The Forestry Forum

Poll ends 6-19-05

I'm talking about cars and trucks, not necessarily your other equipment.

All the time!
Rule for riding with me: no belt, get out!

Don't feel right without it.  Sorta like I forgot to zip my fly feeling.

It's law in BC to wear them with stiff fines if caught without wearing a seatbelt.I still never bothered for a long time until someone pointed out that if I was ever in an accident with my kids in the car(always belted),wouldn't it be better if I could unbuckle and help them safely out of the truck instead of having them see me fly out the windshield and bleed out.

It was a eye opener.

I wear mine on the highway but never around town, someday I will be fined :-[

Defensive driving will save your life a lot less stressfully than slamming into a seatbelt.

funny thing, I never put them on when driving the f250. I always put them on when driving the car. Aint that something. Well Iv'e always been a little mixed up.

Sprucegum,
Things happen!
No matter how defensive you drive.

All the time.  I like to have natural selection working in my favor.

You've got that right Furby.

When we were bringing Lucy home from the hospital when she was 3 days old,I was driving as defensively as possible but had an oncoming car sliding on the ice across into our lane. I slowed down but then had to floor it and drive off the road to avoid a head on collision.

He still managed to take the front drivers fender,both doors including the doorpost and half the box off of the crewcab.

The look on the guys face as he went past my window was priceless  :D

We always do. If I ever happen to forget, which is rare, I get reminded. As does anyone else in my vehicles. We drilled it in the kids to the point where they were the ones that were reminding us. Now, its like furby mentions.

When my wife was hit head on in a snow storm by a driver who crossed into her lane I saw the light. That was in 1991. She had her seatbelt on and that was the only thing that saved her, she was hurt real bad and the car looked like noone could have survived, but her and I both wear them ALL of the time since that. I used to do it about 40-50% before the accident 8) 8).

Same as what Furby said.
EZ

Having responded to numerous Vehicl Accidents I can tell you, if you dont wear your seatbelt your nuts.  I have seen more "arond town" car accidents with MAJOR injuries than you can imagine. 

The other side that most may not be aware of is Insurance.  MOST insurance companies WILL NOT cover you if yoru in an accident and did not have your seatbelt on.  They may fix the car but your medical stuff may be left in your lap. 

Some have it written that way in the policy coverage, which few people read, or they use the "Law Violation" clause found in most policies, meaning if your injured because you did not comply with the law they are not obligated to pay. 

Dont be stupid!  Come home to your family.  Click-it! 

I dont start the engine without mine on.
Doesn't matter how defensively you drive... how carefull is the other guy???

On Thursday I passed an accident on the road, someone had run off a relatively straight section of road and 45ft down a bank into a stream.

Found out on Sat what what happened.
My buddy that drives a logging truck was coming home just around dusk when a couple of stray black cattle decide to make a run across the main road. He collected the 2nd one with his loaded truck / trailer and threw it into the path of an oncoming 4wd. The lady in the 4wd quietly driving along minding her own business at 60mph, when a cow comes flying out of nowhere and takes her out. Defensive driving wouldn't have done her any good, seatbelt did. No serious injuries, apart from the cow.

No excuse for not wearing them.

Ian

I always wear mine, but the seatbelt laws really annoy me.

buckle up out there  I lost three friends in highschool that maybe would be around today had they been buckled up, and a seatbelt probably saved my Dad  a few years ago in an accident.

To start with, I always wear mine.  The other day we went to a bad accident that ended with a bronco 2 that had a roof at the level of the hood.  The guy was not wearing his belt and probably would be dead if he was.  He was badly bruised.  I know this is not the norm, but it makes you think. :-\

Almost 20 years I had a car pull in front of me (blind drive way) with a tone truck.  It totaled both rigs.  At the time when ever I went anywhere I almost always drove myself.  When the police got there he asked if I was wearing my seatbelt.  I was and told him so.  When the report was done he offered a ride to work about a mile away.  I got in the cruiser and he started it but did not move.  After a pause he said he could not move the car until I put my belt on. ::) ::)  It was second nature when I started a vehicle but not on that side.  BOY DID I FEEL LIKE AN IDIOT AFTER TELLING HIM I ALWAYS WEAR MY SEATBELT!! :(

Will

but do we really need laws telling you to keep yourself safe?

i wear mine, but its hard when your only on the road for a quarter mile or so. thats when they getcha.

I have the same policy as Furby

I am not against  the wearing of belts.  What I am agianst is the way it has been jammed down the throats of folks that have it as manditory in the various states.  I resent these sorts of issues being dictated.  I know, I know, safety and all when in an accident.  I have awaken on an operating table after the forced totaling of my '66 2 + 2 Mustang, that was only 6 months old.  I was t boned on the passangers side by a 48 years old bar maid without any insurance.   :'(  I was wearing my belt and all.  I still do not like the fact of being forced by statutes, aministrative decisions and board actions.

My wife and I always wear ours.  We had an accident similar to Paul's several years ago during a snow storm when a driver we were meeting lost control and slid into our lane of traffic. We both had fractured ribs. My wife had complete break and the rib punctured a lung. She spent a night in the hospital.  Bad enough, but our injuries would have been much worse if we hadn't both been wearing our seat belts.

I always wear mine too, and feel naked when if I ever realize I've forgotten.  I think a lot of people wear them most of the time, but for that trip up to the corner market, they figure there's no need.  I read a statistic somewhere that the vast majority of accidents occur within a five mile radius of your home.  It's in those short trips that you're most statistically likely to get into a fender bender, so it's just as vital then to wear 'em.  As to the laws requiring us to do it, I don't worry about it, cuz I always wear 'em.   ;)

Don't make a move without it. Accidents always happen when you least expect it.

No click no drive here, been in enough and seen enough to go naked, boys are worse than me, they dont let you move less everybody is ready, regardless of who's car it is ;D



iain

Still training Miss Kathy,
I'll stop the truck in the middle of the road to make my point with her.  Physics is physics can't argue with the laws of nature.  She's getting a lot better about the seat belt.

The funny thing is me backing up the trailer aroud the block to the shop.  I still feel unfonfortable about hopping in with ear plugs (not hearing a thing) but backing up one block without the seatbelt on.

I have a friend that is adament about not wearing a seatbelt, good luck finding one when you ride with him.   I find that I plan "meatings" with him to make sure I have to drive my own vehicle.  I'll go as far as hauling my trailer if need be.

The only wreck I was involed in was a rear-ender.  I sure wish I had a rear end type seat belt (the seat gave way and crumpled my back mid way) Wear your DanG seatbelts.

Quote from: Kirk Allen on June 05, 2005, 09:56:18 PM
Having responded to numerous Vehicl Accidents I can tell you, if you dont wear your seatbelt your nuts.  I have seen more "arond town" car accidents with MAJOR injuries than you can imagine. 

The other side that most may not be aware of is Insurance.  MOST insurance companies WILL NOT cover you if yoru in an accident and did not have your seatbelt on.  They may fix the car but your medical stuff may be left in your lap. 

Some have it written that way in the policy coverage, which few people read, or they use the "Law Violation" clause found in most policies, meaning if your injured because you did not comply with the law they are not obligated to pay. 

Dont be stupid!  Come home to your family.  Click-it! 

Sometimes I buy gas at a convenience store that is about 0.3 miles from where I work.  I put my seat belt on even to go that little distance.  A few years ago, a woman was killed in an accident right in front of that store. :'( :'(

In 1969 I worked for a company where seat belt use was mandatory.
We drove lots of miles under all conditions. Had a rollover in a pickup truck. My coworker and I walked away with out a scratch.  Always believe in them.

My 17 year old son didn't wear his seatbelt on the way to school  a couple months ago. Cost him $1000.00 plus the cost of the ticket. Our insurance program has a deal that if you(new drivers) drive for 3 years without a ticket and chargeable accident, then you get a $1000 bond. I was super ticked twice at him.  Once for being without the belt, and once for losing an easy $1000.00. (My daughter is 1/2 way through the 3 years and I keep reminding them it is safety and money.)  Getting the ticket because of not wearing it once in a 100 times could be the same as having a wreck during that 1 in 100 times.

I agree with Frank that it irks me that the law says do it.  I like the idea of the insurance company with the carrot better.

Our skid steer will not let you start it without your seat belt being buckled. I will not let anyone override the switch. Too much load, do a header, flop out and it won't be pretty.

Every time seatbelt user also...even on the tractor with ROPS.

The laws that require seatbelt usage irritate me to, as it seems like a blow to personal freedom...but than I think it is awful hard for the other driver to keep their vehicle under control if they have been ejected.  Guess I won't protest to much.

Quote from: Cedarman on June 06, 2005, 07:55:22 AM
I agree with Frank that it irks me that the law says do it.  I like the idea of the insurance company with the carrot better.

Except for the fact that the insurance company relies on the law (and law enforcement) in order to make their carrot possible.

Seat belt goes on before the key gets turned.  I have belts in all my vehicles and equipment.  I just don't feel right without it on.

We always have our belts on when riding. I remember when our oldest boy was little and didn't want to buckle up. I was on a side street and when he wasn't paying attention, I slammed on the brakes. He smacked his head on the dash and got all mad at me. I just said, "now you know why I insist on seatbelts in the car"....he always buckeled up after that. I think it was a good way to drive in my point to him.

Hardly ever. I have a hard time with government using the "it saves lives" statement. More lives are saved by better cars and airbags been on the road now. It's a revenue law. Generates money for the state. I've had 13 tickets in 2 years @ 35.00 a pop. Doesn't count as points so I'm not worried about it.
The only person I hurt, not wearing seatbelts, is ME.
If they want to save lives sit outside taverns and sports arenas and catch the DUI's. That kills more people and most of those killed are wearing seat belts.
Do I make passengers wear seatbelts? Yes. Now if I wreck I hurt others.

Where did this soapbox come from that I found myself standing on?   :)

Patty...
Sure you aint got some of the Irish in ya? :D :D :D

We always belt up before starting the vehicle. No exceptions.

Jan had an accident a couple of years ago and wrote off the car.
She was lucky, only a broken sternum from the belt not a broken head from the windscreen or a cheshed chest from the steering wheel.

We always assume that everyone on the road is a complete idiot and have avoided a lot of problems this way.

That youngest boy of mine, who by the way is still grounded with no end in sight at this time, has had 'three' wrecks in the last two years.   Not counting the one time that 'wasn't' his fault, two of them were, and were major.  Once he flipped a pathfinder when he got off the pavement and tried to jerk it back up in the road.  Over it went, scooting down the road flipping sideways and spinning, crossed a ditch and flipped back again, and landed back on it's feet.  Busted ALL the windows out, besides totaling it out.  He walked away without a scratch, undoubtedly due to having his seat belt fastened.

Recently he fell asleep, left the road, and centered a power pole.  About cut it in two, the only thing still holding the pole up was the wires.  Again, totaled out the car.  Walked away, with only one little scratch on his noggin.

I figure if he hadn't a had a seat belt fastened we'd probably have him buried somewhere by now.

As I said, he's STILL grounded and only allowed to drive every once in a while, supervised by ME.  

   I do not like the seat belt law.  I think any one under the age of 18 should have to wear a belt and all small childern should be in a car seat fastened to the seat belt.  If you are over the age of 18 you should have the right to hurt yourself if you wish.   We got rid of the motorcycle helmet law here.  I think all riders over the age of 18 should have the right to deciede if they wish to bust their gourd.  Life jackets are another law that gets me.  Small kids should have to wear one but any one over the age of 18 should have the right to choose weither or not they float.   Natural selection is a good thing.   As for me and mine we buckle, strap and float because it is the right thing to do and not because it is the law.  Laws are good to protect those who do not know better to choose but at some time we have to let people make their own choices.   You get into my truck and do not wish to wear your belt that is fine with me.  I have provided you with one and afforded you with a good example.   The choice is yours.   I do not impose my good sense on you if'n you think you know better.   Hot coffee is hot and seatbelts save lives and life jackets float when you do not.   People have to have the right to live or die as they see fit.  It is not right for me to infringe on their personal right to be dumb.  Just my view from the soapbox.

Quote from: Patty on June 06, 2005, 01:50:14 PM
We always have our belts on when riding. I remember when our oldest boy was little and didn't want to buckle up. I was on a side street and when he wasn't paying attention, I slammed on the brakes. He smacked his head on the dash and got all mad at me. I just said, "now you know why I insist on seatbelts in the car"....he always buckeled up after that. I think it was a good way to drive in my point to him.

Seatbelts are an ALWAYS in my truck.
I have did this to both my kids several times. They may have the belt on but they think that it is okay to lay to the side or be leaning forward with it streched to the max.  Hit the brakes and they olny hit the back of the seat but it did not stick till dad had a bad wreck and the seatblet and airbag saved him. (He T'ed a F-250 with a little Dodge Dakota at 55. Totaled both) Now they listen.
Hate some of the laws too. Indiana past a law that anyone under the age of 8 has to be in a safely seat. My kids were both big enough at that age to fit a seat belt.  Now they are trying to make trucks wear them all because SUV's & vans can get truck plates. I think that they sure make it so that SVU' & mini van can not get truck plates not make everyone wear seltbelts

Quote from: Frank_Pender on June 05, 2005, 11:35:09 PM  I still do not like the fact of being forced by statutes, aministrative decisions and board actions.

here in Quebec whit are general medical care systeme,they clain the fact then we all paying if u get injure in road accident :-\...it make sence in a way :-\

I always wear mine, and 'the law' is but one incentive. The big reason was a 'training session in defensive driving that had a clip on "A place to Live", based on extensive research into wrecked cars that seemed to always have that 'place' to live, if you have a seatbelt on to keep you in that place. That did it for me.

Another idea that I think should work in lieu of a seatbelt law was learned by me several years ago when I was in the State of Maine. At that time (and I don't now what happened to this 'policy' I was told about), I learned from two state workers when we loaded up to go to lunch, that one said "I am buckling up my $100,000 seat belt". I inquired what that was about, and was told the State of Maine would pay to the family, $100,000 if one was killed wearing a seatbelt. I thought that was an ingenious idea, but I have not heard since if this is still a policy, or if it ever really was. Maybe just for State employees.   Anyone know?

This past winter, my wife and I went West and drove our SUV about 8,500 miles in 7 weeks, going through nearly every state west of the Mississippi, except Colorado, Nebraska and North Dakota. While driving some off-road 'roads' in Eastern Arizona, we hit a culvert, or log, or something in the 'trail' that pitched the SUV up when the front wheels hit, and again when the back wheels hit at about 45-50 mph. Everything in the car went to the ceiling (headliner) and slammed back down, breaking bottles and things, including my dear wife, as the seatbelt didn't hold her in the seat. The belt was still fastened when the car was stopped.
She hit the headliner hard, and broke the T-12 vertebrae (compression failure) in her back. After getting her quickly to a hospital 20 miles away, then later that night to Scottsdale, AZ for scheduled back surgery the next morning, we learned a full body back brace was possible, in lieu of surgery but had to be in it 24/7 for three months. She did very well in the brace given the circumstances, and now has a healed vertebrae, and is undergoing PT to get her back muscles back in shape. We were fortunate, but it ended a fantastic trip in a abrupt way.  Still do not know why the seatbelt didn't hold her in place. GM has the information now, and I'm interested in what they will do with it.  We are a bit leary of how the seatbelts will hold if in another accident, although they pass inspection when the GM dealer tests them.  We will continue to wear them, regardless.  :)

It's so second nature now I put the belt on to move the truck from the garage to the driveway....    :D

I wear one on the forklift at my job.  The cage will crush me unless I'm strapped down.  I'm the only one in the whole 600,000 sq ft. building though...   :-\

I wear mine all the time . We taught our kids to wear them when they were young now they put them on as soon as they get in a car . My 19year old son  lost control of his car on a wet road . Went up an embankment ,clipped a tree with the passanger fender then flipped  his car on to the roof. This was the fifth accicent on this road in two hours.  The roof of his dar was only about a foot from the dashboard on the drivers side and smashed clear down to the dash on the passenger side . The ONLY injury he got was scraped knees when he UNBUCKLED his seatbelt and fell onto the roof of the car.
Wear your seatbelt and come home to the people that love you

Patty...
Sure you aint got some of the Irish in ya? Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


Hey Buzz!  Yea, Irish, Scottish and Wales. How'd you guess?   :D

Someone mentioned that we all have right to live and die as we please and I guess I have to agree as long as that "right" doesn't have a very long string of "privilege" attached to it. 

One of the basic flaws in these arguments is that it's assumed that everyone who fails to buckle-up dies immediately at the scene of his/her "accident."  Unfortunately, that just isn't the case, is it?  And guess who gets to help pay the enormous--often leaping into the tens of millions of dollars--expenses for the long-term critical care and/or rehabilitation of the person who demanded the right to go "beltless"? 

A long-ago neighbor, a member of some far-right cult, once explained to me that the way he got out of paying for auto insurance, violating the selt belt laws, etc. was by carrying some form of disclaimer in his glove box which stated that he had the assets--a notarized statement--which equaled any insurance coverage which was mandated by the State at that time.  The note also stated that he'd accept FULL responsibility for any and all damages pursuant to his choice not to do certain things that others of us were required to do, by law.  Now, I'm not going to enter some lengthy legal discourse about these issues; rather, I'm just explaining what the fellow explained to me.  At least he wasn't looking for me to pay for his respirator forever.

I'm a big one for the protection of what very few (if any) personal rights we currently retain but when your "right" to include me in your folly impedes my "right" to remain immune to your personal choices, you then become a burden on my freedom and have violated the social contract, haven't you?  You might believe you have the right to blow the stop signs here in my quiet rural setting but when you deny the local children their right to enjoy a stroll or quiet bike-ride along the clearly marked by-ways, you become the problem, not the solution.

I was raised to believe that with every single "right" we claim comes an awesome amount of responsibilty.  Most folks I've encountered in these last 10-20 years seem to have forgotten the second part of the deal. 

Hey Buzz!  Yea, Irish, Scottish and Wales. How'd you guess?

Cause my dads sir name was O"Houlihan!!!!!!!!!!!
I got one look in your eye and knew it! Those boys never stood a chance ;)

Gunny
If you dont want to pay for an idegent persons respirator...or if the fact that they did not wear a seat belt is the reason for that .......then I suggest you look into changing the laws governing socialized health care that make that situation possible.
Rather than taking the rights of the few, so that the many dont have to pay.
Your argument only works in a collective, socialist society, our nation was not founded that way , but there are a good number that are pushing it hard...this is at the core of this debate.

Buzz-sawyer,

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

In your NON-socialized healthcare system, when a indigent guy comes to the hospital in critical condition from an accident in which he was not wearing a seatbelt, what do you say to him?

"Go back out to the street and die."

I'm just wondering what your solution is.

-Doug

I am not sure I have a good one.
My point was that Gunny said he did not like, or want to pay for non seat belt users on respirators.
  I replied that legislating personal decisions about safety and health was an attack on personal liberty....and that perhaps looking into his right NOT to pay for others health care (which is currently being exploited in his view) would not interfere with others rights.

As far as SOCIALIZED medicine....I think that Christian organizations and other charitable groups would/should fill the gap of government taking care of the people.
I dont believe people do recieve infinite health care for free , only immediate critical care for trauma...by law.
Socialized medicine can be viewed world wide on its own merits waiting in line, government restrictions on what treatment you may or may NOT recieve.....I am not a fan.....for all its faults a free market society, and individual choice are by far my choice

I'm just wondering what your solution is.:) ;)

I always use them. Back over 15 years ago when I lived in CT they passed a law saying you had to wear them. I grumbled but started wearing it.
One day in 1995 on the way home from work a woman rear ended me. I can still remember when she hit the car my face was on its way to the steering wheel. Suddenly I stopped. Yup that DanG seat belt saved my face and me from much more serious injury.
Now its no question I always wear them & insist everyone in my car does too.

   Hate'em,but wear them all the time, unless I disremember,I tends to be a little addleheaded sometimes. Don't like the law requireing them,but that ain't the only law I don't like. Why do I wear them? Spent 10 years in the rescue squad,and the only BODY I ever cut out of a seatbelt hit a propane truck,and exploded

Buzz,

I re-read Gunny's post and got a different take on it.

My solution....
Draw on the successes and failures of the many efforts to provide health care and come up with an intelligent plan for universal health care insurance. I realize that is not a very Republican point of view but sometime the greater good requires sacrifices. Do you object to being required to have proof of insurance to license your car? (rhetorical question) I don't think personal health care should be subject to the whims of charitable organizations.

Here's a  :) just to show this is just a friendly discussion--that I'm not taking myself too seriously in thinking that I have the solution to the problem. Besides I'm more interested in the peak oil problems.  :D

-Doug

Heck Doug
We are just friends chatting here.......... 8) 8) 8) 8)

From my understanding of health care is that the highest cost is in the final six months of life.  Those countries with universal care don't provide "heroic efforts" to sustain life.  Instead, they allow the natural succession of a disease or injury. 

So, with universal care, they wouldn't allow someone to stay on a respirator for a very long time. 

The seatbelt law in my state is a secondary offense.  They can't pull you over for not wearing one, but can ticket you if you are pulled over for something else.  I think its like a $10 fine.

We have plenty of laws that are passed concerning the do's and don'ts of the highway.  They tell us how fast to go, when to stop, which lane to travel in, insurance, and on and on.  The bureaucrats will tell you that driving is a priveldge, not a right.  Since its not a right, they set the rules.

Next thing you know, they'll tell you, you can't talk on a cell phone while driving.   :D

....It is a paradox.
.laws are for the lawless..not the obedient....We need laws to have order, yet wel meaning people do thier job creating laws at the bequest of special interests and constituancy groups....and they pile up higher and higher conflicting with each other and eventually conflicting with good sense and our freedoms..........
we need to have a garage sale every 5 years and sell off all the obsolete and foolish laws.... 8) 8) 8) 8)

After high school I had a 56 chevy. Bought seat belts for it . Been wearing them ever since. Even back the farm lane. Just second nature.
Richard

If you've ever had the privilege of unbuckling your 4 unharmed children who were hanging upside down after dong an end-for-end flip and rolling twice you won't need any convincing! Everything else in the van was all over the road but the people stayed right in their seats.

yet we have to have these laws to tell us how to behave in an automobile.
i think its more of a mindset in some folks, for these i talk of, drive safer with a belt on. might just be the fact they have a belt on, or the fact there is a law, or the fact you can die in a car. whatever it may be, the seatbelt law in ny has saved countless lives.

i just dont like rookie cops pullin me over twenty feet from the farm and givin me the riot act when i got twenty five bales of hay on the back of the truck and 70 blattin cows in the barn

Sparks   you got anyone wife, boy friend, kids, mother, father, brothers, sister, close friends?
any of those type of people get hurt when you die, or are mangled up,and can no longer be  "sparks"

how could Linda exxplain to my boys why i was selfish enough to smack myself up by not wearing a belt, it dont matter if you get drunk, get hit by a drunk, loss control speeding, what ever

i have trouble getting my head round some one who actively rejects the chance of coming home.

And trying to help a young child understand her father "must have fogot" (especialy when he woud'nt even start the car till she was buckled) that trying to explain and the look of disbilef stays with you for ever.

Cleaning up after an accident also stays a long time, hardly any damage to the car, just a smashed windscreen where the passenger went through, what you think is   " i know some one who would have liked this body and wouild have looked after it a bit better" to my mind if your going to waste it at least give some your organs



iain

Iain, The boyfriend statement shows your character so I'll not address that. Maybe your a politically correct type person. I don't drink and never have so we can eliminate that issue. I believe if you drink you have driven under the influence and who is placing risk now. I'd like to see a car with no damed but someone went out the window. Kind of defys physics of motion.

You talk about how you can't understand someone who "actively rejects any chance of coming home". Kind of tells me you never served your country. I did actively and with full knowledge know I may not come home. Was I selfish to leave family, NO. I did actively and had full knowlege when I pulled someone out of a burning house and suffer 3rd degre burns that I might not get out and come home. Was I selfish, NO. I did actively and had full knowleged when I was stabbed twice while stopping a street robbery (he didn't get away) that I might not go home. Was I selfish, NO. Everyday I leave for work I know I might not come home. A seat belt would not change a thing about nothing. 52 years old and never a wreck. The world has been a higher risk because I choose to get involved in wrong rather than be a spectator or a witness. Seatbelts should be a choice. We let womwn kill babies and call it choice. More unborn babies die in a year then are killed in seat belt related deaths. Let's keep it real.

I'd like to ask the we be 'cool' about the discussions. I try not to accuse another of not 'thinking' like I do, nor convince them of doing it 'my way'.  eh?

Each will interpret the use of seatbelts in their own ways, monitored a bit by what ever motivates us to take our chances, just like in so many other dangerous things we do (like picking up a chainsaw). 

Please, keep it calm, cool, and collected. At least I will enjoy reading the discussions better, and others might too.  :)

I can see you all are passionate about wearing your straps....thats fine but its really no ones business except the person strapping in .............., and the local, .............state .............and federal, .............and perhaps international police......... :D :D :D :D
I am suprised more people havent come out with stories of seat belts causing deaths, injuries, and maming.....I have seen all those too.......I have seen where ejections (w/0) belts have SAVED peoples lives........
Air bags can save ya too....but they have also KILLED many people.....
Play the odds how you like....I am not gonna force ya to go either way, and dont WANT to be forced.......
JUST ASK NICELY ;) :D :D :D :D ;)
P.S
Have ya all ever applied the seat belt rational that says,"I dont want to pay tax dollars for your injuries from not wearing a strap"    to riding a motorcycle.......OH, I forgot they(we) MUST wear a skid lid now...
Why not a seat belt...........
My point by the rational I just stated motorcycles should LIKELY be out lawed .cause they are DEFINITELY risky....under the same standard.............HMMMMMMMM those bicycles dont have straps either......lets put our heads together.....and I believe we can find more ways to protect people from life....and save tax dollars............... 8) 8)
I like to pretend I am grown up . and smart enough to make evaluations on risk/vs. pleasure I like my motorcycle........
"Dont tread on me"..Do wear your belts if ya like.........and above all HAVE FUN LIFE IS SHORT 8) 8) 8) 8)

In Pennsylvania it's the seat belt LAW that bewilders me.  I'm driving in a car, surrounded by some kind of metal, with an airbag and the LAW requires that I put on a seatbelt.  In front of me is a motorcycle driver with no helmut.  (PA repealed it's helmut law last year).  If ya think THAT'S odd, the PA Law would fine me $60 if I were unbuckled, but $100 if a child under 12 was unbuckled.....but school buses have no air bag or seat belts.   ???

I dont think ANYONE  has said it makes sense :D :D

Yea, the fine here in Iowa is $50 for no seat belts, too. I don't know what it is for not buckling up the kids.  The no seat belts in the school bus is one that really bothers me, too. Their reasoning is because it would cost too much. Well STOP THE TRAIN AND BACK IT UP A MINUTE! No child has a price too much to pay when it involves his/her safety. I pay huge amounts of money in taxes, as I know all of you do also, this excuse is pathetic, at best. I cannot understand for the life of me the double standard here. Of all places, a school bus should be the first place that has seat belts, air bags, and wrapped in bubble wrap if possible.

Actually, cost is not the issue with school buses. Its a safety issue. Modern School Bus seats are designed to help contain passengers within thier seating area. They are high and they are padded on every surface now, back front and the seats themselves. Even the very front seats have containment padding in fron of them. Ejection from a school bus would be a rare incident or impact with a dash board or other hard service is not as likely within a bus, where it is in most any other passenger vehicle.

Now, we have to lean towards the incidents that might happen on a bus where removal from a seat belt in a hurry is paramount. In a passenger vehicle, 1,2,3 or 4 seat belts, if nessesary can be cut off by emergency workers in a couple of moments. Imagine having to free up to 71 kids.

"STOP THE TRAIN AND BACK IT UP A MINUTE"  Takes on a whole new meaning when the bus is stalled on the tracks.

Perspectives on the Issue

Seat-belts were designed for cars, and have saved thousands of lives. School buses are designed with safety (but not seat-belts) in mind; they are not built like cars. Buses are much larger, higher and heavier than other vehicles on the road, so they have a body-on-frame design. For seat-belts to enhance rider safety, the bus body would have to be completely re-engineered with seat-belts integrated at the design stage.

Beyond the engineering problems someone would need to ensure the seat-belts are used, adjusted properly between uses by small and larger children, and repaired when damaged. In an emergency, seat-belts could hinder evacuation. Young children should not be placed in a situation where they must become responsible for their own safety.

School bus standards vary between countries. In Canada, almost 40 federal standards apply to the design and construction of school buses. These standards combine to make Canadian school buses an extremely safe mode of transportation. A school bus does not have safety belts like a passenger vehicle, but it does have many passive safety systems engineered into it.

The real safety issue is not seat-belts, but reductions in school bus service. Without the bus, more children are exposed to risk by walking to school or using alternate forms of transportation. Yet pedestrians account for almost 40 per cent of road fatalities to children aged 5 to 9. This is an issue worthy of attention by those concerned about children getting to and from school safely. Children are 16 times safer riding in a school bus than in a passenger vehicle.
Source: http://www.safety-council.org/info/traffic/schbusbelt.htm

Believe me, in this household, we take this information seriously

Well I stand corrected. I was told that it was a money issue.

Sparks my best freinds boyfriend went through the windscreen 9yrs ago when the car hit a high curb, hardly a scratch on it, was his own choice to not wear the belt, but his little girl did'nt understand why he wasnt wearing his belt

we as a family were rear ended about 4yrs ago, we were in a big bumpered saab, i got out and brushed the head light glass from the other car of my bumper and i would be surprised if any one could tell we had been hit, the other cars ( ford sierra) had its engine pushed back in the bay against the bulk head, the ford driver was so drunk he could hardly stand,

i watched as two motor bikes rounded a bend and slammed into a car three in front of me that was trying to do a u turn in a traffic jam, the riders flew past my van but got up and were able to walk back, both people in the car on the passenger side were killed outright, one of the riders now has the garage oppsite my workshop, he,s racing on the isle of man this week

when i was 17 a bomb went off in a club i had just left in Londonderry, the small group i was with had'nt gone far so we went back to help, the club was packed and there was no warning given, kind of standard practice here at that time, the group that carried out the bombing were called terroists on the mainland but had massive political and financial support in other countrys

i lost the cousin i grow up with to another bombing the next year, and a school friend to a snipping the same year all by the same "group"
joining the army was a way out of the town i lived in during the late seventies

i used to drink a lot then, but stopped cold 5 years before i started to drive , i tend to take people as they are

but that still dont stop me thinking its a waste, and did'nt have to that way


iain

I always wear mine, not worth the ticket if I get caught without it

click it or ticket

I have to say that I feel like it should be your choice to wear a seat belt or not.  Getting away from if it is safe or not, if a lobbyist can get motorcycle helmet laws revoked, why can I not let my daughter set in the front seat when we are parked and waiting for say 30 minutes?  Due to laws not allowing me to turn off my passenger air bag it could kill her if it deploys.  A few years ago a friend of ours was bumped in a parking lot.  No damage to either vehicle, but freak accident or not the air bag deployed and broke her nose and gave her some lacerations on her face with two black eyes.  I told that story to help show why there is no way I would ever let a child up front even though we are deffinately not going anywhere.  The girl was in a ford ranger, but our chevy dealer (when cornered) will admitt they have had some "accidental deployments" as well.  No safety device that is required by law should ever be responsible for a death.

there are much better ways to save lives in a car than airbags.  they're dangerous, they can save lives, but they are dangerous.

full restraint and helmets would be much safer, but helmets are a pain, and they're hot.

A good reason to wear your seat belt is for other peoples safety.  If you are unbelted in a car you become a 200lb projectile in an accident that could easily kill or injure anyone else in the car.  How well do you think 50lb kids handle unbelted adults slamming into them at 50 mph?

Also if you get into an accident, say get t-boned going through an intersection, you may get knocked out of your seat and unable to control your car.  How would you feel if your car runs over everyone at a bus stop because you couldn't reach the brake?

The fact is that overall seatbelts save many more lives than they take, that's why seatbelt laws exist.  

On the airbag issue, a big part of the initial problem with them was that they were designed for an unbelted   male.  Therefore they had to be very powerful, and so they killed women and kids that were too close to them.  Now they have been powered down and some manufacturers are developing ones that modulate the power for the size of the person and violence of the impact.  

Ian

Dans onto something.........
I am going to start a campaign to make it a LAW , mandatory that every person that sets in a vehicle MUST have a helment securely strapped to thier head.............thereby preventing MILLIONS of deaths and injuries........it only makes GOOD SENSE. ;) ;) :)

Indy good reading but be carefull how you bandy that 200lbs about some of us are under that amount,
maybe only just, but under none the less ;)


   iain

It might be useful to note that many of the states the repealed helmet laws for motorcyclist traded that law for a mandatory class on how to ride and control a motorcycle.  I would gladly trade a seatbelt law for a mandatory driver's ed class.  Especially as many schools have abondoned these classes in their efforts to streamline costs and shift more bucks into college prep classes.

I puckle-up even when out on forest roads on the crown lands. It's law here to 'Get it Together'. ;)

QuoteI puckle-up

[/size]

Swamp,
I was going to fix this but it made too good of a picture.   Kind of a cross between Buckle and Pucker.  :D :D

I like some of these typos.  ;D

What I see is a wild-eyed banshee with a death grip on the steering wheel and leaning forward into the windshield, aiming a mud-slinging, big tired, 4x4 down a narrow, two track, clay, woods-road on the side of a mountain and he's yelling "Yee Hi-i-i-i  Watch this!!"

I had simiair interpretation..
Mine was swampy hitting the ruts on the trail on a mountainside simultaneously buckling and puckering..... ;) 8) 8) 8)

Tom said ""What I see is a wild-eyed banshee with a death grip on the steering wheel and leaning forward into the windshield, aiming a mud-slinging, big tired, 4x4 down a narrow, two track, clay, woods-road on the side of a mountain and he's yelling "Yee Hi-i-i-i  Watch this!!" ""

Tom:    I think that is an exact descriptive vision of what my wife was thinking when our TrailBlazer hit something in the 'road' and her seat belt didn't hold her on the seat as she was tossed to the 'headliner' and crushed a vertebrae when she hit back onto the seat. I will tell her to 'puckle-up' if there is a next time.  ;D

 :D :D :D :D

Tom and Buzz, with the rutts and wet slag holes on some of them back woods roads it's a challenge to keep the 4-by out of the tree plantations and forest groves. When the forest road sign says 60 km/hr max, they mean 40, not 80. I wish there was a forum spell checker. ;D :D

hmm puckle up? I'm sure that 'b' fell down head first. ;) You guys have a different vision than I do about that word though. The forum edicate does not permit me to express my thoughts on it however. :D

It wouldn't do for me to try to drive on your back roads.   My speedometer favors MPH's and if I saw 60, I would have to grab my hat with one hand and see if I could make it.  :D :D

We have MPH marked smaller on the guage for the pre-1979 graduates. ;) ;D

Now, that's just like the newer collegiate engineers would do.  Don't they know that the pre '79 graduates are the ones that need the bigger letters?  :D :D

Time for thicker glasses maybe? ;)


/me ducks from swooping back-hander

:D ;D

You Dang, dad-gummed, little whipper snappers........!!

:D

 : :D :D :D :D :D

All the time for me. Even bought some from Western Auto and installed them in the car before the big trip to California. That was for a 63 Rambler stationwagon in 1965 ( I ws 14).

Use mine all the time now. Back in 75 I tried to stick my head through the windshield of my car when a truck turned left in front of me. :o  Did not get all the way through, but it did convince me to start using the seatbelts. ::)

This thread got me to thinkin' about getting back into the habit.  Then, a couple of days ago, my family avoided what could have been a nasty series of tragedies.  My Unk and Auntie went to a small town hospital to attend the birthing of their great-grandson.  The birth went badly and an emergency C-section was done.  After things seemed stable, they travelled the 60 miles back home, only to get a phone call that things had gone downhill again.  The new Mom was bleeding badly and headed for surgery. At 4 AM they headed back to the hosp and stayed for several more hours, until things were under control.  The little lady almost bled to death and required 6 pints of blood.  We almost lost her. :o  Anyway, Unk & Auntie headed back home, but Unk was too sleepy to drive. Auntie felt confident, so she took the wheel.  Got about 5 miles and fell asleep, sending the car, a '98 Caddy, into the trees.  It kissed a big sweet gum with the left headlight, rotated and caught a pine with the side, then backed into some smaller trees.  The car is demolished, but Unk & Auntie are OK, except for bumps & bruises.  The seatbelts saved them.  We were lucky, but things could have easily been so very different.

Ok, I'm ready to be chastised profusely, but I have to throw this in.  When I hear that statistics show seat belts save lives I think of two wrecks I was in back in the early 90's.  One wreck the car was totaled, the other I couldn't drive the truck away.  I wasn't injured in either wreck, and when the state trooper asked if I was wearing a seat belt, I said no.  Both times with different troopers, they stopped and asked again real slow if I was wearing my seat belt while nodding their head yes.  Well, thinking back I shouldn't have, but I said "yes I was".  Now I know I'm a very small part of that statistic, but how many others said yes when it should have been no.  I'm not saying don't wear a seat belt, just that I don't feel the statistics are correct.  It's too easy to say yes to avoid more aggravation when you're looking at a wrecked vehicle and feel you already have enough to deal with.

I always wear mine in the car, but not always in my pickup.  Why? I'm not sure.  It is legal in Indiana to drive a pickup without them.  I don't necessarily think it is wise, however.  I spent 15 years as a firefighter \rescue volunteer, and worked many accidents.  An ad several years ago kind of annoyed me.  It featured a state trooper announcing he had never unbuckled a dead person from an automobile.  He was probably being truthful, because we had already cut the belts away before he arrived! ;)  I can say I have removed several belted in fatalities from wrecks. Certain accidents are just not survivable with protection currently  available.   I can also say I have extricated many live people who might not be alive had they not been wearing belts.  The best advice I can give (and need to take myself)  is to wear the things AND drive defensively.

I have to admit I have been sloppy.  I got stopped for not wearing it and got a ticket, much to my godson's delight. The smartaleck was wearing his :D.
Almost thirty years ago, I got hit head on by a guy who had to drive. He was too drunk to walk. I was wearing my belt. I still suffer from the whiplash injury but at least I am still breathing and walking. I agree with iain. It is not just me who suffers if I choose to make a poor decision but  my loved ones pay the price too. Not to mention the burden on the medical system.  Yes, the law does infringe on my freedom to choose but I recognize it is for the common good. I have been in states where skid lids are not mandatory and have seen helmetless riders screaming down the highway with the buckets strapped to the bike until the state line. Pointless, childish rebellion.

I supplied the poll with a "most of the time" response. Even though I do not sport a seatbelt "all of the time" it is a lot more like 95% of the time than a simple majority 51%. We do not have a law in this state (NH) except for minors. I do not like the idea of a law as many have plainly stated. What has always bugged me is if an auto is so unsafe that a seatbelt is legislated then why are motorcycles even allowed on the road at all?  ???

I agree it is a good idea to wear them. I also believe it is not the Goverments job to protect me from myself. If I own a Chainsaw or whatever, I am at will to do whatever I want with it because I own it. Same with the seat belts. If I can't do whatever i want to with my own body because of a law the gov made. Then I don't own me the Government does. Just my 2 cents
JOHN

Welcome to the forum PawNature!  That is a real cute buddy you've got there!   :D

Even truckers (big rigs) have to wear em here



  iain (smelling of lemons after 5 days sawing cedar on the other side of the country)






ps thats 89miles from here ::)

Everyone is coming on here that the government is taking away your rights.  Were these laws passed to protect you?  If you said "no", go to the head of the class.  So, who were they protecting?

Auto makers.  In the mid-80s, the Dept of Transportation Secretary, Elizabeth Dole, was going to mandate that new cars were to have airbags to protect the drivers.  Auto makers balked and Dole said if 2/3 of the states had seat belt laws, there wouldn't be any need for airbags.  The auto makers formed a lobby, and spent millions of dollars to get the seat belt laws enacted.  Later, the government made the auto makers install airbags anyways. 

Bottom line is the laws were passed not to protect you or take away your rights.  We were just unwitting pawns. 
. 

Let me ask this..............
How many of you who don't wear your seatbelt............use PPE ???

For non USAians whats PPE?




  iain

PPE - Personal Protective Equipment (or something like that)

Safety gear in other words - See I did learn something at that OSH hazard ID course  :D

Ian

I wear that lots
even wore my new £190 chain saw boots to bed the first night i got em, all smelling of leather, with lace's all over tied up tight          did'nt have any effect on Linda though except the shouting to get those f'ing boots out "my"  bed you sad man (actual words and phrase's edited) :D


iain

I wear hearing protection and have safety lenses in my glasses.  I won't wear steel tip boots.  Once got my foot in a log splitter on the split cycle and took off the tip of my boot and the tip of one toe.  I would have lost the whole front of my foot had I been wearing steel tips. 

I'm with Ron on them steel toed boots. They are too cold in winter and I find they hurt my toes, just from wear, and the leather wears off the toes faster.

I sometimes wear my seatbelt prbably 50% of the time.  I just dont like laws telling you what you have to do.  I have seen several accidents where seatbealt have killed people, they were restrained in the rollover and there necks were broken.  In several accidents including relatives I have seen that their lives were saved by not wearing a seatbelt, this even comes from the mouths of highway patrols working the accident scenes. 

We always see stats of how many peoples lives are saved by wearing a seatbelt, I would like to see the stats that show how many lives were lost while wearing a seatbelt.  I understand that wearing a seatbelt prevents you body from moving foward, but internal body parts are still moving at the speed of the vehicle wheher you are restrained or not, during impact these internal parts such as the brain impacts the skull at the speed the car was traveling.  Just my 2 cents worth.

It's always interesting to read Stats like that. 

I forget my seatbelt sometimes but not by design. I know that I may get into a situation where I wouldn't want it on, but there are so many others where I am given a sense of security that it isn't worth leaving it unbuckled.

I've been in a topless jeep that was rolled over in Atlanta, Georgia back in 1958 or '59 and remember the fleeting moment when I realized the thing might go on over rather than stand up on its side. There was no place to go.  I would have been squashed.  A seat belt probably wouldn't have helped me that day, who knows?

I was in a rolled auto in 1960 and found myself upside down in the floorboards with my feet on the ceiling.  The car was right side up.  I don't know how that happened.  A seatbelt would have kept me in the seat and cause me a lot less anxiety.

A few months ago, a young girl, traveling too fast and erratically, tried to pass my truck as I was passing another vehicle.  We never touched but her inexperience caused her to lose control and roll off the other side of the road.  I stopped and crawled in to get her and her passenger out and they were both in that little cubby-hole above and behind the backseat.  So was an empty baby seat and most everything in the car was on top of them.  A seatbelt would have kept them in their seats and the baby-seat should have been fastened.  Luckily, they had just let the baby out at a family members house.

My son rolled his truck and wasn't wearing a belt.  He was expelled through the back window, partially.   His spleen was damaged, his kidneys bruised, his pelvis crushed and his body covered with cuts.   A seat belt would have held him in the seat and possibly saved him from much of the damage.  As crushed as the cab was, he still might have not come out unscathed.

A young man in Hilliard who had been an off-bearer on my mill was drunk and speeding and lost control of his truck one night.  He was expelled and killed, either from being rolled over by the truck or crushed as he was thrown through the woods and was flung against the trees.

Two boys were killed on our road last year when they hit a tree and fence head-on.  They were drunk, but would have probably lived if they had worn belts. One went through the windshield and his throat was cut after his head went through and his body collapsed.  the other died from internal injuries the next day.  Nobody even new he was hurt until later that night.

I hate for someone to tell me what to do.  Wearing my seatbelt or motorcycle helmet falls into that category.  I still wear a helmet and still wear my belt.  I'm not stupid.  I don't want to tempt fate.  I actually feel more secure with them on.  I don't like the Government mandating my actions though.  Then, I guess the  majority of the population wouldn't take advantage of safety devices if some entity didn't mandate their use. 

My consolation is that it doesn't matter if they (the government( want to be hard nosed about it or not.  I'm going to be wearing it anyway. :)

True, true, Tom.  There are many instances where a seatbelt is more a liability than an advantage.  But the odds are with those who are buckled in.  Since the wearing of the seatbelt must be made before the accident happens, it only makes sense to go with the odds.  I wear mine....when I remember it.

At home i usually wear my seat belt, my mom always made us growing up but as i got older i ditched the habit.
the first time i rolled a jeep off roading convinced me to wear a seat belt while 4x4 ing, my friend went out on the first roll through the top of the cage and was not hurt, but i decided to grab onto the bar with one hand and the dash "oh s#@$ handle" with the other, my hand got it, luckily it was in the woods but i still learned.

and now i always wear my seat belt most of the time, because of a few accidents, the first i hit a tree on my way to work, my old truck only had lap belts at the time (now it has 5 points), a car ran me off of my side of the road, and as soon as i got back on the road i was in a curve, just slid across the ice, and smacked into a hedge tree, the lap belt kept me from going through the windshield, but did not keep my face and ribs off of the steering wheel.  The next time my GF at the time picked me up from work, i just left my coveralls and chainsaw helmet on and fell right to sleep, i reached for the seatbelt and she just said "what are you scared of my driving ???" so i jsut let go of it and went to sleep.  the next thing i knew she was yelling and i woke up and saw that we were sliding down a bluff road with a t at the end, went off into a ditch, she was still in the car (she put her belt on >:() and i went through the windshield into a fenceline, i walked away sore, but did not even have a cut, i guess that was one more of my nine lives.  after enough of these times i was not going to be so lucky, so now i always wear them at home.  Well almost always, for some reason i always forget to put them on in the semi :o. 

over here in town we usually dont wear them, as most of the time you get in and out a lot, but once we are out on the open road they are always on, if you have ever seen the inside of an uparmored humvee, or rolled or blown over in one, you learn that they are not a very inviting place to be flying around, and consering the windshield is a laminate that is about 2" thick i dont think that you would be lucky enough to fly through.  and well, if you are the one stuck in the turret in the top of the humvee, you just pray that you do not get into trouble, and if you do just drop and try to hold onto something! ::)

zach

Welcome to the forum Zach.  8)

You are doing a wonderful job over in Iraq, and I appreciate it very much. Now you stay safe over there and come home soon!  ;)

I wear mine most of the time. 

If I am leaving from home, I always put it on.  The garage is only 60 feet from a major highway, and the highway patrol likes to sit in the driveway and catch speeders- extra incentive for me to put it on.

I usually forget to put it on when I'm just driving around checking cattle or working on something on the farm, although that was where I put a Ranger on it's side.  I wasn't wearing a seatbelt then, and if i was, I probablly wouldnt have this lump in my lip where the steering wheel met my teeth.

Overseas in Iraq, they complained daily about us wearing our seatbelts. Every time we left the parking lot we had them on, except for the gunner in the turrent.  The only problem that we found with that was with the civilian vehicles that we drove over there.  We had a 350 lb guy in the unit- not fat, just 6'6" and BIG.  He would carry about 80 lbs of gear around.  We would drive the SUV like we stole it- no speed limits for us  ;D  There were several times per trip that we would have to slam on the breaks due to someone cutting in front of us.  On several occasions his seat belt buckle broke completely.  We were just glad that he wasnt the one driving as he helped to shatter the windshield several times.

I just dont like the fact that the government is telling us what to do.  Although I almost always put it on, I dont want someone telling me to put it on all the time.

Just my 2 cents

Charles

I'm not a fan of being told what to do. Seatbelt legislation is relatively new in Alberta. I spent years on our fire department and still work on the ambulance. Seatbelts can save you and they can kill you, I figure the odds are better if you stay in the vehicle. I found that being seatbelted in I could steer instead of trying to hold on! I always wear mine... except when I'm in the back of the ambulance. For some reason it never even occurs to me to put it on.

Sawdust

I did a search for Mark M

his last posting was on June 7 2005

amazing how it was on Seatbelts

I use 'em all the time. Wasn't always so. When I started flying light planes, I got in the habit in a hurry after I got my head bounced off the ceiling a few times. Another thing that influenced me was the company I worked for carried accident insurance covering employees driving on company business. No seat belt, no coverage. But I don't think it's any business of the government. Truth be known, insurance companies are the driving force behind compulsory seat belts.

Truth be known, us trauma surgeons think they are indispensible.  All medical studies on the subject demonstrate a significant decrease in mortality and in severity of injury of the passengers with seatbelts.  It's not even a question in terms of medical science, it's a question of civil liberties.  If you want your medical insurance costs to go up further, and I don't think there's anyone out there who wants that, repeal the seatbelt laws.

As a trauma surgeon, I can't tell you the number of times patients come back to me and say, "The EMT's told me I was lucky NOT to be wearing my seatbelt, or I would have been killed."  That's horse-hockey!!!  I know the EMT's and have asked them if that is something they would tell an accident victim, and they all laugh at the thought.  It's just justification for people who don't want to be told what to do.

So, if you are one of those guys, I am going to tell you loud and clear what to do.....WEAR YOUR SEAT BELT - ALWAYS.  Sorry, the topic hits a nerve.  My job is to help save your life, and I'd appreciate you getting to me with a few heartbeats left so we can reverse the damage done.  Doctorb

dr
I find that comment/excuse laughable too. No EMT would say such a thing first off. I've heard some say after the fact, that they would have had less of a mess IF the seatbelts had been fastened. One was a neighbor boy who was found dead under his car in a field. Little damage to the car when it rolled, but the boy was not in the car and under it when it came to rest.

I'd heard once (early 90's) that the state of Maine (at least the employees) said their heirs would be paid $100,000 if they were killed wearing a seatbelt. State employees would get in their car and say "I'm buckling up my $100k insurance plan".
It seems effective and not mandated. And don't know if it is still in effect, but sounded like a great idea and cheap.

Many of us like to dig our heels in a bit, especially when it comes to government mandates on your behavior.  It turns out it's only us old guys that feel this way.  The vast majority of people under 30 don't even think about getting into a car without wearing a seatbelt.  It's a cultural, not intellectual, decision to not bucklle up.  "Oh, but what if my car goes into the water?"  Please, just don't say anything more!  You are so much more likely to hit another car or a tree than get wet in a car that to use that as an excuse is to just be looking for one.  That logic doesn't work any more!  I am rarely so rude or vehement about an issue, but having spent my career in a trauma center both before and after the seat belt laws changed, the issue is moot.  There is absolutley, positively no reason for not wearing your seat belt.  Period.

I read a statistic last week about the number of State Highway Troopers that are killed while not wearing seatbelts.  Talk about stupid.

I have to admit I'm not very good about wearing mine, but one thing I learned comes from this little story.  I have a close neighbor that rarely ever wore a seatbelt, he's one of if not the toughest person I know and was involved in an accident a few years ago.  The car he was in had airbags and he was hit by a full size van, T-bone style that was traveling at highway speeds.  Any how for some reason he put his seatbelt on that day and walked away from the crash (litterally) with only a broken sternum.  The airbag went off of course and he swears to this day that's what broke it and had he not been buckled in the airbag would have killed him.  I'm more religious about wearing them in vehicles with airbags.

The issue of airbags and seatbelts has been extensively studied.  You need both.  One without the other is not as effective as the combination. There have been serious injuries reported by airbags alone, but mostly in smaller adults or kids.  That's why newer cars allows you to turn on or off the passenger airbag.   Please everyone - buckle up and be safe.

A forklift operator was killed here the other day. They were using two lift trucks to move a large load, mistake number one, when the load shifted. One l/t spun and flipped throwing the operator off.  He was crushed by the machine. The report did not mention whether a seat belt was available.
There will always be people who heard about a guy who heard about a guy who had a friend yada yada. The fact of the matter is seat belts do save lives. I hate da goobermint telling me what and what not to do as much as the next guy but I also want to see my wife's face when I come home. Same goes for wearing a skid lid on a sled or motorcycle.

Seatbelts were designed to stop the continued motion of the body when the vehicle stopped.  As forklifts don't go very fast, I don't know if they're required or not.  The rate of death when people are ejected from vehicles is staggering.  I don't know if this applies to heavy equipment or not.  I would be interest to find out, if anyone has any knowledge.

Probably not required, but a lot of construction machinery has it fitted. Like you say, in a roll over situation, even if the vehicle has ROPS fitted, it's common for the driver to be thrown out and rolled over. A local guy escaped when his excavator rolled about 500ft down a steep hill. He was building a track for a new forestry planting and the ground gave way. The digger was fully "bush rigged" with ROPS/ FOPS and mesh screens and he was strapped in. Digger was totalled and is still in the gulley, but he was uninjured.

But because the vehicle is not operated on the road it's not a legal requirement, although companies may require it for OSH reasons.

Ian

Seatbelts are definately a requirement on this job. You can be fired on the spot if you are seen operating a forklift or company vehicle without your belt on.

I don't feel comfortable driving on the road without my seatbelt, I feel more secure with it on. However its a different story in the bush, unless in steep country I rather not wear it. My latest work vehicle is a Toyota Hilux 4wd that emits a constant high pitch beep when the seat belts not on, the beep gets louder and more eratic (not erotic, but it does reach this beeping climax ;).

Pull the buzzer fuse. Now that's down right dirty. :D

I get asked about seatbelts and I tell people "not wearing a seatbelt is great because you get thrown out, broken beyond repair and dead". "Way less paperwork for me."

In twenty five years I can think of two that would have had a better chance if they had been thrown out. I don't bother telling people who ask that one. Most of them are looking to justify no belts.

Stupid thing is though I would never drive or be passenger without a belt, never even occurs to me to wear one in the back of the ambulance. Survival rate in the back of a crashed ambulance is really low.

Flying objects?

Yep, the attendant mostly. Our cardiac monitors weigh about twenty pounds and the cupboard doors all pop out instantly. The patient has to wear a 5 point harness. We have only rolled one and there was no patient on board.

All the time. Except like sawdust, not in the back of the ambulance. You'd think as an EMT, I'd know better  :D .Sometimes it's impossible with all the things you're doing with a patient. You're up, you're down, and sometimes, all around. Although on a basic transport, I will "click it" . Delivering a baby, there's no seat belt in that position. Just put on the catchers mitt, and hold on.  :)

Montgomery County 369 ALS

My dad never wears his... except when I'm driving. :D

Tell your dad that, if he wants to see you become what you can become in life, put on his seat belt every trip.  Hard to break old habits and beliefs, but this small effort is worth it.

I've told him. I can't keep mothering him about it. He almost drowned trying to save grandpa's life when he drove into a creek. If he was wearing a seatbelt, he'd be dead. But, that's not it. A cop was mean to him when he got caught, so now he won't wear it. Nothing I can do about it.

Thank you for the concern. Unfortunately, it has rubbed off on me and I only wear it half the time. Like father like son :D. Oops! Now I know the cops are gunna get us!   :-X :-X :-X

You can't win against contrary, stubborn, and bad habits. :D