I realize that we all have different sawing/business profiles and markets but I consider my opening face as the most important cut that I make on any log. The opening face determines the position of every other face opening and ultimately my saw through.
After I load a log, I turn it and give it a good visual looking for foreign stuff as well as what may be good about the log. After turning my opening face up, I determine my targets within that log which may or may not be marked with my crayon. Since piths are generally off-center, I level the log....not the pith.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5663.JPG)
Targets are set and the opening face has been opened. (The camera angle is screwy.)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5664.JPG)
After turning the first time, I will saw down to the width of my intended cants. (Again, camera angle.)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5665.JPG)
After the third face opening and the log has been split into my targeted cants, I add my side support extensions before making this final turn.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5666~0.JPG)
The final turn is made and the extensions prevent the top cant from spilling over the side supports.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5667~0.JPG)
Another view of this final turn.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5668~0.JPG)
The final turn has been safely made.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5669~0.JPG)
The extensions are removed and the side supports are completely lowered for the saw through.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5670.JPG)
There was a swell on this end so the first pass was 3 slabs.
I like the description and pictures but I am usually sawing single boards/cants instead of multiple cants so I do a similar technique and in some cases my cant may only be squared in the middle with rounding on one or both sides and the first couple of flitches on each side of the cant require edging. This allows me to get some extra wide boards out of the middle if that is what the customer wants.
"The Opening Face" would make a great title for a sawing opinion column by Magicman😊
I'd be willing to publish that here! ffcool
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on May 10, 2024, 10:39:32 AMbut I am usually sawing single boards/cants instead of multiple cants
Me too Howard. This was just a perfect example for multiple cants with a nice top end log and the proper cut list. Actually this was the 4th log on this job where I could do this so I finally decided to take pictures. A video would have been nice. ffsmiley
It was also a perfect example to show the side support extensions which also are very valuable when turning large, knotty, and mis-shaped logs. :thumbsup:
Lynn,
It is also a good example of how to keep your off-bearers really humping to keep up! ffcheesy ffcheesy
Nice work MM! I like your extra side support idea. Looks like that LT40 has seen a ton of use. How many hours on it total now?
That LT40 had sawn over one million bf before I bought it so it's over 4 million now. It is wearing it's 4th engine and hour meter so the sawmill should have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20K hours on it.
Any and all upgrades that Wood-Mizer has added, I have ordered and done the same. It's on it's second and final Setworks because that vintage of Setworks is no longer supported. If/when it dies I will have to go with either Accuset2 or a Mikron aftermarket unit.
Good logs make good lumber. You have a lot of good logs to saw. Sometimes I feel like we are trying to get butter from a duck with the stuff folks bring us. We've been buying logs lately. The logs I go pick up are a lot better than the ones they are delivering. We are paying for the logs and delivery. I'll scale the last two loads delivered tomorrow and I'll probably hurt some feelings due to heart rot and big knots.
This afternoon John and I sawed some cypress for a repeat customer. We pulled these logs out of the pond on Monday afternoon, after the hickory custom sawing. some of these have been in there for years and the wood looks and saws like it would if we sawed it the day it was cut down. It does take a little effort to extract them.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/IMG_8217.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353758)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/IMG_8218.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353757)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/IMG_8219.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353756)
Our wimpy dust collector kept up with the dry logs but quickly plugged up while sawing the ones extracted from the pond. I do love sawing cypress.
Red oak and pine tomorrow.
Kyle that is beautiful lumber. We have a house that was sided with Cypres when it was built in 1991, when we were looking it over before buying it I realized that ain't SYP clapboard. It needs paint, but the wood is absolutely perfect and looks like it was sawn today.
I agree about the joy of sawing Cypress because of the beauty of the wood grain.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN2041.JPG)
It is amazing, but the sawdust is "clingy" and will clog the sawdust chute.
Today's Cypress is a "catch 22" situation. Some folks think that they can put it up untreated/unsealed and it will last forever. Splash-up or any wood that is exposed to constant moisture will rot.
Jeeze Louise! You must be prescient.... Thanks for sharing and taking the time to post some pics! Us rookies need the simple stuff explained like we're 5th graders. ffcheesy
I cut up 2 logs yesterday and just couldn't get a clear 'vision' of what I wanted to do with them sitting on the mill. After 20 minutes of pretending I knew what I was thinking, I said "just open it up and see what you got!"
I can usually identify a 'bad' area on a log that's going to need to come off, or maybe just truing up one-side of the log gives me that initial cut.... But you're absolutely right the 'opening face' is so important. And looking at a log I do not have the ability to 'see' the cant or finished boards. Once I get into a log and see some grain, and where else I needed to knock off edges, I am better able to decide how to saw up the cant. However looking at a round (crooked) log w/o having a cut-list from a customer it's hard to know what to do? You can make anything out of the log, but what's the best way to use THIS particular log (if you don't have a customer telling you what they want)?
I've been watching some of
@YellowHammer 's videos which are quite helpful, but then I load a log and stand there at the mill and... crickets. I have 2 (alleged) walnut logs I'm holding off on, because... dunno What to do with them!
Thanks again for sharing the pics and the thought process as it progressed. I've started sawing logs one way, and switched to a different layout after my 2nd cut and can see the 2 perpendicular sides.
- K
Magicman, you don't have any issues, excessive bow or twist out of your center boards with the pith not centered ? I know you saw mostly framing lumber, not grade Lumber. I just wonder if I'm wasting time on that step ?
I make absolutely no attempt to pith center anything on the saw through and the center boards are of no concern. Some may tend to bow so sticker them with the bow up and they will be OK. I very seldom have boards with crook. Yes, I am sawing framing lumber so bow is easily dealt with during construction.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0619.JPG)
As seen here, the center two 2X4's may bow. The top one upward and the lower one downward. Just sticker them accordingly.
I always have a cut list so my decision is how to utilize the next log on the deck. I always establish a target rather than just start sawing. I think of it as a roadmap. I know where I am and where the destinations is. My target establishes the route that I will take to reach that destination.
I have no concern whatsoever about how much time I spend sawing a customer's logs. This mindset allows me to use the crayon when necessary to level the log and to make a few marks outlining my target.
I often have customers to remark how the blade hit a red mark that had been made prior to turning a log a couple of times. Those red mark hits are visible in a couple of the pictures above. To me it was nothing unusual, I just hit my target.
MM,
IRT the Roadmap comment I am sure you also find when you open a log sometimes there are "detour" signs because of new information that you find when you get inside and you just have to adjust accordingly :sunny:
Well I had to search IRT to find out whether I had done a bad thing!! :wink_2:
Yes, on rare occasions I may have to make an adjustment and maybe make side lumber or a different width from one cant, etc.
I am happy with Lemonade. ffsmiley
Concerning the opening face I sometimes let the customer determine that for me.
A. When the log has been laying on the ground, I try and get rid of the mud section as soon as possible and not have my blade sawing into it.
B. When the log has butt flare and there is only one way to orient the log on the bed so the mast will get by without having to use a chainsaw for clearance.
C. When the branch stubs are such that the options are limited as to how to saw without spending a lot of time pruning a tree (YH ism). One time I had the offbearer hold a block of wood between the tree and the log stop to get the tree far enough to be able to run the saw down the length. After the first pass there was no more problem.
Sometimes you have to be creative with what the customer desires sawed.
GAB
We do not make the rules, that is the log's job, but generally speaking; sawing through from either the hump or horn faces will yield lumber that will tend to bow which is OK for framing lumber.
Sawing through from the side will generally yield lumber that will tend to crook instead of bow. That lumber can be edged to remove the crook and is desired/required for woodworkers building furniture, cabinets, etc.
Again, your opening face and turning sequence will determine whether the lumber that you produce will tend to bow or crook.
YH has a most excellent video detailing log setup and the sawing sequence for producing high quality furniture grade lumber.
Quote from: Magicman on May 10, 2024, 09:18:35 PMThat LT40 had sawn over one million bf before I bought it so it's over 4 million now. It is wearing it's 4th engine and hour meter so the sawmill should have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20K hours on it.
Any and all upgrades that Wood-Mizer has added, I have ordered and done the same. It's on it's second and final Setworks because that vintage of Setworks is no longer supported. If/when it dies I will have to go with either Accuset2 or a Mikron aftermarket unit.
Unreal Lynn! Very impressive. All Kohler's, or are you running diesels ?
All Lombardini Diesels but their performance has been less than impressive. Two died with broken crankshafts, one developed an internal knock and was replaced rather than rebuilt, and thankfully the 4th is running well.
Sorry to hear that Lynn. My folks had an old Lombardini generator years ago. It was still running at 30k hours. Valve adjustments and oil changes was the extent of all the maintenance.
I have not heard anything negative about the new Yanmars carried by WM. Time will tell when mine arrives.
My present Lombardini, which was listed at 38 hp, is the only non-turbo that has been on my sawmill. It is a sweet running engine but it does not have the grunt that the turbo had.
I am hopeful that I never have to make another engine change.
Nice write up!
Because of you, this is always what I try to do. I'm fully in the 'hooks to the right' and roll 90 degrees camp as I've found an approach like yours produces better lumber and frankly, more quickly (less rolling and messing around) than other approaches I've tried.
Of course, I'm a rooky still ;) and have much to learn but what you describe is what I learned from you several years ago and what I continue to try to do.
:thumbsup:
When I am sawing timbers, I almost always turn 180° after the first face opening. It seems easier for me and also easier to prevent leaving wain on the timbers. It does add another step edging flitches from two faces but then there is no edging on the other two faces, so it balances out.
That makes sense. I've also done 180 when I know I've got to sneak out some wider boards from the middle.
I do like seeing how MM and others set up their sawing patterns,
I can see why they do it that way, but it's different to how we would achieve a similar result with a swing blade. The 2X boards we both cut would similar.
MM's method is probably the best if your cur list is 2" x 4"s That's about the max recovery for the least work. But other logs / cut lists vary things. Grade sawing for example means you take the best grade boards off each face, and rotate the cant as needed. That's because a clear hardwood board is worth a LOT more than a knotty one. But if your cut list is for 2x, then that's what you aim for. The ones near the pith won't be great, juvenile wood and all that, but any build needs random shorts. A good builder will pick these lower grade boards for less critical areas.
Quote from: Ianab on May 14, 2024, 06:00:21 AMThe ones near the pith won't be great, juvenile wood and all that,
Sadly, most if not all lumber yard framing lumber comes from "chip and saw" logs so it contains much juvenile wood.
Quote from: Ianab on May 14, 2024, 06:00:21 AMI can see why they do it that way, but it's different to how we would achieve a similar result with a swing blade.
As a new Lucas Mill owner, I was hoping this discussion might include swing blade operations as well.
I would love for someone (Ianab?) to do a post similar to Lynn's about how to work through a log with a swinger.
Absolutely add it here. This is about face openings, and not necessarily bandsaws.
Quote from: Magicman on May 14, 2024, 07:49:48 AMQuote from: Ianab on May 14, 2024, 06:00:21 AMThe ones near the pith won't be great, juvenile wood and all that,
Sadly, most if not all lumber yard framing lumber comes from "chip and saw" logs so it contains much juvenile wood.
Construction lumber doesn't need to be perfect, it needs to be "good enough". Most sold locally is machine graded for strength only, and builders have to use the higher grade wood for critical things like roof trusses. Wall studs are less critical, and "good enough" can be used for those. If building with log run lumber, some boards will be better than others. A good builder should be keeping that in mind and roughly grading the wood as it's used.
Quote from: panhandle on May 14, 2024, 08:02:07 AMI would love for someone (Ianab?) to do a post similar to Lynn's about how to work through a log with a swinger.
I haven't got a photo sequence on hand, but I can walk though the steps I would use, given MM's log and cut list. I'm more often mixing things up, and cutting what's best produced from the log, once I see inside it.
But before the opening cut I would get the log set up on the bunks, approx pith level. I keep some shim boards that I can stick under the small end bunk, depending on the amount of taper. Don't spend all day trying to get it exact, eye-o-meter is fine.
Once the log is set up and chocked in place, skim the top layer off. If I need stickers, that's a place to cut them. Skim the bark off, drop 1", and cut some 1x1 sticks until you have a proper open face. Otherwise, just slab it off a bit deeper.
Once I can get my fist 2x4, saw that (or maybe 2). At this point I'm sawing 2 down x 4 across. Reason is that then any knots are in the wide face of the 2x, so a medium size knot isn't going to ruin the board. A 1" knot going across a 2x4 greatly weakens it, while a 1" knot in the 4" face is probably fine.
So in this log, it would be 2 or 3 "layers" of boards, and then we are getting close to the pith. Switch to 4" drop and 2" wide, and run across the log like that. This is basically the same as MM's middle slice. There are going to be some low grade wood around the pith, it may still be usable, or it may be firewood, depending on the species. But you have to saw it out anyway.
Then for the last 1/3 it's back to 4" wide, and 2" deep. Carry on until you run out of log.
But that would only be my plan for this scenario. Sometimes I'm going to cut some clear 1" boards, flat or quarter sawed depending, and some 2" from the knotty areas, then maybe flip the lower 1/3 of the log to get a live edge slab. Lots of options, and you aren't locked into even keeping the same plan once you start the log.
Thanks for sharing
@IanaB ! I can stare at a log on the ground for 5 minutes and I think I know what I'm going to do with it. Put it on the bunks, and I can't imagine what I was thinking. Then I make the first cut and ask what I was smoking!? ffcheesy
I do very little planning before the log is on the sawmill bed. Sweep that was not obvious becomes very obvious as you turn the log and then you can examine the defects and make a decision how they can be best utilized or eliminated.
I will turn, level, and use my crayon to establish my targets as shown before I make that first face opening.
MM, Let's not forget that you've been doing this for a little bit longer than most of us. I'm like NewYankeeSawmill, but not quite as patient. After two or three minutes, I'm thinking, "What would MagicMan do?".
Sometimes you just saw that sucker, recover whatever it has to offer, and then move on the the next one.
Remember that you can not make chicken pie out of chicken poop. I have told many customers that many times. Bad logs make bad/marginal lumber and that is the best that you can do.
Your joy is sawing the good ones. :thumbsup:
I'm still a noob compared to you grizzled old veterans, but I have taken to planning cuts to make sure I get the best cuts I can. I really love quartersawn, but you gotta plain saw to get them wide boards. I do have projects where I select logs that will give me the best results. Being a manual mill, every extra turn of the log or cant adds up.
Most crooked logs are just firewood to me unless they have a pretty good diameter. Then they become building project wood as the wood grain patterns are a bit off.
The times I level the pith is on the straight logs and I am going for quartersawn and/or a post with the pith centered. I do like Ianab's methods and to always be on the lookout for a cut that can make stickers.
Everything depends upon the customer's cut list.
It is a very normal option to get 3, 4, etc. wide QS boards from the center. Remove them and then saw the remainder into whatever it yields as per the cut list.
The opening face will be whatever comes off of the top with the log's pith level to the sawmill bed.
I have a many times repeat customer that I will saw within the next couple of weeks that wants nothing but QS, and nothing means nothing.