Thinking of sawing some 1/8" thick tulip poplar "sheets" that I want to try to glue onto an lvl beam as a veneer of sorts. They would be 14" wide. Anyone ever try that? Thinking i might need a lot of stickers to keep them flat and then flash drying it in the kiln. It seems like a good idea and I'm going to try it, curious if it has been done with any success?
It's do-able, but check in with
@doc henderson as he has done a LOT of very thin stuff. Best that you cut it oversize and plane it after drying, even better is if you have access to a drum sander to get out any waves and make it flat for gluing. I do a bunch of 1/4" stuff maybe a little thinner to make boxes out out and such. But I always do final thickness after drying, just too many opportunities for the surface to get 'irregular'.
I am going to shot from the hip and say you can't do it. However it is done somehow commercially. I once sawed 5/4 x 20 tulip in the summer and stickered them under a tin roof with plenty of weight. They buckled so bad they where worthless.
Why does it need to be that thin?
I've sawed such just to show folks it can be done but it will almost immediately curl/roll and often will want to split.
How much of it do you need for your project?
If you have to cut it that thin you might want to sandwich it between some similar or wider sized boards. Good luck. Let us know how it works out.
I'm thinking like Howard, maybe go 1/4" or 3/8" and plane once dry?
Can you saw the veneer blanks from dry boards, then plane? There would be fewer issues with drying defects.
If you want if rough sawn then cut to the desired thickness. If you cut 1/4 inch, depending on the species, it may chip out when you try to plane it. this is when you need the rollers down, so the wood is supported by the bed, and not perch between the two bed rollers. it will vibrate up and down, and not be smooth and tend to chip out. I have much sawn at 1/4 and finish it at the drum sander. even the heat of sanding can make it curl a bit, so I alternate sides. I put stickers every 8 inches and clamp it down. for maple, I have fans on it, and it dries in about 4 days. it will get really squirrely where the more grain character is. I have tried using blotters between and weight, but it is a lot of work to keep changing them. depends on the size and importance of the project. I have sawn quarter inch for several folks to cover beams.
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so, a few examples of thin cut wood. most cut at 3/8th or 1/4. crazy grain will try to make a problem for you, but it is pretty. my engraver bed is 18 x 24 so my goal is to make stock the fill the bed and I can make 24 coasters in a run at 4 x 4 inches. or a bunch of little coins for forestry forum friends. I have a thread I will try to find. but the wood dried pretty fast. the coasters are taken down to 1/8th in the sander. I now have a planer with a spiral head, and roller that can be instantaneously adjusted to zero, so may try planing again. it is dependent on species and some unknow moisture content. I have another oak covered beam but did not find those pics. a room divider and a closet liner. It is fun to make a thin cut like 1/16th to see if the saw is cutting well, and to hold up to the sun and light up the grain. some pics fought me on the turning, but I think I am getting it whipped.
drying thin wood for coaster stock. (forestryforum.com) (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=116232.msg1844509#msg1844509)
I cut thin quite a bit for my shaker boxes. All good information above. Be sure to joint your blade to nock don that high tooth or two to laminate the heavy scratches. I rigged an old grind stone laid on its side to do that. Dan
Its not clear if the beam is in position or not..... If the beam has yet to be installed I would recommend glueing something like a 3/4" surfaced board to the LVL and then putting the whole thing on mill and sawing off excess. Off cut might even stay flat enough to be used on other side of beam
I often use the above mentioned method for edge banding plywood and wrapping staircase posts. A trick I've used to sand veneer when using my drum sander, is to place the veneer on a sled.
Big difference between 1/8" and 1/4 or 3/8. I used to stock 3/8 figured soft maple. Doing 1/8 tulip can't be easy. And tulip [yellow poplar] is kind of nothing to look at even if you could dry it flat.
The easy way is to saw and dry 6/4 stock than re-saw to your desired thickness. Very few rejects and it stays flat.
I think this is close to what your thinking of doing. ERC glued to LVL's for door rail and stiles. I've done it to beams also with various species.
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I've sawn it at 1/8" and than run through my planer down to .040 inch. Thinner the planer will start to munch it, yes it sounds exactly like munching.
I have played with green sawing thin but just too many reject pieces for me. Something really valuable I might do green, but I would expect to spray commercial (or home made) veneer softener on it after drying to get it to lay flat.
I visited a friend yesterday to see a bed he had made for his daughter. The legs on headboard and foot board are an arch of poplar laminate he made. Should have taken a pic. He bought kiln dried yellow poplar boards for the entire project. Used his band saw to cut 1/4 inch thick slices. Built a jig of the arch with pegs into a sheet of plywood, coated each slice with epoxy, formed it into the jig, repeat repeat until thickness he wanted. Then attached a turn buckle to the ends and pulled the arch into tension to close any spacing between the slices. He used a formaldehyde glue/epoxy (?) to eliminate potential for long term creep which other epoxies are prone to. It is beautiful.
John sent me a pic:
IMG_0748.jpg
Great work on the bed
getting low on thin stock and had started a cant at the BSA camporee. I thought it was too narrow, but most of it exceeded 18 inches wide, and that is my goal. just got the mill back in its home and ran a few 5/16ths boards. looking for the perfect drying thickness. plan to try the spiral planer on this when dry.
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This is now night. I milled about 15 thin boards. I used a square and marked the top board at just over 2 foot long. I cut with a circular saw at full depth. It made it through 9 layers and left a mark on the last board. took them into stack. will see how they do at 5/16ths. also, they dry so fast that I think I will make some shorted stickers. My current batch are 1/4 wide and 5.8th tall. there has been some warping and I thin 1/4 x 1/4 will be enough and be easier to stack, as well get more boards on the stack.
I have at least a dozen thin walnut boards from 8"-14" wide and 6-8" long. They all have varying degrees of uniform cup to them. Most are pretty uniform down the length of the board despite some have big feathered crotch grain in them. I haven't been able to bring myself to burn them. I've been thinking that if you steam them you could definitely flatten them. But I'd need some kind of fixture to keep them flat while drying. Can't be metal touching the wood or it would stain. Thickness ranges from 3/16 to 1/4".
could try some blotter paper and stack them up with added moisture. need a flat top with weight. the trouble is they are hardened in the curved state. they may all just become equally curved. they are thin, and with figure might be worth the experiment. they should still burn if it doesn't work.
Doc ,what kind of wood are you sawing? Can't tell from pictures.
It is maple. had to crank the screws a quarter inch after the first 12 hours. been OOT for a day and had to crank another quarter. I will for sure make smaller stickers. like 1/4 x 1/4 to make stacking easier, and not let too much air dry the surface. only one edge with a visible ripple on the fan side.
We've sawn many tens of thousands of square feet of veneer over the years. A few things that I've learned.
- The thinner that it is sawn green, the more that it will move. The times that I sawed it 1/8" thick green, based upon grain it would turn into potato chips. The dried 1/8" veneer had to be moistened with mineral spirits or something similar in order to soften it up to lay flat. Green works fine with really thin sliced veneer (1/32")
- I get the best quality and yield if I mill into 5/4 or thicker boards, and then resaw after drying. Very little - if any wood movement in the sawn sheets post resawing. Consistency in MC% in the blank is critical though.
- Here is some of our veneer.
DENR pecan veneer on carts.jpg
DENR spalted pecan veneer flitch.jpg
Denr spalted pecan veneer laid out.jpg
DENR magnolia veneer by stageC.jpg
Magnolia veneer C.jpg
Wall with character veneer C.jpg
High fleck C.jpg
Veneer wall C.jpg
I assume yer resawing on the bandsaw in one of yer pics and not on the Baker. Beautiful work! ffsmiley
Quote from: chet on February 28, 2024, 04:12:21 PMI assume yer resawing on the bandsaw in one of yer pics and not on the Baker. Beautiful work! ffsmiley
Correct. I have a dedicated 16" horizontal bandsaw with a conveyor system, running Laguna Resaw King bands.
.035 kerf, 0 degree set and we're maintaining tolerances of .003 or less across the width of the veneer.
That's some beautiful and unique paneling Scott.
I've ran the Laguna Resaw King on my mill but never could come close to the tolerance your getting off the resaw. I was sawing some thin kiln dry tropical stuff. I also run that band on my shop bandsaw with power feeder and might be able to hold to .015". Limited on width to 12" with that machine.
I run Lennox blades on a 28 inch vertical bandsaw with a power feeder and get good results over 1/16 thick and thicker.. Only KD woods though. A little mahogany wall of veneer. The door is also veneer over sugar pine. I use the heck out of my little "veneer" setup. The new server is not taking my pics!
You answered my 0 degree set question without me even asking. ffcheesy
Quote from: tule peak timber on February 28, 2024, 05:35:33 PMI run Lennox blades on a 28 inch vertical bandsaw with a power feeder and get good results over 1/16 thick and thicker.. Only KD woods though. A little mahogany wall of veneer. The door is also veneer over sugar pine. I use the heck out of my little "veneer" setup. The new server is not taking my pics!
Rob, I started off with Lennox Tri-masters but switched over to Resaw Kings about 10 years ago. They are better in all areas. Thinner kerf, less material loss, and Laguna will resharpen them.
I used to have to sand around .025 - .030 per face to get rid of the kerf marks left by the Trimasters. With the RK's, that dropped to .010 - .015 - sometimes less.
My only disappointment with the RK's was when Laguna moved their production and resharpened it facilities from California to South Carolina. It took them months to get quality problems under control.
This is the machine that I use.
https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-16-30-hp-3-phase-dual-conveyor-horizontal-resaw-bandsaw/g0504
Look like tule peak timber has some competition!!!!
WOW!!!!
Quote from: thecfarm on February 29, 2024, 05:31:52 AMLook like tule peak timber has some competition!!!!
WOW!!!!
Uh - as much as I'd like to claim that... the answer is no.
Rob is in a class of his own when it comes to being an artisan.
All kidding aside, my experience with Torbin's resaw king blades and Lennox were exactly the opposite of SC's. This admittedly was back when he first came out with them.
My resaw is a modified SCM 28" vertical bandsaw that I beefed up the table on, added a Comatic resaw motor and roller kit and did a few other minor things. I added sealed bearing blade guides and a makeshift lubricating system, using watered down spindle lube and a blade wiper. Nowadays, instead of the blade lube attachment, I squirt on DuPont wax chain lube instead and it works quite well. As far as tolerances, I eyeball my set up with a 6" machinist rule and I'm probably sanding 50 thousandths or more through the wide belt. The great majority of my veneers are probably around 1/4", so I don't worry too much about removing material. Just set up, cut and go. The original machine and feeder cost me a total of around $8500, 15 years ago and that's about 1/2 of what today's prices are. The machine that SC is using most assuredly is a superior machine to my home brew model.
Another note on the thin veneer issue is that usually I glue immediately after coming off the saw and after every mistake in the book, I strictly use epoxy to laminate on a substrate. At this stage in the game, I probably won't step up to a better machine.
there is a guy in Wichita that has much used equipment for sale. including that grizzly resaw. I got my gizzly spiral planer and jointer as well as 3 logrite arches from him. was on craigslist. not meant to be an add.
Rob, I started with a setup similar to yours (24" vertical bandsaw with comatic power feeder and roller fence) but switched over to the 16" horizontal setup in 2009.
Here is a high res photo of some black walnut veneer that we resawed for a customer today. Sawn thickness was around .125 (1/8"), and the kerf marks sanded out at around .012 per side. Sanded thickness (both sides) was around .100
When I first tried the Resaw Kings about ten years ago, I was very disappointed with the cut quality and complained to Laguna. Their rep asked me to send them back and let them resharpen and return them to me, and told me that if I still wasn't satisfied that he would refund 100% of my purchase price (including shipping both ways), and I could keep the bands.
I was stunned by the difference after they had been resharpened and reset! Their rep told me that the bands were manufactured in Europe and that they could not maintain close tolerances at the speed on the production line. However, when they resharpened them they took their time to get them dead on.
After that, every time I ordered new bands I instructed them to resharpened and reset them before they even shipped them. Been great ever since (except immediately after their move to South Carolina).
20240229_123252.jpeg
That looks the same as what I'm getting from my Resaw King.
I'm confused about what your talking about when you say "set". My bands have a body .035 thick and a carbide tooth that is .060 wide. No set at all. The clearance is from the wide tooth. What is Laguna doing when you say "reset"?
Quote from: Larry on February 29, 2024, 09:35:07 PMThat looks the same as what I'm getting from my Resaw King.
I'm confused about what your talking about when you say "set". My bands have a body .035 thick and a carbide tooth that is .060 wide. No set at all. The clearance is from the wide tooth. What is Laguna doing when you say "reset"?
Larry, mine have a .035 body width, and .046 tooth width and 0 degree set. However, the first time that I bought them (before resharpening) there was a few thousands variance to the set - supposedly due to the way that they were mass produced and shipped.
When Laguna in California would resharpen them, they would reset the teeth so that there was no offset at all.
Interesting, learned something new. Thanks. Laguna must of changed the tooth width at some point, maybe to save money or maybe with less clearance they run better.