Have mostly hardwoods of poor quality timber ( birch, beech, ash, maple) but get the occasional decent 16-24 inch sawlog. I'd like to mill some for rustic out buildings/sheds to work under and store equipment. I've seen demos and talked with wood mizer dealers at shows. They recommend the LT 15 for my purposes and discourage me from going lower end as I would unhappy with results. Wood Mizer makes great mills. I'd love to get one but can't justify the expense for the occasional use it would get,
Would appreciate input on anyone using chain saw mills ( e.g, Granberg). Going to get a 70 Cc Husq to add to my lineup for bucking anyway and according to Granverg site, this would be sufficient to work with one of their smaller mils.
Thoughts, suggestions, critiques appreciated. Thanks gang.
It is hard to compare a chainsaw mill to a bandsaw mill. If you are planning on making a few boards or slabs, a chainsaw mill will work. But, if you are wanting to make lumber, I would recommend a bandsaw mill. I started off with a chainsaw mill but quickly realized it was a lot of work that did not yield the amount of lumber I was wanting to make. I quickly upgraded to a entry level bandsaw mill and have never regretted the purchase price.
I've held on to one long enough to have built a building or two but we use it for individual parts where it shines. Its cheap enough that it is a fine tool to have and it'll make enough wood in a day to keep a furniture or cabinet guy working. Building goes through a big pile of lumber in a hurry, for those kinds of occasional high use projects call in a portable and send his payments down the road with him at the end of your high need.
+1 on hiring a portable band mill if you don't want to purchase one.
I started with a CSM. The production was disappointing.
Chainsawmilling.....my mother taught not to say anything if you don't have something nice to say.
I can do it, if I have to.
I'm sure I have wasted more money on more foolish things than my first sawmill. It was a toy for me, but I like sawing better than golf, and sometimes I make other people smile with it. Yes you can hire it done cheaper but making sawdust is fun . :)
Got a text earlier this summer from a friend who had been using a CSM on hardwood for a while when he needed lumber, said he sawed up some SYP for the first time and will "never" go back to sawing hardwood now. He is a very hard worker, so unless you love the smell of 2 cycle in the morning, hiring a bandsaw to do the heavy lifting would be a wise move.
One thing l have not seen mentioned re CSMs is the inevitable hand/nerve damage that days of hanging on to them can cause. I replaced many post and beams in old farm buildings. If l did it all again l would buy one of the cheap china units and baby it till l could afford a better mill .. or ... hire some one.
Well, all the prior advice here seems spot on to me. I would classify your use as 'project oriented' as opposed to 'occasional' and that would indicate finding a portable sawyer, having your logs prepped and a work area ready for him/her, then possibly building a relationship over time with your projects.
However, it could just as easily lean toward buying a low end mill such as an LX-25 or 55, or woodland mills. They are a bit of work to use, but nothing like the life sapping CSM setups. You can throw yourself into them for a period to get out the project wood you need, then wrap them up well until the next project. These would cost a bunch less than an LT15. Read the current thread on a Hud-Son 330 in progress now.
Having a small manual mill in your bag of tricks can be very empowering. About 5 or 6 years ago I was taking a break in my shop drinking coffee and staring up at some wasted air space between the end of my loft and the front wall of the shop where a garage door opened up. I realized I could put a deck just over the garage door about 10" higher than my loft deck and it would give me 12'x12' of storage space that was being wasted while still allowing the garage door to roll up. That was on a Wednesday afternoon. I also had a handful of EWP logs that I was trying to find a use for. So Thursday and part of Friday I milled up the lumber and by Sunday night the loft was built and finished. It 'cost" me 2 blades, a half gallon of gas, and some nails, plus my time. Not a penny of cash was laid out for the project, it was all on hand.
I have to tell you that felt pretty good and that loft gets daily use for lumber and finished goods storage. Having a small mill handy takes some major steps out of the process, not to mention cost and time.
I am with Tom about the empowering features of having a mill but if you are only very occasionally just having a portable miller come by may make more sense.
I was talking as recently as yesterday speculating/wondering why every small farmer here in WV does not own at least a small hobby mill to go cut a couple of logs to make a small outbuilding or fix a wooden fence or such. I have not used a CSM and have always been intrigued by them and can see where there would be a great tool in very remote places but if you can drive a pickup to the site it looks to me like a small band mill would be better or saw the lumber off site and transport it in.
In all honesty the simple economics may not justify a small band mill but the entertainment and satisfaction of sawing overrides a lot of the cost issues. Good luck.
By the time a CSM is outfitted with all the ancillary tools, ladder, oiler, sharpening devices, extra chains and so forth, a person is well on their way to spending what a hobby band mill would cost.
The entry band mill will cost maybe 30 percent more for several times the production.
I went through it the hard way. Chainsaw milling is hard work, dirty work and not a very efficient way to make building lumber. Think hours to break a log down into useable framing lumber.
A chainsaw mill has an important place in producing wood products like live edge slabs and beams as such.
Quote from: SawyerTed on July 31, 2023, 07:12:27 PM
By the time a CSM is outfitted with all the ancillary tools, ladder, oiler, sharpening devices, extra chains and so forth, a person is well on their way to spending what a hobby band mill would cost.
The entry band mill will cost maybe 30 percent more for several times the production.
I went through it the hard way. Chainsaw milling is hard work, dirty work and not a very efficient way to make building lumber. Think hours to break a log down into useable framing lumber.
A chainsaw mill has an important place in producing wood products like live edge slabs and beams as such.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/72879/FE66CF0B-6C2E-4834-A090-0A5890F48A6B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1690845814)
Can avoid the ladder with a 2x8 or 2x10
:o :D :D That's what you got from my post? :D :D
Sure Lumber can be made with a CSM and many have, it's just a labor intensive process.
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It may seem like guys are being negative about CSM's but the advice above is accurate. If you want to fiddle around a bit, go for it but if you want any volume a band mill is what you need or farm it out.
Lots of good advise and info posted here but I will add my .02. A chainsaw mill has it's place probably but it's not making lumber. I started with a Granberg and it didn't take long to realize it's very limited in it's production, to say the least.
Currently have an LX25 and it is also very limited and I'd not recommend it or the LX55. Compared to the Granberg this thing is the 8th wonder of the world.
The bottom has fallen out of the lumber market around here and there will soon be a glut of used entry level manual mills. You would be wise to find one.
I started off with the small granberg CSM with a 70cc saw. A 70cc saw is considered the minimum but by no means is great for a CSM. If your logs are 24" sometimes you'll need a saw that can drive a 30" bar (the mill takes up 5-6" of cutting width), and drive it well. I found it to be an arduous process even with the granberg winch setup, which is a must IMO, or running a rope to a weighted pulley system. I did maybe 5 24" logs with that setup. The resulting wood needed significant planing to get it flat once it had air dried given the cut quality I was getting.
I then moved up to a Sthil 500i and a larger CSM which was a good upgrade but the production was still incredibly slow because at that point I was using a larger mill. I think a 500 or 662 would be the minimum saw I would want to run if I did it again. Doing beams, having to rotate the log and then re-index the rails/ladder/whatever, took so much time. All the fiddling takes hours out of the milling time. I think I lost interest after 2-3MBF, also because at that point I had put down a deposit on a bandsaw mill. I tend to loose interest in things when I sense that they are wasting my time and this was one of them.
Like others said, you need to be really good at sharpening chains--and they need a special grind on them that's different form normal chains. There are a lot of hidden costs in the CSM setup (like anything). Chains are expensive and my oh my do they die when you hit anything that remotely resembles metal. I would throw in another vote for hiring out the process, which will give you some exposure to milling--in and of itself valuable.
No, no, no, and NO !
My icon is me standing by the Logosol chain saw mill that I had.
Like a real dummy, I built my 1200 sq' house entirely with lumber that I milled on that Logosol.
I used a Husky 95cc saw that I opened up the exhaust on.
HAD to use both earplugs and ear muffs.
I later sold the mill and saw and bought a Norwood LM29 bandmill which I used
to build a workshop and a barn.
A world of difference would definitely be an understatement.
Even with a manual bandmill, you will be at least 10 times faster,
not to mention a whole lot less work, much less sawdust, and retain your hearing.
Might as well bite the financial bullet and go with a bandmill.
You will find uses for the lumber later on that you are not thinking of now.
Without exaggeration, I would rather hand-hew a timber frame with my broad axe than cut one out on a chainsaw mill --- they are not the most elegant tool. They work, just make sure that your expectations are in-line with what they can actually do.
If you have to buy a serous chainsaw and all the extra bits, you are probably getting close to a small Mill from Woodland etc. While they have their limitations, you are now dealing with a thin kerf band saw and a nice quiet 4 stroke engine that will run for years.
Now if you had a 90cc saw just laying around, and there way an especially good log in a hard to get place? Yeah I can see the point. Spend the day turning a lost log into 10 X $100 table slabs, yeah that makes sense.
Spend that day making $100 of utility lumber? Nah, get the small band mill and cut $500 of wood, with less work.
I have phone calls every so often from potential customers who want to talk about chainsaw milling. I tell them that they need to spend about $3000 for proper equipment and then they still have to do the work.
I have been puzzled about chainsaw mills and why people would use them. This thread validates what I had been thinking. The Woodland HM126 is a fantastic option - Not much $$ and very capable.
I was thinking like you to get a chainsaw mill and saw up a few boards. I bought a Stihl 660, a CSM from Amazon, a 24 and 34" bar, a couple of chains and a clone Stihl sharpening jig. I set up my first 28" red pine log and let me tell you about the work, the exhaust, the wood chips and the work it took to process that log into 1" slabs.
Later that year, Norwood was having a sale so I bought a LM30 that was $1,000 off, the 4' bed extension was discounted and they gave me a carhartt jacket as part of the transaction.
Just saying...
When you decide on a mill, get the biggest engine they offer! Standard on mine was 7 hp upgrade to 9 hp, but there was a new unlisted 11 hp option. I got the 11 and it goes fairly quick for its size. I think the 7 would crawl!
I also got an extension. I thought might as well while they are shipping the saw any way! If i am careful, i can cut 16 6 which is not bad for a little mill. I think i could put extensions on the ends to let the outside wheels travel maybe 2 ft extra and that would get it to 20. Although i dont have much use for 20s right now!
Also, once you have a mill, you may find more logs become available to you!
If you are serious about sawing a few logs into lumber, a CSM is a useful way to convince you to purchase a real mill. I used to sell Granberg mills, and those who used them over the long term were young men who had lots of friends who liked free beer and Saturday afternoon parties. The lumber produced was mostly an after thought.
I'm starting to see lots of nice used mills on FB Market place .
You should wait and see if you can swing the cost of one.
With your equipment you have and your land it would quickly pay for itself
Quote from: SawyerTed on July 31, 2023, 07:33:12 PM
:o :D :D That's what you got from my post? :D :D
Sure Lumber can be made with a CSM and many have, it's just a labor intensive process.
Lol at that time yes I just read until the ladder part lol
Also I got by with just a scrench tool ..
I see chainsaw mills for sale on FB Marketplace occasionally, they typically look brand new if that tells you anything.
I was telling my partner about this thread at lunch today. He got a good laugh :D.
Quote from: Don P on August 02, 2023, 07:08:59 PM
I was telling my partner about this thread at lunch today. He got a good laugh :D.
you guys think back breaking work is funny lol
There is a professional sawyer in our area that has been doing remote and hard to reach huge trees for people for years, using a CSM. Of course everything is tricked out with a nice saw, etc... but he has a disclaimer on his webpage that if your logs are easy to reach please call so-and-so with a band mill, it will be much faster.
CSM fills a niche for people who do not have the means for a bandsaw mill , or the equipment needed to get the logs to it.
The upfront cost difference between running the two , are not even close. Especially if you want to factor in the equipment needed to get the logs to the mill.
The Jobber J100 fits very nicely between the Alaskan style CSM and a stationary mill , such as Logosol or a Bandsaw mill. As it allows you to mill where the log lays and is much more productive and less labor intensive ,then the Alaskan style.
Different mills , much like different tools , exist because they fill a certain need.
Thanks to all for the candid input. Seems obvious that I should not go down the CSM route after reading all the comments. I met a local sawyer ( Bruno NH ) who was kind enough to let me tour his setup and gave me plenty of pointers. If I have any saw logs I'll be bringing them to him. Perhaps if I come across a used mill, I'd consider it for small hobby stuff. Thanks to all again for the education guys. Best...
Like others I started with a CSM and while I still use one (Granberg Slabber) to quarter big logs) I would NOT choose that path today for what you want to do.
I moved to an LT10 pretty quickly and as Tom and others have said, the LX25 etc will do nicely for you and produce way more and much more efficiently.
Obviously, the CS is the heart of the CSM.
If you already have the right saw with sufficient size & power, CSM is a decent option.
But if you don't have the CS yet....it will cost a decent chunk of change to get the saw with the size and power to make the CSM not-so-much an annoying chore. In this case, you may want to consider the BSM.