :) "Cosmoline".
Fluidfilm works well for anti rust and lube.
Well i've gotten enough done that I think I need to update this group. Small things really but they did take some time to figure out and fabricate. I'll say this I have a lot more respect for folks who do metal fabrication for a living. :)
Here are my raise and lower pieces. I have them temporarily welded into place and because I ordered the metal too short so I am waiting on new metal to arrive for the top pieces that hold the bearings in place. I need them to stick out 6 inches further so I can move the bar across the front of the mill out so the motor does not run into it when its raised up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/TopViewChainTensioner.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675214671)
This pic above shows the chain tensioner and also you can see the bar that gets in the way of the motor as it comes up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/RaiseAndLowerTensionerForChain.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675214670)
I did weld this in place and will cut off the part sticking down. It works pretty well for a home made jobby.
I also used the same design on my motor mount tension devices .
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/MotorMountBeltTension.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675214667)
Do you all think that 5/16" bolts are strong enough for the motor or should I go buy some 3/8" or larger? They seem to hold ok but I think this diesel will vibrate quite a bit.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/MotorMountSlots.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675214667)
I made the slots way too big, it was not easy to cut them with grinder 1/4" thick metal. But a 4" thin cutting blade worked then I cut across them and broke them in half and pushed them down and up until the metal broke. I probably should have used the plasma cutter but thought I could pull this off with less fire and mess. Ha Ha Ha
I mounted the motor and have the belt in place and the clutch. Soon very soon I'll do a motor run test without a blade on it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20230131_040818717.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675214670)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/SideViewBelt.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675214670)
I need to really get some paint on this soon too. Rust is forming. I did raise and lower it all the way up and down with success and now I am working to get some kind of motor setup from an old travel trailer. I will use the motor for pushing out the slide if its strong enough. I'll read up and see what others have done in this area.
Thanks for hanging in there with me.
I do have a question though, are the log stops supposed to be even with the innermost saw blade roller on that side? In this case its on the right side of the mill as you stand at the back facing forward. Its also the roller that is fixed in place and the other one is movable in and out.
Now as I consider it, if the log was to reach beyond that point then the carriage would NOT be able to move down the tracks so I guess I answered my own question.
I want to have some kind of automated raise / lower on the log stops too so I can set them from the back of the mill before I start cutting rather than have to walk down and set them each time.
Quote from: SelcosSaw on January 31, 2023, 11:05:04 PMNow as I consider it, if the log was to reach beyond that point then the carriage would NOT be able to move down the tracks so I guess I answered my own question.
If you look at my latest re-build, you'll see that I made my carriage wider than my track along with my guide wheels. That way I can load a big log and start slicing off the top to get it down to a manageable cant.
Quote from: SelcosSaw on January 31, 2023, 11:05:04 PMI want to have some kind of automated raise / lower on the log stops too so I can set them from the back of the mill before I start cutting rather than have to walk down and set them each time.
But how are you going to clamp the log without walking down the way? Are you planing on hydraulic clamps?
When I built mine I wanted maximum cut width so I put the guide wheel in line with the backstops. That was a huge mistake. Imperfect logs (normal logs) stick out just a little passed the backstop and cause me to have to stop and move the log to get past that point. I later fixed that and moved the head 2" over to clear. I sometimes still hit parts but I can muscle passed them for the most part.
My backstops are rotating type and are all connected together. I use a trailer jack welded to the frame to raise and lower all of them from the end of the mill. One day I may add a motor and a wireless controller but for now this works and I do not have to walk all the way down both sides to lock everything in place.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 31, 2023, 11:14:42 PMBut how are you going to clamp the log without walking down the way? Are you planning on hydraulic clamps?
Sorry it took me so long to get back on here. I plan to use a manual single location that will raise all of the log stops at the same time to the same height. Im not sure this is a good idea yet but its where I plan to go. Maybe later I'll get some hydraulics going.
I'll take a look at your build and see if I can figure out the best place for the stops I see good logic in leaving a little wiggle room for log bumps and stuff but that will directly impact my wide of cut too.
Quote from: Crusarius on February 01, 2023, 08:55:08 AMI later fixed that and moved the head 2" over to clear.
I like this idea, but I think it will drop my cut width from 32" to 30". Since I bought the sawhead its set at 32Max and I have not figured out how to make it wider even though I have 47" free between the carriage walls. I would like to fix that later on to make my cuts wider but right now I doubt I'll even get a 30" log up on this thing. Its getting closer though just takes a lot of effort to really focus and keep moving. Waiting for small parts or blades is the worst each item can take 10 days and delay by that much as well.
First I want to say thank you to everyone who has the patience to watch and comment on a build post. I know it takes time and I appreciate it so much. I am trying to take more pics but its hard to stop welding or grinding or cutting to take them so I will keep working on that.
I do have two questions though.
First, its already too late to do anything about this, but I need to know for future reference how to keep metal from doing the bend under heating thing.
In this pic you see my cross bar and my sliders that go up and down the mast. I had my nephew weld the final welds across the 1/4" plate and they bent on both sides of the cross member. You can sort of see it in the pic. I thought that metal was thick enough and had already been tack welded so it would not bend? Is it a policy that I need to only weld 1/2" strips at a time and do many small passes? I am afraid this will change the design due to the expectation that those would be flat and the nylon plastic would ride flush to the metal. I think it still may slide ok but I hate to cut them off and buy new metal and stuff. Very frustrating or sure.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20230211_173946204.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676248009)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/RedCircleBend2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676248405)
Second question: Is there enough room between my blade and the log bunks? There is just under 1\2" between the blade and the bunk. I think most people end up with 1" of space but my log bunks are just more of the same metal that I have been using dropped on top of the rails and it would be (lazy) awesome if I could get by without having to cut them down to make more space. It would leave my final cut kind of useless, but I am ok with that as long as the blade does not hit the bunks. What do you all think about this?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20230210_003213397.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676248008)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/71855/PXL_20230210_003223457.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676248008)
After moving the head over 2" I extended the sawframe to allow me to run a 158" or 176" blade. that got my 2" back and then some :)
I have 48" between the uprights. it is not for a 48" log. It is for a log that has sweep or a crotch I want to saw. I have maxed out the width on mine plenty of times. But I have done it cutting curved benches.
first of all, most newer welders think you have to full weld everything. This is very untrue. The good majority of the time you only need to stitch weld everything. Full weld just concentrates way to much heat if not done correctly.
The proper way to weld is short bursts in varying locations. After years of experience I have gotten to the point I can weld one side and have it bend, but then flip it over and weld the other side and it will straighten out flat. It is a very fine art that is not something very easily learned.
The best way to prevent heat warpage is to do small stitch welds on short bursts.
Second, you have plenty of clearance. the blade does not hit, right? I have 5/8" clearance to my bunks, but I also have 1/2" points welded to the bunks for clamping cants. So that means I only have 1/8" clearance over each of those.
Here are the points I am talking about.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/20171126_174147.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1511895942)
Before you cut your plate apart/trash it, give this a try. Run a bead (weld) on the opposite side where you welded to the tube. Do one and take a look. If not enough or only moves the one side, then run a second bead over the other one. When you weld (and heat up the metal), it will expand some but when it cools, it seems to contract more then it expanded. This may work to get your part close enough. When done, you can angle grind off the beads if they are in the way and the plate will not bend back or do anything.