Hi, I cut and sell a lot of firewood, mostly white ash. I've been letting it cure for about a year with excellent results. Last summer I cut some in June, split it and stacked it in the sun. I burned it that winter and it was excellent. Just wondering if anyone else has had similar results with ash to make sure I'm not crazy. If it dries that fast I could sell a lot more each year than I do now. Thanks
I guess if you split if fine enough, cut it short enough, and keep it from being rained on, and have it exposed to the sun, etc. it could dry in that time. But can one count on such good drying conditions year after year? what is the risk in customer loyalty if you supply wood that isn't 'dry'?
How do you test your wood to see if it is dry? and what moisture content do you shoot for to know it is dry?
Ash is unusual in my experience...unlike other hardwoods it burn well green and does not take much to dry.
Buzz
Hickory is a wood reported to put out a lot of heat without much drying but didn't know ash was. Interesting.
You should be aware when talking about ash fire wood about the emerald ash borer. In Michigan and Ohio, and probably more states to come, moving ash firewood is problematic at best, and in certain instances, illegal!
Buzz-sawyer
Motordevil
Pardon me. :)
I just did some looking around, and found this site that lists ash top-ranking for burning green in a pinch.
http://mb-soft.com/juca/print/firewood.html
Take a look. I learned something and will keep it in mind, as I have a lot of ash to burn (I don't sell firewood, just heat the house with it).
Good site, very informative, I've never been able to get a straight answer about the weigth of seasoned cords of wood until now. As far as emeral ash borer, there are no laws or restrictions in my area with regards to moving ash, and there is an abundance of it so all is well there. Besides, I sell most of it within 20 miles of where it's cut. I think the moisture content of ash is one of the lowest, especially in winter when the sap is out. It's not the densest or heaviest wood, but it seems to throw good heat and make nice hot coals. Last summer was very dry in my area so that could have contributed to the wood drying so fast. My customers know I sell a good product and wouldn't appreciate getting wet wood when they think they're getting dry wood. I won't risk selling wood that isn't going to make them happy. I do split my wood reasonable small and sell it in either 12" or 16" lengths. The 12" stuff dries noticably faster than the 16" stuff. The way I check it to see how dry it is isn't very precise, but it works. I take a piece that's of average size in the pile, split it in half and feel the wood for moisture. Not precise, but it works.
You need to be specific about the type of ash you have. White ash is normally low in moisture content when fresh cut and doesn't need to loose much to be good to burn. Black ash has a much higher moisture content and will take longer to dry.
You might find it useful to have a moisture meter on hand to test the wood now and then. It would be a useful tool if you wanted to rotate your inventory faster. You could also use it to compare drying rates of the various woods, once they are below FSP.
It can also be handy if you are advertising your wood as "seasoned" or dry, in the event a customer (or competitor) challenges your claim.
That's some good info on the firewood. Printed it out so I can keep it out by the mill. I was going to as what moisture content was considered dry for firewood, but found it on the site. I guess this means the big box stores are selling lots of firewood? :o ;D >:(
Welcome to the forum Motor Devil. I heat my camp and my house with wood so I have a little experience in using firewood. I usually have my wood cut and split before July. I cut it 16" long and split everything that is over about 4" diamteter. I cut black birch, beech, eastern hophornbeam, maple, oak, hickory, cherry, ash, elm, and thornapples. In other words I cut and burn what ever needs to be cut out of my woods. I stack my wood under a canopy of white pine trees within 50' of the south shore of Lake Ontario. The stack is uncovered. By the time heating season arrives in the fall my wood is down to around 12% moisture. I have a Lignomat mini Ligno dx that I check the moisture with. My wood is in the shade and being so close to the lake one could say the relative humidity is generally high. Even so my wood will be dry in one summer and the key reason is because the wood is split and there is good air circulation. There is usually a breeze close to the lake.
So my advice to you is to cut it into blocks as short as possible ( 16" ), split it early, and stack it in the open where you will get good air circulation. Do not just pile it up in a heap.
Ash has a low moisture content when dead green. Has less than half as much water in it as Oak, for example. Therefore it is reasonable to expect it to dry faster
I don't think it's quite as little as half the water of Red Oak. We use 42% for average green MC of Ash and 70% for the average green MC of oaks.
Here is a picture of next winters wood sitting under the white pines about 50' from Lake Ontario. It was cut and split this spring and will be nice and dry by this fall. The blank areas in the background is the lake. It is a mix of ash, oak, beech, maple, birch, ironwood, etc. Been drying it like this for at least 13 years and never had a problem with it not being dry. Sits just like that till it gets burned.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10129/dryingwood.JPG)
It's not a straight line relationship where 80%mc in one wood means there is twice as much water as another wood that is at 40% mc.
Since the formula is based on the oven-dry weight of the wood in question, it would take less water to give a high mc of a very light wood than it would with a very heavy wood.
Bob,
Good point. Red Oak has about 4.49 gallons per mbf per 1% while Ash has about 3.40 gallons per mbf per 1%.
Den
A cubic foot of NRed Oak at 70% will have about 25 pounds of water and a cubic foot of Black Ash will have about 12 pounds of water at 42% (rounded)
But it only requires removing 6 pounds of water from the Ash to get to 20% while about 18 pounds has to be removed from Oak and it is the difference that is telling.
So water moves more slowly through Oak and three times as much has to evaporate, hence a huge difference in drying time.
An old saying was " Ash wood wet or ash wood dry a king shall warm his slippers by". I have white ash and it will burn in my maple evaporator when I run out of wood. I can cut it, split it and burn it the same day. I get good evaporation. Believe me the evapoation rate will tell you if the moisture is high and white ash at least is good green if cut during the winter, not sure about other times of the year but I only need to burn it in the winter and only evaporate in very late Feb- mid to late April. My evaporator will lose about 20% in rate of evaporation if you put in wood with higher than desired moisture and all wood is split to about wrist size for a real fast fire, the faster the evaporation the lighter grade the syrup or translated the longer any drop of syrup spends in the evaporator the lighter the color and grade. (however there are other factors that affect the color, ie- fresher sap, cleaner lines, and so forth.)
My experience with burning ash is that if its dry it burns up too fast even in airtight fireplaces so I burn it green or else add some dry white oak to the fire to make it chug all night long . Also I never split wood , I just cut nice chunks that can be carried or tossed into the loader bucket and a nice chunk of wood wont desinegrate in the fireplace as fast as split wood . Split wood seems to be all that is advertised in the local papers here .
Quote from: Motor Devil on May 28, 2005, 10:27:24 PM
Hi, I cut and sell a lot of firewood, mostly white ash. I've been letting it cure for about a year with excellent results. Last summer I cut some in June, split it and stacked it in the sun. I burned it that winter and it was excellent. Just wondering if anyone else has had similar results with ash to make sure I'm not crazy. If it dries that fast I could sell a lot more each year than I do now. Thanks
For my bundled firewood business I only burn and sell Ash. I can take a load of fresh cut ash put it in my kiln over night it will be under 15 percent next day. Ash with a little breeze and heat. I can do just over a rank a day that's about 90 to 110 a day.
Quote from: beenthere on May 28, 2005, 11:38:32 PM
Buzz
Hickory is a wood reported to put out a lot of heat without much drying but didn't know ash was. Interesting.
Ash is the King of Firewood. If I wanted to I could dry more firewood than you could sell a day. I can just in my shop my gas furnice on pilot keeps my shop around 62 degrees my 6 ft fan on low about a 1000 bundles in 24 hours. But I do it in my kiln because it holds a little over a rank it cleans out easy cause I'm lazy. I make about $250.00 . I am full time not when grass gets green and I switch to lawn mower man later
Quote from: CRThomas on November 05, 2013, 03:46:02 PM
Quote from: Motor Devil on May 28, 2005, 10:27:24 PM
. I can do just over a rank a day that's about 90 to 110 a day.
CRThomas - Would you explain this sentence? What is your definition of a 'rank', and what does the '90 to 110 a day' mean?
Thanks. Looking to learn.
Norm
Quote from: beenthere on May 28, 2005, 11:48:52 PM
Buzz-sawyer
Motordevil
Pardon me. :)
I just did some looking around, and found this site that lists ash top-ranking for burning green in a pinch.
http://mb-soft.com/juca/print/firewood.html
Take a look. I learned something and will keep it in mind, as I have a lot of ash to burn (I don't sell firewood, just heat the house with it).
I just learned some good things to from this thanks beenthere great site wish I seen it be for glad some one pulled this post back from all most retirement :D
FWIW you can burn ash right off a green tree .Problem is in these parts and most of Michigan there hasn't been a live ash in probabley 4-5 years .
Most of the EAB killed ash you could burn in just a couple weeks .A big fat one might still hold some moisture but it dries real fast once it's split .
Quote from: Shotgun on November 05, 2013, 04:58:55 PM
Quote from: CRThomas on November 05, 2013, 03:46:02 PM
Quote from: Motor Devil on May 28, 2005, 10:27:24 PM
. I can do just over a rank a day that's about 90 to 110 a day.
CRThomas - Would you explain this sentence? What is your definition of a 'rank', and what does the '90 to 110 a day' mean? A rank in our area is a pick up load I
get for $45.00 I get 90 to 110 bundles out of it min I get per bundle is $2.50 that's how many bundles I do and deliver if I buy a semi load of logs it cost me $250.00 cash that figures out to about $8.00
Thanks. Looking to learn.
Norm
Quote from: Motor Devil on May 28, 2005, 10:27:24 PM
Hi, I cut and sell a lot of firewood, mostly white ash. I've been letting it cure for about a year with excellent results. Last summer I cut some in June, split it and stacked it in the sun. I burned it that winter and it was excellent. Just wondering if anyone else has had similar results with ash to make sure I'm not crazy. If it dries that fast I could sell a lot more each year than I do now. Thanks
Ash will burn farely good the next day after you have cut and split. A couple days with air little heat in your shop or garage Ash will be way down. You need to know your percent for your area ours is 15% average. You deliver the wood if your below that of your % it will go back to what ever your area is. I am only talking Ash. I dont fool with any other wood but cooking wood.
Ash around here starts out around 42% MC. Compare that to ~70% for oak and up to 100% for Soft Maple.
Well to cut to the chase ash is good firewood .I think it's nice lumber also but that's not the topic .
Now then BTU's and how long it lasts .If if burns up too fast use larger pieces .I have no problem banking a nice fire over night with nothing but ash wood and I keep the house between 75 and 80 degrees .Sure oak or hickory does better if you have it .I do some don't .
Also all wood no matter if it's balsa or osage orange produces the same BTU's per pound .Not volume ,pound .You want a faster fire split it smaller .
There is an old New England Yankee saying that "Ash is Cash." You can go to the woodlot and cut ash firewood then sell it in town for immediate cash.
I am surprised this old time phrase had not been mentioned. I am from Oregon but I have Yankee roots so I learned the phrase.
My favorite phrase is : Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without! That is the story of my life.
Kderby
My favorite phrase is : Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without! That is the story of my life.
Kderby
[/quote]oh how true it is :D :D :D 8)
Quote from: Motor Devil on May 28, 2005, 10:27:24 PM
Hi, I cut and sell a lot of firewood, mostly white ash. I've been letting it cure for about a year with excellent results. Last summer I cut some in June, split it and stacked it in the sun. I burned it that winter and it was excellent. Just wondering if anyone else has had similar results with ash to make sure I'm not crazy. If it dries that fast I could sell a lot more each year than I do now. Thanks
I think I might have sent info on here. But so here we go I cut a rank of wood in the morning I take the wood out from the day before. Place that in my shop little air flow a little heat maybe 65 degrees the next day I bundle that wood at 15 percent. Ash cut in the winter when the leaves are gone burns very very good. After plotting Ash 24 hours it ready that's all I sell is Ash in bundles
Quote from: kilndry on May 29, 2005, 12:36:33 PM
You might find it useful to have a moisture meter on hand to test the wood now and then. It would be a useful tool if you wanted to rotate your inventory faster. You could also use it to compare drying rates of the various woods, once they are below FSP.
It can also be handy if you are advertising your wood as "seasoned" or dry, in the event a customer (or competitor) challenges your claim.
to test moisture content I take a piece that's is suppose to be dry and split it and check the middle of the split. When I put a rank or 2 of split wood in the shop with a little heat and air flow thebendsbwill be 8 to 10 percent the center will be 14 to 16 percent. You deliver the wood and it will stay what ever your area is. Our a age in my areavisb15 percent.
I still split the ash and stack it on pallets to air dry for at least 2 winters before burning.
Shorter time than that the ash will still burn, but not give off as much heat.
But I burn wood to get the heat, not to just see it burn up. 8)
Dry wood does have more heat than wet wood. The amount is merely the energy used to evaporate the water. For example, a ten pound green piece of wood might have 5-1/2 pounds of wood and 4-1/2 pounds of water. If it is dried to around 10% MC, then it will have 5-1/2 pounds of wood and 5 pounds of water. We get about 6500 BTUs of useable heat per pound of wood...this number is low because the burner has heat losses, including a lot of fresh air (oxygen). So, 5-1/2 x 6500 = 35,750 BTUs is the usable heat, but we have to subtract the heat needed to evaporate the 1/2 pound or 4-1/2 pounds of water (needs 500 BTUs for dry wood or 4500 BTUs for wet wood). So, the heat from a ten pound wet piece of wood, any species without lots of resin, is 35,750 - 4500 = 31,250 BTUs. The heat from this same piece after drying is 35,750 - 500 = 35,250. Drying gives about 12% more heat.
Drying also can kill insects.
Note that if you sell wood by volume, the dry pieces will shrink about 6 - 8%, so you might have to add 8% more wood to make a cord measured when dry. This 8% more dry wood in a dry cord adds 8% more heat as well. So, sometimes we read that drying adds 20% more heat, but that is not quite true. Also, if we compare ten pounds of wet wood with ten pounds of dry wood, we have 31,250 from the green. For dry wood, increasing 35,250 for six pound up to ten pounds, we see that ten pounds of dry wood has 58,750. So, it can appear that drying adds 60%. Kinda like "how to lie without really cheating."
Quote from: Motor Devil on May 28, 2005, 10:27:24 PM
Hi, I cut and sell a lot of firewood, mostly white ash. I've been letting it cure for about a year with excellent results. Last summer I cut some in June, split it and stacked it in the sun. I burned it that winter and it was excellent. Just wondering if anyone else has had similar results with ash to make sure I'm not crazy. If it dries that fast I could sell a lot more each year than I do now. Thanks
I cut Ash in the winter time for my firewood business cut the tree one day split and bundle the same day put in in my kiln the next day it is down to 15 percent. My kiln stays at 65 degress. my six foot fan on low my deh. on low. it is ready to sell drying time 24 hours unless the wood is froze then it has to be thawed out then goes to the back of the dryer for a week out of the way. Ash is ready to burn fresh cut. in the winter cut I have tested it have not tried summer cut I down my logs in the winter months and stock pile in my yard. I only cut each day what I sell the next day stealing has gotten bad in my area. They steal split wood but they can't steal logs 20 feet long or as easy.
Quote from: Motor Devil on May 28, 2005, 10:27:24 PM
Hi, I cut and sell a lot of firewood, mostly white ash. I've been letting it cure for about a year with excellent results. Last summer I cut some in June, split it and stacked it in the sun. I burned it that winter and it was excellent. Just wondering if anyone else has had similar results with ash to make sure I'm not crazy. If it dries that fast I could sell a lot more each year than I do now. Thanks
I only bundle and sell Ash some times I put some other wood like Cherry to change it a little bit. Ash burns clean very little ash's no snap crackle pop after bundled a bundle is almost half the weight of Oak or Hickory So the little old 70 lady can put it in her fire place or be able to get out of her car trunk. In my shop I can pull a cord of Ash down to 14 to 16 percent in 24 hours with heat air flow and a deh. I will get about 4 to 6 gal of water in that time period. But I only cut my wood in the winter time or when the leaves are gone. I have about 20 cord stacked up and I got 2 more months to saw and haul. This winter has been hard on my reserves but I am back on the good side and getting better all the time. When the farmers start farming my cutting on them is over so I go to hauling off tree cutters stuff they can't handle. I also take on little jobs since my wife fired all the help because they were tearing up more than we could fix.
Quote from: beenthere on May 28, 2005, 10:35:23 PM
I guess if you split if fine enough, cut it short enough, and keep it from being rained on, and have it exposed to the sun, etc. it could dry in that time. But can one count on such good drying conditions year after year? what is the risk in customer loyalty if you supply wood that isn't 'dry'?
How do you test your wood to see if it is dry? and what moisture content do you shoot for to know it is dry?
I have a meter I let my wood dry for 24 hours then then I take a split peice and resplit it to check the inside. when I split 8 pieces make a 1 ft square When bundling the wrap pulls it down to about 0.75 of a square foot
I am amazed that so many posters on a forestry forum know so little about white ash.Ive know white ash was the best firewood for 70 years.I carried in wood for my mothers cook stove and picked out the ash because it was lighter to carry.Our firewood was mixed and my mother would ask for ash when cooking.Saw one post where ash was sold for less money for a cord.I cut a lot of ash september thru december last fall and am burning it now.Chimney runs clean when I have mostly ash.
Quote from: beenthere on December 21, 2013, 04:30:30 PM
I still split the ash and stack it on pallets to air dry for at least 2 winters before burning.
Shorter time than that the ash will still burn, but not give off as much heat.
But I burn wood to get the heat, not to just see it burn up. 8)
I have to disagree.White Ash will be dead dry in one year.You will have a hard time proving more heat from 2 year old ash.Also wood drys mostly from the ends.Splitting is a feel good thing.Take 2 16 inch lengths of ash cut from the same log.Weigh both, split one then weigh both in 6 months.I split ash for the cook stove, makes it easy to load thru top covers.Split woods burn faster.
Pound for pound, we get the same amount of heat from any species of wood, unless it has resin which adds a small amount of heat. (Note: The pound of wood referred to is bone dry wood. Some species, when first cut, have more water than others; I am not talking about this water weight.
Example: A freshly cut stick of red oak weighing 3.5 pounds will have 1.5 pounds of water and 2 pounds of dry wood. The green MC is 75% MC. A fresh stick of white oak weighing 3.2 pounds will have 1.2 pounds of water and 2 pounds of dry wood. The green moisture is 65% MC. If we dry both pieces to around 15-20% MC, we will get the same amount of heat from both.)
When considering the effect of moisture on the amount of heat we get from wood, for each pound of water in the wood we have to use about 1000 BTUs to evaporate the moisture.
Example: Consider one cord of green red oak (75% MC) that weighs 7500 pounds. There will be 4286 pounds of dry wood and (7500 - 4286 = ) 3214 pounds of water. Assuming that we will get 6000 BTUs of USEFUL heat per pound of dry wood, and that we will have to evaporate 3214 pounds of water, the NET amount of heat will be (6000 x 4286) - (3214 x 1000) = 22.5 million BTUs per cord.
Now, let's air dry this to 20% MC. We still have 4286 pounds of dry wood, but we only have 857 pounds of water. So, the NET amount of heat will be (6000 x 4286) - (857 x 1000) = 24.9 million BTUS. This is an increase of 11% in the amount of heat that we get when air drying. HOWEVER, the air dried wood is no longer a cord--it shrank about 5 % in size, so it is 0.95 of a cord. If we add a few sticks of wood to bring the air dried wood back to a full cord, we will increase the HEAT PER AIR DRIED CORD by about 17%. But, it is not fair to say that air drying increases the heat by 17% because along with air drying, I also had to had 5% more wood.