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New to this forum, hope this is the best place to post

I live in central New Hampshire.  I have a couple of big white pines that are too close to the house.  Both around 100 ft, one is 32" dbh, the other 38".  I'm gonna have them taken down by a crane, and I want to try to sell the logs.  I'll have them stacked off the side of the driveway so a truck can come in and just take 'em.

I figure they should have some good wood, they're pretty straight, especially the lower logs, so they ought to be of interest to someone.  I've cut lots of firewood, but I haven't sold logs before, and I don't know how to learn what would be the going price these days. 

Any advice?

Thanks

Welcome to the Forestry Forum. 

Being yard trees, likely of very little value to the logs. Hope that isn't too disappointing. 

Most times with yard trees you can consider yourself lucky to find someone that will haul them away for free.  

I pay some of the tree service guys for the logs they deliver to me. I pay about half of what I would if the logs had came from the woods. This is due to the amount of blades that the logs with metal ruin. This is for the logs delivered to my mill. If I had to go pick the logs up then they would have to pay me to haul them off. I know this isn't the answers you were hoping to hear but it is what the market is.

It may not matter to a buyer, but we bought the property when it was fully wooded and cleared the lot ourselves, enough for the house and the garden and lawns etc.  We are at the end of a long dirt road and there has never been any house near our property.  The trees are in the area we left wooded.  So there is no chance that there is barb wire or nails from no-hunting signs or any other metal I can think of.  These are not cabbage pines, they are tall and proportionally slender (that is, they are fat at the butt, but taper slowly, so the logs are straight until they near their tops).  They grew in competition with other trees, and are the winners in that contest.

Anyway, I understand the skepticism.

But, just for my help, if they were from the deep woods so a buyer would not hesitate, does anyone know what they might go for in my area?

Actually, I did have one offer of $300 a thousand, from a guy owning his own mill, but after a while he called and backed out because his saw can't handle logs as fat as mine.  He happens to live in my town so he knows what I said about the trees being metal-free.

But you are all correct about the hesitancy.  Most of those I have called refused for the reason you all gave.

Another option for you is to have a mobile sawyer bring his sawmill to your place and saw the logs into lumber.  Then you could sell the lumber or keep it for your own projects.

If you can get 300 picked up your not doing bad. Biggest thing is to make sure they are cut the appropriate length, 16'6 butt log is you can, as it tapers cut it for the best you can, biggest thing I see with people is the wrong lengths. 

I would say get them sawn up and sell the lumber. But be sure to read up on stacking and stickering first!

Here, much like in New England, a lot of big, standing, timber ground, was cleared farm ground 100 ish years ago.  Without looking it up something along the lines of 20% of the population was involved in agriculture back then and now it's under 3%, so open ground that was let go has grown into mature timber now.  I can find old barbed wire remnants a long way into the woods on our own place, so it has to be in some of the timber.  Always think of that when someone tells me "guarantee these don't have metal in them". 

Yes I know NU used to be almost all open farmland.  I see wire myself but only in trees on stone walls.  I have a stone wall as my bound, and the trees are both well inside of it.

But yeah, I hear it a lot - why take any risk at all, with a big blade to sharpen or replace.  I understand.

It does not help that we are going into blue stain season. Pine sells better October to March.

The tree/logs are worth whatever someone will pay, every area and species is different. If the trees are bucked int logs then what Barg says makes a difference, incorrect lengths :embarassed:.    If you have less than a truck load then not wort going for, so limited who might purchase which lowers the value.  In some areas if you just have a few nice trees, you maybe lucky to get firewood value.

 Tree service guys can be guilty of just pacing off the lengths, they tend to not be real concerned about it. Not their primary focus, for obvious reasons. But if you try to sell me a 16' log that actually is 15'11", it just became a 14' or even 12'. 

 I am working on a formula, it goes something along the lines of the more certain someone is that their trees are metal free, the more I expect to find some metal in them. This is bore out by experience. 

 All of this said, if you hauled the logs to me, cut to my specifications, I would probably give you around $300/1000 board feet. I say cut to my specifications because I've had homeowners bring me "logs" to saw for them that I couldn't even touch. Huge knots with the limbs cut about 4" from the trunk, crotches, forks you name it. Not what I'm looking for. 

 Part of the value in what I pay the loggers I'm buying from, is we have relationship and I know what I'm getting. That's developed over time.

A friend who owns a tree service company  would always bring me short logs, one day I asked him how he would measure them and he said he "paced them off heel to toe", when I looked down it was like a cartoon, I had never noticed that Josh has the smallest feet of any man alive.  I am not kidding, he is a big guy and wears a size 8 or something like that. We did laugh about it and I donated a tape measure to the cause, which didn't seem to make much of a difference in the long run... ::)

I know a tree guy that always carried a tape, and used it.  ME  ;D    Something that I never did, was to lead a customer to believe that he could recoup his costs by selling the wood or logs.

Well, the trees came down today.  I have to credit the guy riding the cable, he did a pretty good job of cutting to length plus 6 inches.  He didn't cut off sections that were then taken down to the ground and measured and cut to length.  He did the measuring on the standing tree and sent the logs down to be stacked.

Now I just have to get someone to take them.  I do have one guy who has said he would want them but has to see them first. 

At this point I may not get a buyer and I am preparing myself to break down and make a deal to just have them taken away for free.  I can't have them stacked in my yard indefinitely

And I see a problem - they don't stack up to as many as I expected.  Maybe a half truck load?  They are really big, but who would come get them if they are half a load?

<gulp>

I buy some tree service logs
I will only pay 275 a thousand for the best ones
Most aren't cut the right length and the knots aren't trimed back enough 
Had one on the mill today 38" but cut 15' 
Some tree guys think their logs are gold

I'm sure there are some hobby sawmills near you. A lot of hobby millers have a setup to retrieve a few logs, and may even offer a few bucks. Another niche might be to find a chainsaw carver.

I am following this as I have a big pine being cut next Tuesday. One hundred sixteen feet high but the weevils look like they gnawed the leader more than a few times 40 feet on up. I still think there is some good wood down low. Once its on the ground I will figure out how much is salvageable. I think I measured the DBH was at least 43" (maybe 53" awhile ago). A friend has portable mill but too small for this beast. Looking at the ground around it, too rocky for a farm except maybe goat pasture. 

I have rocky ground here too. And it was farmed. 
Have to remember the grass was cut by hand, now with a machine 20 feet wide.
They only needed a little bit of hay too. Enough to feed a few cows and horses. 
I have stone walls way out in the woods and big rocks 10 feet from the wall.

Funny how all threads on the FF end up talking about food, unless Ray gets involved, then they talk about rocks.  :D

Its pretty obvious in my area of northern NH where people tried to farm, they just picked the biggest boulder they could not move and started piling rocks and eventually it turned into a wall that they could use to hold animals. My lot is steep on the side of a valley. there is evidence that someone farmed for rocks as I have found a few split boulders with drill marks where he split went bad. In most cases the farmer followed the river valleys and farmed the floodplains and kept the steep hills to either sides for woodlots and maple syrup operations. Around the civil war there was a incredible demand for wood and wool so many of the hillsides got stripped for wood to go to southern New England and the land was used to sheep pastures. The farms north of the Notches in NH tend to be in the valleys and the wood was cut a bit later in the cycle. 

I wish I could buy white pine standing for $300 a thousand , I pay way way more than that for it 

 I actually don't know what standing white pine is going for here in northern MN right now. Red pine saw timber is up in the $100-$200/1000 range depending on how far it is from the mill, white pine would be the same or slightly less I suppose.

 I'm picturing Ray visiting the local mental health therapist, reclined in the patient couch as the therapist says to him, "so Ray, tell me more about your rocks."😁

 

Is blue stain the same as spalting, which I am familiar with?  What I don't know is how long I might have before it gets going to a degree that would damage its value.

Advice?

I have one guy who has said he would want them but has to see them first.  I just wonder how much I should bug him to come

And finally, does anyone know why any attempt to post a picture ends up upside down?  This photo has been added several times, half the time I had it flipped in a photo editor app.  I wanted to show how big a pile I ended up with.  

The biggest is 40" at the butt


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/73091/IMG_3807~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1683306273)
 

Quote from: SonOfEru on May 05, 2023, 10:39:12 AM
Is blue stain the same as spalting, which I am familiar with?  What I don't know is how long I might have before it gets going to a degree that would damage its value.

Advice?

I have one guy who has said he would want them but has to see them first.  I just wonder how much I should bug him to come

And finally, does anyone know why any attempt to post a picture ends up upside down?  This photo has been added several times, half the time I had it flipped in a photo editor app.  I wanted to show how big a pile I ended up with.  

The biggest is 40" at the butt


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/73091/IMG_3807~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1683297190)

Your computer is using a VPN based out of Australia where even the photos are upside down.    The real investigation is set up your internet with a VPN.

If I remember correctly, White Pine, much like Sugar Maple can stain fast as soon as it is cut. Try to move it ASAP. When I hauled logs in the 1970s I saw some nice pine that laid at the landing not very long, but too long.If there is someone interested who has a mill, possibly (others may have an opinion on this) you could agree on a price and get paid half when picked up, then the rest if it saws out well. The worst that could happen is you might have trouble collecting the balance. I would not drag my feet.

New Hampshire Stumpage Values

Property Average Stumpage Values

Stumpage values are calculated two times per year with a survey completed by local foresters.
The results of the surveys are calculated and new lists are published every March (covering April 1 - September 30) and September (covering October 1 to March 31).
Please contact the Municipal and Property Division with questions at (603) 230-5950.
All documents have been saved in Portable Document Format (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/graphics/icon-pdf.gif).
Each link below contains all three district areas: Northern, Central, and Southern (3 pages).

• October 1, 2022 - March 31, 2023 (PDF) (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-val-10-22-03-23.pdf)
• April 1, 2022 - September 30, 2022 (PDF) (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-val-4-22-09-22.pdf)
• October 1, 2021 - March 31, 2022 (PDF) (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-val-10-21-03-22.pdf)
• April 1, 2021 - September 30, 2021 (PDF) (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-val-04-21-09-21.pdf)
• October 1, 2020 - March 31, 2021 (PDF) (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-val-10-20-03-21.pdf)
• April 1, 2020 - September 30, 2020 (PDF) (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-val-4-20-09-20.pdf)
• October 1, 2019 - March 31, 2020 (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-val-10-19-03-20.pdf) (PDF) (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-val-4-20-09-20.pdf)
• April 1, 2019 - September 30, 2019 (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-val-4-19-09-19.pdf) (PDF) (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-val-4-20-09-20.pdf)
• October 1, 2018 - March 31, 2019 (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-values-10-18-03-19.pdf) (PDF) (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-val-4-20-09-20.pdf)
• April 1, 2018 - September 30, 2018 (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-values-04-18-09-18.pdf) (PDF) (https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/property/documents/avg-stump-val-4-20-09-20.pdf)

dairyguy -

Where do you see VPN?  Does it show in ipconfig? And how do you see it?

And Ron Scott - stumpage price is for standing timber, nespah?  These are ready to load and go to a mill.  

But I do recognize mine are not even a full truckload, and there's the question of metal.

The decision to cut them was made for safety reasons alone.  But having worked in the woods for 50 years [firewood not logging] and having a passing understanding that logs have money value, and knowing there are mills around here, I've just hoped to save some money off the cost of the cutting.

I still have my hope, but I wouldn't be surprised if I have to pay someone to take them away.  The tree company took $400 off the cost when I said I wanted the logs to sell them.  Maybe I'll lose even more than that.

There's a song from my youth - "You Can't Always Get What You Want".  Always liked that song, though it was the only Stones song that I did.

Due to  your latitude it took longer for your pictures to rotate in the correct position, they look fine now.  ;D

I tend to be picky but I would also have set them on some sort of stringers or even branches to keep them off the ground. I understand it isn't intended that they be here long enough for that to cause them to degrade. However it does make a difference in keeping the bark clean for longer blade life especially if you get a gully-washer in the meantime. Also depending on who takes them and what sort of equipment is available it can be easier to pick them up with a spacer.

 I wouldn't expect them to be on stringers, loggers don't do that for the most part. 

 White pine blue stains pretty quickly once the conditions are right. It doesn't really hurt the wood, but it is a "stain". If the guy that is interested in them wants them to be white, he needs to get moving on them right away. 

 Honestly, I'd put an ad on FB marketplace or Craigslist if it was me. For a small sawmill, it might be just the logs they are looking for. I would price them somewhat relative to what mills are paying for delivered white pine logs in your area. If the mill is paying $400/1000, I'd probably try to get $300-$350 where they are, they are decked up well. See where it leads, it may be just what someone is looking for. Or it may be that it at least opens a conversation with someone that is only willing to pay half the going rate because they would have to haul a skid steer over to load them. 

That is a hard sell.I paid $250.00 to have a tree service bring a load of pine from a neighbor's job they were doing.It was less than 1/2 loaded mile.None of the logs was as big as the 41'' which was fine for me.I live in central Vermont.I have found that there is no such thing as free logs.

Quote from: barbender on May 05, 2023, 03:39:52 PM
I wouldn't expect them to be on stringers, loggers don't do that for the most part.

Oh no doubt. I did fess up to being picky and that was my 2 cents on this "special situation" where he's likely to be dealing with a small-timer like me. Every little bit helps in making the logs attractive to a potential buyer. If someone is already used to buying logs from loggers they are likely to be a larger operation, debarker equipped etc.
If the offers are slow in coming it may be worth slapping a coat of paint on the ends.

I would not want to buy the logs if you paint the ends to where I can't read the grain. Unless you have enough extra length that it can be trimmed off and still make the lengths needed.

If i remember blue stain starts a 80F.   Those logs look like they got weevil damage 
repeatedly. But its not as obvious due to the diameter. I also think you'd be doing well just to get them hauled away due to the small volume an other obstacles. Log truck here in central VT is 150/hr. 

No big white pine on the ground for me. The tree firm came and did a nice job on a Red Oak leaning over a road that was of secondary importance, but the choker rope they use to go around the pine tree for the climbers harness was too short for the diameter of the white pine even if they went 30' up with an extension ladder. There is minimal taper for the first 40 or 50 feet. So they need to order a longer choker (may not be the right name) and return. Meanwhile two red oak logs for a friends mill. Its the only red oak bigger than 4" on 83 acres. I think the butt log is 16"  

Seems strange that the climber didn't make a temporary flipline long enough for the climb out of the tail of his climbing line.  ::)

Well, how about that!  I got an offer of $275/1000!

Picked up at the site?

Yup!!

My own estimate with my scale stick is about 3000 bf.  But I dont know how to estimate curvature, knots, etc.

A learning experience.  I first talked with the buyer first few days of May.  Took him almost 2 weeks to show up.  He gave me a quote I was grateful for (I wasn't getting lots of calls) and then took 3 weeks to come get them.  Then took another almost 3 weeks to send me the check.  All along I just kept thinking -- is this how long things take?  Or am I never gonna hear from him and have to chase after him??  But all came through, and I'm grateful for getting the money I got.  My wife needles me about worrying about stuff.  So maybe this will add to the pile of things I didnt need to worry about.

Thanks for all the posts!

That's all typical in the timber industry. But I know what you mean, when someone owes me money it is always in the back of my mind until I get that check in hand!

Quote from: SonOfEru on May 13, 2023, 10:32:16 AM
Yup!!

My own estimate with my scale stick is about 3000 bf.  But I dont know how to estimate curvature, knots, etc.

Look at the small end and visualize a straight round cylinder and scale that.  The knots are part of the grade.

$275, is that on the landing,  sounds reasonable if so, especially for a short load.
I got $415/mbf delivered to the mill last fall.
I paid for trucking and cleared $345.