Watched a Hobby Hardwood YouTube on how to deal with stress in a log. Wanted to post a picture of what I learned. If you happened to have seen the video you will recognize it.
That's a great image, making very flat wood from a log with lots of stress. When it dries, you can put a straight edge on it and have high value, dead flat, straight lumber.
I have heard really good things about that Hobby Hardwood guy, I think some of the folks here may know him personally, but as I understand it, Chip, his dog is the real brains of the outfit. Or maybe Martha.
They say he is even taller and more good looking in person.
Anyway, great job!
I hope he is better looking in person, pictures don't do him much justice😁
I'll bet you could hear the groan coming out of Manitoba all the way down there in Alabama!
or...
@WV Sawmiller is ghost-writing for YH?
Quote from: YellowHammer on June 04, 2024, 10:14:07 PMThat's a great image, making very flat wood from a log with lots of stress. When it dries, you can put a straight edge on it and have high value, dead flat, straight lumber.
I have heard really good things about that Hobby Hardwood guy, I think some of the folks here may know him personally, but as I understand it, Chip, his dog is the real brains of the outfit. Or maybe Martha.
They say he is even taller and more good looking in person.
Anyway, great job!
If you watch the video you would agree Martha and Chip are in charge but not the good looking part but he sure knows his stuff about milling. Seriously, thanks for the videos. I have learned tons from you and so many others in this group.
Yeah - keep it up, I look forward to the videos Robert.
Anyone else notice how stressed out Chip gets?... running-doggy
Chip has other ways of relieving his stress. :thumbsup:
Poor ol' Chip was playing around in the backyard and skidded out and slammed into a brick step, got cut open on his leg, and got 7 staples. He's on meds now, not feeling any stress at all.
Did you just write that or is Howard now your screenwriter?? ffcheesy
I thinks that's pretty cruel and disrespectful to make snide and hurtful comments to folks when a beloved family member has been injured and is rekooperatin. You know the whole fambly is hurtin right along with ol Chip. :veryangry:
Robert, I hope ol Chip mends up real quick and complete. I look forward to seeing him investigation a sawdust pile and climbing up on the log pile again. :thumbsup:
Actually it was meant to be respectful and complimentary. :thumbsup: ffcheesy
Sorry to hear about Chip. Guess Martha will have to spend twice as much time keeping you in line now.
Chip is da bomb!!!
Prayers for a speedy recovery.
He must have seen an intruder and went into stealth/kill mode!! ffcheesy ffcheesy
Doc
Chip was playing with my daughter's new puppy, chasing around the yard, and Chip, who can run like a greyhound, skidded out at top speed on the wet grass, and slammed into the bricks like a NASCAR hitting turn 3. A pretty good impact.
His arm got split open, no bones broken and peeled back like skinning a squirrel. So a few staples later, he's milking it like the movie star he is, with meals in bed, lounging around, watching the Pet Channel on TV for the next couple week until the staples come out.
Yikes !!! Looks like RR tracks. :shocked2:
Poor Chip :veryangry: Does he have to wear a collar to prevent him from chewing on the wound?
Get well soon Chip!
No, Chip doesn't have to wear a collar, if he gets to licking it, we put a bandage on it, but the vet said it was best to leave it open to the air.
It is aggravating Chip that he can't go swimming, we go to the pond pretty much every day in the summer, but we have had to cut that out because he wants to jump in and swim around.
So now he just mopes around and tells me what I'm doing wrong with the mill.
Luckily you can't keep a good dog down. heal up fast ,buddy!
That is quite a cut.
Poor Chip: now he'll have to spend the work day laying on the UTV seat... ffcheesy
I feel for Chip, and Robert and Martha for having to deal with keeping him healing well.
I also appreciate the videos, i have rewatched them several times and am learening as i try to apply the principles.
I was cutting some white oak for a friends trailer and managed to get some of the boards to crook instead of bow :wacky:
I can honestly say I have not forgotten to lower my toeboard.............................only because its a small piece of board I edge under the log.
they fall out when I roll the log.
Thanks, I appreciate all the well wishes for Chip and I appreciate people watching the videos.
Lumber stress, and how to deal with it, is well known and talked about a good deal on this Forum, but in the non Forum world, it's amazing how many sawyers have no clue about it. I know because we get customers who have gotten local sawyers to mill their wood which ends up looking like a boat propeller. The customers get upset, do internet searches and then watch some of my videos and come in to tell me they had no idea, and neither did the guy sawing their logs.
The most common phrase people are told by sawyers when their logs are turned into McDonalds arches is "the wood is just gonna do what the wood wants to do." Nope.
Once again, I ask that everyone pardon my ignorance, but how do you know the log has stress in it? Is it just because it's not straight? Compression on the inside of the curve and tension on the outside? If I cut it down, I could figure out where the stress is, but what about the log that shows up, and I know nothing about it's history. I admit to being one of those who have said the wood is gonna do what it wants. Because I didn't know any better. I still don't, but hope to change that very soon.
Due to my low data limit, I'm not able to watch many videos. But, my best wishes go to Chip. Good luck keeping him on the couch until he heals.
My limited experience, almost all wood has stress. The key is learning to recognize and deal with it. About THAT I still have much to learn.
Doc
Quote from: Digger Don on June 06, 2024, 10:14:47 AMI ask that everyone pardon my ignorance, but how do you know the log has stress in it?
I see no ignorance in your very legitimate question. We all have fairly different markets so we handle the stress to better accommodate our customer's cut list whether that customer is ourselves or another person.
Mine is certainly different from virtually everyone else because 90%+ of my sawing is SYP for framing lumber. That being said, I can accept bow but not crook, so I almost always saw through from either the hump or horn faces of a log. Yes, some logs have sweep on more than one face, so I look, turn, saw, and move one to the next log. Opening Face LINK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=124591.msg2033755#msg2033755)
As you are sawing, and if you look closely, you will see the boards react during the cut in different ways. Some will lift off the cant like a carrot peel, those will have stress in the face plane and will not dry flat, but will dry straight along the edge plane, such as needed for dimensional lumber where all the edges of the boards need to be straight to not have a floor that looks like the waves on the ocean.
If during sawing, the boards lay flat but flex sideways, as shown on the OP picture, those boards have stress in the edge or shear plane direction, and will dry flat on their faces which is optimal for high grade furniture wood. Looking at the picture, you can see that the boards have
a considerable amount of stress as their edges have flexed sideways a pretty long way, like stair steps, but are still laying dead flat. It is a great example of identifying stress when sawing, and then putting that stress on one pane only to make very flat wood.
Some techniques intentionally force the stress in one plane such as when quarter sawing.
The worst stress orientation is a board that is sawn where the stress is not oriented in one plane only, which causes twist and makes the board bad for both dimensional and furniture lumber. Basically, the worst of both worlds and sometimes called a boat or airplane propeller.
Identifying lumber stress real time when sawing, and then being able to manipulate that stress to the desired plane is one of the most important skills a Sawyer can learn in my opinion.
It's not really that hard to identify stress, but it is a subtle thing, and people may saw for decades and never notice the signs, then the lightbulb goes off and they can never "not see it." It's one of the things I harp on in my videos, because it is so important.
Would it be safe to say that if the log looks like a ")" as it sits on the mill, that's how the lumber will look if you saw from the top down? For the purpose of this question, I'm not turning the log at all, just sawing from top to bottom.
If I'm understanding MM, by sawing the horn or the hump, the boards will be much easier to straighten when used. The boards will rise up, rather than sliding sideways, as in the OP. Correct?
Quote from: Magicman on June 06, 2024, 01:00:20 PMQuote from: Digger Don on June 06, 2024, 10:14:47 AMI ask that everyone pardon my ignorance, but how do you know the log has stress in it?
I see no ignorance in your very legitimate question. We all have fairly different markets so we handle the stress to better accommodate our customer's cut list whether that customer is ourselves or another person.
Mine is certainly different from virtually everyone else because 90%+ of my sawing is SYP for framing lumber. That being said, I can accept bow but not crook, so I almost always saw through from either the hump or horn faces of a log. Yes, some logs have sweep on more than one face, so I look, turn, saw, and move one to the next log. Opening Face LINK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=124591.msg2033755#msg2033755)
Magicman, I have a lot of SYP and access to much more I would like to make dimensional out of. How do you deal with all the sap? I have stopped cutting it because it just mucks the blade up too fast and makes waves.
I see that you are in Jacksonville and are probably sawing more Slash and Longleaf than I do. Mine is mostly Shortleaf with some Loblolly. I still use 2 oz of original (light green jug) liquid Cascade per gallon of water and have very little problem.
Longleaf sap is sticky, runny, and miserable to deal with. Of the few times that I have sawed it, I had to squirt the blade with Diesel after each pass. Longleaf logs are much better to deal with after they have been felled for about 6 months and the logs have aged, bark slipped, and the sap hardened. Even then some individual LL logs are miserable to deal with. I actually prefer to saw all SYP logs after they have aged for a few months.
@caveman saws a good bit of Longleaf and I believe that he has converted his LubeMizer over to Diesel.
Slash and Longleaf do seem to saw better after sitting for a month or so (about when the bark begins to slip). The slash pine we have been buying lately is the sappiest we've ever sawn. We are planning to cobble up a "lubemizer" type apparatus using pumps and solenoids. The gravity fed blade lube and the spray bottle have not been cutting it lately with this slash pine and the live oak we've been sawing. I'm spending way too much time cleaning blades prior to sharpening.
Somebody, send me some rain.
I am sending all the rain we have, but Magic Man is between here and you. He may have to relay it for me.
I love sawing Loblolly when the bark starts falling off.
Thanks to Roberts video's, and trail and a lot of errors
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/65100/stress_sideways.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=354249)
This log had a considerable bow to it, a couple inches of taper and more knots than I thought.
My opening face was like Magicman and took the horns off. I then squared up to a cant and when I started cutting boards I saw a bow.
So I rolled it 90 and got this result, a very visible side shift. what was really interesting when i got to the last cut the board shifted the opposite direction.
Thanks to People here I am getting better, Maybe I'm making less designer firewood. ffcheesy
Well, that's a lesson learned. When typing a quick reply, don't go back to a previous page. All gone. smiley_thumbsdown
I was wondering if there is a way to identify the stress before putting it on the mill. (See post # 26.) Assuming (I know, I shouldn't do that) that the log is not turned at all, just sawed from top to bottom, is it correct that the lumber will take the same curve the log had?
YH: Is Chip back to his full time supervision role, yet?
In my experience, any grain you saw through that is not parallel to the cut, will move. For a couple of examples of what I mean, if I have logs that have a large root flare that I saw through, the boards will follow the shape of that flare because the grain turns and follows the shape of the outside of the tree. Same thing with a bowed log, when you saw straight through it you are cutting across the grain and the board will follow that shape.
Some large mills have "curve saws" that saw through curved logs basically parallel to the bark. I've never watched one, but guys that have told me the lumber comes out of them laying flat.
This is a good animation of how a curve sawing line works-
https://youtu.be/tnQKhCV5jRg?si=H6zJMSDz6Hyn3Dc0
Thanks, barbender. I think you confirmed what I was thinking. That video was interesting, but I don't think I'll be buying one of those any time soon. Don
No, me either! But it illustrates the solution industry has come up with to get maximum recovery out of logs that have sweep in them, without introducing even more stress into the lumber.
Somewhat related to this topic is my policy of never releasing the clamp when I turn the cant to the final face. I make sure the cant is laying flat on the bed rails and clamp it securely below the height of my last board/cut and then I saw to the bed.
I used to release the clamp when the cant 4-5 inches thick and stand my flitches next to the cant for edging. I found often the cant sometimes had stress and would raise up slightly with the extra weight removed and I could never get the cant back flat on the rails which ruined at least one board making it thick and thin. Now I saw the cant into boards and leave the last 3-4 boards on the bed and stand the flitches next to stack of boards and edge against them. I get the same rigidity with a stack of same width boards as a solid cant.
Today, I did something quite different than I normally do. I normally saw logs into odd numbers of cants when breaking them down. This week, I had an order for 4' 2x4's. While sawing small logs this morning, I busted them up into two cants instead of one and a lot of edging. The short 2x4's finished up relatively straight, which was good enough for what we were sawing. According to Mediocrates, it was A Okay.
I see folks out west doing this all the time with Douglas Fir, but SYP is a different animal.
A slightly different variation:
There are times when the customer wants both 2X4's and 2X6's. It's fairly easy to target the pith centered with the 6's and the 4's will be OK making two cants. This strategy will work with various combinations of framing lumber with two or three cants.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 13, 2024, 11:07:00 AMSomewhat related to this topic is my policy of never releasing the clamp when I turn the cant to the final face. I make sure the cant is laying flat on the bed rails and clamp it securely below the height of my last board/cut and then I saw to the bed.
I used to release the clamp when the cant 4-5 inches thick and stand my flitches next to the cant for edging. I found often the cant sometimes had stress and would raise up slightly with the extra weight removed and I could never get the cant back flat on the rails which ruined at least one board making it thick and thin. Now I saw the cant into boards and leave the last 3-4 boards on the bed and stand the flitches next to stack of boards and edge against them. I get the same rigidity with a stack of same width boards as a solid cant.
Howard,
I thought you were doing it the latter way all the time. I learned from you to edge up against already cut boards from you. Guess I was doing it wrong, which is right now! ffcool
Quote from: Machinebuilder on June 06, 2024, 07:36:40 AMI feel for Chip, and Robert and Martha for having to deal with keeping him healing well.
I also appreciate the videos, i have rewatched them several times and am learening as i try to apply the principles.
I was cutting some white oak for a friends trailer and managed to get some of the boards to crook instead of bow :wacky:
I can honestly say I have not forgotten to lower my toeboard.............................only because its a small piece of board I edge under the log.
they fall out when I roll the log.
When I saw trailer decking, I prefer bow over crook. The customer is going to be bolting it down. The sun is going to be beating down on one side, thus the green lumber will want to move anyway. The crook is harder for the customer to get to fit in the trailer. The bow they can push down, even if they have to use a piece of equipment.
Quote from: customsawyer on March 13, 2025, 05:58:31 AMThe crook is harder for the customer to get to fit in the trailer. The bow they can push down, even if they have to use a piece of equipment.
True, But the part about using a piece of equipment to push it down is over the top. ffcheesy ffcheesy
When sawing framing lumber, I always favor bow over crook. Saw through from either the hump or the horn face.
I will never release the clamp to edge flitches after beginning the saw through. To do so is asking for and receiving what you asked for. :uhoh:
If I find some of my boards have crook, I tell everyone that I did that deliberately to help increase air flow through the stack while drying. ffcheesy
Those crooked boards are for river table customers. If anyone says something about them.
Crooked logs make crooked lumber. ffcheesy :wink_2: