Long story here.
I received a call last week from a lumber import export company in Montreal.
They were contracted to ship 2 containers from Canada to France 3 months ago.
The containers contain 2 Chalets that a person disassembled and put into the 2 container. They then discovered that they 2 40' containers of wood need to be sterilized before the can be shipped to France. Heat treated.
No one in Quebec will take on the project.
They eventually found me and called. I said I would look into doing it.
My Kiln will easily heat treat . I do it to all my loads as the temp goes to 160 for the final few days as it boils the last of the water out.
I can buy a data log and prob to insert into the core of the wood and show it reached 133F for 60 mins. My kiln records all temperatures during the drying process and can be downloaded. I have contacted a verification company that will come and certify my equipment for the heat treating. I am waiting to hear a price from them .
The problem is the shipper wants it done yesterday.
I have told him it will be 6-8 months at least for me to dry all the wood. I figure it is 20 loads per container in my kiln , and add 5 more loads if it all won't fit so a total of 50 loads at 5 days to heat the wood to 133F is 250 days. I also need to keep my customers happy drying their wood in between.
Can I use a heat or DH kiln to heat treat wood and get it certified?
I am not against buying another kiln that will dry longer Timbers and lumber as I get requests all the time .I have room in the back of my yard for an outdoor kiln.
Looking for ideas and thoughts.
Regards
Steve
Well call me Doc redneck, but can you add monitors to document the temp and add heaters or halogen lights, maybe cover with insulating blankets and run till the bell goes off in the containers? sounds like it may pay well, and halogen lights or heaters would be potentially in the budget, if you have the electric juice to power it. Just a heat treat cycle. If it is outdoor wood, should be at the EMC they want for exterior wood already.
I am not against a red neck idea. I am not against the heat the whole container idea as it sits. You would have to at least empty part of the container to get the probe into the center.
I think the center of some thicker boards, not necessarily the center of the container. some fans to circulate, and blankets to hold in the heat.
Here I would talk to TPI, the area third party accredited auditing agency and ask what they like to see.
I think every grading agency is running a heat treat auditing program as well.
Been there, done that, and got a call from a customs agent in Malta at 2:00 AM asking for my phytosanitary paperwork. Lets just say a very deep education followed and I learned a lot about exporting to the EU. You will absolutely need probes in the center of the container, and red-neck engineering won't cut it.
You need heat, air movement, time and temperature logging. None of it is difficult. I would do it, and the price would cover a new hot box and a hefty profit because there is a dude in France waiting for his two Chalets and nobody else will do it, he will pay.
Get the money up front.. cause I smell a rat in the woodpile. Thinking you could get hung out to dry, with a lot of investment and a lot of hope that you will get paid in the end.. depending on the whole deal working out on their end.
Don't want to see you get the short end of the stick based on a lot of promises and expectations.
Not saying don't look into it, but have it locked down tight so you come out on the winning end. Good luck.
Quote from: Southside on July 12, 2023, 10:18:29 PMeen there, done that, and got a call from a customs agent in Malta at 2:00 AM asking for my phytosanitary paperwork. Lets just say a very deep education followed and I learned a lot about exporting to the EU. You will absolutely need probes in the center of the container, and red-neck engineering won't cut it.
That will be the most important part. It's one thing to do the kiln job, but the more important is to get the job certified.
This is the local Govt page with advice about exporting into the EU
Forest Products Export Standards - Phytosanitary Requirements of European Union | NZ Government (https://www.mpi.govt.nz/export/export-requirements/icpr-importing-countries-phytosanitary-requirements/forestry-products-importing-countries-phytosanitary-requirements/european-union/)
There are various methods of complying, but this is the one that applies here.
"
This declares that the product has undergone an appropriate heat treatment to achieve a minimum temperature of 56 °C for a minimum duration of 30 continuous minutes throughout the entire profile of the wood,"Those are the requirements the EU set, so they will be the same whether the wood is coming from the US or NZ. You will have to work out how to get those certifications locally, complete them, slap some "HT" stamps on them, and then seal the container and ship it out.
With the other outfits turning down the work this tells me there is something funky about this deal. I'm not saying don't do it but make sure you cover your backside. If at anytime you get one of those "feelings" then walk away. It's a chance to make enough to improve what your business offers and I doubt if this will be the last load the export company needs done.
The wood would have to be unloaded from the containers stickered for airflow to get the heat through it all faster, then repacked. I would tell them that the repacking and reloading would be up to them to ensure no damages in transport. We have a heat treater that is built on a 40' shipping container but could not be used as a kiln afterward. I thick a purpose built kiln would be better using gas or hot water for heating.
There are two options.
Find out what and how long it takes to get a certification that will cover you, as well as the time to get facilitated. Then add that to the price. Feed that back to the potential customer. Then get paid for it....then and only then begin the process.
I have a friend who does the same thing...except he doesn't own a kiln, he simply knows certified kiln operations locally to him and uses them to HT and certify. Sometimes the deal works out, maybe 20% of the time. He has had all manner of scams, but sometimes it is legit.
I have been reaching out to different contacts in the wood industry around me to find someone that does the certification. for me to put another kiln would end up being a larger project than I really want as I will have to move my operation to a bigger facility. Right now my operation is the perfect size for what I do. Once I add another kiln and new location then I will need full-time staff, advertising, to draw in more business to feed it all.
Cathy is a great GM that understands about payments , a former business banker, she has her eye on the money part of this and payments up front.
I thought I was would be able to lease another kiln from a guy up the road but he ended up selling it.
I am in talks with a certification company that will certify my operation to HT.
Member Kansas (RIP) heat treated for the export market. He had a sizeable operation and I visited frequently. He told me about doing it, but I forgot most of what he told me. I just did a forum search with the term "heat treating" and member "Kansas". It came back with 9 threads you can read that may add something. I did not read them.
From a timing standpoint, I'd find a conventional kiln operator in the 35 - 50M BD ft size range and hire them to do the heat treating in a single load, either than 20+ trips through your kiln.
You can broker the deal and still make $.