The Forestry Forum

Expires 5-22-05

Uh, I believe the poll is flawed.  I only have 16 acres, mostly pasture.  Not really enough to hike on. :)

I said yes because I am not there to say no  ??? I only go there on weekends.

My property is not easily accessible to the general public, it is surrounded by rednecks who think the same way I do ;)
I let them hunt,fish,hike, or whatever and they guard the place like it was their own :) :)

I have hikers (tresspassers) but not by design.  If someone were to ask, I would let them take a walk, might even let them hunt a day or two.  Nobody asks, they just appear. 

Ron, I added an option because I only have 1.3 acres so I dont apply, but I wanted to see the voteing results so I added an option where people like me could vote could vote. ;D

My hikers are usually crackheads or hookers. If I know 'em I don't shoot at 'em.  ;)

My land is bounded on two sides by National Forest property. I'm not there much so I don't have much choice.  There are not many hikers in the area though.

Norm

The only hikers I have on my 300 acres are hunters. I let a few hunters I know hike bacK on the farm to hunt. I have never had anyone just want to hike. Maybe because of the bulls I keep.  ;)

I fall into Jeff's option, my largest piece of property is 1.25 acres.  :-\

Hikers aren't likely to damage much and I don't mind a few hunters .
As long as they don't have wheels , I don't mind.
I am thinking about posting against loose dogs though, 'cause they upset nesting birds .

I voted Yes but with permission.  No foot hikers, they are probably wanting to plant Taranaki Green (dope)  but we do allow the local pony club to use the track through our place in conjunction with most of the neighbours.  It's good to see the kids with an interest in something outdoors.

This brings up something that I'm pretty passionate about.  Recently, here in Michigan, there is a case that's been going through the courts regarding the rights of the public, vs. the rights of private landowners when it comes to walking the beaches of the Great Lakes.  On inland lakes, the official legal description is that your "land" extends from the boundaries of your property in a continually diminishing triangle to a point in the center of the lake.  People own the beach, and their part of the lake.  But on the Great Lakes, it's different.  It's generally been accepted that anyone can walk along any part of the beaches of the Great Lakes, up to the level of the high water mark.  But now, there are property owners who are demanding that should own the land up to the level of the water, and if anyone wants to walk along "their" shoreline, they must do so by walking in the water.  That just BURNS ME UP!  I'm all for private land, and the rights of private landowners.  Heck...we own about 60 acres, and I don't want just anyone galluvanting across it.  But the GREAT LAKES...and their beaches...that belongs to the people, and no fat cat rich sonuvagun should have the right to put up a fence along the shores of the Great Lakes at all.  I hope the law that states that the high water mark is public land is maintained.   >:(  I fundamentally believe that the shores of the Great Lakes are owned by the public as a whole, and no one should ever allowed to prevent anyone from walking any inch of our Great Lakes.   >:(

Here's the group of private landowners, trying to prevent the public from walking on "their" property.  They have the benevolent sounding title of Save Our Shoreline (http://www.saveourshoreline.org/), or S.O.S.  Their mission is to make their ownership go to the water's edge.   >:(

Here's a link to the story about the woman who caused all the ruckus by walking on somebody's shoreline.

http://www.gtherald.com/2005/feb/27beach.htm

Thanks for making this poll, Ron. 

This is very interesting if you stop and look at how we are divided it shows you how different everyone is. Just might explain why the people that are put in leadership positions are always making someone mad.
I voted yes with permission. I figured if they want me to respect them and let them be free. Than they can respect me and my rights. If it is someone that I know a simple phone call on your way there is all that is needed, if it is someone that I don't know we will have to meet. 

I don't let anyone on my property for any reason. My cabin was broken into to many times . The place has no electtricity,and I had an old refridarator there for storage and someone broke in and stole that within two within two weeks of my putting it there.Then kids stated to use it to have parties and burnt it down. So now if I catch anyone there I have them arrested.

I have a main woods road that crosses my property east to west.  It was actually on the USGS maps as late as 1900, then disappeared from the current maps.  There is also a branch off that road that runs north onto the next property and connects with another old historic woods road(david or "butt" smith) road that shows old house sites and foundations.  The smith road crosses some 300 acres and connects to main paved roads at both ends.  The smith road and my road both cross a major power lines.

That said, I don't have much of a problem with hikers, I just don't see too many.

ATV/motor bike/snowmobile traffic is nearly constant on weekends, with most of them leaving the powerlines onto my road but turing north to get on the smith road.  Many first timers don't realize there is no outlet to the west on my road so end up riding around in the old orchard to get out and turing around to head back. this triffic splits 50/50 between pleasant folks who will stop and say hi and hotdogs and kids who see my land as their personal playground.

Most of the hunters I have met over the years were very nice and thanked me for not throwing them off my land.  There are five or six I let park on my second driveway and hunt as well as 3 with ATV's I have given written permission to.

NH state law says it is illegal to ride unless the person has written permission from the land owner in their posession.

Two recent laws were passed that limit land owner liability from all kinds of tresspassers when the land is enrolled in the states current use tax reduction/land preservation plan as mine is.

I voted yes, with permission.  Really the question has never come up, except for hunting. 

I voted NO but I will let people hike in the bean fields if they have a hoe and follow the rows cutting weeds as they enjoy nature .   :D No takers yet.

I voted yes. There's nothing to hurt out there on my land, unless someone takes vengence and burns the woods done. I have the place posted as private and no dumping. There are people that hunt moose there and use my trail occassionally. But, I'm pretty much the only sole out there hiking along with the wildlife. Most people are too lazy around here.  I don't have a road out through the lot because people would just rutt it up with ATV's and 4x4's. I don't have a camp either, too close to home and you attract unwanted guests.

Good for you, Swamp Donkey.  We feel pretty much the same way about our land here in NH.  People hunt, fish, hike, picnic and do whatever else they feel like and it has always been that way.  Here in NH, there is an unwritten "Right of Trespass".  Hard to believe it ain't that way everywhere.
You get dumped on occasionally but we've had very little trouble over the years.
People who post their land are not held in high esteem around here.

I don't post and don't have any problems except for things like the snowmobiles coming out of my driveway cause they couldn't find another way out.

We tend to get a lot of visitors. If they are from the states, I or someone else will walk with them. The reason is that I don't want someone bit because they poked into a log they shouldn't have - if you get bit by a fer-de-lance on the property, you might has well just lay down and die... Too far to the nearest hospital.

None of the Ticos worry about it, or get bit for that matter, but if you don't know enough not to try to embrace nature, you could end up in a heap of trouble quickly.

Shoot, we even had Harold walk across the property the first time he was here - I noticed he didn't asked to do it this time... ;-)

Fred
Have you ever considered keeping anti venom around.....I would for the sake of any children etc. if it was possible. :)

Yes - we are going to do that - but if you are in the field away from people by yourself, you probably aren't going to get back.  The whole point is that I don't want people are are unfamilar with the dangers walking across the finca by themselves.

So far we have seen the following poisonous snakes on the finca.

Fer-de-lance
Bushmaster
Eyelash Viper (very cool - totally green - and of course looks like a vine - eek!)

I am sure there are others - Costa rica has I think about 20 different types or more.  However, they all stay away from you - except the bushmaster which is very agressive - and really big (a large one is about 3 meters long) Irritate a fer-de-lance and it will come at you too - I saw this one. If you throw a rock at one, make sure your aim is good..., or you have a lot of rocks ready.

The question is, how many different types of anti-venom would I need? The anti-venom for the fer-de-lance is a good idea since they are common - but I am not sure about the others. The  hikers normally will want to go into the wild areas - which is where you are going to find the snakes. Not many snakes in the plantation itself - snakes and machetes don't mix...

Jeff - are you going to ban me for talking about snakes?  ;)

  I voted no ....
For a reason though ...  We used to let people in and hike and camp ... but one time we let a couple in and the next thing they had a bunch in there and had a real good time ... when they left , they forgot there little camp fire  and 2 acres of  red pine trees are now charcoal  , did you know that charcoal dont sell to well ....  >:(
  So after that little eppisod  we locked the place up and its for private use only ...

only hikers on my land is dec and fsa :D oh yea, niagra mohawk came saturday to cut a cord and a half of birch on thieir right of way :D

audobahn (bird people) soceciety coming tomorry to see my birds for some odd reason. i didnt pay them. :D

only reg hikers are permission granted hunters

Quote from: Fraxinus on May 09, 2005, 02:20:47 PM
Good for you, Swamp Donkey.  We feel pretty much the same way about our land here in NH.  People hunt, fish, hike, picnic and do whatever else they feel like and it has always been that way.  Here in NH, there is an unwritten "Right of Trespass".  Hard to believe it ain't that way everywhere.
You get dumped on occasionally but we've had very little trouble over the years.
People who post their land are not held in high esteem around here.

This would be pretty awesome, provided people respect one another's property.

However, with owner liability from hunting accidents and too many jerks doing donuts in alfalfa back where I grew up, you just can't let people come in without permission.  Too bad people don't have more respect for other people's property, but as far as hiking goes, "most" of those people are responsible, I'd hope.

When we built our house I took about 30 acres and posted it.Just trying to keep people away from the house. Had one guy tell me he's been hunting there all his life and he was going to keep on doing it.I told him do what ever and walked off.This is family land and we're never posted before.I just don't need someone hunting 100 feet from the house. I don't  hardly let anyone drive anything on my land,walk or leave.I did let one fellow drive an ATV to hunt.He's real sick.He hunting buddy wanted to use his ATV too.I told him that you're not sick,you can walk.

I voted yes with permission. Never posted my land and was opposed to posting until I did my forest stewardship plan and applied for tree farm status. I was told to do so I must post my land so that there is less chance of an adjacent property owner logging my trees "In error". Soon after this a logger started cutting the woods next to mine. In one day I posted my woods and it worked. They took some up to the line but not over the line. REally raped the woods, high graded first, then took everything they could sell and when done sold the land and moved on. Those woods won't be right for many years now. Some ruts are over 3 feet deep, routeenly drove over trees up to 8" dbh even when an old loging road was within a few feet and went in the same direction they were going. Sometimes I think the young guys working for the man who bought the land just wanted to see how large a tree their skidder would walk over. Sure glad they missed my woods. I do let hunters on if asked and usually don't ask others to leave. However one time I had a guy in my tree stand, a high end store bought unit and he tried to tell me that he had the permission of the owner. I had my 44mag in it's holster with my hand on the grip but it still did the job. For a moment I was afraid he might get violent but didn't. I told him I owned it and then he tried to change the story, he was told to leave and not return. He had even used my driveway into the sugarhouse, parked blocking my entrance where it crossed a deep ditch and had rutted up the area turning around when he could have backed in the 140 feet or backed out since the drive was straight, graveled and thru an open field for visibility. He was just a slob and the type who gives the good hunters (the majority) a bad name.

When I first bought my property in 76 no one lived there for years and a lot of people used the place as their own.  I simply told everyone that it was no longer free range and permission was needed to hunt.  If they hiked, I wouldn't know, so I was not concerned about hiking.  There was a good bit of deer poaching going on and I stopped that.  When letting others hunt, they must let me know, so that I won't accidently shoot them as a deer or squirrel.

I have a motorcycle group with their Harley's come and camp. Some are relatives. They wanted to build a shelter house and I provided the wood.  They wanted his and hers outhouses, fine.  They put in a propane heated shower system. They mow the grass, built horse shoe pits and keep the place in super order. I have a group of cavers (70 to 90 people) spend a full weekend. Place is spotless when they leave.  They know the rules.  In 10 years, I have never had a problem.  They police themselves, because they know they have a good thing going.

I have seldom seen another hunter during gun season, everyone knows I am a rearend if they mess with my hunting. Those that ask I usually let hunt.  Usually only a few per year.  Mushroom hunters are banned.  I have enough trouble finding them without being second.

So I voted yes with permission.

 My land is not posted. We get current use tax breaks in N.H.. 50 Acres,4 not in current use and 46 in. The 4 acres we pay the house lot price and the 48 acres is a much lower rate.
In current use we can take 20 cord of fire wood, 20 thousand feet of lumber and 1000 yards of gravel per year for personal use,. The land could be cleared for pasture.feild,crops ect. Just can`t build on it without paying the penatily tax.
The penatily tax is I think 10% of market value when taken out of current use.
Over twenty years its been a big savings.
As far as hikers, Havn`t seen too many, Mostly hunters.Then most land in N.h. is open for recreational use .Private or not unless otherwise posted .
The most posted land in this area are from transplants from the south or west that come here and buy the acreage and then post it and still want the tax breaks.(And maybe some pouching)
I havn`t had much for problems, Most people respect the land and the landowners.

I voted no and here is the reason why....below is the view from my deck of part of our 30 acre lake that is below my house, and the main reason that I bought the land 10 years ago....

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11950/ViewFromDeck.JPG)

There has recently been 3 subdivisions built within 1/2 mile of my house, with most of the housing being sold to people from Atlanta that wanted to move out of the city and enjoy the country lifestyle...they immediately bought ATV's & Dirtbikes and proceeded to tear through my woods and try to destroy my wood trails, pasture and lakeshore....I've had 3 boats and trolling motors stolen...had guns and knives pulled on me when I very politely asked people to leave...put out 55 gallon drums for people to leave their trash in...and had people turn the drums over and scatter the trash that was in them...and  just this evening, when I was on the deck grilling burgers for dinner, I saw 2 grown men paddling across the lake IN ONE OF MY BOATS!!! when I rode down to the lake to see who they were THEY HAD MY TACKLE BOX AND WERE USING MY RODS  :o >:( :o now, the tackle box and rods weren't left in the boats...THEY WERE LOCKED UP IN THE FISHING SHED BESIDE THE LAKE  >:( :o >:(

When I asked them just what the #@!$# they thought they were doing, they said...
"We though this was a county lake and all this fishing equipment was put out here for our use..."

Sometimes I really hate the fact that my darlin' wife knows me so well....cause...as I turned to the truck, so mad I couldn't see nuthin' but red...she was callin' the sheriff and was settin' on my ruger 44 mag...man, I sure love that woman...she probably kept me outta prison today  :) ;) :)

That is a beautiful lake and setting. The gall (or lack of brains) in some people is quite amazing.

I once was doing a timber cruise for a landowner on a large property in the Knobs region of central KY. It was going to require a couple days work, so I asked the owner if I could sleep over in the cabin on the property and she said no problem. The cabin was left open and with no valuables inside due to some local thieves. Well, on the second day I am down in this deep hollow measruing trees and I hear ATVs in the distance. I couldn't quite tell where they were, but I suspected the worst. Sure enough, at the end of the day as I am approaching the cabin I see the tracks in the mud. I was lucky. They got my 10 year old sleeping bag, an old duffel, and a $15 latern but were nice enough to dump the most valuable items, my previous days timber cruise cards, on the floor.

GareyD

Are those belties (beltde Galloways)?  Nice looking cattle but very tempermental.

Yes with permission. Private property here is private, posted or not.. Unfortunately, too many people treat the outdoors as a huge playground with little regard for the rights and priveleges of others. A lot of previously accessible public  land is being closed off to motorized traffic because of vandalism and environmental damage so the  ATV and bike crowd are concentrating in smaller areas leading to more problems. Also the sierra clubbers are like the snobby land owners on the Great Lakes and want the whole outdoors reserved for their exclusive use on the pretext they have a monopoly on environmental responsibilty. Unfortunately, the area around the summer resort where we hiked and fished and built forts when we were kids is now fenced off for high end cottages. Sad.

My vote is yes....we actively encourage visiters and hikers so that they can benefit what we benefit. Our site is set on a unique limestone escarpment with ice-age glacier carved boulders strewn everywhere. People come here for the views, tranquillity and to study nature, and are free to roam anywhere within our woods if they keep to the rides (forest tracks) and designated footpaths...NO vehicles  To date we've had no problems with litter, vandalism and theft because visitors have the same interests as us and also help keep a vigilance on the woodland for us. Another reason, is we are very rural and do not have the urban thug element
We get quite an extensive management grant (along with the red tape) from the government to make our woodland accessible to the public and because our footpaths are 'permissive' we have the the right to close them at any time should they be abused. THe whole wood is closed one day a year, otherwise the 'Public Footpath boffins' will get their hands on pathways and claim them as theirs :(
One footpath of particular natural merit, boasts information boards and a visitor's book and it's contents is quite international. We several entries from America, countries in Europe and even as far as Australia. Who would have thought people would come for a holiday in 'Rainy Britain'? :D
Most private woodlands in England are private and owners do not allow public access. All government owned forests allow public recreation.

Tim

I voted yes because I used to hike it when I was a kid, long before I bought it. I think that is why I was so interested in the property. I used to "indian arrow hunt" and found dozens. People have hiked and hunted the same ground for hundreds of years (the University of Illinois did a research dig for Native American artifacts very close to me). I only allow hunting by permission. I will run a litterer off with a vengance. The old lady who owned the ground before me (for 60 years) let me and a few friends camp out there, as long as we didn't leave any Twinky wrappers or pop cans. We always walked the timber before we left and picked up everything any one else who was hiking through had thrown down, just because she was a good person and we didn't want to get told no next time. When she passed the estate remembered me and though I was someone who loved it as much as she did and I was the only person they considered selling it to.

I voted 'no' only cause i dont have my own land (I take it a small garden don't count)
But the charity I work for has a cottage in the middle of nowhere, with a few acres, half of it planted up with mixed species broad leafed trees for both shelter and wildlife.
Over the last couple of years, EVERY one of the trees has had the tops snapped, stakes pulled and shelters burned, the cottage trashed repeatedly, to the extent that we no longer replace with glass.

Now, this is a 3 hundred year old stone built farm house, rebuilt from 1975 from a gutted wreck, with only voluntary labour in the middle of nowhere.

We have the right to roam here now, so people do, most with care and civility, but a lot of places I go with the saw are getting fed up with the damage, gates being left open, people wandering into their homes ("sorry, I thought we were allowed to now"). The farmers are legally responsible for the wanderings of their live stock, and any damage they do.

I like people wandering about, but we're developing a real problem here with people becoming distanced from the land and what it means, with the majority swinging to the view that it's for their personal recreational use, and not for making a living from.
Probably by the time my sons grow up, that's the kind of countryside we will have here, good in one way but sad in another. It's not stupidity (re fishing rod's and boat) or gall, it's just not caring enough about someone else's place or their things. NOBODY is really that stupid

Unthinkingly selfishly unconcerned about the consequences of their actions, YES

But really that stupid, NO

a bit ranty but posted anyway


iain

I let a scout group camp on my place back in the woods for a weekend several years ago &
the scout leader make sure there wasn't even a gum wrapper  on the ground after they left.
I think it just depends on the group of people. I know those City Kids enjoyed there self's

We have 80 acres with about 30 in hay.  I put yes with permission because an inlaw brought a friend out last year to hunt without permission in a rain storm and rutted up a little over a acre getting stuck and then getting Four more trucks stuck in getting out.  Guess who had to bring in more dirt, disk , level, and replant. >:(  We have a logging road that goes along the south side of the land and all the neighbors have permission to use it, but even they drive around to the driveway to come and visit.  It just feels better I guess. I know to keep from riding across the back of their property we drive around to visit too. ;D
The river camp is a little different since it is on the river and in a wildlife management area.  We don't mind people stopping to look at the river or with permission, we have had some people camp and use our picnic table and boat dock( if it can be called that for now).  We don't give out a key to the camp for to many reasons to go into here.  We all keep an eye on each others camp when we can, they are all a little out of site of each other and come deer season with people coming into the WMA from all over the state and beyond your firewood can sure disappear. ::)  If you look at my pics you can see what I mean, but one morning I had a stack of wood across the road and during breakfast I look out and sure enough a truck is loading up my firewood with us there.  When I politely asked ;D they said they didn't think it was anyones. ???

I've done wrote a book and still have more to say....

Iain, the chanterer is back :D

Quote from: iain on May 17, 2005, 04:51:42 PMWe have the right to roam here now, so people do, most with care and civility, but a lot of places I go with the saw are getting fed up with the damage, gates being left open, people wandering into their homes ("sorry, I thought we were allowed to now").

I would like to reiterate on what people think is their right to roam.
The right to roam only includes unfenced, unhedged and unwalled areas such as moorlands, some lakesides, Crown forests, National Parks, common land and shorelines. All pastures, fields, woodlands and other privately owned property is strictly out of bounds to the public unless permission is granted by the landowner or there is public right of way.
So many folks think they can hike anywhere with this new ruling, but they so can not. They believe they can walk willy-nilly in any field, and yes you are right Iain, when you say that the farmer is responsible when walkers leave gates open and the livestock escapes.

Tim