Really random question. What martial art might be good to pick up as a practicing forester?
Gosh, I don't know? If I had a disagreement with a forester and they wrapped me up in a Brazilian jiu-jitsu arm triangle it would certainly get my attention😁
Why do do you think you would need such a skill?
Well sawguy, you never know who you could run into out in the woods.
She might be really aggressive and menna would be able to defend himself if he had his black belt in marital arts.
Personally, I've only been married to the same gal for almost five decades and have only made it to my brown and yellow belt.
She belts me and my bruises turn brown or yellow.
I'm with barbender on this - gets my tenshun ever time!
I'm 6'5" and 295 pounds. I still prefer whatever means I can use to prevent any physical hand to hand altercation. If I was on a job where someone was threatening me, or there was a risk of that, one of my pistols would be in my holster on my hip.
If you have a property owner is threatening you to the point you feel like you might have to defend yourself, I'd call law enforcement and have them accompany me while I ran the property line or whatever I needed to do.
I feel like the martial arts do have value in coming out on top in a physical fight, but you are goiing to get kicked, bit, gouged and scratched in the process. You'd have to be a true expert for it to have any value at all, frankly.
Many of us sawyers are old timers and we are more concerned about reaching out and touching someone before they get close enough to worry whether we need a karate chop or a kung fu kick. I'd figure the same is true for a forester.
I maintain that situational awareness to the threat and what you have available to counter the threat is the best defense.
Even better is a friendly attitude but be ready to back it up with a peavy hook or crowbar if that doesn't work. ;)
Years ago we were marking timber on an 18-acre tract. There was a trailer parked near the land line but on the neighbor's property. Door opens, old guy steps out with a shotgun and advised us that we were trespassing and get off. I knew he was not the owner, so we left, parked down the road waiting on a deputy. He came, arrested the dude, and we finished the job. In 55 years in the woods that was the only gun pulled on us, martial arts would have been useless.
But I was usually armed, not that a short barrel would have done much but attract attention. The gun was for snakes, dogs and hogs. Most dangerous critters in the woods.
Unless you know martial arts really well to effectively use the techniques you would be better off knowing some wrestling techniques and moves if things go to the ground
You never know what you might stumble across. A still, a place where stolen cars are taken, someone hiding from the law, etc.
I took Tae Kwon Do for three years. TKD is a defense system, though it does have some attacking postures. Students are taught many defensive moves for avoidance, protection, disarming and immobilizing attackers. They number these defense sequences and there are 15 in the first set. They are brilliant in their sequencing, use of body mechanics and leverage. They are also quite brutal if executed correctly.
They teach you how to kick really hard too. They do not teach killing methods.
I also learned a bit of Tahn Bong Sul(short sticks) which would be pretty handy if I could get ahold of a branch or stick or two.
You never know when you might have to use some martial arts to save your dog from a kangaroo :o
Australian man saves pet dog from being drowned by 2.4m kangaroo | Stuff.co.nz (https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/300990285/australian-man-saves-pet-dog-from-being-drowned-by-24m-kangaroo)
That is however in Australia, where everything is trying to kill you in some way. :D
Wrestling.
I'm still sticking with a handgun. Remember the scene in Indiana Jones where the Native with the big scimitar makes a big show of all of his moves with the sword, and Indy pulls out a revolver and shoots the guy dead as he walks away? Yeah, that😁
I used to think hand to hand combat was great until an opponent punched me back. It lost its luster immediately.
MMA
Quote from: barbender on October 16, 2023, 11:20:12 AMRemember the scene in Indiana Jones where the Native with the big scimitar makes a big show of all of his moves with the sword, and Indy pulls out a revolver and shoots the guy dead
I read or heard from a Harrison Ford interview that there was a big fight scene planned in script, but Harrison was too sick from intestinal flu to do the fight filming, so the scene was shortened.
JJ
If that's the case, it made for a more memorable and humorous scene😊
I thought we were appraising a painting by "Matt Dillon". :) In the wilderness a gun is your friend. snakes and pigs, human or otherwise can be there and you are on your own. My dad talked about fights, and he said to hit them hard in the nose, and 90% of the time, the fight is over. He was Army military police, and he did not advocate fighting, but was raised to never walk away from a fight. In high school he said if you fought someone, when it was over you shook hands, and remained/became friends. He also told me, if you call someone an SOB, you better have a smile on your face, be ready to run, or to fight.
Sig Sauer P365 is my constant companion, and can escalate if needed.
Quote from: menna_forest92 on October 15, 2023, 07:52:05 PM
Really random question. What martial art might be good to pick up as a practicing forester?
Give us some feedback as to why this "random" question comes up.
Random imagination thought, or something come up in a class you are taking? Or trying to fill in a schedule of subjects to fill in graduation credit requirements?
If so, maybe basket weaving would be more useful or a sewing class to mend some torn fabric or holes in your cruiser jacket.
Walk into a big spiders web and you will have all the karate jin-jitsu moves you'll ever need. lol
As someone who spent a lot of time being trained in hand to hand combat and has been in more than a few engagements involving different levels of force I can tell you that not only do you loose complex skills the day you stop practicing them, there is always someone who is faster, younger, bigger, stronger, more skilled, or simply more of them when things go bad. Fine motor skills go out the window fast when you are faced with a serious threat that you do not train for constantly. "God created men, Samuel Colt made them equal" is a good mantra to apply here.
As a single father who raised 3 boys by myself, there was a whole lot of scrapping going on! They all started out with boxing and my oldest went into MMA and then into Tae Kwon Do. My grandson who is 9 has a high Red in Tae Kwon Do and competes in sparring competitions in Georgia, SCC and North Carolina.
I have always been able to hold my own...Then I realized if I let my 9 year old Grandson in the proper range, missed one step, then he has kicked me in the head!
I have saw some very gifted Tae Kwon Do black belts kick an opponent in the head...by kicking over their head and looping back to the unprotected side. Just amazing to watch.
Situational awareness and never let strangers with questionable intent within your response boundary.
Side arm equalizes my age if I do not let them into that range.
It stopped me from being mugged in Asheville once, just by reaching fir it and warning.
sorryjust getting to this. Well 1. I'm not a dude, I'm a chick 2. forests are scenes of scary crimes, you know how many serial killers bury their victims in forests.
Quoteforests are scenes of scary crimes, you know how many serial killers bury their victims in forests.
Don't know, and likely you do not know either
If you're a "chick", all the more reason to have an "equalizer" in 9mm or your preferred caliber.
An average sized girl, even a well trained one, doesn't have much of a chance against a determined average sized male. The best you can do physically, is to not get fancy but a hard kick to the groin or scratch and claw the eyes. But your best bet is to be aware, and never let anyone get their hands on you in the first place
Right down the road. Do yourself a favor Study this website and look for a place in your area like this place and you can get setup with proper protection and take some great training from people that are knowledgeable.
https://88tactical.com/ (https://88tactical.com/)
Quote from: beenthere on November 05, 2023, 10:45:42 PM
Quoteforests are scenes of scary crimes, you know how many serial killers bury their victims in forests.
Don't know, and likely you do not know either
We actually had one here a few years ago. The dude cut up his victim and drove near a hundred miles to dump the remains in the Ottawa National forest.
It's more likely a person needs self defense martial arts "in town" than in the forest. More "scary" attacks, shootings and stabbings happen to people pumping gas, jogging or shopping etc than happen "in the forest."
Most rural crimes are property crimes -theft, breaking and entering and vandalism.
Frankly I'm more afraid of going out to eat in town than spending the night in the forest.
If self defense skills are on your mind, then learn them, practice them and be good with those skills.
The exact same advice goes for a firearm, learn to use it if you carry, practice and maintain your skills.
A lot of people get killed in the local Nat parks, but only one local murder I can remember. Vs hundreds killed by nature. Drown in flooded streams, fall off cliffs, get lost and die of hypothermia etc. And that's without ANY dangerous critters that could kill you.
There are lots of useful survival skills you should probably learn first before going into the wilderness.
The issue with any sort of grappling, striking, or other hand to hand, non-lethal, combat is that you need an exit strategy. Your attacker isn't going to "tap out" and it is physically exhausting to restrain someone for any length of time. Add in a physical size advantage, or drug issue, and I don't care how good your skill set is, you better be able to run fast and long to get away too. A weapon is a force multiplier. I carry one when I leave the farm, and I am not of small stature and as I stated have had more than my share of training and experience, but I still carry a force multiplier. I don't recommend pepper spray unless you take a full experience class with it and learn how to fight through a full face blast of it. Yes, there is a physical reaction to the stuff, but for the most part it's psychological and that's actually a lot harder to overcome. If you choose to carry it you better know that you can fight through it because if you use it, you will become impacted by it.
My advise is to find a firearm that you are comfortable with, and take a real training class or classes with it. Not some macho prove yourself in a group of wanna be's wearing "Crav-Maga" T shirts, pay for a one on one class with a pro. Learn to shoot lying down, on your back, from a vehicle, weak handed, etc. Also learn weapons retention, make sure you learn how to keep your own weapon. Blading your body, blocking the weapon with your arm, knowing your surroundings, etc.
Many times you can de-escalate a situation by being confident, aware, and on top of a situation. Predators look for weakness in their victims, skillfully backing out of a confrontation with confidence can get you distance and time, knowing you have a force multiplier available, should it be necessary, gives you another option if that fails.
I actually have mixed feelings about chiming in here. I agree it is good to have an exit strategy but I am of the camp where if the bad guy is temporarily incapacitated keep pressing till he is no longer a threat. I can try to run but if he gets up he may catch me. If he's down don't let him up. Use any and all tools available as the force multiplier whether it is a stick, a board, a pipe, a rock, a bottle, a hand tool, caustic liquids, etc. Blind him, break bones so he can't walk or fight, crush windpipes, etc.
I wholeheartedly subscribe to the theory "If you're involved in a fair fight, your tactics suck!?" This is not a competition with rules and umpires and such - it is survival. You didn't start it but you can't be afraid to finish it.
I heard this as a true tale where a car jacker tried to pull an elderly lady from her vehicle and she shot him. There was a hearing and the judge/head investigator said they understood and agreed with her shooting him in self defense but asked "When you shot him he was down. Why did you shoot him 5 more times while he was on the ground?" The old lady replied "Because that's all the bullets my gun held."
A friend of mine that did firearms instruction used to tell me, "a man might try to wound you, a woman will aim center mass and kill you!" I think women train to follow the training, and if you trained them to aim at the center of the target and keep pulling the trigger until the gun is empty, that's more than likely what they'll do😊
Be sure you know the law in your state on guns.
A Gock 43x 9mm is a good one to have.
I know the last paragraph of yours is a joke WV, and that needs to be pointed out. In legal terms you can go from justified force to unjustified in the blink of an eye. Rules of engagement are different than civilian rules. Force must be "reasonable" and in many cases "necessary" to stop a threat, dumping a mag won't be considered either if the answer is "I stopped when I ran out of ammo". "I stopped when the threat stopped" is the correct answer.
Several years ago we had a case here where the wife testified that she couldn't help herself and kept pulling the trigger. The problem was that it was a single action pistol.
Joke? Not really.
As a layman none of us could be expected to know how much force is needed to prevent an attacker from getting up and resuming his attack. I am too old to be worried about investigations, court dates or hearings or what other people think. My only thought is survival and I did not start the altercation.
Remember we are assuming this is a one on one attack in an isolated area and "reasonable force" is very subjective and a relative term. The little lady was a senior citizen and less than half the size of her attacker. My upbringing, beliefs and training were different than many others.
I am a really nice guy and will help anyone I can but I will not be abused or threatened. The goal is to destroy your enemies ability and desire to wage war against you. This is no different.
My daughter is required to take basic self defense hand to hand, and hand to weapon training, and she has had to use it. She's pretty good at it, also so also trains above and beyond workplace requirements. However, help is always close at hand where she works (anybody have a guess?) and she uses it as a primary delaying tactic as she doesn't work in a place that's really a good place to permanently harm or kill people.
That's being said, if you consider that many attacks may come from multiple people and multiple directions, and that substantial training is required in any combat endeavor, my daughter does not hesitate to carry (not at work) and professionally train with a pistol. She's quite good at it, and besides the pro training she gets, we practice when she comes over to visit. We are currently working on the Center Axis Relock pistol technique.
Her favorite, if you can call it a favorite, hand to hand technique is Krav Maga, because it focuses on defense against weapons techniques vs bare hand to hand, and her favorite pistol is the Sig 365 SAS. It's also mine too, at least this week.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 06, 2023, 10:13:37 PM"Because that's all the bullets my gun held."
Several years ago a local deputy and his K9 were killed during a traffic stop a block away from the high school that I worked at for 22 years. Many of you may have heard of our county sheriff. The most dangerous place is between him and the T.V. camera but he is a good guy and a one-liner king. The suspect was shot multiple times when he was found a day or so after the initial traffic stop.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna15012086 (https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna15012086) Sheriff Grady Judd answering as to why the suspect was shot 68 times, "that's all the bullets we had".
I get where Southside is coming from, you don't know how a jury is going to come down. You don't want to be making statements that sound callous or indifferent to human life. You want your statements to line up with the fact that you feared for your life, which I hope you in fact did if you shot someone.
The very first statement that you make to law enforcement will be your defense and will follow you until the case is closed. Choose your words carefully.
You felt that your life was threatened and you took the self defense measures to remove that threat.
The Sheriff in that case was talking to the press and had zero concern for criminal liability as he wasn't the shooter. In this day and age the very real threat of even the most clear cut self defense case ending up in front of a grand jury is real. Prosecutors don't want to be the ones to make the call, so they pass it onto the grand jury. Anything you say can and will be used against you.
Not trying to dismiss your concerns WV, but as a guy who has been on all three sides of this coin I am just trying to let folks know how our system works and how it's different from the rules you had overseas.
All three sides would be attacker, attackee and legal system. Right?
Yup