Well , have not heard squat from WM since order and estimated 70 weeks delivery. It appears production has not got any better over the last 2 years and is blamed on every supply chain source you can think of while stacking up a lot of deposit $$ ( free operating capital ). I am beginning to wonder if WM is continuing to take orders with no intention of in increasing production. The supply issue/blame is starting to get old, as every manufacturer blames someone for lack of production. Reminds me of a statement l heard made by a GM official several months ago on Fox News that stated they could increase production but will not so as to minimize inventory overhead cost and discounting, therefore causing higher pricing due to demand out striping production. Does anyone have any insight if things at WM will ever get better? Sorry for the rant.
Well, try hiring employees for starters, people don't want to work. Had someone stop by last night asking if I would make a floor for her new house. She started with "I know you are working 90+ hours a week, but...." her husband is one of those man children fishing, loafing around, "taking care of his health", that are the core of the issue all employers are facing.
I know I am just as tired of it as the consumer is. Things won't improve until folks get hungry, and then it will be an uphill battle from there.
There is also the situation where "customers" ordered 3+ sawmills with the intention of immediately selling and raking in a "huge" profit. This was driven by the high lumber prices and the thought/mindset that everyone sawing & selling lumber was getting rich. I am seeing some of these sawmills hitting the market at a highly marked up selling price.
Legitimate sawyers/buyers then had to take their number and stand in line. I see the reason for frustration but not for blaming the manufacturers.
I see someone selling a new 70, of course the price is 120k. I see another brand new 70 at auction in the next couple weeks.
Some some are buying to sell.
As long as WM is meeting there expected delivery dates I don't see any reason why they need to increase production. They gave you a estimated delivery date of 70 weeks, your less then have way there right now at 28 weeks.
Along the same lines as Southside said, manufacturing capacity can't always just be dialed up easily. If they are out of building area an addition could take 1-2 years to get up and fully operational (if they could staff it.)
If I were in WM shoes I wouldn't be very quick to spend a lot of money to ramp up production either as a boom and bust cycle is never fun. Spend a lot of money to increase production and the demand drops and your left holding the bag.
I just saw a brand new LT40 Wide for sale. His stated cost: $47,000. Selling price: $55,000.
If Woodmizer were the only company having these issues, there would be room for concern.
I really don't think they are making up excuses. The problems they are having are still affecting many industries.
There are lots of woodmizers, used sawmill operations, showing up on auctions now- industrial woodmizers. I suspect retail won't be far behind.
Were I in woodmizers shoes there is no way I'd ramp factory space/employees. At some point not everyone needs a sawmill.
Still 1.6 jobs postings for every jobless.
I was promised 14 months for my LT70 Electric Mill package. It arrived at 19 months... Spent several days working to get bed functions to work with WM on the phone . With no luck they had a WM Rep come, with all kinds of spare parts. After spending 6 hours working on it ,He found out they installed the Hydraulic Pump upside down... .WM still swears all Mills are tested before they leave the factory LOL
I'm about 13 months into an LT40 super order. Any time I've emailed my rep I've gotten a response within 4 hours about the current timeline. It seems they're on target right now and I should be expecting a mill late fall (ordered may '22).
I think we'll be seeing a glut of used mills in about 5-8 years time. Hard to say exactly but I'm guessing lots of folks will realize milling their own lumber is a bit more involved and usually more $$ than just the gateway drug know at "LT". "I made $500 of bad 2x6's for $70,000!" Maybe I'll be one of those people...
As someone who used to take deposits for a year waitlist, it's legitimate. There's usually a fair bit of labor that goes into getting a custom order like that ready and the back and fourth can take time. I get it though; right now I feel like companies are capitalizing on this situation. Not necessarily WM but a lot of sectors have increased their prices 30% on the same model. My tractor cost $59,000 2.5 years ago — the same model is now 77,000 this year in identical trim. I've been offered 50k for it used but passed; it would cost too much to eventually replace!!
I just got my brightstar auction book yesterday. There's a brand new super70 wide being auctioned off on July 14th. Pictures show the mill being delivered at Indy
And yet another brand new mill for sale, this time a 40 in North Carolina advertised on FB
Very soon they won't be bringing new money anymore. I will feel a large amount of satisfaction watching those that ordered new mills on speculation thinking they would sell them for a profit, lose money on them.
So will I. They screwed up the market for legitimate buyers.
And for the little guy 1 man band operations who NEED a hydraulic mill to grow their business, and struggle because of the current market situation. ::) ::) ::)
I have a feeling some barely used mills will come on the market, when the owners will have piled up a lifetime supply of lumber they cut in a short amount of time. Also some who bought them and didn't realize how much physical work is involved in turning trees into lumber.
I hope that John Q. Public is savvy enough to let those new "fb sawmills" rot in place.
If I were in Woodmizer's shoes, I would be very hesitant to spend capitol to increase production, because I'd expect that at some point the boom will be over and the demand will not only drop off to pracademic levels, but at that point there would be a glut of used and new mills on the secondary market (a lot of them that they produced), so their demand at that point will be less than pre-pandemic levels. So it does not make sense to do that kind of expansion. IF you could even find more qualified workers, you'd have to invest in training them in their job, the way they do things, their systems, and then they'd end up laying them off when the demand falls off. NOpe. They will be in enough trouble/struggle when the demand falls off, and they are forced to lay off long time employees, and they still have to keep paying on any capitol improvements they'd done, and pay the extra taxes on any expansion/investment.... It's not going to be easy.
Think about all the sawmills, RVs, boats, SXS, convertibles, tractors, motorcycles, kayaks, table saws...that are sitting under sheds unused purchased during the pandemic.
Just browsing Craigs List in the RV section for giggles some of those are showing up - massive 5th wheels and toy haulers, a year or two old, in the $100K range that folks have decided "should go to a better home".....
Yes I've seen those too😂
No. The supply issue is not made up. I have two truckloads of product from a manufacturer in my warehouse waiting for one part to complete production.
Been there five months. Nobody wants to spend money to have material sit in a warehouse. The stocking of material from the start of the pandemic is all gone. At least I don't have to wait a year for a new forklift now.
David
I'm starting to test the waters for selling my Lt40 and at first I put a price on it that I thought would make me a little profit, but then I realized the amount of inventory I have of spare parts and blades that will be included in the sale and raised it another 5k. When I decide to sell, I may not get my asking price, but I'm not going to be giving anything away either. My new mill is almost 4 months late and counting...
I should have held on to my LT35 until the 50 arrived. Hind sight :( and I did ignore that same advice from some very experienced and wise members here.
The selling price I got for the 35 was more than I paid for it, all parts, maintenance and repairs over 4 years. It was not hard to take the cash. But I've been without a miill for 74 weeks and counting.
I was wondering if you might question your decision to sell early, but I'm sure everything will work out just fine in the end. I keep watching for yours to show up, mine should be right behind it....
Quote from: SawyerTed on July 10, 2023, 08:15:55 PM
I should have held on to my LT35 until the 50 arrived. Hind sight :( and I did ignore that same advice from some very experienced and wise members here.
The selling price I got for the 35 was more than I paid for it, all parts, maintenance and repairs over 4 years. It was not hard to take the cash. But I've been without a miill for 74 weeks and counting.
Ted,
How long have you been waiting now? Have the delirium tremens set in yet?
I placed the order for the new mill in January 2022. Carolina Saw and Service, WoodmizerASC/Dealer just called a little while ago. My saw is the next one on their list. That's not nationwide, just their list. So mine should come soon.
It's getting close now, maybe a month if I behave myself! :D
In some ways the delay has been positive. I did a major primary bath and bedroom renovation and several other much needed jobs around home. Plus after November 2021 knee surgery, it has had time to heal completely.
I'm still getting calls from customers holding off on cutting trees until I'm ready to run!
BTW, anyone with an order should be able to call Woodmizer HQ or their dealer for updates. They just don't update customers until the scheduling of manufacturing of the specific mill. I received a call in May. "Do you still want the mill? Is there anything you want/need to change before the manufacturing starts?"
I've called every 2 months since January'23 to get updates.
Looks like 80 weeks is par for 50s and 70s ordered in fall 2021-Spring 2022.
Well the new LT70 on Brightstar loaded w/17hrs went for $110k, so I guess it pays to play the market. There are 3 used 70s and a big Cooks next week. The older mills did so so.
For the last 9 months I've been ordering tools and supplies for a major project (think billions in funding) and can yell you it's much worse than you think.
The shutdown caused major issues that we are a long way from overcoming.
Tool manufacturers can't get parts to make tools you need to make the stuff you are trying to make, they cancel a design they can't make, develooe a new one and try to make it which results in back orders. Lead times extend.
You can't count on getting bolts and nuts, ppe, etc and have to spend time researching new alternatives, meanwhile thise new sources get hammered and lead times extend. It's horrible folks.
Never again!
Heck, throw in free money and people who don't want to work and good luck with that deadline.
I should add that I do empathize with yours and others plight but the problem isn't companies like WM.
It's smack dab in the middle of big government everywhere.
Never again is about to happen. Got an email from a supplier warning me about the potential UPS strike and how it will impact product delivery.
Thats different in that at least there are alternatives but when the entire economy shuts down and you lay people to stay home you get a mess that will take at least a generation to overcome
Don't forget that one state that is independent of the power grid had a polar freeze that shut down a major segment of the petrochemical industry.
That unplanned shutdown due the power outages and sub freezing temperatures also trickled down through the supply chain.
Called for an update today and was told that I should get a production call in the next month or two.
Quote from: tacks Y on July 06, 2023, 07:45:56 AM
I see someone selling a new 70, of course the price is 120k. I see another brand new 70 at auction in the next couple weeks.
Some some are buying to sell.
I think I saw the same auction. Was pretty frustrating to see the auction images taken at the woodmizer facility in indiana. Been waiting on mine Since May of 2022. I've seen at least 6 auctions this year with images taken at a woodmizer facility. If people are intending on reselling these things why fill their orders?
Quote from: Crossroads on July 18, 2023, 12:40:12 AM
Called for an update today and was told that I should get a production call in the next month or two.
I was told the same thing back in February. Called again last week and was told they don't have a date but it should be in a month or two.
I don't get it. Unknown lead times and supply chain issues haven't worked in my industry since 2021. Poor production planning and a weak supply chain seems to be common in the construction world
My dad use to say that "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".
Maybe your not squeaking enough.....
Do we really want Woodmizer to start determining who needs their mill the worst, and shuffling their production schedule to suit? I detest the speculators that are screwing up the supply of mills as much as anyone. But if they put down their deposit and pay in full upon receipt, I don't see what Woodmizer is supposed to do about it.
It's not woodmizer, but it makes me happy. Got a call today from Magnum Trucking, they will be delivering my Woodland Mills HM130max on thursday afternoon. Ordered it on the 18th of July.
I would love to get a WoodMizer, but where I live it just doesn't make sense to spend that much on a mill. Maybe after Gamestop goes to the moon and I get to retire young I'll move to a state that doesn't have a telephone pole listed as it's state tree and then i'll get a WoodMizer.
Quotea state that doesn't have a telephone pole listed as it's state tree
I laughed when I read that. ;D
I worked around the oil fields back in '14, and the only trees I seen were ones that had been planted in a row around the farmhouses as windbreaks.
Quote from: barbender on August 01, 2023, 12:44:25 PM
Do we really want Woodmizer to start determining who needs their mill the worst, and shuffling their production schedule to suit? I detest the speculators that are screwing up the supply of mills as much as anyone. But if they put down their deposit and pay in full upon receipt, I don't see what Woodmizer is supposed to do about it.
I don't know, I am new here and don't know much about the issues Woodmizer seems to be facing. I'm a manufacturer, I don't understand how you can not have a known lead time or estimated production estimate.
I saw similar distribution problems start in 2021 that carried into 2022 with equipment manufacturers like Cat and John Deere. They changed their distribution method and limited the amount of equipment each dealer could sell and/or lease until they were able to increase production. They started canceling orders for dealers that violated the lease agreement.
Exactly!, Someone there has a plan and knows what's being built when.
As far as being a squeaky wheel. I'm not saying to be rude and a royal pain, but to ask reasonable questions like what parts are you waiting for? When do you think they will arrive?
When I worked in industrial distribution, I know my customers would not accept open ended responses. Especially when we were already past what we quoted as the lead time.
As far as who gets their mill with the materials they have on hand. I wouldnt assume that the squeaky wheels arent getting some kind of consideration. It's only human nature to try to keep your best customers/dealers happy.
Called both the dealer and Indy this afternoon.
I received no firm information. People on the phones just said "I don't have anything firm to tell you."
Any chance you all who know how to fix this could just go ahead and get it done for the rest of us? I have some milk processing equipment I really need. It's just some stainless steel, a couple of heaters, pumps, and chart recorders so I am sure it can be whipped up over the weekend. Be sure to have all the 3A certificates in place and other regulatory requirements for me. Really appreciate it.
If it were an easy fix it would be done.
Lots of factors involved. My last post was
mostly informational, but there's some frustration developing.
Being told August when I called in June with some authority then being told now "nothing firm" is frustrating.
78 weeks and counting
Quote from: MoHardWood on August 01, 2023, 02:48:51 PM................ I'm a manufacturer, I don't understand how you can not have a known lead time or estimated production estimate....................
I worked in manufacturing my entire career before retiring in June of 2020. Just enough time to see some of the supply chain issues coming out of the COVID debacle. Even without a pandemic I have seen several such issues because we live in a global economy these days and 'stuff' comes from all over.
An example, the last company I worked for made, as one of their products hydraulic rigs that would run networks of tools for manufacturing facilities making trains, planes, heavy trucks, and large trailers. At our plant we made all these rigs and tools, but we vended out a lot of sub-builds and focused on final assembly testing, development, packing and shipping, and the high precision machining on our tools. So for this rig, which sold for about $30k, we would job out the control boxes to a local electrical wiring and assembly shop who specialized in that sort of thing made to our design with parts we spec'ed out. Pumps were bought from a known world class builder of those, motors from another well know manufacturer of those, and we built up all the units to our design and tested them all before crating and shipping.
So all is going good and our people are building rigs right along and then all of a sudden we aren't getting our control boxes on time. A call tells us they are having trouble getting spools of the wire we required and have long lead times. They have 50 boxes waiting for wire (about 2 months of planned builds for us). We give them a little time, then call again and ask for more details. They say their distributer can't get the wire, so we start calling our own deeper networks of contacts stateside and abroad. Turns out nobody can get that wire, it is made by one company in Italy. They can't make wire because they are having a hard time getting the Teflon they need for the durable jacket, which is why we spec'ed that wire in the first place. So do we wait, or do we ditch our design and get cheaper wire? The cheaper wire will give us problems for years with early failures and customer complaints, which is why we use the best wire we can get for the job. So we wait, and complain and look for other sources or EQUAL substitutes. It all takes time. And this whole scenario happened before COVID was even a word we all knew. Do you think the folks who answered customer calls about delays knew that the wire folks in Italy couldn't get Teflon? No, probably not. After COVID, things got really nuts with foundries and casting houses shutting down all operations under their state's emergency declarations, which nearly shut us down for a while and we had to shift focus to other products we could make to get customers up and running. It did get ugly and some of that residue remains yet.
So yeah, I get it. WM would like nothing more than to simply have the problem of not being able to build machines fast enough. Instead they are probably in 'choke and puke mode' where they look at the parts they can get or have in stock and figure out which machines they can build and ship. In the meantime, they have a load of 80% assembled machines taking up expensive floor and work space while they wait for engine builders to get some silly part they are waiting on to build and ship complete engines. There is nothing more frustrating for a manufacturer than that, they are not in a happy place, that is for certain.
I feel for you Ted, it can't be easy on you and I know you are chomping at the bit now just cursing lost work hours. I would be too. But having been in their shoes, or shoes just like them, I am betting they are doing what they can with what they've got. To get things moving, they would have to make some extraordinary changes that might affect their quality, like taking in and using substitute parts. I don't think anybody wants to see that, or get engines they didn't order. Then you would really have a nightmare and their rep would be shot.
Tom, you are spot on! I do understand the situation having taken decades to get to this point. In my adult life I've seen globalization go from bad to good to bad again.
On top of that, pandemic, low interest rates and polar freeze in the Deep South have contributed to this.
What's worse is I created some of my frustration.
Customer focus has also given way to supplier focus by necessity.
Quote from: Southside on August 01, 2023, 05:09:00 PM
Any chance you all who know how to fix this could just go ahead and get it done for the rest of us? I have some milk processing equipment I really need. It's just some stainless steel, a couple of heaters, pumps, and chart recorders so I am sure it can be whipped up over the weekend. Be sure to have all the 3A certificates in place and other regulatory requirements for me. Really appreciate it.
SS, you are funny. :D :D Perfect sarcasm, that, and very pointed. Well done. ;D
Actually, when I was working, these types of things were what I did better than anyone. One of those major crisis problems that stumped just about everyone and had all the suits having back to back meetings wringing their hands and throwing them up in the air, exhausting all their stupid 'solutions' and then call me in as a last resort figuring I could be the guy they blamed it all on when it was done. I would jump into it like a man at war, drive wherever, get on planes, fly wherever, talk to the people on the ground doing the work, finding the real issues rather than what made it's way through a series of 'managers' and then examine the minute details, look for options, pare those down into something do-able, and offer solutions and work arounds. It was always very intense and very high stress and I loved it as long as it was short periods of a year or less. Usually solutions turned out not to be as drastic as everyone expected and problems were often complicated by inaccurate communications by non-technical folks which persisted until abated. I was good at it because I loved it and I never gave up. Accomplishing something everybody before me failed at was always the biggest rush.
Yeah, maybe I could help these guys a little, but not a lot. They have had plenty of time to figure it out, and if they have not, I assume there is a good reason for that. I have confidence in WM to do their best as they know it. Your processing equipment guy, well, not so much. :D
I think manufacturers are all benefitting, experiencing record margins and have zero incentive to make less money by producing more. Blame the pandemic and cash the checks.
Well here's a story from the flip side of this. My BIL works for an ice fishing "castle" manufacturer, they are basically campers with all the bells and whistles that are pulled out on the frozen lakes in winter, to fish out of. Well during Covid, sales that were already hot went through the roof. They opened 2 additional plants to keep up with demand. Well now they had to close those plants and lay a bunch of people off as the demand dropped like a rock. They may have put themselves in a situation that they don't survive as a company because they tried to match the boom.
I read that RV sales are down about 50%. No way that half the world could be paid to not work with borrowed money and expect no impact. The shipping container shortage is now a surplus and container freight rates are down 75%.
Long ago I was a section shift supervisor at a 24/7/365 multi-service government installation. In order to give everyone a chance to be off either Christmas or New Years upper management decided we would split the normal 3 fixed shifts and one rotating shift into 2 shifts of 12 hours on/12 hours off for the 2 week holiday period. That led to "holiday attitude" of its "Christmas" and focusing on playing cards unless something mission critical interrupted. Productivity and morale never recovered after the two weeks of being lax.
That was just two weeks of not being pushed.
Compare that two weeks of not pushing for production to all the pandemic-era pablum and it's easy to see where we are and how we got here.
No such thing as a free lunch and until a number of people who have become accustomed to receiving lunch(and that includes the employed) start missing a few meals will reality sink in.
The mill "shortage" is long overdue to implode. Fueled by speculation, people paid to stay home, $10 2x4s, and inflation. I am curious how the finance end of this works? You order a $50k mill two years ago when the fed rate was .5% and now its 5.5% there has to a big jump in monthly payment to cover the interest? Just like a bank run or stock market crash it's a long term heady ride up to the new reality until the inevitable correction that is always abrupt.
As soon as the next new mill auction fails to pay off the balance due, the dominoes will start falling fast. The speculation mills and two year waiting lists will be undercut by finance company repos and order cancellations.
If they still offer the 30-day money back guarantee a speculator really has no risk.
There's also the 30 day window to accept the mill once it is in stock.
Quote from: Southside on July 06, 2023, 07:19:58 AM
Well, try hiring employees for starters, people don't want to work. Had someone stop by last night asking if I would make a floor for her new house. She started with "I know you are working 90+ hours a week, but...." her husband is one of those man children fishing, loafing around, "taking care of his health", that are the core of the issue all employers are facing.
I know I am just as tired of it as the consumer is. Things won't improve until folks get hungry, and then it will be an uphill battle from there.
Until folks get hungry, yes. Old saying you might like: when the' belly gets close to the back bone'
I have to say, for the average dude like me who actually wants a good mill, and plans to pay for it mostly in cash, the situation makes me a little nervous. Nervous in the sense of plunking down 50 grand for a car and as soon as I pick it up it's only worth 35. The fact that these mills cost almost double what they did 8 years ago also makes the prospect of "sawing your own lumber" and "cutting out the wood mill" kind of insane from a cost benefit or time perspective.
Thankfully I was certified insane by the government several years ago so I'll continue to wait.
It's been a while since I checked, so I just went on C/L and found about 5 or 6 WM's for sale, a couple were brand new spec machines (an LT35 with 0.8 hours on the meter and an LX55 brand new but assembled with 'upgrades' that the seller was asking $2500 more than the WM brand new price.) Also a few older machines with pricing based on the age and use and not going for more than new price, mostly under by about 10-20%.
In short, seems like the prices are all over the map and buyers will have to be educated and good negotiators to wind up with a fair deal. I think these speculators will be sitting on their machines for a while, as they should, given the profits they are looking to gain. But, these machines ARE showing up now, so there is that.
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on August 02, 2023, 09:22:10 PM
It's been a while since I checked, so I just went on C/L and found about 5 or 6 WM's for sale, a couple were brand new spec machines (an LT35 with 0.8 hours on the meter and an LX55 brand new but assembled with 'upgrades' that the seller was asking $2500 more than the WM brand new price.) Also a few older machines with pricing based on the age and use and not going for more than new price, mostly under by about 10-20%.
In short, seems like the prices are all over the map and buyers will have to be educated and good negotiators to wind up with a fair deal. I think these speculators will be sitting on their machines for a while, as they should, given the profits they are looking to gain. But, these machines ARE showing up now, so there is that.
I am also seeing an uptick in newer WM models coming on to CL. "Used 10 hours", "Going a different direction", "comes with blades!", "still on pallet", as well as some brand new WM Kilns "Still on pallet" "avoid the 2.5 year wait"!
Most of the mills are priced at new price or around there. I'm seeing some of the older ones now priced under new price, which for a time was not the case. There's a few more on the trader sites as well, but a lot of 3-10 year old models priced above the new price.
The problem with expanding production to cater for peak demand is that after the peak, the expenses related to the expansion are still there, but not the hoped for income. You build a new factory hoping that it will be productive for at least the next 10 years, so you can pay of the investment. If you think it's only a one or 2 year peak?
It's a bit like airlines at holiday time. Why don't they put on more planes? Because they don't have any spare (or crew for them). Because it costs millions, and then next month they have expensive planes sitting idle.
I got THE CALL!
There is a LT50 sawmill with my name on it at Carolinas Saw and Service, the Woodmizer ASC in NC.
I have an appointment to receive training and pick it up Wednesday!
And HUGE sigh of relief was heard throughout the Kingdom! 8) 8)
Congrats!
(But it doe make one wonder why they had no idea the last time you had called?)
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on August 03, 2023, 10:04:21 AM
(But it does make one wonder why they had no idea the last time you had called?)
It's a good question and my inclinations would be pure speculation.
Congrats. I'm sure next Wednesday can't come soon enough. It's going to be a long week.
Congratulations!!! 8)
Congrats Ted! Looking forward to hearing about and seeing pics of the new setup. Remember, no pictures it didn't happen ;).
smiley_clapping about time. 8) 8)
That's good news.
Congrats!
Are they doing the training using your mill? Good to do a final QC check with the dealer before taking it home. smiley_thumbsup
Yes the training is on my machine.
I learned when we did training on the LT35 that putting the machine through its paces is important. The hydraulic valve body had a casting crack so it was leaking fluid. We found it as we were hitching up.
I took a buddy with me to the training and we sawed a log. We likely didn't put a half hour on the LT35.
Woodmizer overnighted the replacement valve body and the ASC replaced it and delivered the mill to me 2 days later.
Congrats Ted! Every time I saw a response from you I kept thinking, man: poor guy still doesn't have his LT50... Good for you!
Congrats Ted, I hear the fish are really starting to hit down your way now too. Oh well, you have a sawmill again! ;D
In July, 2021, I had my 1998 LT40SH, sold for $55K. We each agreed to think it over during the 4th weekend. They were ready but I backed out. I would have been trading two years of sawing for one year of $$.
Sometime the grass ain't greener.
Quote from: SawyerTed on August 03, 2023, 09:49:20 AMI got THE CALL! There is a LT50 sawmill with my name on it at Carolinas Saw and Service, the Woodmizer ASC in NC.
How much are you asking for it? Don't forget to acknowledge the FF agreement.:D So much for your life of leisure. Congratulations on the much awaited addition.
:D It. Is. Not. For. Sale! :D
I believe I'll manage the leisure part! :D
Good news! I'm happy for you Ted.
Ted, claiming it's not for sale is an awfully sly way to advertise a sawmill for sale. We do have a spot on the FF for selling items you know. :D
Ted sounds indecisive and is playing the market and jacking the selling price. :D
:D :D There's not a better group of "characters" anywhere! Y'all make me laugh out loud! :D :D
Ben Franklins ARE calling my name, not for the sawmill but for hours and hours of satisfying lumber production!
How so?? You have forgotten everything that you did not know anyway. ::)
For a certain fee, I can make a road trip and very s l o w l y introduce you to the sawing elements. You may remember what logs are but that stuff that the blade pulls out while passing through ain't sand....it's sawdust. Your wife normally finds it in your pockets.
I started a "U-Fun-Me" account but so far I have zero contributors, so your new sawing operation is starting out on a very loose leg.
Ted's next post will be a fabricated press release from WoodMizer saying they are stopping sawmill production next week. Nothing like trying to manipulate the market. ;D
Yep. He's jinxed for sure now.
QuoteI started a "U-Fun-Me" account but so far I have zero contributors,
Well that's no fun at all..
Oh there are PLENTY of contributors both here on FF, across the country and an inordinate number locally.
I'm pretty thick skinned, I have two daughters who take after their mother. They keep a guy humble! :D :D They make fun of the old guy unmercifully :D :D
All this time I've been complaining about the sawmill speculators, and here we may have been getting worked by a master the whole time!
Now I see a fork in the road for Ted- sawmill speculator, or Spandex Sawyer!🤦🤦😂
Are those the only 2 choices? You might have to break out the eye bleach! :D
Big Sawmill and their high dollar lawyers will never admit it but SawyerTed has controlled the entire supply since 2020. You can't get a mill without going through him and now I heard he is getting out of the game and taking an LT50 to the private island he bought with the profits!
So, I posted a joke about your sawmill posting for sale and got a reprimand email from the FF about it. Apparently they think I'm advertising.
I suppose that it would depend upon how your post was worded and interpreted?? People do occasionally try to sneak in thinly veiled items for sale so the FF Admins have to continually watch.
Quote from: csobel on August 04, 2023, 07:58:43 PM
So, I posted a joke about your sawmill posting for sale and got a reprimand email from the FF about it. Apparently they think I'm advertising.
So, I cant read every single post, and I cant keep up with every conversation and if you are going to make a post that intentionally pretends to be an ad for a joke, and other people that cant read every conversation but care about our rules and sees this faux ad and reports it to moderator, then yea, it gets removed and you get reprimanded.
Further explanation required?
I've gotten "guidance" regarding posts that have crossed the line before. :) A couple of Mia Culpas and good behavior going forward is all that's needed.
FWIW, I saw the joke. It was a joke for sure HOWEVER Jeff has a long history of being fair and firm.
Without the the benefit of reading the several previous posts, someone just arriving to the thread could have viewed it as an advertisement.
I appreciate Jeff's and the other administrators efforts to maintain FF's standards. Those standards keep the Forum the kind of place we enjoy.
All I can say is that to be disparaged in private messages by the mods and made fun of for having combat related brain injuries is pretty over the top. Not everyone here is able to process information normally but to infer that the person is "wah wah wah" and not even give them the dignity of a response is pretty lame.
This forum is made up of real people who interact and care for each other. You came here seeking advice, and ignored some really good suggestions from some folks who make a lot of money doing this stuff daily.
I went behind the scenes and read your post, without being part of the conversation anyone would see it as an ad, it could have been worded better to show your intentions.
Chris, I too have gone back and read all of your posts and replies since you joined the Forestry Forum. All of the responding members and admins have been very forthcoming and helpful to you.
There is nothing wrong with making a simple mistake, but it should be noted that the Forestry Forum remains strong and stable because it adheres to strict rules. Rules that apply to everyone equally.
Note: There are many Vets and Disabled Vets here that may look unkindly to anyone pulling their "sympathy card".
Seems you made a mistake in public, pointed out in private to admins by members who know we can't see it all and we need help to maintain the atmosphere we are known and appreciated for., It was quietly removed and the forum system was used to send a reason and warning. You brought it to the forefront by making a post and you were informed there, exactly the circumstances for which this occured. Ads are not permitted. Real, fake, joke or any kind. PERIOD.
2 new mills showed up for sale in my area
Brand new lt70 102 hrs
Lt 35 304 hrs
It's on now
fb is full of them. Either bought on speculation or the buyer found out that sawing is actually work. Either way they fouled up the normal supply flow.
The funny thing about the lt35 is they are selling a LLC name with the mill :D for an add price
Not necessarily uncommon. My $55K offer was for my sawmill and my website. Considering that it should have been 2½ times my average income, it would have been a huge mistake which is why I backed out.
I had seriously not quoted correctly.
Quote from: Dewey on July 06, 2023, 02:30:00 PM
I was promised 14 months for my LT70 Electric Mill package. It arrived at 19 months... Spent several days working to get bed functions to work with WM on the phone . With no luck they had a WM Rep come, with all kinds of spare parts. After spending 6 hours working on it ,He found out they installed the Hydraulic Pump upside down... .WM still swears all Mills are tested before they leave the factory LOL
Next problem .... The cable that runs the length of the mill for the mill electronics was installed on the wrong side of a mounting plate... wore through an electric elbow and chaffed through the cable.
pith poor quality control IMOP
Brought her home today.
We had a great morning with the crew at Carolinas Sawmill and Service, Woodmizer ASC here.
Worth the wait! The 50 is a beast! Had a good afternoon learning the machine here in the back yard. Twenty months off makes a man rusty no matter how much he practices in his sleep . ::) Had a couple of booboos like pushing the 10° blade (the mill came with it) too hard in a knot and bogging the diesel down. :o
Sawed two cherry short logs and made my first $100 with this machine this afternoon. Only 659 more $100 to go. :D
Otherwise 100% worth being patient!
LT 50 with short cherry. First log I cut on it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48503/IMG_1733.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1691617802)
Congrats on the new mill! She's looking good and already putting out $100 bills! Do the 50's run the same guides as your older mill and the 40? Rain tomorrow morning so cover her up tonight. Best.
This one has roller guides and the high performance guides (jury is out on them). They appear to be larger in diameter than the 35. Don't know about how they compare to the 40 or 70. This mill runs 1 1/2 bands.
So the $100 x 650 is your asking price? :D
After running the 50 today, a buyer would have to offer a premium, greater than new price to get me to pause before I say, "No way!" 8)
Nice mill but throw some mud or dirt on it! It looks too shiny, like you just waxed it.....You didn't just wax it, did you?
I'm glad you finally got it. I like sawing with the 1.5" bands much better than the 1.25". We went from an lt-28 to the 50. It took me about 40 hours and some good advice (thank you YH) to get to the point where I did not regret us selling the lt28, but I like it a lot and we have become a lot more profitable using it.
For what it's worth, the silver tip, 1.5, .055 bands cut pine, hickory and oak well for us. I look forward to seeing lots of posts of you making lumber with it.
Congratulations! Looks great 👍
What is coming out of the hydraulic box heading towards the hitch?
@Southside (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24297) thats the bundle of hoses and wiring for the command control station. I seem to have cut the CC station out of the photo.
Looking good Ted. That one looks to be setup pretty much like ours. I wonder, since you always did the walk along, how are you adjusting to being so far away from the log? I know that under the shed I have trouble seeing the end of the log sometimes and would not put one up as you did with that short cherry because it so far away. It's hard to see and it also a long run to get the hydraulics working again for turning.
It's a very nice mill and I have no complaints, I don't think you will either. :D I have never come close to stalling out the engine, so you are a leg up on me already.
Muscle memory is a thing! When I put the head in forward, I tend to want to take a step to follow it! ::)
One thing I'm finding is an adjustment is remembering which way up and down are. For some reason I keep canceling my auto down and pattern modes.
Sawed some scrappy cedar today so getting a good flow going with the controls wasn't happening.
Oh yeah, I took the control box in the chest for a few days at first too.
I think a lot of us get that. :D Back in my younger days when I ran a lot of big CNC equipment, some for many years, things were pretty automatic and I only had to 'think' what I wanted to do and my hands would do it. Then I started setting up new equipment more regularly and it seemed every one was designed to be opposite of the one I ran before and I had a few 'oops' along the way. Finally I was always on a machine I had run very little because I only ran machines to fix problems or test programs and I learned to think about every move before I made it and look at my hands and which control I was on. It was slower, of course, but the 'ooops' dollars were much lower. These days I am constantly 'changing gears' on equipment and not running hardly any particular piece for hours and hours at a time to get used to it. The exception is the toolcat, but even with that we change the attachments often enough that I never get good at anything. I just take my time and don't let anyone rush me. Slower with no mistakes is always faster than making mistakes and having to fix them. I'll find new mistakes, and you might too. :D
Yes, I can sure imagine you putting your chest into that console for a while but in the long run, you will breathe and wear a lot less sawdust. ;D
How long after the confirmation call did it take to get the mill? I'm starting to get impatient, it's been 18 months and I haven't gotten the confirmation call. Did you save a piece of the cherry, since it was your first money log?
The confirmation call came in May.
Turns out the mill I received was from the guy ahead of me on the list. They tried unsuccessfully for a couple of months to contact him. He never returned any calls.
So I'm not sure what getting the call in May and delivery in August means.
I saved a nice piece of cherry.
Dang, that sounds like I'm 3 months out, at least. Glad you saved a piece.
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on August 10, 2023, 04:20:28 PM
I think a lot of us get that. :D Back in my younger days when I ran a lot of big CNC equipment, some for many years, things were pretty automatic and I only had to 'think' what I wanted to do and my hands would do it. Then I started setting up new equipment more regularly and it seemed every one was designed to be opposite of the one I ran before and I had a few 'oops' along the way. Finally I was always on a machine I had run very little because I only ran machines to fix problems or test programs and I learned to think about every move before I made it and look at my hands and which control I was on. It was slower, of course, but the 'ooops' dollars were much lower. These days I am constantly 'changing gears' on equipment and not running hardly any particular piece for hours and hours at a time to get used to it. The exception is the toolcat, but even with that we change the attachments often enough that I never get good at anything. I just take my time and don't let anyone rush me. Slower with no mistakes is always faster than making mistakes and having to fix them. I'll find new mistakes, and you might too. :D
Yes, I can sure imagine you putting your chest into that console for a while but in the long run, you will breathe and wear a lot less sawdust. ;D
Lol@ "ooops dollars 🤣🤣🤣
Got a call Friday and my build date is coming up and my mill should be in Portland by the 3rd week of October.
If I had a new one, I'd put this stuff on it. Just as a test, I put it on one side of the mower deck of the lawnmower I bought a couple of years ago. I have a pressure washer set up so all I have to do is push the button on it to use, so I always blast the loose stuff off of it before I put it back in the shop.
I wish I had done the whole thing. That one side of the deck, including the part right behind where the front wheel throws everything on it, cleans off the easiest, and still looks like it's almost new.
I think this is the stuff, but the bottle I used was a different color-purplish.
https://www.amazon.com/SHINE-ARMOR-Graphene-Highly-Concentrated-Protection/dp/B08YS5T1T1/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=J0NDF8FWFMDY&keywords=shine+armor&qid=1691977906&s=automotive&sprefix=shine+armor%2Cautomotive%2C118&sr=1-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1
Put in a call to Woodmizer this morning. My LT35HD goes into production on Sept 6, and is estimated to arrive with Ross in ME on Sept 18.
Now, how do I get rid of my full-time job?
Do like me, have your wife become your sugah momma😁
I'm a "kept" man as well! 8) It has its advantages :o :D
Quote from: DanMc on August 23, 2023, 12:55:33 PMNow, how do I get rid of my full-time job?
A simple two word note to the boss always worked for me:
I RezineI ResineI re-signI QUIT!
:D
----------------------
As for being a kept man, I felt like that for about 5 years when I started my machine shop. We had no kids and the wife had a good full time job with health, etc. Funny thing was, she was leaving at 6:30 am each day and getting home around 5:30 (she had to take the subway and train into the city), while I would start working at 6:30am and quit at 11pm each night (taking 30 minute meal breaks). I would start dinner cooking an she would finish it off and do the dishes while I went back to work. I worked 6.5 days a week, she worked 5. But She was the breadwinner. (much of my money went back into the business for machines and tools.)
Then WE got pregnant and I made the hard decision to take a full time job back in a machine shop (union rate) just to get the health benefits. Took me another 40 years before I was back working for myself.
One thing I learned as a 'truth' is that not matter who you work for, the boss can always be an ashhole on any given day and that includes when you work for yourself even more so. I worked part of every holiday and/or family celebration there was to keep customers happy and make deadlines I promised. I think when I went back to working for/with others I learned to be a bit more understanding about the pressures the boss was under. But I digress..... being a kept man ain't all so bad, you just have to find a nice apron that doesn't make your butt look big. :D :) (That took me a while.)
Well, it's easy. Fire up the mill, make some sawdust for awhile, use the extra money to buy support equipment, then when you make more money sawmilling than your full time job, you will just stop going. Or your wife will tell you to stop. Or you will pull a Johnny Paycheck.
The old saying is true "Don't quit your day job." It just depends which job that is, your old one or your new one. You can do both for awhile, but it's hard to do neither when the bills come due.
I get to eat more of what I like since I'm cooking most evenings! 8)
I'm trying but the last job she applied to had over 200 people apply and it is super niche stuff. Nobody wants to work anymore!!!
I have 3 years 'till "full retirement age" for Social Stupidity. So I have some time to figure it out. Maybe the mill will be supplemental income to fill the gap. We will see.
Well ain't this just great, WM announced a battery operated LT 15 wide loaded for $26,000 + with a spring delivery in 2024 if pre ordered now which is a little over 6 months. So they have resources to develop a new product. Yeh Yeh, I know just a little upgrade to the LT 15 (ha ha) so it only takes 70 weeks (1 year and 5 months to deliver a $50,000 + LT 40/50 (to some of us guys) that has long been in production with minor changes over the years. Yea, I hear all the excuses given for WM for lack of production capability. :D
After 22 months of waiting for the LT50, I have cancelled my order. I seem to have missed the used market and wasn't able to sell my 40 for what I wanted with a boatload of spare parts and blades and my mobile sawing season basically over for 4-5 months. After much internal debate, it just didn't make sense sped to money on a new mill. So, your wait just got bumped up by 1
Sorry to hear that but I think you may have dodged a bullet! If the portable sawing market is slowing down right now it may be a bit before we see it crank back up so, with luck, you'll keep at it with the 40 and be in a better spot later...
Meanwhile, your new business venture of sharpening and setting all my bands might take off ;) :P 8) :o
Sounds like there is room in the area for a grinder lol