The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: Ljohnsaw on May 09, 2024, 12:30:43 AM

Title: T&G Knifes
Post by: Ljohnsaw on May 09, 2024, 12:30:43 AM
I picked up an MP200 two sided planer for my cabin project. I need to make T&G for my floors, roof and walls. The floors and roof will be out of 2x pine stock an the walls out of 1x incense cedar.

I'm thinking of having one set of knives made with a double T&G. Full height for the 2x and drop down for the 1x.

Is there folly in this plan?
Title: Re: T&G Knifes
Post by: Don P on May 09, 2024, 06:33:20 AM
I couldn't find 2x T&G knives a few years ago and ground a pair for a friend to do his on a shaper. It surprised me that it is not a stock pattern available somewhere. The only thing I can think of that might be an issue is think about the chamfer and the projecting "wing" that is cutting it, and then stacking the next pattern above that. You need enough meat on that wing that it isn't liable to break if it hits a knot wrong.
Title: Re: T&G Knifes
Post by: Southside on May 09, 2024, 08:48:37 AM
The tongue on my 2" T+G knives is significantly larger than the 1".  I don't see how you could fit both onto a pattern and have it work.  On your machine I believe the knives are secured with pins so you don't have the option of shifting the knife up or down either. 
Title: Re: T&G Knifes
Post by: maineshops on May 09, 2024, 09:02:23 AM
Can you put 2 1 in ping and grove on the 3 in bd?
Title: Re: T&G Knifes
Post by: Ljohnsaw on May 09, 2024, 10:31:12 AM
I tried but can't figure it out.  I got a PDF attachment from MoldingKnives.com on the proposed design.  It is a single blade with a double profile.  It gets mounted in the holder that fits on the spindle.  You add or remove spacers above/below to adjust the height.

The tongue/groove is 0.313" deep by 0.313" tall.  The only flaw I see in the proposed set is they both are designed to cut with the face up.  I'd think you would need one up/one down so the wide knive can plane both sides of the board.
Title: Re: T&G Knifes
Post by: Dewey on May 13, 2024, 03:30:11 PM
Contact W.M. Moore Profiles
They build knives per my Drawings..
Great company to deal with
Title: Re: T&G Knifes
Post by: scsmith42 on May 15, 2024, 01:23:40 AM
Quote from: Ljohnsaw on May 09, 2024, 12:30:43 AMI picked up an MP200 two sided planer for my cabin project. I need to make T&G for my floors, roof and walls. The floors and roof will be out of 2x pine stock an the walls out of 1x incense cedar.

I'm thinking of having one set of knives made with a double T&G. Full height for the 2x and drop down for the 1x.

Is there folly in this plan?
I have some sets of knives like this (made by W. Moore profiles recommended by Dewey above).  In my instance I'm using them as side spindles in a 6 head moulder. 

But I'm baffled as to how you would mould a T&G profile with a 2 sided planer.  Wouldn't you need a 3 sided planer as a minimum to put a groove on one edge of the board?  I get how a tongue could be profiled using top and bottom heads, but how do you profile a groove?
Title: Re: T&G Knifes
Post by: Ljohnsaw on May 15, 2024, 10:09:06 AM
So a flat knife is on the top. Spindle on the left. First pass does the tongue and top surface. Run all the stock through.

Swap spindle knife for groove, flip all stock over and "bottom" gets planed along with the other edge.

It would be cool to add a second side spindle to get three sides done in one pass...
Title: Re: T&G Knifes
Post by: Ljohnsaw on May 15, 2024, 03:17:50 PM
So I called and talked to them. My idea won't work directly. Their method would be to have the groove be on the top for both passes and only the top surface would be planed. You rotate the stock keeping the top up. That insures a perfect match . If I want the backside planed, that would be a third pass. Nope

If I flip one knife so the V is on the bottom, that would work. You roll the stock. Top up for the tongue , top down for the groove. However, you can't lower the 2" knife enough to make 1" stock with the V groove on top. That's with my custom knifes.

So, I'm just going to get two sets. One for 1" and one for 2".
Title: Re: T&G Knifes
Post by: Ljohnsaw on May 16, 2024, 06:45:50 PM
So a question for an expert, @YellowHammer !

I'll be planing 12-16' 2"x8"s. This planer comes with a whopping 17.5" infeed table 🫤.  There is an optional 48" table that can be used for infeed or outfeed. Not cheap at $415 each. I have several portable roller tables but past comments say a flat table is preferred over rollers, at least on the infeed, IIRC. Yes? If these would be good for both in and out, I'll probably buy one and fab the other. It has some special linkages to keep it level and supported as you raise and lower the table. I have materials to make a copy.
Title: Re: T&G Knifes
Post by: Southside on May 16, 2024, 10:08:46 PM
My moulder and planer each have a 14' infeed and 14' outfeed table, skate rollers for 10' and pipe rollers for 4' closest to the machine.  Life is a whole lot easier when you can drop a 16' piece of lumber on the infeed and walk away. 
Title: Re: T&G Knifes
Post by: Ljohnsaw on June 10, 2024, 07:32:24 PM
Almost have the knives ordered. Should finalize tomorrow.

On to the next question. Chip removal. The manual calls for 2,000 m³/hr (1,177 CFM). A neighbor just gave me his Delta AP300. It 3/4 hp at 610 CFM rated. I have an AP400 that is 1 HP at 750 CFM rated. Both units have a 4" input. I plan to run venting out into the open.

The MP200 has a 4" side port and a 5" top port. I would run a collector on each port. I was thinking of picking up a Wen DC3401 or DC3474 (3/4 and 1 HP respectively) to use instead of my AP400.

Enough? Thoughts?
Title: Re: T&G Knifes
Post by: customsawyer on June 18, 2024, 12:47:40 PM
I'm not familiar with those blowers so can't offer much advice on them. I know that CFMs are like horse power on equipment and more is better.
On the tables for my planer I use about a 3' pipe roller for the infeed and 10' for the outfeed. I set the infeed table at a little bet of a angle to help feed the board towards the fence. Here is a video I made of running some V-Groove paneling.

https://youtu.be/55sCFEhQES4