I'm looking at starting my timber frame project soon and want to get a realistic idea how long it would take one person to mill and chisel all of the timber for a basic 24x36 barn if I only worked on it during weekends and maybe a couple hours a night during the week? I know there are a lot of variable that go into this but a rough idea would go a long way.
If the rest of life can take a back seat you can probably be working on the inside this time next year. That is a big if.
That long huh?
sounds like prob. longer. :)
Just to cut a 24x36 frame took me about 180 hours or so. That was with a Makita chain mortiser, it would take a little less time with my Mafell. I sanded it also which was included in that time but they were S4S timbers.
On our first couple of projects around here I figured I averaged about a full day per post or beam, including setup and head scratching. Every plan is different, count the members. Add rafters and braces to that number, maybe around an hour each, depending on how things go. Depending on the level of finish you’re looking for it could add half as much time again. Then do as my uncle taught me when he was teaching me the art of the self employed Jack-of-all trades, “figure out how long it’s all going to take, then double it. Multiply that by two and tell that to the client!” He wasn’t often far off.
QuoteThen do as my uncle taught me when he was teaching me the art of the self employed Jack-of-all trades, "figure out how long it's all going to take, then double it. Multiply that by two and tell that to the client!" He wasn't often far off.
I've heard that exact quote from several different sources when involved with estimating projects. Especially for "first time" un-broken ground projects where it is a first time, no plan to follow type project. And was amazing how often it was spot-on. Be the units of 1st estimate in hours, days, weeks, months. "Double it, and multiple by two".½ hour jobs end up being 2 hours, etc., etc.
It's biblical, literally. Old Testament.
Don't ask me for a reference.
I did a time study once. I timed with a stopwatch how long it took me to layout and cut a tenon on top of the post. Then I did a mortise. And then other joints on that timber. Converted all that to decimal hours and wrote it down on my spreadsheet of joint/processes to do.
It took me 4 hours to do one post.
Using my spreadsheet to keep track of processes and joints, you can time how long you spend during each cutting session. Then see how many processes you've done during that session. And then project out how many/much time it will take to complete the frame.
Obviously, the more you do the faster you get.
I always say: "be accurate when you cut your lines." If your accurate and you cut it right the first time you don't have to cut it a second time. With accuracy speed comes automatic.
Jim Rogers
I count on 3 days per timber BUT that is from mill to standing frame.
So essentially backing up to the trailer in the yard, driving to the mill, getting loaded, yacking with the sawer a while, unloading at home, stickering properly (levelling your pile) and covering properly against rain and sun. Usually four trips depending on how big the frame is.
Then bringing inside (hopefully the pile outside is semi sorted already) and agonizing over where each timber is going to go in the finished frame. Lots of flipping, rolling, deliberating, thinking, changing your mind and head scratching.
Then lopping the ends off, power planing, maybe changing your mind, then layout, cutting, peg drilling, waxing end grain, sanding and three coats of oil.
Then remove from the building to pile outside neat and tidy and covered till taking to the site. Load onto the trailer, drive to the site, unload, assemble frame horizontally on the pad, fix booboos, strap up, reinforce for lifting.
Stand up and celebrate with beers while gawking at your work....it never stops being really cool.
Then you are tweaking the footprint, squaring the frame, measuring cross ways 10 times, pegging together, removing straps sanding away and oiling scuffs and dings, attaching anchors then packing up everything and cleaning up the shop to get ready for the next one.
The actual cutting is a small portion of it. I can do 2.5 simple tie beams in a day from rough timber to joints cut with waxed end grain. But all the rest really adds up.
Thank you Jim and timberframe for your input, breaking it down two different ways is really helpful depending where you're at in the process. Like timber frame suggests, there's a lot of work that's not often included when I try to estimate based on a purely "how long does it take me to do each step" approach. I guess that's where you double it, and multiply that by two!
Well, I'm into year 6 or 7 now ::) The morning of 11/1/2022:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20221101_b.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1667353224)
And then the afternoon that day. Done until May-Jun '23!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20221101_c.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1667353226)
However long I think it will take, multiply what I said by 3 to 3.5. ;D ;D It's really true.
As far as milling your timbers, you haven't said what mill you have. Hydraulics can help, but milling long stuff requires a machine to move logs and timbers and extensions for the mill. Depending on how long, not sure if you can still roll it with hydraulics or if you have to use the machine?
In general, on my LT15 manual mill, I can mill 2-4 timbers a day. A day is 6 hours because I'm worn out by then on my manual mill. I can push it to 7 or 8, but I'm feeling it pretty good the next day and less productive. Milling also includes moving waste slabs, sawdust, bark etc. Cleaning up is part of milling. How many you can do also depends on how big the logs are. I mill all hardwood. Ideally, I'd have logs just big enough to mill into timbers (boxed heart, pith centered) so all sapwood is cut off, but not enough for boards. If logs are bigger, which they usually are, you will also spend time cutting jacket boards, so they don't go to waste- good boards from outside of the timber. This is also why it's 2-4 timbers a day. You need to have lumber pallets and stickers ready too for the jacket boards. And if you want the jacket boards to come out flat, you need weight to put on the stack. I've used other stacks of boards, timbers etc. What I'm planning to make is a form to pour a 3" Thick concrete 4x8. Two of them actually with wire mesh in them. Each will be about 1500 lb. That will be good weight for a stack. I'm making two at 1500lb each so I can easily remove them one at a time with my forklift versus trying to lift 3000 LB if it's 8 to 10 ft high. A lot safer to lift 2 at smaller weight.