For 36 years my woods were no where near buildings or wires and I cut lots of dead trees for firewood, usually where I aimed them. Now at my new place the small amount of woods that I have runs along one side and close to my new pole building. In the fall I saw a dead red oak about 14", very tall, with a mild lean to my building. I kept thinking I could drop it IF I could get a rope up high but I don't even like ladders let alone climbing so I kept putting it off untill a few days ago I saw a tree crew cutting up a big "yard tree" just up the road and I know the guy that lives there. I stopped and ask him what he thought about them and he approved, I talked to the crew boss for a minute and when they finished there they came down and looked, i said just drop it down parrallel to the building and I'll do the rest. He climbed way higher than I'd of thought, tied off a rope and his crew of 3 pulled while he cut it off about 3' off the ground, hit right where I wanted and cost me $260 cash. With my old knees I think it was money well spent!
I recently paid to have couple of trees cut on my woodlot. They were along the road frontage and all on a steep banking leaning out over the road. There are power lines along with bunch of fiber optic and cable lines on the same poles. Rather than take the risk I paid I guy to climb and drop them. I probably could have cabled the trees to pull them back away from the powerlines but not worth the risk.
Now that's how you do it! Tree guys, like loggers spend a lot of money to get the right equipment and crew on a job site, then they have to make that daily rate to cover salaries, loan payments, insurance, and profit. If you look at it from their point and can throw in a bonus tree for the day, after they have already made their daily goal AND you eliminated the cleanup, which takes MOST of the time, AND you paid them in cash, everybody wins. I'll bet he was at your place less than an hour in total. I'll also bet it took you most of a day to clean it up. But you saved a ton of money, avoided the hazard, nd got peace of mind.
I hear this all the time from clients. I don't cut trees for money, but occasionally will drop smaller ones with no hazard or risk. They all say "I got quotes, but holy cow, these guys want a fortune, and this/these tree(s) is/are pretty simple. I can't pay that, it's crazy". I try not to laugh out loud, then try to explain to them why it costs what it costs. I then explain the best way is to find someone willing to just drop it, then they do the cleanup themselves. Most don't really like to or even can do the actual work of cleanup. For working folks, it's a good way to go.
With 'my guy' who is also a good friend, I show him the tree I need done and when his crew and gear are in the right place or they are returning home early he will come in and drop it, chip the small stuff, and leave me the rest to finish. Sometimes this means waiting for 6-15 months, but it gets done on his calendar. This last one was a 38" DBH RO dying and leaning at my house. I waited more than 2 years, but when he bought a 75' skidder/bucket truck and wanted to try it out, it was my tree we got to just in time. We are still waiting for the ground to freeze so we can drop the main stem. ffcheesy
Now he parks the skidder/bucket in my driveway and has used it on 3 other jobs here on my road recently. I use it as a lawn ornament and a way for folks to find my house easy. :wink_2:
Again, good for you!
Yes, sometimes the best decision is to let a pro handle it.
I had 2 big dead ash dropped by loggers that were working on my neighbors property. I had been staring at them for years and didn't feel safe with all the dead branches and one was split into 2 main trunks. They were cutting next door and there was one tree on the property line they wanted and the boss asked me If I wanted to split the value on it. Well I quickly thought about the ash and said it's all yours if you will just knock down the ash and they could take the over 2 ft sawlog off the big ash also. Well took them about 1/2 hour to drop them and luckily they had a big skidder because a wind came up and pushed the big one the wrong way so they just dragged it out. Don't know if the ash log had much value though. The whole center of it was black and looked like some kind of bacterial infection. We think it was black ash. Everybody was happy and safe in the end.
Quote from: 21incher on March 17, 2024, 09:47:01 AMI had 2 big dead ash dropped by loggers that were working on my neighbors property. I had been staring at them for years and didn't feel safe with all the dead branches and one was split into 2 main trunks. They were cutting next door and there was one tree on the property line they wanted and the boss asked me If I wanted to split the value on it. Well I quickly thought about the ash and said it's all yours if you will just knock down the ash and they could take the over 2 ft sawlog off the big ash also. Well took them about 1/2 hour to drop them and luckily they had a big skidder because a wind came up and pushed the big one the wrong way so they just dragged it out. Don't know if the ash log had much value though. The whole center of it was black and looked like some kind of bacterial infection. We think it was black ash. Everybody was happy and safe in the end.
Now that is what I would call have I got a deal for you.
GAB
Quote from: 21incher on March 17, 2024, 09:47:01 AMI quickly thought about the ash and said it's all yours if you will just knock down the ash and they could take it ... Everybody was happy and safe in the end.
Hey Bud, please send them north. I've got 2 cottonwoods they can have. One is 4' 6" and the other over 5' dbh. I'll even give them breakfast, dinner, and supper. ffcheesy
That was wise and well worth it.
Knowing where everyone specializes and strengths shows strong ethics and professionalism.
Sure,you can cut trees, they can cut trees, both you both have different specialities.
I've finished a few jobs that needed finished. I would never judge anyone for stepping away before something bad happens. It just isn't worth it in the event of catastrophic failure. One job a homeowner placed a tall ladder against a tree to cut a big limb off. The limbs don't always land flat. It landed on its tip and the butt knocked the ladder out from underneath him. He broke both ankles and said the bone was sticking out on one. Makes me queasy thinking about it.
I've walked away from a couple of trees before. and let a mutual friend of the land owner (a professional logger) handle them. He had both the gear and skill to get them down safely.
Identifying a hazard tree is a good skill to learn. If you look at a tree, and your gut tells you "This could go badly wrong", listen to that little voice. :thumbsup:
Yup. I'm leaving more and more of them standing for age and gravity to deal with. :thumbsup:
I asked a excavating company to pull a few spruce trees over for me that were near the property line within reach of the neighbouring building and power lines and busy road, they were working on a sidewalk install along the road so a few months later when walking the larger machine back to pick it up they stopped a pulled over 4 trees in 12 min. One tree had a dead top so he took his time otherwise it would have only been half the time. Well spent $80.00 plus I heated my home for a while too....thinking about it, work paid the $80.00 and also paid me to cut up my firewood too.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/20221108_170211.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=334549)
Quote from: Ianab on March 19, 2024, 01:37:15 AMI've walked away from a couple of trees before. and let a mutual friend of the land owner (a professional logger) handle them. He had both the gear and skill to get them down safely.
Identifying a hazard tree is a good skill to learn. If you look at a tree, and your gut tells you "This could go badly wrong", listen to that little voice. :thumbsup:
Exactly! Knowing when to walk away because the situation is more than you can handle or beyond the capabilities of the equipment you have available is an important skill to have
Something that must be remembered here, always make sure that the folks doing this work for you are properly insured. With out it, you can be held personally liable if something goes wrong, that may include their personal injuries.
I asked about insurance and was assured that they were. When they backed into my driveway I took 2 photos of their truck, one showing whole truck in my driveway and one zoomed in on the business name, phone number, and list of available services, under that it said "Fully Insured".
When bidding jobs I would advise future clients to always get a copy of their contractor's insurance before any work commences. I personally know of folks that got stung really bad by not doing so. Including cases where the home owners were successfully sued by the folks they hired for damages incurred or personal injuries.
I often ask, and am told "insured".
A couple years back, I was getting ready to hire a couple young painters to paint some of my homes' overhanging eaves. Wondering what I needed, I called my home owners insurance, and was told that I should have a copy of their insurance listing my name and address on that copy. Made sense to me.
I normally always only provided a copy of insurance. But I have been required to provide a named copy as you stated and also be bonded. In most all those instances it was government, large Corp, or insurance related work.
That insurance seems to be more a US thing?
Here in NZ ANY accident is covered by a universal insurance policy. It's paid by a levy on wages, based on your occupation. Loggers pay a bit more, because more than average accidents. You have to actually be "negligent" to be sued or prosecuted.
You can be prosecuted if you (as an employer / workplace) expose people to avoidable risk, and no amount of insurance will protect you there. But in the case of a hazard tree, if you ID the "risk", and hire a "pro", then you have taken "reasonable" precautions.
If you tell your teenage worker to "go cut down that tree", and he's not had any official training in logging or arborist work, and he hurts himself, OSH will come down on you like a ton of bricks. Accident insurance will pay his hospital bills and lost wages, but you might still be on the hook for other compensation.
@Ianab, What you are referring to is what we call Workers Compensation,
which is a form of employee insurance coverage that pays benefits to workers who are injured or become disabled as a result of their job. In most cases here only regular employees are eligible for workers' compensation; independent contractors are not. This insurance only covers that worker for injuries, nothing else.
Yes it's similar to that, but Universal. Covers everyone, for any accident. You don't even have to be a NZ resident, if you break your leg getting off a cruise ship, your treatment is covered. (Just you can't claim lost wages unless you are a NZ taxpayer)
You could still be found criminally liable for an accident, but that's covered by workplace safety / traffic laws / creating a public nuisance etc. And you may be ordered to pay an injured party more compensation, but their medical expenses and lost wages have already been paid. You also can't insure against a criminal conviction.
A civil court case for accidental injury is very rare because everyone has the same Insurance Co. They have to pay out the same, no matter which party gets the blame for an accident, and unless you are found criminally negligent you aren't on the hook.
It's not a problem at all to have your insurance agent email proof of insurance. It's really tough to get insurance that combines tree service with logging/falling so might not hurt to get a policy description if they plan on falling anything vs piecing it down.
During a hurricane an oak tree had split and 1/2 had fallen into the branch of the neighboring tree. It was about 10 foot off the ground and hung up. a month or two later A crew was finishing up working on my neighbors house with all the equipment (shredders/skid steer) so I went over and asked if they would come and get this tree on the ground for me. The foreman came over and took a couple pics and sent into his boss - who replied they'd do it for $500. I told the foreman I had $300 cash and they could do it for that or I'd just have to figure something else out. He smartass replied "We don't negotiate rates" so I said sure I understand thanks for coming to look at it. He then says if I want to propose a rate "way less than market" to his boss I can explain it to him on the phone. So I did - told the boss I estimated it would take 10 minutes or less just to cut the tree out and drop it in place. He said it wasn't worth their time to do it for $300, as they had to pay for the crew, the fuel, etc. Again I told him sure I understood and further more they must be killing it if they can gross $1800/hr ($300/10 mins of work) and if that was the case I'd feel the same way he did. The phone went silent, he just said "Tell the guys to do it for $300" and hung up.
The foreman didn't believe me so he called back the boss. It took them about 10 minutes to do one cut, drop the tree on the ground, collect $300, and happily drive away.
Up to them what they want to charge for cutting your tree. IMO
You were lucky, I guess, to talk them into a lower price. Not sure I understand why you didn't cut it to "just get it on the ground". ?? You would have saved $300.
@WDFLIf you'd tried to dicker with me over a price on a tree job I'd have laughed and walked away. If it was so easy you should have done it yourself!
Things that look like it will take 10 min and are "easy" might be just that. But the stated price takes into account the risk and the consequences if something goes wrong. That's what the homeowner forgets. It's all good untill it's not. Like I said glad you feel like you got a deal.
But when it comes to my biz and urban tree work the price is the price.
Tree work is expensive because the labor/equipment and insurance is expensive. Plus it's feast or famine. I had an in-law about 3 hours from me needing a big Doug fir taken down in their small front yard. It was about 4' diameter and school marmed into 3 tops at about 100' and about 150' total. It was about 20' from house and 10' from fence/property line and about 40' from the road/culdesac. I couldn't get to it right away and they had a guy come in for $1200 which was cheaper than I could have done it doing it for free lol. So many tree services starve out during the slow times.
Most often those guys doing it on da cheap are working for cash and not paying taxes, workers comp on their help, or paying for insurance. :snowball:
There's no shame in asking for a discount for cash, senior, veteran, etc. sometimes it helps sometimes not as long as you do it civilly and not demanding. That's my opinion as a senior veteran who often pays cash ffcheesy
Didnt pay cash. Tree trimmer that brings me firewood and I occasionally saw lumber for free for came with his man lift and took down 2 dead ash in my yard for free. One was leaning toward our house and the other over an apple tree
Quote from: chep on August 15, 2024, 09:27:12 AM@WDFL
If you'd tried to dicker with me over a price on a tree job I'd have laughed and walked away. If it was so easy you should have done it yourself!
Things that look like it will take 10 min and are "easy" might be just that. But the stated price takes into account the risk and the consequences if something goes wrong. That's what the homeowner forgets. It's all good untill it's not. Like I said glad you feel like you got a deal.
But when it comes to my biz and urban tree work the price is the price.
Good point. At the time I didn't have a tractor. Else I could have raised the branch just enough to remove the stress and cut it.
They were using a CTL to move branches so that's why I flagged them down. They used the grapple exactly like I described, had a guy cut the end off, and dropped it on the ground.
Don't feel too bad for them, when I had a lighting strike a tree I hired the same folks to come cut it down, I only got one quote from them and hired them on the spot because they gave me the good deal a few years earlier. $2100.
A few years back, maybe in 2017 I think, I should have hired one cut but I did it myself. The cherry tree was about 34-36" where I cut, and was just a shell and there was an opening of about 13" on one side. The tree was still alive.
I decided I'd use my 8000# excavator to push when ready. I only had about 7" of wood to make a hinge at about 90 degrees from the open void. I cut just 4" deep making a notch and barely straghtened the back side of the hinge, leaving 3" in the center but cutting in on the circle so it could fall. I then proceeded to position my excavator on the opposite side with the blade down, away from the tree, put the bucket up almost to max reach and I put some pressure on the tree. I then proceeded to saw out from the hinge toward the back, first on the open face then on the other face. all went well until I actually broke out the back. At that point the tree broke forming a barber chair, the end of the trunk on the excavator side shot up and rested on one small section I had missed with my saw. The base of the tree was about 12' off the ground and my excavator was caught on top of the now almost horizontal part of the tree and both tracks were off the ground. The only ground contact was the blade I had pushed down on the ground.
It was a harry time but I eventually got the excavator off the tree and was able to drive it around beside the trunk, while operating it from the ground ready to run if needed. I think that part likely took maybe 45 minutes, but I was then able to push the trunk off the top of the barber chair, away from me and the excavator and no one was hurt or worse. However, I'll never try one like that again for sure. When it came down, the part holding everything up fell with it.
That tree had to come down because a shop was being hauled in the next week (An Amish shed 14x28'[) It was not accessable from any logging road and my thought was any climber would have not tried to climb it.