Do any of you use a panel glue up fixture? What is a good one? How well does it work?
Are you looking for production, or ease of glue up?
I saw a really interesting setup that a guy used to glue table tops. The setup was bar clamps set up against the wall, so the glue up was vertical and did not take up a lot of floor space.
There are companies selling that setup.
We had the clamps from an old manual glue reel as backups to the RF gluer when I worked on a panel line. If you could score one of those and sell what you don't need. Those are a ferris wheel of industrial bar clamps. By the time it comes back around the panels are dry and ready for unloading the dry one and laying up a fresh one.
The scale is wrong but the machines are neat, the edge glue machine was the panel gluer there and in a cabinet shop. He had tooled up and we made panels and doors for other shops as well. Now you are spitting out a load of panels a minute.
New Woodworking Machines, Used Woodworking Machines, Woodworking Machines | Wilkesboro, NC (rosenquistllc.com) (http://www.rosenquistllc.com/woodworking-machines-new-machines-wilkesboro-nc.html)
I saw these a while ago and thought it would be great to have a few or 30 :)
Rockler Deluxe Panel Clamp, Single - Rockler (https://www.rockler.com/rockler-deluxe-panel-clamp-single)
Not for production. I'm trying to reduce the struggle of dealing with a bunch of loose clamps. I just had to glue up 3 shelves, and I had to do one at a time and do it on the floor with my clamps and calls. My new shop is not properly set up as I have to store materials that need to stay dry in conditioned space. So I'm making the best of it. I was reading about the Fulton Panel Max System today but not sure how good it is. I just looked at those Rockler panel clamps and unfortunately the min thickness is 3/4". It's not unusual for me to glue up 1/2" or even 3/8" panels.
I think I'd be ok doing one glue up at a time if it were easier to clamp and unclamp. I expect at some point in my house build that I'll need to do a bunch of panel glue ups.
How many clamps do you need to accommodate?
The Lee Valley panel clamps work for me, the key is to use dry, straight and strong cauls.
looks like the slant rack could be fabbed up, so the panels can be clamped. I do mine on my table saw with two clamps under, after in place, I stand the panel up and place clamps alternating side to side. I may make something, that can go against the wall, but fold out as needed. I use a glue roller to spread the glue, so it is less likely to run off. I use biscuits and a dead blow hammer. the Rockler things look like mostly a fancy expensive caul. I like lee valley but I will stay with my pony pipe clamps. how big of panels do you anticipate needing? how many? good luck!
That's my inclination too Doc, something out of the way that uses gravity to assist. Just trying to
See if there's a really slick system out there, before I try to reinvent the wheel.
I like this silicone glue roller
Silcone Glue Roller - - Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/WOODRIVER-Silcone-Glue-Roller/dp/B00H2B73E6/ref=sr_1_13_sspa?crid=1WACOITTNX2PQ&keywords=glue+roller&qid=1674913161&sprefix=glue+roller%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-13-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSzcxUU03Rk1QTElMJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzQyMzg1MU80WlM3UVdDWDFRVSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTYwNjMxMUZRNlpCOVRHMTA0UiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX210ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=)
I use a 4x8 sheet of particle board. Glue a 1x2 strip on the top and side at right angles.
I set my panel in dry and drill holes for simple cam clamps I make out of wood. Or you could use a block and a wedge. I've used this system for 50 yrs or so with good results. Dan
Quote from: doc henderson on January 28, 2023, 08:40:38 AM
I like this silicone glue roller
Silcone Glue Roller - - Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/WOODRIVER-Silcone-Glue-Roller/dp/B00H2B73E6/ref=sr_1_13_sspa?crid=1WACOITTNX2PQ&keywords=glue+roller&qid=1674913161&sprefix=glue+roller%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-13-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSzcxUU03Rk1QTElMJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzQyMzg1MU80WlM3UVdDWDFRVSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTYwNjMxMUZRNlpCOVRHMTA0UiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX210ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=)
Doc, if you get a chance try this one instead.
https://www.amazon.com/Big-Horn-19044-Roller-8-Ounce/dp/B0015YJHO0/ref=sr_1_3?crid=189PPL6X4W9B2&keywords=glue+bottle+roller&qid=1674931424&sprefix=glue+bottle+roll%2Caps%2C216&sr=8-3
It will spread and roll at the same time. Just a bit faster and less messy.
how do you guys clean those rollers? does the glue just peel off after it drives?
yes. look as good a year later as the first day. they have spiral flutes like the fancy stickers. it spreads a bead over the edge surface, like stripes and you can handle the panel boards without it running over the edge and creating more clean up. you can really get the right amount, so less waste and squeeze out without dry spots. I did order one with the bottle to try. i also use the glue bots for my gallons of titebond.
This is not about a glue up fixture but I find the Bessey offset blocks very handy for things like face frames. They don't cost much and make setting up clamps easy.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_3601.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1675026687)
They lock the clamps at right angles and can also be used for singles
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_3602.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1675026693)
They set just below the pads and dried glue peels right off
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_3603.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1675026697)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_3604.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1675026705)
You can see the mounting holes they have that accept flat head screws for permanent fixtures
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_3605.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1675026708)
I bought 2 sets of 4 and find them useful for some glue ups and they let me work quickly without worrying about clamp position. Used to be about $15 a set but I think inflation may have increased the price. Not a glue up fixture but I use mine all the time. How did this post get so wide?
Quote from: Crusarius on January 28, 2023, 02:06:56 PM
how do you guys clean those rollers? does the glue just peel off after it drives?
I wash mine in warm water immediately after use. However, the glue will peel off after it dries too.
The "clamps" on one of those glue machines was firehose inflated with air pushing on a row of sliding blocks, there was a stack of dummy boards to fill the 4x8 opening alongside whatever panel size was going in. A hose can conform and give very uniform pressure.
And then I went to a shop running hydraulic cold presses. I've got about enough bottle jacks to clamp a beam between a slab and something serious overhead.
Someone mentioned a frame and wedges. The assembly tables we worked on to feed the 60 hydraulic cold presses above, were just angled steel tables with a square steel tube perimeter frame. We had various size pairs of opposing wedges to clamp parts together, we would pin and go to the press for face lamination but leaving something wedged like that on the table would work fine for edge gluing. A boatbuilder that was slumming with us in one shop said "You can clamp anything with wedges" He was right.
Is it just my computer, or did the format of this post get really really wide off the screen somehow? How does that happen? Can it be fixed?
Other post I go to aren't wide like this?
I've looked at some other clamps- woodpeckers clampzilla, and Frontline wood clamp system (from Austrailia). The Frontline is very expensive, too expensive for me. About $1000 for 2 clamps. Woodpeckers clampzilla is a more viable option depending on the width you get. The widest is about $650 for 4 clamps. It looks better built than the Rockler.
Now I just discovered the Plano glue press (from Logosol) on Amazon. Watching some youtube vids. Looks a lot like the Frontline from Australia, but lower cost. It's in between the Woodpecker and the Frontline at $800 fro 3 clamps. This system is wall mounted and looks more user friendly with how the clamps come apart at the top to insert the boards. More food for thought.
Plano Glue Press - YouTube (https://youtu.be/69K6KRd6mbI)
I looked at the Lee Valley hardware but it doesn't seem to clamp the tops and bottoms of boards but only the sides. I found a video that says they do put pressure on top and bottom when the studs can't when squeezed, but I wonder how much pressure it can put? I'm thinking the Plano or woodpecker would apply more pressure?
yes but they are made from "al you minimum" :D :D :D
My thoughts are that a lot of this stuff is unnecessary.
It's marketing.
I prefer parallel clamps to bar clamps, but both work.
A quality glue up starts with quality prep.
If your boards are flat and straight, you really don't need much help to glue them up.
A commercial cabinet shop will have different needs than most of us.
I did 8 panel glue ups once for two cases. I clamped and stood them up side by side (another benefit of parallel clamps).
@doc henderson (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041)
1. Are you now British?
2. Do you know this or are you assuming? Is this a negative? Sounds like they've been making them for a long time. If they were not strong enough.... do you know that they are not strong enough? Just asking the questions.
@Dan_Shade (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=2217)
I've been doing it with parallel clamps and calls and c-clamps. I'm trying to find a simpler way with less clamps and fiddling around needed.
I am not British but dated someone in residency who is! :) (note the laughing emoji)
I think they look great and watched video. they are cauls and clamps all in one. to get as pictured it would be 1600 bucks. I aluminum (how ever you say it) is a great material, light, slow to corrode, no rust. If you have many to do, might save time and add quality. I use biscuits, and tune my jointer to make good edges. They are marketed by a company but it said somewhere that the manufacturer is no longer in business. The lady in the video said they were alum.
It is a lot of money unless you plan to use them often, in my opinion.
Quote from: Brad_bb on February 03, 2023, 12:43:12 PMIs it just my computer, or
did the format of this post get really really wide off the screen somehow? How does that happen? Can it be fixed?
It looks like it started on the second post. It's probably some HTML(computer stuph) that got posted along with the message. We
don't see it, but it tells the browser how to format the screen.
Typically the screen width does get messed up by a link. Best way to prevent it is instead of just pasting the link use the little "insert hyperlink" icon. then you can give it a name and have the long format messing up link not visible.
Now we learned something. No wonder Jeff always wants us to use the link button.
@doc henderson (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041) Yes it is a lot for clamps.
QuoteIs it just my computer, or did the format of this post get really really wide off the screen somehow? How does that happen? Can it be fixed?
Could be reply #6 or #11, both could use the "insert hyperlink" feature on this forum.
My 2 cents ..
When I first began woodworking, 16 years ago, I bought the plano clamp rack, then graduated to the formal, commercial 20' long 5-6 layer clamping rack with heavy duty 40+ inch clamps, a mechanical flattener, then a pneumatic flattener because I didn't know any better. All these fancy clamping things have been long gone out of my shop; SOLD and replaced with a bunch bessie clamps. I've since built several large, strong, flat surfaces and find that simply using the bessie clamps is way faster and more versatile. I do still build panels, but building 3 dimensional, curved, not flat panels are worth more and that is kind of the direction I went. I tend to buy tools, and if they don't work, I get rid of them. If I was a commercial cabinet shop, I would use the JC pneumatic press line, keep it clean and well lubricated. I didn't go that direction.
If you're not getting flat glue ups with Bessy clamps you should take a look at how the panels are being prepared. Since switching from pipe clamps I haven't had problems.
I have never used a glue spreader better than my index finger. Except into dovetail joints where I need to use a small brush.
Brad
Did you look at the other Fulton 4 way pressure clamps, you make your own cauls out of wood. I order 2 sets ( 4 clamps ) from amazon. Instead of wood i used 1.5 x 1 superstrut ( used to hang electrical conduit & mechanical pipe ), it allows me to adjust the width. Cut it to the length you wish. You can do ½ material with them & for smaller i use a strip of ¼ plywood for a shim.
I was using 2x4 cauls & pipe clamps on my bench, but it tied up my bench for the day while the glue set. Once these are clamped, you can can move the panel off to the side out of the way.
All in about $300 for 4 clamps including all the hardware ( superstrut, spring nuts & ¼ stove bolts )
used a plano for 20 plus years for large table glue up cant be beat !!!!
Quote from: Brad_bb on February 03, 2023, 12:54:31 PM
Now I just discovered the Plano glue press (from Logosol) on Amazon. Watching some youtube vids. Looks a lot like the Frontline from Australia, but lower cost. It's in between the Woodpecker and the Frontline at $800 fro 3 clamps. This system is wall mounted and looks more user friendly with how the clamps come apart at the top to insert the boards. More food for thought.
Plano Glue Press - YouTube (https://youtu.be/69K6KRd6mbI)
I looked at the Lee Valley hardware but it doesn't seem to clamp the tops and bottoms of boards but only the sides. I found a video that says they do put pressure on top and bottom when the studs can't when squeezed, but I wonder how much pressure it can put? I'm thinking the Plano or woodpecker would apply more pressure?
I use the plano semi commercially, since 10 years, have 2m long setup with 5 clamps, it's not cheap but has paid for itself in no time. before i had to busiquit joint the panels and then clamp, was a waste of time. the plano is fast and easy. i have done at least 5000 panels with the press. from 1/2" to 3" every length.