Will be starting a garden in 2025
What crops. Bushes. Fruit trees. Fruit vines.
Montana zone 6a. 5a. 5b
What would you recommend
All suggestions welcome
Also building a 12x32 twin wall polycarbonate greenhouse
Use sawmill for 2x6's
Then build frame
Then stain with airless sprayer
Then put twin wall on
We have grown peach trees. Ugly looking but VERY TASTY.!!!!!!!!!
Where killed over 30 years ago in February after 2 weeks of warm weather that got the trees to start budding.
Still remember the taste.
Have not tasted the same since.
Also killed the cherry trees around Flathead Lake
Will plant the trees along the property line
Then bird netting when fruit is growing
Berry bushes between trees
https://www.thespruceeats.com/montana-fruits-and-vegetables-2217211 (https://www.thespruceeats.com/montana-fruits-and-vegetables-2217211)
When I was at the U in Missoula, a neighbor had an impressive apricot tree. I remember her giving away apricots to any one who would take them.
Watched a couple videos on greenhouses buried 2 to 5 feet into the ground
Then adding geothermal heat loops 8 feet underground. 70 to 100 feet long. Ground temperatures that deep are near constant 40 to 50 degrees. In most of the videos they are growing oranges
found this useful site for when the sun will be directly overhead
https://www.suncalc.org/#/48.368,-114.1725,16/2024.03.06/12:47/1/3
then use your shadow and two stakes to mark your shadow
then orientate the build to that
will still use the Outdoor Wood Furnace, OWF, to heat the soil in the ground.
and may add the geothermal heating
part of the Geothermal loop will use the OWF trench to re-gain some of the heat lost
Plan to build it like a Polebarn
I got several cardboard tubes used for shipping chimney pipe sections. About 3 ft long
Frost is 5 ft. So 2 tubes per post
Then the metal bracket into the wet cement. Then the 4x6 post on the bracket
6x6 on the four corners
Build it once. Use it for 50 years
Will see how the twin wall polycarbonate holds heat in the winter
May add a 1x2 spacer then a second sheet on the outside
I bought orders of lady bugs and added them to our 300 sf experimental greenhouse this winter, basically zero aphids now on kale leaves that are in contact with the ground and those were definitely the ones harboring the most in the beginning.
Plan now is to have a 30'x100' in place for late summer and I definitely will run tubing under the raised beds to tie into the OWB. May just grow greens / cool season in it over the winter as those have done really well for me this winter then use it to get a jump on field transplant starts. Around here it's just too hot come summer to have anything in there so thinking I will toss some really long season soybeans in there mixed with sorghum as a cover crop / nitrogen fixation / green manure. Till it all in come September and plant cool season crops.
and i will make all of my raised beds the same.
in late fall i will move the coldframe into the greenhouse. one more frost protection layer
the house, greenhouse, and OWF trenches will form an almost equilateral triangle that will be used to put three empty, ADS 4-in x 100-ft Corrugated Solid Pipe
about a total of 250 feet of trenches
two fans in the greenhouse, one pushing into the pipes and the other pulling from the other end
the trench from OWF to house is too shallow, 2 feet, it will melt the snow on the ground.
and a good friend is giving me a lot of 4 ft chain-link fence. about 900 feet with concrete posts and most of the pipe. my fence line is 550 ft. never worked with chain-link.
mt land 2.jpg
Took a screen shot of my Property. then outlined each building in yellow. then removed everything else
trenches with water will be about 8 feet deep
trenches T1 and T2 will have the following
a heat loop from the OWF.
four air pipes around the OWF line
electrical
an empty 1 1/2 inch black HDPE pipe
Trench T3 will have
four air pipes
electrical
an empty 1 1/2 inch black HDPE pipe
a 1 1/2 inch black HDPE pipe with a one inch PEX pipe inside for water
so the air pipe flow is 300 feet long
Greenhouse to T3 to T1 to T2 to Greenhouse
Trench T4, 5 ft deep
a heat loop from the OWF.
electrical
an empty 1 1/2 inch black HDPE pipe
Trench T5, 2 feet deep
electrical
an empty 1 1/2 inch black HDPE pipe
The greenhouse pit
Dig the inside down about 4 feet
Line pit walls and bottom with foam board
Add a foot of dirt
Then pex pipe loop
Then fill with three feet of dirt
OWF water temp is 180 to 190 degrees
Do not want to cook the roots.
Have temperature probe in dirt
Pex pipe pump turns on at soil temp 40 degrees
Turns off at 50 degrees
Interesting!!!
I have a root cellar on one side of my basement, It's under the sunroom. Maybe 12 by 16 feet. The floor is lined with stones. It's about 6 feet under ground, with 2 feet of exposed concrete. I kept track one winter. When it was in the singles numbers seem like it got down to 46° then it would go up to 50 with higher temps. I only checked it one year. Just the sides and ceiling has 2 inch foam board.
Just had a thought.
55 gallon open top barrow
copper loop from OWF to heat water inside barrow
then a second copper loop to the pit PEX loop.
nope, too complicated.
so OWF ThermoPex has two Pex lines inside, Send and Return
Also was told about foam foundation blocks
Two birds with one stone
Would not need the tubes
Will not do the foam foundation blocks
Too much $$$
where do you get sprinkler system parts
besides Home Depot, Lowe's, Ace, true Value, Facebook, and Ebay
Here is a good vid of how I plan to build my raised beds
Mine will be 5x10 and 36 high I have lots of 3x10 white metal roofing
May coat the inside with something to reduce rust
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fThviH71CaI&pp=ygUWRGl5IG1ldGFsIHJhaXNlZCBiZWRzIA%3D%3D
Check out Bob Quinn out of Big Sandy, MT. He built an underground greenhouse that uses geothermal to heat it. He's been growing citrus, peaches, apples, cherries, etc in a much worse climate than the Flathead ffcheesy He has pioneered many organic and homestead ideas in the past, and he's a great guy to boot!
Levi
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=124171.msg2041865#msg2041865
greenhouse pit
The triple wall polycarbonate was delivered
November 6 two trees will be dropped
Will be clearing and flattening the greenhouse location
Have other properties before the snow comes
The garden slopes from North to South
the Garden Tool Room will have no Polycarbonate
it will be insulated and be kept at 40 deg during the winter
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/Greenhouse_Layout_-_2024-10-25.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=356416)
this is the future layout plan for the 1.5 acers
the yellow round is fruit trees
the long orange lines are berry bushes on the inside of the chain link fence
red lines are property lines
Pink lines are irrigation
the yellow rectangles are the different trailers we have. will be selling some
Multitek is a firewood processor
Timberking is a sawmill
will be a total of 9 to 10 gates
some locations will have a double gate, 12+12
will use the Bobcat E80 excavator to remove the top foot of yard soil\rock, then use a vibrating screen to sift the larger stuff.
then mix topsoil with the small stuff and add to the yard.
land is on top of a Glacier till rock pile. can leave the water hose run all week with out a puddle
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/202_-_oct_-_001~0.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=356415)
did the price of buying each individual part, and compared it to the 57253, 3 valve system.
will be using the Orbit Manifold 57253 cheaper and should be more reliable.
during this winter i am drawing many plans
watering
electrical
Cameras
i found on Craigslist a red 2,500 ft 1.25 inch roll of PEX for under $800
will be running a PEX 1.25 inch line from the house to the Greenhouse ( GH ) .
lines to the raised beds, fence growing, and fruit trees will all be 3/4 inch PEX-B Blue. and designing it so i can hook up an air compressor to winterize the lines outside the GH.
the lines inside the GH will be run down the center then to the wall raised beds
the camera POE Ethernet cable will be inside a White 3/4 Pex pipe, or the red 1.25 PEX
will add an empty 1.25 in each trench for the future, if i get the big roll
will be converting the 2 car garage into a work shop and adding heat from the OWF.
YouTube video
Raised bed double wall cold frame
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ef_TS19TRQg&pp=ygURQ29sZCBmcmFtZXMgIGhvb3A%3D
Trellis over walkway
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qFMQRcfSlMY&list=PLrnbT_X1WuhAtEldJ3YwhX--Hr_TCmqyB&pp=iAQB
Raised beds
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fThviH71CaI&pp=ygUWRGl5IG1ldGFsIHJhaXNlZCBiZWRzIA%3D%3D
Tomato companion planting
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw6pLasScX8
Tomato fertilizer
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2PjkgpOGRVg
Planting fruit trees
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gKAL3XpZkiw&pp=ygUeYmFyZSByb290IGZydWl0IHRyZWUgcGxhbnRpbmcg
Fruit trees growing poorly
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tBKMjF06wmo&pp=ygUoYmFyZSByb290IGZydWl0IHRyZWUgcGxhbnRpbmcgcm9ja3kgc29pbA%3D%3D
Root crop storage
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mdRRYdrwDrk
Holy cow! This is an impressive plan! You got a farm stand or do you plan to sell to markets?
great ideas. thanks for sharing. doc.
yes there is a Farmers Market on Thursdays during the spring-fall
I am sick of buying a Veg or Fruit at the store and it does not taste like it should
watched a YouTube channel called "More Than Farmers"
she used a Pectin that reacts to Calcium instead of to the sugar. it is called "Pomona's Universal Pectin"
this allows for much lower sugar levels in your jams
removed a Fir tree and it's stump that was in the way of planting fruit trees
the ripper tooth on the Bobcat E80 worked great
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/image5~0.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358306)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/image3~3.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358305)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/image1~4.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358303)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/image6~0.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358307)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/image7~0.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358308)
Your place looks a lot like the disaster my place is right now. If I finish all the projects, it will be a showplace!
Yellow box is rough location of the greenhouse
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/76470752497__D6CC0DB5-29F2-4A4A-83CA-C09634B93353.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358647)
Did 2 photos to make a 360 view
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/IMG_6582.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358648)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/IMG_6583.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358649)
my current well is over 500 ft from the house. the line has a leak that turns on the well pump every 2 minutes.
Directional boring is $25,000, a new well is $6,500
so drilling a new well.
changing the northern room for greenhouse into a well house with two 100 Gallon pressure tanks in blue
the yellow circle is a Honey 9 frame spinner
Yellow boxes are Hives with access to the outside.
the bees will travel through a Zig Zag channel to prevent winter winds from blowing into the hive.
the Green rectangles on the left are raised beds
the gray on the right are in-ground beds
squares are for wind pollination for crops like corn
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/Layout_Greenhouse_44_ft_-_2025-04-07_-_well.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358751)
can you see a wet spot when everything is running? cycling every 2 minutes implies a pretty big leak, assuming you already have pressure tanks. if found, can you dig up the line in one spot and repair? Seems it was not that long ago you put this all in.
Well and waterline was in 1960 in Montana with metal pipe
I think you are remembering Oregon with plastic pipe
can you hook onto it and pull plastic behind it to pull through?
You know your system better than anyone, but before you drill a new well, have you checked your pressure tank? If the bladder leaked out, has no pressure and the tank is waterlogged, it will also cause short cycling. It's a lot easier to check and fix than drilling a new well.
In Montana I can leave a water hose running full blast for a week and there will be no pool of water.
I have tried to find the leak
Turned the valve to the house off at the well house.
Watched the pressure gauge
It did not move during the 15 minute test
Turned on
Went to house and turned that valve off
Leak is somewhere between
Pipe is 1 inch
Too small
My neighbor tried a green house with OWB heating the ground with a series of pipes. It cost him 32 cords of wood he had to buy. That idea ran out of steam fast. Our winter is long up here, 9 months. He was also heating the house. He heats the house with regular stoves now and the OWB is long gone. It's an impractical and very expensive way to become self reliant on veg all year. Green house is only in spring until mid fall now.
They were at one time growing bananas in Newfoundland greenhouses, cost of production killed it. Now in more southern climes the numbers will pencil out I'm sure. Not here. I have also seen other banana operations come and go. In other situations where they move plants outside in summer, mostly what you accomplish is growing a plant with inedible fruit. Not time enough to mature.
Indoor(ish) bees is an interesting idea. I'd like to see pictures of that setup.
Quote from: aigheadish on April 08, 2025, 07:02:05 AMIndoor(ish) bees is an interesting idea. I'd like to see pictures of that setup.
indoor during winter
maybe all time
A walk-in high tunnel bug and bird netting
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ua6zCWlygRQ
Turning a cement mixer into a root vegetable cleaner and compost screener
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bQba3C_SR8U
Smart little guy you are!!!
i have a lot of 3x10 metal roofing
plan to make my raised beds 3x10
the 3 ft width will be the 10 ft cut into thirds = 3' 4"
then in the middle of the 10 ft i will use 1/2 inch PCV pipe ( green ) with glued on end caps ( Blue )
corners will have the wood on the outside. ( Red )
will look something like this
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/Raised_Beds.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=359821)
A good idea.
Nice.