This only happened once last year but it happened twice this past week. My bill as $27.68 and I gave the waitress $40.00 and when I counted my change it was $12.00 even, no explanation of the missing 38 cents. When I asked her she said they don't carry change anymore so they just round up, :o I told her I was going to leave a 5 but I'm rounding down to 3. Next place my bill ended in .90 so when he rounded up it was only a dime but he gave the same story, different bar/restaurant so I only rounded down one dollar, but I told him it cost him to do that. Am I just too old fashioned or should they at least offer the coin part of the change?
Pay with a card and use the exact amount or bring rolls of pennies and pay the exact amount with the partial dollars in pennies.
They should have a sign stating that they're gonna charge you more than the stated price if you pay cash. That's BS to me too
I had a drive through do that to me once, I caught it before leaving and made her get the change while I waited at the window with cars lined up behind me.
Didn't happen the next time I went through.
Around here many restaurants charge extra 3percent for using card.
There is a cost involved in keeping change on hand, often the banks charge a service fee for this. Locally the smallest banknotes are $5, and the smallest coin is 10c. Supermarkets will still price to the cent, and round to the nearest 10 using 5/6 rounding. 5 cents is rounded down, 6 cents rounded up. Card payments are exact amounts.
Most eateries price to the nearest 50c or $1, depending on how fancy they are. But even then you have some change in $1 and $2 coins. But 95% is card payments anyway.
Currently discussions are going on about how to keep cash circulating for those that prefer to use it. There's a cost involved, but it now only accounts for ~2% of the economic ransactions, and electronic payments are actually cheaper to operate (Credit card companies excluded)
This is an interesting discussion. Pennies are no longer in circulation here so prices are rounded 5/6 after taxes as Ianab suggests. I so seldom pay in cash so it's not a worry for me, my only cash payments are my rent which is an even amount, I won't get into the story, and the dog groomer.
I agree a very interesting topic. My philosophy is simple. If they tell me up front by either sign or wait staff I will pay by credit card this time, but probably not come back again. Just another push to eliminate cash so all purchases/income can be tracked. Bad enough I cannot get a discount for using cash anymore even though the business pays 3-4% if I use my card. They have already jacked their prices to cover the card fee so why should I give them additional profit by gouging a good customer. We eat out alot less these days because of this type of craziness.
People (and it seems many businesses) seem to think that there are no costs associated with cash transactions, but there is. It costs time, and actual money to secure it, account for it, take it to the bank, get change organised etc.
When cash was still more commonly used, it was standard practice for the supermarket cashier to actually ask if card paying customers wanted to withdraw any extra cash. The fees for the local EFTPOS system are low enough that it was more convenient to hand it back to customers, and have most of the daily takings credited directly into their account. These days they will still do this, subject to having enough cash in the draw, but you have to ask.
But the fees for EFTPOS are low, less than 1% as the system doesn't involve the credit card companies, it's a direct bank to bank transfer. It's become so popular that the Govt now has to make policy to actually keep some cash in circulation. Not all smaller businesses accept credit cards, because of the higher fees, but anyone in a retail business accepts EFTPOS.
Wait staff usually don't ring things up, its a cashier and a lot of times the manager/owner. So the staff just does what they are told. The thing is that the money probably ends up in the register and not as a tip to the staff.
I would watch a few transactions and see if the change is put in a tip jar.
Quote from: Ianab on May 15, 2023, 09:59:56 PMThere is a cost involved in keeping change on hand, often the banks charge a service fee for this. Locally the smallest banknotes are $5, and the smallest coin is 10c. Supermarkets will still price to the cent, and round to the nearest 10 using 5/6 rounding. 5 cents is rounded down, 6 cents rounded up. Card payments are exact amounts. Most eateries price to the nearest 50c or $1, depending on how fancy they are. But even then you have some change in $1 and $2 coins. But 95% is card payments anyway. Currently discussions are going on about how to keep cash circulating for those that prefer to use it. There's a cost involved, but it now only accounts for ~2% of the economic ransactions, and electronic payments are actually cheaper to operate (Credit card companies excluded)
This sounds like the mirror image of the cash/card situation in Norway.
The US military exchanges in Iraq and Afghanistan when I was working there in the early to mid 2000s used to print their own change in little cardboard tokens in 5, 10 & 25 cent amounts. Everything was rounded to the nearest 5 cents at the register. They would take coins if you paid in them but unless specifically asked they never returned them. We could use the tokens just like coins or turn them in for paper money when we had $1 amounts. No telling how many were destroyed in the laundry or just never cashed in. I figure it was a decent profit center for them.
In Saudi when you checked out if you were less than a Riyal they would toss in a box or two of Chicklets type gum as your change.
A long time ago, I heard a Dave Ramsey type of commentator said it was smart to pay cash for dining out. The simple reason is that long after you had your meal, you still had to pay for it. Budgeting is a lot easier if you pay in cash. Either you have the cash or you don't. Meanwhile, US credit card debt has now surpassed $1 trillion. The banks are very happy.
When tipping, I just put it in with the price of the meal. I pay and don't ask for change. I carry enough bills to handle any bill. If there's any change less than a dollar, that lets management and wait staff battle over the loose change.
I see now they're asking you if you want to tip where there is self service.
To Ron's point, the tip for self service. . . I got it during kungflu when people were locked down, but we're not anymore, so no more tips for self service please.
I also try to pay cash for food / fun /toys. If I don't have the cash for those activities, I should probably hold off til I do
I do the same as Ron. I don't eat out much but when I do I always pay cash. Put the cost of the meal and the tip on the table or hand it to the server and never expect any change. Now and then I get caught with only a larger bill in my pocket so have to wait for change but it is rare. My mother worked in restaurants most of her life and I have a soft spot in my heart for them folks putting up with some of their customers, so I tend to over tip anyway. Giving them 5 bucks extra isn't much but it can sure put a smile on the servers face. The ones that have gotten to where they just expect it, regardless of the service, do get under my skin though.
Next thing you know the gas stations in states that let you fill your own car will want a convenience tip for the cashier who you go in to pay cash. Or the pump will want a tip because it is going to become AI.
Many restaurants in our area round down if 25 cents or less. Have not seen any of them round up. I pay like Ron. Part of the tip is the change. If anyone is going to round my money, it will be me.
If you want my money, do not treat me like a cash cow.
We are a changeless business. We don't accept coinage. It's always good for business, the way we do it and it makes for happy customers. I'm not going to quibble over a quarter or a few dimes and pennies if somebody hands me a few hundred$$ in cash, or even just a few bucks.
In all cash cases, we round DOWN, and give the money back to the customer. They are happy, we don't make a big deal of it, but the customers always notices it and thanks us. Somebody hands us cash, I say "We don't do change" and they immediately get their hackles up. So I smile and say, "Nope, we round down, you get to keep the money, and we don't have to deal with it." Some even offer to give us exact change, and we say nope, thanks for your business, consider it a tip or cash back, for you, as a customer. Then the customer smiles, and sometimes even says, like the guy last weekend "I've finally found a business that doesn't cheat me!"
Yep, welcome to Hobby Hardwood. An honest business, come again anytime. And they will. It's just the right thing to do and it's good for customer relations.
;D ;D ;D
In restaurants I pay with cash and round the total up to the next dollar amount, add the tip, and generally hand it to the waitress and say "no change back". I would never reduce my tip because I didn't get change back.
I don't want my credit card to ever leave my hands nor my eyesight.
When figuring my sawing invoice, I knock the decimals off after adding the bf, and then knock the cents off for an even dollar invoice amount.
Quote from: twar on May 16, 2023, 03:14:49 AM
This sounds like the mirror image of the cash/card situation in Norway.
Yeah, some Scandinavian countries are almost cashless now. Because it's not a credit card and is linked to your bank account you can't spend money you dont have.
Other thing they have at some gas stations is Pay By Plate. Camera reads your number plate and charges your credit card automatically.
At my shop, I do not do change. Not even small bills. I price to the closest 5-10$ downward. They like it when I calculate 134$ and charge them $130. I especially don't do change for our TAX system. As I tell customers the next person will get or pay for the little differences there are.
Customers really like it when they pay cash.
At the restaurant If I pay with CC , I pay the tip in cash if I can for the times I do not have the proper cash on hand. We do not go out nearly as much as pre covid.
Rounding against the customer is disrespecting their labor.
Treat the customer with the respect they deserve, they can go elsewhere.
I don't do coins. I do use cash a lot. If I'm buying something, I'll tell the cashier to keep the coins, leave it in the register, depending on how they are, and if I do decide to walk out with it in my hand it goes in a cup in my truck.
If I happen by a beggar who really looks like they can use it, I hand them the cup. Anyone I've ever given such a cup with noticeable weight of coins in really appreciated it.
I just can't even think about 38 cents, one way or the other.
I never ever eat fast food or drink soda but every so often about twice a year I get the hankering for a McDonalds fountain Coca cola. Couple weeks ago was the day.
Line to the drive in was out to the road but plenty of parking so I walked in.
Huge touchscreen self ordering station so I ordered up a medium soda. Swiped my card, got a number and waited.
Couple minutes later my number is called so I walk up and the girl handed me a empty medium cup.
She asked if I would like to leave a tip.
Here's were those You Tube fights in McDonalds start..
I asked her a tip for what?
MY service.
All you did was reach down, grab a empty cup and hand it to me. No soda, straw or top.
What's the tip for again?
Instant chicken neck attitude raising her voice about some crap.
Me I'm a calm guy, I thanked her for her service and got my soda pop.
On coins, used to be I emptied out my pockets every night and put the coins in a cup. When the cup got filled they went into a coffee can and put away. No more coins.
Now I do it with dollar bills if I have any.
I guess the dollar is the new quarter.
I'm trying to figure out if the $50 is the new $20 or is it the $100 with the price of things anymore.
I have an adult entertainer as a tenant. She used to pay with $1's and $5's but now it's $10's and $20's.
Inflation
😂😂 The ones don't get no shake anymore, I guess?🤷
It would irritate me if someone tried to round my bill up. If it's not a big deal, why don't they round it down?
Tip jars on a counter irritate me, too. Really, I hate the whole tipping system. I'm not cheap either, I always leave waitresses a nice tip because I know that they don't make much for wages and their income is based on tips. Some kid that hands you something from behind the counter and nothing else doesn't qualify🤷
I guess I am on the other extreme. I use up my coins and very frequently give the cashier exact change. If I don't have the exact change I will use up my pennies and dollar bills to get bigger change back to reduce the number of coins and small bills in my pocket and wallet. It frequently blows the cashiers minds to plug in the amount I gave them into the cash register and find my change will be even numbers like $5 and 75 cents or such. Basic math is beyond most cashiers today. They punch the picture on the screen and it sends the price to the cash register which then tells them how much change to give. If the power or internet goes off they have to shut down their business till it comes back on.
My wife traded her truck in a year ago and we found over $40 in pennies and small change. On a project in Norway I had the only bank account. Our team members would throw their coins in a jar and at the end of the project they would bring them to me to cash in for dollars. They would see a copper Kroner and think Pennies but they should have been thinking dimes. 100 K coins looked like our quarters but were like $2. I'd take their jar of coins to the bank, dump them in a coin counting machine which put the money in my account and I'd give them US dollars when I got back to the office. Often they would have several hundred dollars in a quart sized jar and not realize it.
Seems like the euros have gone the other way. Paper money is 50, 20, 10 and 5.
Coin is 2 and 1 euros with 50, 20, 10, 5, 2 and 1 cents!
I pay cash or debit, no charge on my end for debit. A lot of banks will charge their clients debit fees, not mine. With cash, I always like change. The 2's and 1's here are coins and they go into my car wash fund. The other coins I roll them for cash at the bank. I usually fill a Pringles can before rolling and cashing in. :D Cash is used widely here, I've never heard the government say they were going to eliminate cash, not a peep. But we are one country where cash can be refused for payment. Just because you have cash doesn't mean the seller has to accept it. That being said, anything I have sold on Kijiji (an online market place in Canada) was always cash payment.
To me it's the principle of keeping some of my change without saying anything, the amount is not the point. Two businesses away from the one I mentioned is another small place we eat at and they have a sign saying Cash Only, no credit cards! Two other local restaurants won't take cards for under $30. and I'm OK with any of these polices that are posted, I just don't agree with any rounding up without notice.
@Raider Bill (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=4445) perhaps your tennant has upped her game instead of inflation. :D
Quote from: SwampDonkey on May 16, 2023, 04:44:57 PMCash is used widely here, I've never heard the government say they were going to eliminate cash, not a peep.
Like I mentioned, cash really isn't widely used, but the Govt have come out and said they are committed to keeping it in use, to at least some extent. Things like private sales over the internet / garage sales etc it's still useful. When I get / use some cash the change is usually left on my desk, and the kids will hit me up for coins when the school has a mufti day (gold coin donation) or a sausage sizzle and they need a few dollars. So it gets used that way. Let the school secretary count and bank it, obviously they end up with $hundreds in coins, so it's worth doing.
I still have a couple of $5 coins and a $3 note from the Cook Islands. They are only legal tender in the Islands, but are worth the same as $NZ. They have their own currency, but it's tied to the NZ$, so both currencies are in circulation.
There are frequent reports of small business's that take a cut of the tips for waitstaff if its charged to a credit card. If I need to use a card, I usually set the tip at zero and hand the waiter cash. There was a local burrito chain that got tagged with this at several of their stores, they had to pay a lot of money to ex employees, got fined and had to sign a consent decree to never do it again. I notice when I went there after it was settled there as a neat sign at the register that the employees prefer cash for tips
Seniors here as well as social assistance folks are at the bank on cheque day. A lot of older folks don't use direct deposit like younger folks. They want that cash in their hand. My mom is one, she wants cash on cheque day. :)
Ironically in the early days of the Pandemic, the folks that relied on cash were the ones that had a problem. EFTPOS and Internet Banking were considered essential services, and so were kept running, minimal staff with no public contact was low risk. Local Pensioner had always relied on going down to the bank and getting his pension in cash.
Dang, Pandemic lockdown and the local branch is closed. You can still get cash from the ATM, but he doesn't have a card, which you get for free with your account. Fortunately his friends / neighbours helped him out on an IOU basis, he had the money in his account, just no way to withdraw it So in his case, cash wasn't king, as he had no way of getting it.
Everyone here with an account has a card as well, so that was never an issue, you could get cash from the lobby machines. Although there is a daily limit of $1000 cash. Seniors never had fees, until after the pandemic ended, like had been no fees for years before either, now there is, then they apply a discount where they pay half that a working stiff would.
Yeah, Old Mate could have had a free EFTPOS card and got his cash from the ATM. all for free. It's cheaper for the bank that way. He just chose not to.
My dear Mom is in her 80's and not very computer savvy, but with the check system going away, she's adapted to smart phone banking easily enough.
I'm like a lot of seniors here, don't have a smart phone, never will. No service here at the house, would have to drive up a hill from here to connect. Cell towers all hidden by big hills, so it's useless anyway. In an emergency, I've seen land lines have access where cell phones might be out for 2 days and no charging. Internet phone was even worst than a land line. Way more times an internet connection is gone, power grid down, but the land line works. Our power here is routed in a weird way. I'm near a power dam, but it goes miles away from here to a sub to be sent back. I can get internet on with the generator, but the tower needs power to it to work. And it is only 15 miles away in a straight line. ATM now is all scan for deposit, cheques stacked with cash to scan when deposited. This was before pandemic. The government finally woke up and let you pay property tax and vehicle reg online though your bank. Don't know why they never did it years ago like everyone else. I'll bet it cost a lot more to set up because they were forced into it and the installers cashed in. They'll never disclose that bill I bet. Especially with vehicle reg because they need to be able to tie into insurance companies to verify insurance, and they don't do it for free. Before, all they needed was the insurance card, has expiry right on it. :D
I did some food service in high school before CC's were a form of payment. We were delivering pizza's and had cash on us, which was not a great thing in some places. When I started tips were unreported. then the gov't stepped in and just like the unscrupulous boss that dips into the wait staff's tips, Uncle Sam wanted us to report our tips, for our benefit of course. Funny no one made a tip from then on. I may or may not pay with cash but I tip cash, at my discretion, and what the recipient does with it is entirely up to them.
A lot of eating establishments here are charging 3 percent for credit cards.
I am going more and more to cash.
I usually leave the tipping to my wife who is a VERY generous tipper regardless of the quality of the service.
Happy wife etc.
Quote from: Southside on May 16, 2023, 07:21:24 PM
@Raider Bill (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=4445) perhaps your tennant has upped her game instead of inflation. :D
Depends on what got inflated!
I looked down yesterday just as the new pup was about to chomp my air hose, DanG near blew up the pup :D.
Sort of related but reminded me of all the times I get asked to donate to whatever cause at the cashier, sometimes I do but more often than not i say no thanks, which results in a stink eye "this cheap basturd" kind of look. Sorry not sorry lady in this day in age every dollar counts. Go admin modify
A bicycle shop that I frequent has set their prices to the nearest 25 cents, with tax included. The logic is that a bicyclist doesn't want a pocket full of change when riding. The owner makes her accountant figure out the tax on the back side, that is the $2.00 soda is really $1.88 plus 12 cents sales tax. I like the system and wish all business would just include the sales tax on the shelf sticker.
I usually leave the extra quarter in the donation jar for the bike trail.
Doug in SW IA
Those put you on the spot donation requests at the till irritate me, too.
Quote from: barbender on May 17, 2023, 04:48:55 PM
Those put you on the spot donation requests at the till irritate me, too.
Usually some cause like children IWK(hospital) or something, which isn't a bad cause but.... This is not the time or economy to be requesting dollars from people lol. I got asked today to donate a dollar and I said no and after that the cashier wasn't friendly at all lol
It irritates me, because I like to be able to research an organization to make sure that the money gets to where it's supposed to. If 75% goes to staffing etc, no I'm not giving you any money.
Since some mentioned taxes, in my first post that started this both of those restaurants were in Delaware where there is no sales tax, all meals should be in even dollars, instead of $22.95 just make it $23.
How many places do you try to walk into and there is a table at the door. "Will you donate to.." Once, just once, I might go all Airplane on them. :D
On the donations I heard a new guy joined a new firm and it was close to the holidays and everybody seemed to have a can or box on their desk asking for donations to their favorite cause. He put one up "For the children of Israel". He was making pretty good headway till the HR rep came over with his new name plate and after that his donations plummeted. His name was Israel Johnson. ::) :D
So, this is a bit of a rant.
My stepson and his family were going to be out of town with sports events for his two kids on Mother's Day weekend.
So, he planned and took his mother, my wife, out to lunch the Wednesday before Mother's Day. All well and good. His sister and his wife went along too. His sister has two kids and is a mother also. He has two kids, so his wife is also a mother.
This sister wanted something special for Mother's Day. She searched around for different restaurants and found several that were having "all you can eat" buffets. The cost either $55 or $48, and you had to make reservations. My wife said she'd never eat $55 worth of food at a buffet. And neither would her daughter.
I suggested that we do this Mother's Day dinning out on Saturday and avoid the Mother's Day madness at just about every restaurant anywhere.
They agreed. So, we planned on traveling south to Wilmington, NC to go to a Japanese steak house for dinner. You know the type where you sit around the grill and watch him prepare the food for you.
There is a nice one in Wilmington that we had been too before. And we were going to go to that one again.
On the way there she planned for us to go to a fancy bake shop to buy a special cake or two for us to have on Saturday after this dinner out.
Now the bake shop closed at 4pm. So, we left at 1pm (not having any lunch) to get there by 2pm so that they wouldn't be sold out of all the nice cakes.
We got there and got two nice cakes. (of course, I paid for them) as I should.
I set my gps to go to the Japanese steak house, and the system says: Not open till 4pm!
Next, we decided to go someplace else as we were all hungry as no one had had any lunch.
We selected one of these fancy restaurants that was going to the special Mother's Day buffet. We drove over there and found it. Next to the restaurant was a "pay to park" lot. And I paid $21 for parking for 3 hours.
We entered the lobby of the restaurant, and the hostess came over and said that they were not accepting any reservations that day, if we didn't have one. Well, it was Saturday, and in the middle of the day (not rush hour at lunch or dinner time, it was 2:45 pm). There were empty tables everywhere. There were guests walking out, a party of over 6 people, all carrying leftover boxes.
And we felt that we didn't need a reservation to just walk in and have a mid-day lunch.
But she said they were not seating anyone, now. And again, not taking any reservations for that day. She basically turned us away, and would not serve us, so we left. Not happy about that at all. I walked up one side street to find the doors to the next place locked. Not opening till 4 p.m.
My stepdaughter found a place around the corner. She called them to ask if we could get in and have 5 people for lunch. They said yes.
We walked over there and got two tables of four pushed together to get enough room for her and her husband and her two children. One toddler and one infant. As well as me, my wife and daughter.
We ordered 5 meals for adults on one child meal from the menu.
I paid for all by debit card. My stepdaughter's husband asked if he could leave the tip. I said yes, and he handed me $20 for the tip. I signed the slip and left the tip line blank and put the cash in there with the slip, left it on the table and walked over to the hostess station and told our waitress that I left her cash for the tip.
I get home and find an email from my debit account saying that I paid the bill with an automatic gratuity of $21.71. I was pithed off. I opened a dispute with the debit card company saying that I didn't authorize the automatic gratuity. I've emailed the restaurant saying that I have read their online menu and nowhere does it say that they will automatically add a gratuity to your slip. No reply as yet.
Still pithed off. What they did is not right in my book, at all.
I wrote a bad review of the first restaurant on trip advisor, and a second bad review for the place where we ate, for the automatic gratuity feature, on my bill.
End of rant.
Jim Rogers
A lot of places have a sign out about the automatic gratuity on large parties. I'd be mad too if they did it with no notification, after you left a cash tip.
See - I would have just eaten the cake, forget about the restaurants. But then again, I am a bit of a redneck. :D
Oh - and you live in the south now. Two words. Golden Corral. :D
In Italy, tipping is not a thing. Food is not taxed, prices generally end even or 50 cent. And a few times I've gotten a bill rounded down a couple euro because they didn't have any small change. Smallest paper bills is the 5.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on May 18, 2023, 02:50:04 AM
In Italy, tipping is not a thing. Food is not taxed, prices generally end even or 50 cent. And a few times I've gotten a bill rounded down a couple euro because they didn't have any small change. Smallest paper bills is the 5.
Similar to NZ, although everything is taxed ::)
But by law the advertised price has to be what you need to pay. So prices are tax inclusive, and any extra fees have to be disclosed up front. Again tipping isn't expected, minimum wage laws ensure the staff are paid. Most places have to pay above the minimum to attract / keep good (or any) staff anyway.
It's generally accepted that parties of 6 or more get a tip added to the bill around here. Most menus say that.
Several are doing the auto tip for all tabs with no notification and the thing the servers do is not tell anyone so they get a double tip.
Has anybody else noticed hours seem to be shrinking at food establishments? Case in point is a Tex Mex near me. Open 11-3, then they reopen 5 until 8. Upscale joints that might have a separate dinner/lunch menu I can understand. Tacos, Burritos, Quesadillas? Really good Guacamole also but that's the basic menu.
Is this just local because other places here seem to be adopting some really strange hours?
I get my hair cut at one of those chains that gives senior discounts and military discounts for veterans depending on the phase of the moon or whether there is an R in the month. Sorta up to whoever did the work at checkout. I hand them cash including a tip and let them figure out which discounts I get as I walk out the door.
Haha, am I reading no discounts, no tip?😁
Strange hours because they probably can't get the necessary help.
Reduced hours also likely because there was not enough business at those times for that kind of establishment to justify paying the costs to remain open. I see nothing wrong with that - just a simple business decision based on economics. Same as us sawyers deciding which logs we will saw and which aren't worth the time and risk/cost.
I am a big proponent of allowing maximum flexibility to businesses and let supply and demand determine which ones stay in business, expand or fail.
@Claybraker (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=19499) I see some restaurants do that to allow for cleanup and prep before the next rush. Regarding rounding up, because we no longer have pennies for currency merchants charge cash sales to the nearest nickel if the total comes to 3 cents or more, two cents or less gets rounded down. It is because of our sales tax structure. Once nickels and dimes disappear pricing will have to change.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on May 18, 2023, 03:39:00 PMReduced hours also likely because there was not enough business at those times for that kind of establishment to justify paying the costs to remain open
Yup, our local brewpub only opens 5 days a week, It's a small operation, so the owners and staff get Monday and Tuesday off. Those would be their slowest days anyway. Longer hours on Saturday and Sunday when there is more custom.
No point staying open and paying $100 an hour in wages for a $50 turnover. :-\
Anyone that adds tips to my bill doesn't get a tip. No exceptions, no excuses and I will see the manager and I will make a seen
I worked decades in the service industry and I never asked or expected a tip
A mandatory "tip" isn't a tip, it's just a price increase. Just put the price up 10%, say "tips not required", and pay your staff better. End result is going to be the same, without the deception of adding on charges later.
We invoice customers via square for delivery on the farm side. When setting up the system it asks you if you want it to promp and ask the customer to leave a tip, that was disabled before invoice #1 was ever created.
Not going to be that business.
The cutting of hours goes way before the lockdowns. I have played in bands for decades and have seen the hours go from playing 10-2 to now playing 8-11 for bars. Restaurant/bar pubs have slashed that back to 7-10 and don't use full bands. Even DJs aren't being used.
A lot of restaurants have cut out the afternoon lunch since there hasn't been people willing to go out and spend the bucks for lunch. I've also seen some of them cut our a day or two. Most places are open 4-10. It has more to do with bar traffic. No one goes out late at night anymore. Hooking up is done on line and not at the local pub. The music scene has practically dried up in my area. The local convenience stores close at 10 instead of being open all night. Traffic has started to vanish at night on secondary roads.
The only exception to this seems to be in tourist areas during tourist season. The other exception is restaurants that offer breakfast. It seem even they're getting to be less.
Speaking if breakfast Ron, my mother in law and I needed blood work yesterday mornin. This was a fasting blood work. Her and my 10 & 11 year-old tagged along. We went out to eat @ black bear something or another in the city. Was a 4.4 rating. My son ordered a kids meal. My daughter egg, bacon and 2 pancakes. Mother in law same. I ordered a breakfast club sandwich. Bill was $58 and change. I told the kids that's why we're not eating out anymore. Plus i asked them how it tasted. Better then home, ask said no, not even close. Just not spending that much coin for a subpar meal
Quote from: Sedgehammer on May 19, 2023, 12:28:01 PM
Speaking if breakfast Ron, my mother in law and I needed blood work yesterday mornin. This was a fasting blood work. Her and my 10 & 11 year-old tagged along. We went out to eat @ black bear something or another in the city. Was a 4.4 rating. My son ordered a kids meal. My daughter egg, bacon and 2 pancakes. Mother in law same. I ordered a breakfast club sandwich. Bill was $58 and change. I told the kids that's why we're not eating out anymore. Plus i asked them how it tasted. Better then home, ask said no, not even close. Just not spending that much coin for a subpar meal
Does cost money for someone else to cook and feed you. No two ways about it.
I can understand shortened hours but that 2 hour gap doesn't seem like they would be saving money, I mean they are there either cleaning up or getting ready for the next day.
One of our local brew pubs has some really strange hours also. The attached gun range used to open at 10, now 11am sorta periodically during the week the brew pub is open and the axe throwing side everything is in full swing Friday Saturday for date night specials.
What's more romantic than firing guns and throwing sharp objects?
A local Mexican place used to close for a few hours between lunch and dinner, sign on the door, menus, and online said they were having a siesta. Now, I know I could use a mid day nap, got to try and work that into my job
Quote from: Claybraker on May 19, 2023, 05:51:28 PMI can understand shortened hours but that 2 hour gap doesn't seem like they would be saving money, I mean they are there either cleaning up or getting ready for the next day
If you take in a late lunch break, shift changes and some cleanup and prep work, then you have accounted for several hours in the afternoon. Or even a siesta ;) Much easier to get done if you aren't staying open on the off chance of getting a couple of stray walk-ins.
There are food places in town that are open all day, Subway and "hot bread shops" that sell pretty much everything but bread. (pies sandwiches, cakes and sometimes hot food). Smaller takeaways often do a lunch opening, then close for a few hours, and open again for dinner.
My uncle once visited a remote fishing village in Newfoundland by helicopter, he was with a friend who was there on business and had some time to kill and noticed a cafe up the hill from the dock were they had landed, seeing that it was lunch time he decided to check it out and walked up only to find a sign in the window that said closed for lunch. I wish he had taken a picture.
Quote from: beenthere on May 19, 2023, 04:23:17 PM
Quote from: Sedgehammer on May 19, 2023, 12:28:01 PM
Speaking if breakfast Ron, my mother in law and I needed blood work yesterday mornin. This was a fasting blood work. Her and my 10 & 11 year-old tagged along. We went out to eat @ black bear something or another in the city. Was a 4.4 rating. My son ordered a kids meal. My daughter egg, bacon and 2 pancakes. Mother in law same. I ordered a breakfast club sandwich. Bill was $58 and change. I told the kids that's why we're not eating out anymore. Plus i asked them how it tasted. Better then home, ask said no, not even close. Just not spending that much coin for a subpar meal
Does cost money for someone else to cook and feed you. No two ways about it.
Agreed. Just I'm not going to participate at those prices
In our area, places open for breakfast have lower prices than those open with limited hours. My daughter works at one of those places as a busser. Their breakfast prices include coffee. My wife and I can eat breakfast for under $20 (with tip). On a Saturday morning, its hard to find a parking spot. I find it remarkable that they can sling hash at such a fast pace. They used to be open 24/7 but have removed the late night shift due to lack of business. You can get a burger and fries for $8, while the places that open later have double the price.
We have another spot up the road that is fairly run down. The formica on the countertop is worn off and the booths have duct tape repairs. But, their coffee is still a quarter, and their breakfast is low price. They close after lunch hour. Cheap eats and only locals go there. Quality leaves a bit to be desired.
I think the fast food joints have also cut into the breakfast market. Its easier to go get something from a very limited menu that's quick and portable.
Not to mention that the fast food joints enjoy the economy of scale, franchise out so issues fall at the feet of the franchisee and not the company, and have you actually looked at their list of ingredients? Wood by products show up in some products, cheaper to sell "chicken" nugget with sawdust in it than actual chicken breast.
And shaker bottle style Parmesan cheese has been full of sawdust a few years. We get it in block form and grate our own, no sawdust in that.
Kraft Parmesan (https://www.heb.com/product-detail/kraft-100-grated-parmesan-cheese/81264)
There's part of the problem, if we won't pay much and they have to pay help, it's got to come out of something. I prefer to eat good food at home. That said I know plenty of people that think of the kitchen as the room with the refrigerator. They eat sysco food all the time.
A builder friend of mine was building a house for a client in Raleigh who told him not to put an oven in the kitchen. He was talked out of that very bad idea, and the house was built with a normal kitchen.
A few years later, he was by there in preparations for building an addition on that house. The client carried him in the kitchen and showed him that the oven still had all the cardboard packing in it.
I had a customer approach me one time at a farmers market and ask me how to cook hamburger, not how to cook it better, how to cook it. She had never cooked meat. Give her credit, she was trying to learn new things, but that shocked me.
$60 for four people is kinda high.
But the way things are......
Eggs was $6-7 a dozen.
I see they are down to just about $2 now.
Just like Dunkin Donuts, $5-6 for each person.
We pay $15 for a burger and fries at the fast food joint, a family of four can't eat anywhere for less than 60 dollars. I have a good lunch with soup or salad, a hot entree and dessert at the legion once a week for ten bucks. I can't make it at home for that!
New hotel restaurant charges $20 for a hamburger. I can get a better one next door at the French Fry Hut, local Angus beef, for $4.75, fries $4.50. :D A man sized Angus burger is $8.50. Cash only. ;)
https://www.zmenu.com/french-fry-hut-florenceville-bristol-online-menu
I see they are missing an old fashioned flavour ice cream on that menu, vanilla grapenut. ;D
Still like home made burger and home made cut fries for maybe $3.50 - Local beef is $5.00-5.50/lb around here. Potatoes are practically free 9 months of the year. One large potato might be 25 cents. ;D
Quote from: Tom King on May 20, 2023, 12:40:07 PM
A builder friend of mine was building a house for a client in Raleigh who told him not to put an oven in the kitchen. He was talked out of that very bad idea, and the house was built with a normal kitchen.
A few years later, he was by there in preparations for building an addition on that house. The client carried him in the kitchen and showed him that the oven still had all the cardboard packing in it.
I had a coworker who lived in their new house 5 years before they found out their oven was never plugged in! They wanted to warm a pizza from the local pizzeria.
The electrician plugged it in and charged the regular service call amount.
I was in Aldis a few years ago and I saw this "lady" with a cart piled high with all prepared "food". On top of it all was a can of coffee. My wife wouldn't let me ask her if she realized she had to boil water for that.
Quote from: Don P on May 20, 2023, 12:02:36 PM
There's part of the problem, if we won't pay much and they have to pay help, it's got to come out of something. I prefer to eat good food at home. That said I know plenty of people that think of the kitchen as the room with the refrigerator. They eat sysco food all the time.
It's rarely, if ever restaurant food is better than home cooked, even high priced ones. We've gone out to for our anniversary @ some high dollar places a few times. Steaks over $100. They were decent, but nothing like the price indicated
Yes, its true YMMV for sure. But sometimes you get lucky. I used to spend a week in Chicago every other year for the big machine tool show. I would try to get a good steak every night. One time a dealer we did more business with than I would like insisted on taking our crew out for dinner. Holy cow that place was expensive. I had an $80. steak. that was just for the steak. A baked potatoes and another 10 bucks and I forget what a salad or vegetable added on. I was nuts and the steak was barely average, over cooked. I know they dropped over a grand on that dinner.
But there was a pub I liked going to, wish I could remember the name. I block west of Michigan ave. and under the EL. MAN! they had great steaks, melted in your mouth and reasonably priced. One of those pubs that had been in business for over 100 years and all the celebs went to back in the day. Never had a bad meal there and always better than we could make at home.
One year my niece was managing a very upscale restaurant in Chicago and I asked the guys I was with to join me for dinner there. It had been on some list of the top 10 restaurants in the US. It was called the 'Purple Pig' and everything was pig or pork dishes. I told the guys that if they didn't like the food, just be polite and I would take them anywhere they wanted to go for dinner afterwards. We got there and there was a line down the block and around the corner. I texted my niece just to let her know we had showed up and would look for her when we got inside. She came out, found us and led us right in to a table. :) A waitress came by in a minute and gave us menus and it was all WEIRD stuff I could not figure out. Neither could the other guys. We looked at each other trying to figure out how to proceed. Fried pigs ear was about the only thing I remember on the menu that I could understand. My niece came back by and snatched up all the menus saying "you don't need those. I'll send you some stuff over to try." OK, we were a bit relieved, but then realized we would have to eat, or at least 'try' this 'stuff'. Platters started showing up. We had no idea what it was, but we tried it all and it was GOOD! More platters came, we ate those too, no idea what it was but again it was good. I recognized the pig's ear when they came and they were great! Platters kept coming and we kept eating, There were a few things that didn't appeal to all 3 of us, but for the most part, really good stuff and I have no idea what I ate. I was getting concerned about the bill a little bit. I only had the menu for a couple of minutes, but had time to get some average prices in my head and I counted the platters and figured I was I was either going to have a lot of 'splaining to do to my boss or kick in 1 or 200 bucks toward this meal. No matter, it's family, right? This was a big job move for my niece and I was proud of her.
So eventually the waitress drops off the check and before my eyes can focus on it my niece snatches it out of my fingers and looks it over and says "this isn't right, I'll be right back". Sure enough, she comes back with a new check and the total in 80 bucks. Well I know that's not right, but I am not going to argue. So I paid the bill and left a big cash tip, at least I think it was big.
We walked out of the restaurant and I turned to my guys and thanked them for coming and along and reminded them I made a promise and was willing to keep it if they wanted to go get something else to eat. They looked at each other, then looked at me and we all knew we had eaten so much we could barely move. They were satisfied. ;D :D We decided to walk the 30 blocks back to our hotel instead of taking a cab, we needed the walk. To this day, none of us have any idea what we ate, except for those pigs ears. :) I also don't think they rounded up the tab.
When I was working in Zurich for JDSU 3 of us decided to ask the hotel manager we were staying in for the best steakhouse around and had him call a cab to take us there. Well it was a couple hills over high up a mountain with a wonderful view. We were dropped off at the door and went in. Well it was very nice but no one in the place spoke any English and we did not know how to speak German. What a time trying to order from a German menu with no pictures. We wound up just pointing to menu items to order and the only easy part was ordering beer. Well about 1/2 hour later they started bringing out dinner. First thing brought out were 3 about 1 ft square x 5 inch thick rocks that must have been 500 degrees f. They were followed by 3 beautiful giant raw steaks along with some cooked veggies. The waitress saw we were puzzled and showed us how to slice off chunks of the steaks and sear them on the hot rocks. Well they were the best steaks ever and everyone in the place got a kick out of watching us develop techniques to cook them. We gave the waitress a giant tip just using the company credit card and then tried to get someone to call a cab that never happened. So here we are in suits and dress shoes walking 10 miles down a hill back towards the lights in Zurich on dark back roads at midnight. I got the worst blisters on my feet but we finally made it back to the rail station and took a train back to the hotel. I will say that was the best steak I ever had and after that we had the hotel manager write a note in German asking to call a cab and take us back to the hotel address should it happen again. Turned out we left the waitress a out $100 tip ;D
@Old Greenhorn (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=42103) ,back in the late 90s early 2000s I also went to the International Machine Tool Show in Chicago every other year. The Govt per diem for meals was about 40-50 dollars a day and that was for 3 meals, couldn't really do it without dipping into your own wallet. I went to a fancy steak house with a salesman that I had puchased a half million dollar machine from and he wanted to pay my bill but as a Govt employee I could lose my job if discovered. If my failing memory is correct that meal was about $85. and I paid my own although I told him he could leave the tip since he kept insisting on paying my bill.
Most of the places I worked in my life has those per diem requirements and were all cheap. In the early 80's I worked as an application engineer and part of the job was setting up and doing the tool shows around the country. The outfit I worked for I think had an $8.00 limit on breakfast and something like $40.00 for the day. It wasn't too terrible in a city like Charlotte, but in LA I could barely get through lunch on that. Every trip cost me between $100 and $250 out of pocket as the average trip length was 5 days. I also worked 16 hour days traveling, setting up, and working the shows with a lot of missed meals because there was only me covering the booth. When we did Boston, I was up and out of the motel at 8am on the last day of the show. Worked the show all day, until 5pm, then packed up the booth and machines, loaded the truck, and drive back to LI, arriving at 2am. I had to be back in the shop at 7am the next morning to unload the truck, set the machines up and do a demo for a potential client that the boss had set up during the show. No overtime or extra pay for any of it.
Fast forward to 2006 or so and I landed the job I always wanted with a good boss, decent insurance, fair pay and a company credit card for travel. It was a whole different world. Understand and follow the expense account rules and you never have a problem. Violate the rules and you can find another job. I worked hard for that outfit too but was treated much better, until my boss passed away and my new boss was a tool that ruined my last years in that workforce. But that's another story.
Doing the Chicago show was some of the hardest and most demanding work I did and it was exhausting. The folks back at the shop thought it was all parties, until I would bring one or two along each trip and they couldn't keep up with the actual work. Getting a good meal at the end of a long day was important.
It probably still would not cover your cost difference but I believe that the meal cost/reimbursement for travelling for work is suppose to cover the difference between eating at home/packing a lunch and dining at a restaurant when away from home anything above this would be considered income (edit) ("taxable benefit" would be more accurate) and is suppose to be claimed and taxed as so. The same would be true for private use of a company vehicle like a car salesman taking home a dealer car for private use when not at work.
This is for Canada and the rules change and have some if/and/and buts to consider as well.