I admit, I don't get out much, but I stopped in at the local saw/tractor dealer yesterday to grab a few items. When I got to the counter and looked at my pile, I told the parts manager that I had to add a gallon of bar and chain oil to my pile. I went to grab the Husky stuff and he told me that they had a price jump and the Stihl was now cheaper. I don't care which of those oils I purchase had great luck with both. When I got home and looked at my receipt, it was $23.50 for the Stihl oil! I was paying $15 a gallon for the Husqvarna oil last month, any ideas why it went up so much so fast? Or did my dealer just have a big pile of it at the old price, and now I've got sticker shock?
I checked prices online at a few local stores afterwards and my guys weren't that far off. What brands, prices, and quantity's are you guys purchasing? Have you seen the fast increase too?
We buy the least expensive oils we can find. Never touch the expensive Stihl stuff but an actual expert, @ehp (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1195) does in fact use them so that probably tells you everything you need to know about us.
Ed is in fact rolling in coins. SO much that he makes fun of poor hardworking scrambling deckhands like @bargemonkey. So much that he buys top top shelf chain oils.
I bought 2 pallets pre- insanity, it's double what it was. With her discount the countyline stuff is 12.75, Husqvarna is 16.00.
I bought 12 gallons of Mystic last winter and see it has almost doubled in price.
My area I'm seeing 25ish for husky and county line is around 20. I'll use waste oil before I pay that. Fortunately bought about 10 cases from a local oil distributor for $10/gal. I'm set for awhile
I usually buy echo oil at Home Depot. It has gone up. It is now $19 and change a gallon but if you buy 4 or more you get bulk pricing of $15 and change. It used to be $12
I just bought an ms400. I have the oiler turned all the way up. You use 2 tanks of gas to one oil.where most others I have are close to 1:1 It does seem to use more gas then some saws I have used but does seem better on oil. Could be not working right but I don't see any negative effects yet.
Worst part is bar and chain is basically line flush with a tackifier added in.
Black Max online at Walmart 13.97 a gal.
I bought a case last fall but don't remember what it was a gallon.
Super Tec 15.97 gallon
Polan pro 19.97 can't be much different than husky same company
Central Virginia
Tractor Supply County Line $15 gal
Lowes Husqvarna X-Guard Bar and Chain Oil $25 gal
Ace Hardware Stihl Woodcutter $25 gal
Local Co-op VP Small Engine $21 gal
Local Co-op Do it Best $22 gal
VP Racing tractor fluid is $59.99 for a 5 gallon bucket at TSC. Works fine as bar oil. My firewood machine oils the bar from the hydraulic system and it's what I run in it.
Bar-chainoil 952030130 parts | Sears PartsDirect (https://www.searspartsdirect.com/product/38thsyuxpy-0071-358/id-952030130)
On backorder from what I hear. YMMV dealing with this company. I don't even know what Sears is anymore. I usually use canola, but I just bought 2G of some other bio oil at $20/G from HomeDepot. My intention is to run canola in my primary saws, but use the bio for longer term storage. Canola is <$7/G at aldi.
No way I'd pay $20/gallon for bar oil. Like Corley, my Dyna firewood processor uses hydraulic oil out of the machines hydraulic system. The last hydraulic oil I bought was around $55 for 5 gallons.
When I ran forwarder, I would collect as much of the hydraulic oil as I could when changing hoses and stuff. I made sure to keep it clean, and I would use that for bar oil. I worked great, I don't think I bought any bar oil at all for about 3 years😁 You guys can buy all the ultra-premium bar oil you want😊
I bought 30 gallons at rural king for 9$ gallon. It was a couple dollars cheaper a few months ago.
Need a rural king close to me.
I just checked and it's $9 a gallon.
Petroleum prices are up, no two ways about it. I sure feel the pinch when I need groceries and fuel, I just wish my pension would adjust accordingly. :-\
Looks like a pail of hydraulic fluid next time I'm near a TSC. I use 80% of my bar and chain in the processor.
sawguy21, our price for gas went up $.04 a gallon for the first time in weeks, and diesel is down, so I was surprised by the big jump on the bar oil.
@sawguy21 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1763) It doesn't make sense as the price of oil now is the same as 2007, oil is volatile but if you look at the avg price of WTI (main US oil price) from 2004-now we are only a bit above the average and from 2007 to now we are below the avg price. We have had 5+ year streaks where oil was high, sometimes much higher (2009-2014).
I am with barbender- any lubricant that can keep the chain cool and oiled/clean should work. Southside is exactly right, barchain oil is the dregs- really it should be just a touch above diesel fuel. Maybe all the price increase is just shipping/handling and labor inflation related price increases. It's not the oil folks getting paid more for oil.
This fall we'll be taking Southsides advice on hydraulic oils (try to buy it by pallet in 5 gallon pails) and maybe start looking for bar oil in 5 gallons.
I've stayed out of this because I feel guilty. ;D The last 2 gallons I got well over a year ago I have yet to pay for because I don't know what they cost. I was cutting at my friend Bill's place and ran out, so I went up to the shop and asked him if he had any. He had just bought 2 full pallets, one each summer and winter mix. I took one gallon of each and asked him the cost, he said he would have to look it up and figure out the 'per gallon cost'. Bill and I just keep a balance sheet between us and every 6 to 12 months we settle it up, it goes both ways. Cash is not important to him, but getting my labor/skills is, so he would rather get 'paid' that way. I have asked him no less than 5 times what that oil cost but still don't know. Maybe I'll find out soon, because I need more. I've used his up plus another gallon of new old stock I found on the shelf in my shed and some odd ball half empty jugs. I am not the big user some of you guys are. I don't like laying out bigger bucks, but it is a cost of doing business that should be passed on down the line.
I've never seen any cost savings buying bar oil by the drum, tried it, becomes a Pain. Last 2 pallets I bought I believe where 6.25ish a gal, pre-insanity. I just called yesterday on 2 barrels of hydro trans, barrel of regular hydro, barrel of 15/40 and barrel of coolant for my shop trailer, not sure how bad it's going to be.
Oil isn't moving. The general public is getting hosed. Suppliers over paid for the product they have now, passing it on, the over supply phase is coming on stuff. We have been in a recession for over 6 months, anyone who says things are great needs to take a big look around. I've got friends all over the country, certain areas it's like someone's flipped a switch and the money has stopped flowing, work drying right up. Go look on FB at the guys getting out, another slow mild winter and your going to see alot of these small processor firewood guys starve to death. Ask Ed how things are north of the border. 🤷♂️.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/Screenshot_20230614_065328_Yahoo_Mail.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1686740154)
My test on how the economy is doing is if a trade guys shows up. Had plumbing issues a few weeks ago and it took a couple of calls but they showed up within a day, the electrician is a month later and getting later by the day.
Yup, Rural King, 9 bucks a gallon. Why pay for the much more expensive saw brand stuff? Its all the same stuff with different colors added. But EVERYTHING has gone up in price. Saw chain, bars, saws, wedges, winch main line, chokers, even work gloves. Costs me at least 20 percent more to get a load of logs on the landing than it did two years ago. Only way to make up the difference is logging harder and longer. Logging always been tough. Aint getting no easier any time soon.
Quote from: nativewolf on June 14, 2023, 06:45:48 AMMaybe all the price increase is just shipping/handling and labor inflation related price increases. It's not the oil folks getting paid more for oil.
I think this is correct. Raw material for manufacturers is only a part of the cost to make a product. I'm not a petro expert by any means, but I think refinery capacity and what they are producing impacts the retail price as much as anything else. Inventory that might be overpriced could be a factor as well.
I think the economy depends on the region you live in.
I'm lucky as my part of New Hampshire can be some what sheltered from a big economic slow down.
I have seen lots of sawmill for sale on FB Market place and lots of new lumber sellers . I don't think the new sellers will last, they are still trying for pandemic pricing.
I'm sawing a house package , barn package , other small orders and my pallet / dunage contract.
I just bought 4000$ in oils for a tax payoff last month, on of the most expensive items was a drum of the best Mobil hyd oil for my excavator, at 34$/gal is almost cheaper to make the oil change and use the old oil for bar oil. i use every waste oil (except engine oil) for bar oil. We pay 15$/ gal for bar oil, so i sell my old hyd oil for 10$/gal to my neighbors.
before we payed around 8$ for bar oil, and it's not real bar oil they sell here. it's 40 engine oil, that was for refilling engines when they get low on oil. nobody uses that anymore
☝️ what he just said. Certain areas are insulated, where Tom and I live won't see it, go out western NY, PA, OH, KY, TN, already seeing it.
Look at all these people that bought sawmills, processors, high end splitters during the insanity, over paid and borrowed money to do it, I know some guys who borrowed iron money at 12%+, it's coming. Job market is starting to slow down, alot of these lower level jobs that have been short for so long have just adjusted to it.
Concrete guys are the ones to talk to , they are there first. All the one's around here are slower doing mostly smaller residential projects. Very slow in the new home and commercial department. Commercial being the biggest indicator. Service type trades aren't a good indicator, maintenance always has to happen and never wains off much. If you get a service type contractor to show up immediately it's one of three things. 1 it's an emergency 2 you got lucky or 3 they aren't any good and you probably don't want them anyway
The peddle is still to the floor around here for commercial work. We've seen more demand for warehouse & production space than we have in a long time. Most of our sub's are still plenty busy also, but have more capacity then last year. I've been thinking for the last 2 years the wheels are bound to fall off but, it sure hasn't happened yet around here. Our main metal building supplier is starting to get busy again and pushing out production dates.
We are usually not very well insulated here being in a big tourist area. When money starts to run low people stop traveling, and that hasn't happened yet.
I don't usually pay mush attention to residential, but I do still see houses going up. Even with the high interest rates lumber prices have dropped enough to keep some people interested. Housing prices have eased a little but still haven't dropped much.
I have yet to do it but I have intentions to stop at a few tractor/equipment dealers to see if I could get a few buckets of used hydraulic fluid every so often. I would use the stuff they get from the 50 hour break in service in pretty much anything I own
Quote from: Tom K on June 14, 2023, 02:16:06 PM
The peddle is still to the floor around here for commercial work. We've seen more demand for warehouse & production space than we have in a long time. Most of our sub's are still plenty busy also, but have more capacity then last year. I've been thinking for the last 2 years the wheels are bound to fall off but, it sure hasn't happened yet around here. Our main metal building supplier is starting to get busy again and pushing out production dates.
We are usually not very well insulated here being in a big tourist area. When money starts to run low people stop traveling, and that hasn't happened yet.
I don't usually pay mush attention to residential, but I do still see houses going up. Even with the high interest rates lumber prices have dropped enough to keep some people interested. Housing prices have eased a little but still haven't dropped much.
yeah I am not seeing it but then I didn't see it in Baton Rouge or Nashville either.
What is the tourism related to Tom? Housing here is still scarce ..new subdivisions eating farmland at an alarming rate.
45 minutes north of here the development is INSANE, both sub division residential and commercial. Drive by and it's "Starting at $385,000", but and this is a big but - then you see the sign that says "100% financing" right behind that. Shades of 2007. Things were burning just as hot then too and what was it two weeks to flatten the economy back then? Winter is coming.
Nativewolf -
Recreation & amusement mainly, all require disposable income. Lake Erie & Erie Islands, Summit Raceway, Cedar Point, a couple water parks. Put in Bay can draw huge crowds on the weekends, the raceway can draw 30k people for their big events and Cedar Point can draw 30k daily.
Currently, only a small amount of our work is related to this sector.
Quote from: Southside on June 15, 2023, 08:26:27 AM
45 minutes north of here the development is INSANE, both sub division residential and commercial. Drive by and it's "Starting at $385,000", but and this is a big but - then you see the sign that says "100% financing" right behind that. Shades of 2007. Things were burning just as hot then too and what was it two weeks to flatten the economy back then? Winter is coming.
That's cheap for around here. (Southeastern mass).sub division up the street, little under 2 acre bare lot $459,000. Packages over 1,000,000. 1200 sqft ranch built in the 70's $549,000. Been years since I have seen any new construction house go for under 800,000
Those were triple level town houses, or condos, or whatever you call it when one building has three different colors of vinyl siding on them stacked one after another after another, Stepford Style. I have no idea how folks are affording any of this. Folks must make serious coin up your way.
Quote from: Tom K on June 15, 2023, 09:25:47 AM
Nativewolf -
Recreation & amusement mainly, all require disposable income. Lake Erie & Erie Islands, Summit Raceway, Cedar Point, a couple water parks. Put in Bay can draw huge crowds on the weekends, the raceway can draw 30k people for their big events and Cedar Point can draw 30k daily.
Currently, only a small amount of our work is related to this sector.
Gotcha so closer to the lake than I was thinking.
Quote from: Southside on June 15, 2023, 02:31:02 PM
Those were triple level town houses, or condos, or whatever you call it when one building has three different colors of vinyl siding on them stacked one after another after another, Stepford Style. I have no idea how folks are affording any of this. Folks must make serious coin up your way.
My best friend in Houston has seen housing just explode around them, inside city redevelopment so pretty humble homes getting demolished, lots split and homes with almost no yard (100sqft) going for $750-800. Block after block. That's Houston oil and chemicals money I guess and all the high powered white collar jobs that go with it.
Friend of mine owns a recreation business. Says tours down 15% from a year ago. Local disposable income seems to be down. Easy to get seated in restaurants. Southern Indiana
Quote from: barbender on June 13, 2023, 07:23:28 PM
No way I'd pay $20/gallon for bar oil. Like Corley, my Dyna firewood processor uses hydraulic oil out of the machines hydraulic system. The last hydraulic oil I bought was around $55 for 5 gallons.
When I ran forwarder, I would collect as much of the hydraulic oil as I could when changing hoses and stuff. I made sure to keep it clean, and I would use that for bar oil. I worked great, I don't think I bought any bar oil at all for about 3 years😁 You guys can buy all the ultra-premium bar oil you want😊
I tried running clean hydraulic oil in my saws. The bars and chains seemed to run a lot hotter and stretch and wear quicker. I came to the conclusion that at the prices they charge for bars and chains it isn't worth skimping on proper chain oil. That's my take on it anyways.
When I was hand cutting full time I'd run 2-4 chains a week and one tip on average per week. Bars I grind and reuse. Many many many times. I think I still have every bar I've ever bought unless it bent. 2-4 chains is from sharpening them 6-10 times a day. So you're buying them no matter what oil you use. A tip use to be about 10-20 bucks depending on brand. Even if that's doubled let's say $40. A good gallon of bar oil is what? $15 now a days. I'd use two gallons a day. That's $150 a week just in oil. I'll buy extra tips before I sped that in oil. When I can use cheap or free oil and save the $150. Even with the harvester. Chains are $67, bars are $380. Tips are $84. I've bought 7 bars in two years. I'm still running them all. A chain will last a month or more depending on abuse a tip is about the same. Again using two gallons a day. The math don't add up to buy high dollar oil. A home owner will most like never even smoke a tip anyways. Good oil is definitely worth it in the right situation but not on a saw chain. IMO
I could see the tackifier possibly having some benefit on long bars. Tackifier is the only thing I see setting a bar oil apart. If the benefit was there for me, I'd spend the extra money but I just don't see it🤷
You can't believe anything anyways. Which one is better? They all say they're the best. I'd like to switch to a hydraulic oil I knew would be better but I want to see the specs on them all. Astm is supposed to tell you. Well most oils aren't even listed. Unfortunately today it's all lies and gimmicks and only your own time and experience will tell you the truth. Ultimately only thing that matters is what works for each person in their own scenario.
Quote from: Firewoodjoe on August 19, 2023, 04:55:04 PM
today it's all lies and gimmicks and only your own time and experience will tell you the truth.
I find that is the truth with almost anything I buy.
Yep! I just discovered that on my Fiskars scissors, what is suppose to be a rubber on the inside of the grips, is actually some kind of gum. You can take a finger nail and puncture it and scrape it off. I was noticing some type of gummy stuff on my work table. It was that mess of Chinese fakery. :D
And yes I have stopped buying saw brand oils a couple years back. The saws don't perform any less. The mix oil is sometimes made locally at the Irving refinery, the next jug you get 6 months from now might say USA on it. :D It's sold by Canadian Tire. One thing we have to contend with up here is carbon tax and tax on refineries to reduce their carbon footprint. The government of NB slapped us with another 8% tax, where other provinces only charged 4%. The closer you are to the refinery the more you pay instead of the other way around. :D The consumer always pays the bills. Name me one thing they don't compensate the manufacturer for, it's always passed on. :D
The cost of bar oil didn't go up - the value of your money went down, mostly.
I'm running $5.99 bar oil from many years ago. Currently the same oil is $17.99 on sale.
It's time to move $ into physical assets, this will not get better.
The local BMR hardware store has 'medium' weight bar oil on sale at $10.97 CDN per US gallon. Regular price is $12.48.
I just picked up some farm store brand, 2 gallon jug for $15.99.
Running has it for 14 something, 2 gal. I'm seeing prices all over. Starting to see places overstocked and sales.
got a gallon of TSC brand oil at there store the other day for $13.99, Husky stuff was $20.99
Big difference here in hardware store pricing. One carries their own store brand, the other is some USA brand (it's in 3.8 L jugs or 946 ml bottles). One is $10 bucks cheaper for $4 litres of 2 cycle when you do the math. One store charges $16 for them bottles of 2 cycle, the other $6.20. One store is $6 cheaper on the summer chain oil in the gallon jug. I only buy the summer stuff because I don't cut in the freezing cold. It's odd buying in USA units as in them bottles (1 quart=946 litres), 20 l jug of gas takes 400 ml of oil, so after two fills, you have this odd fraction of oil, instead of 200 ml left. It's even decimal fractions when mixing gallons with ounces of oil. You end up with a fraction of an ounce, too complicated to keep track of. :D
Picked up a couple jugs at our local Farm & Fleet yesterday for $7.99 a gallon jug. Two gal jugs were priced at $14. Thankfully, I had enough on hand pre-covid that I was able to stay on the sidelines during the price gouging.
Probably should pick up a couple cases before the next manufactured crisis hits.
I bought a case of 4 gal the other day for 11$ a gal. Brand is April? Canadian I believe. There's a store called Dad's4x
locally carries it.
I bought 2 pallets of Extreme all season bar oil a month or 2 ago. Before the skid price break it came out to $10/gallon. Last bar oil I got was from my local saw shop and Echo brand. He's now around $$12/gallon and I think this extreme oil is better from what I've seen so far. It says all season but it's too thick for winter for sure. Seems like really good oil. I tried a few gallon before I bought the 2 skids. Comes in 5 quart jugs
Bought a brand new Homelite XL12 at the Ace Hardware in Boyne City Michigan in 1976. Was cutting maple/beech/Red Elm firewood to heat our mobile home and addition. (Lots of cold air leaks). Used that saw for 14 seasons till I moved to Wyoming. Lost most of my hearing due to the highly efficient "muffler". Used nothing but used motor oil for its entire life for bar oil. It still has the original bar (roller bearing nose). I lubed it religiously.
Ran across that saw a month ago in the bowels of my garage. New gas, a few pulls she popped off and ran. Cut a couple of short blocks off. Could use a sharpen..
Les that is a great story. Long shot but by any chance was it a Fisher "Honey Bear" stove, approved for use in mobile homes at the time???
We started with a Jotul combi fire number 4, a cast iron vertical pear shaped outfit with a door that opened down the front. Ended up with a 1/4" plate copy of the smaller Fisher single door. I built it with a sealed firebox and a chamber in the rear that fed two 2"x4" square tubing blower tubes with a squirrel cage fan blowing heated air out the front. Wife and kids fought for a spot in front of that stove.
Very nice, the wife and dogs fight for a place in front of the Honey Bear in a mobile home+addition so you got me going
Buy now it's going up again
Ukraine hit a Russian port much farther away than their capabilities before.
Some country has helped them and it might be Turkey .
This means they can hit Russian ships . A Russian tanker was hit while empty the other day. No one will insure shipping in a zone like that. The cost of oil is going to rise right before winter.
$19.95 for Stihl bar and chain oil an hour ago at my Stihl dealer. Shipment came in today. No thanks to our Gov't
For that price I would start filtering old engine oil through a dirty sock and using that. I ain't paying 20 bucks a gallon for bar oil...ever.
Fleet Farm currently has Mystic bar and chain oil for $7.99 gallon. I snagged 3 cases before it was gone. :)
Dang Chet you runnin' a Processor? :D
It does not go bad. I think I think have about 30 gallons on hand.
I had about 60 gallons many years ago.
walmart had poulin and a very good price on it. Every time we would go by a walmart I would go in and see if they had a case. Then TSC use to have good sales on it, another case I would buy.
Nope. But I don't hafta worry about high cost bar oil for awhile. :D
True, but I want to do what I can to support my Stihl dealer who is struggling to keep his shop open. He gets very poor support from the Stihl corporation, and his orders are delayed (bac ordered for months), and Stihl has now branched out to supply the tractor dealers, hardware stores, box stores, etc. which means stocking all of them with merchandise.
When a buyer has a problem, they know those non-Stihl dealers don't have an experienced tech who can diagnose the problem and fix it and get a product back running again quickly. My dealer, had his shop for 45 years now, can quickly fix the problem or at least diagnose the problem.
Well known for his experience, the new Stihl products are purchased at a Deere shop, Ace hardware, a Farm and Fleet store, and a box store, but brought to my Stihl dealer when there is a problem. As he says, he feels he can't charge enough for his service in good conscience. He's a nice guy, and I hope to help him stick around.
Now the bank kicked his interest up 2½% to 9%, he says, and I wouldn't be surprised if he up and retires. I'd guess he is now 75 yrs old. Maybe his problem is he likes Stihl and his customers that he has earned and serviced over his 45 years, just too much.
Wish him well. But for a couple bucks, I'll buy his Stihl bar oil.
I ordered and bought his first Stihl LogRite cant hook, when after Jeff's 2005 pig roast LogRite announced their agreement with Stihl.
Have not bought bar oil in years. I recycle hyd. oil and used gear oil, settled and strained. Wish I could buy the tackifier to make my own bar oil.
I've found some stuff online to add tack or just thicken but the price don't add up.