But indicates that something unplanned interrupted your intended plans which required a change of action. But can be Good or Bad.
In my instance it was Good that the Bad was not any worse.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0247.JPG) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358787)
This picture shows that the side supports had been lowered about half way to allow this monster log to roll toward the mast and allow me to take a larger bite with the next pass. This is standard practice and something that I have done many times. After the pass, the side supports are raised and the log turned for the next pass. Then problem was that this log was so heavy the side supports could not raise without some help, also not unusual. I lowered the log clamp and went underneath the log to nudge it a bit away from the side supports.
The log loader arms were at the top to prevent the log from rolling off of the mill but the log was so heavy that the log's rolling momentum did not stop when they contacted the log loader arms. Yup.....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0214.JPG) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358799)
The log kept rolling and took the sawmill with it. Of course I was at the hydraulic control box and I knew that it was gone and there was nothing that I could do to stop it so my only thought was to get away.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0215~0.JPG) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358798)
Neither the saw head nor the blade guide arm hit the ground.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0212~0.JPG) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358800)
I was now in a "damage control" mode. Shut the engine off and then decide how to upright the sawmill. First we rolled the log off of the loader arms and away from the sawmill. I connected a chain to the travel chain which is behind the axle and raised the loader side outriggers so that they would not bend, etc. as the sawmill was uprighted. I also retracted the blade guide arm and gradually lowered the engine on the mast as the sawmill was gradually uprighted.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0216.JPG) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358803)
The only damage to the sawmill was a broken top fitting on the hydraulic cylinder and a crushed and twisted loader foot. A new fitting took care of the hydraulic cylinder and some work with a "rosebud" straightened the foot enough so that we could reload the log and saw it today. The sawmill is now at the welding shop to properly straighten the loader foot. He is gonna do all that he can to have me back normal for Monday's sawing.
There was not really a cockpit error that caused this, but I acknowledge that I was seriously beyond the normal and stated limits of the sawmill. If this mishap is viewed in such a way that it can/will help someone else in the future, then I feel justified in sharing it on the open forum.
Will I ever exceed the sawmill's limitations again? Certainly if that is what it takes to saw a job. Ain't skeered!! :wacky:
Oh no and oh wow!
Yikes!
I'm glad you are able to tell the story about this.
Looks pretty scary to me. Glad you were able to get out of the way.
I first looked to see if you had your seatbelt on then remembered you said you don't/can't use it on these long logs.
Do you have a good estimate on the overall weight of the log?
Glad there were no associated pictures of injuries that required posting.
Good luck on speedy repairs and resumption of sawing and mostly glad you were not hurt.
Dang!
The only time I had logs heavy enough to do that on the mill, I was loading them off a log deck. I never got to test the mill's tipping capacity smiley_grin .
Glad all ended well.
This is when I appreciate setting up the mill Around the log. If the mill is easier to move than the log, then so be it.
Meanwhile in NZ
FF489518054_1122026449727652_3905172533948714930_n.jpg
But I'm glad the damage wasn't serious.
ffcheesy ffcheesy ffcheesy Next time, put a 2x4 on the loader side of the deck. That will stop the log from doing that. ffcheesy ffcheesy ffcheesy
I'm just relieved to see you didn't get hurt. Wasn't good but could have been much worse.
Whoa! Glad you are ok MM!
Oh boy!! , glad you got away unhurt MM
D
Holy Frijoles, Magicman!
Glad you escaped injury free!
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 09, 2025, 11:24:26 PMDo you have a good estimate on the overall weight of the log?
The Log Weight calculator in the FF Tool Box indicates that it was close to 8K pounds.
Yikes MM, glad you are OK.
WOW!!!!!
I'm glad you weren't hurt.
I don't recall seeing anyone else had rolled their mill.
This is not a good thing to be first at.
Well, you must be getting close to being able to say "I have done/seen it all". Glad you are good, and the mill is repairable.
:shocked2: :shocked2: :shocked2:
Glad you're OK!
It was good to see minimal sawmill damage, but mostly that you're ok!
There was most likely a little bit of "pucker time" during the process!
Boy am I glad you weren't in that seat! Rough handling on the mill, but seems like all in all you got pretty lucky. Be careful man!
How level was the terrain there? I almost tipped my LT40 the other way on a slight slope working on a huge walnut log. Glad it worked out and thanks for the great post.
Fortunately the Magicman pulled one out of his hat and escaped unscathed!
Lucky the mill head didn't slam the ground.
John S, it was absolutely level.
jpassardi, yes, the saw head hitting the ground could have been catastrophic.
Regardless of the log's length, I would never be in the sawmill seat when making log maneuvers and adjustments such as this. I need the ability to see exactly where the log is positioned plus see the log clamp and log turner claw.
Turning this log required not only the claw and clamp, but also the rear toe board to be able lift and then allow the log's weight against the claw to gradually turn the log. I have never had to use three hydraulic functions to turn a log before. Yes, we could have used the Magic Hook and the backhoe, but I wanted all of the log's movement under my control. This was by far, the heaviest log that I have ever sawed.
Quote from: Chuck White on April 10, 2025, 08:34:47 AMThere was most likely a little bit of "pucker time" during the process!
I suspect there was a lot more "loosening" than puckering going on. :wink_2:
One suggestion for future big logs...
When I ran side-dump semi trailers, there was always a risk with wet/sticky loads for rollover. On jobsites where heavy machinery was available (loaders, excavators), it was common practice to "cover" the trailer end frame with the machine to prevent it from flipping. Possibly the same could be done with the mill and whatever loader is on site, or chaining it down to the lowered bucket of the machine.
Shocker, and very glad to hear that you were able to scramble out of harms way.
👍👍
"Yep, that'll happen on some of these big jobs."
Your years of experience made you expect the unexpected.
However, I'm surprised that the airbags didn't deploy.
I bet the next time MM saws an 8,000+ log he handles it differently. :wacky: :uhoh: :thumbsup:
Quote from: Andries on April 10, 2025, 09:47:57 AM.......
However, I'm surprised that the airbags didn't deploy.
Airbags? AIRBAGS!? He don't need no stinkin' airbags! ffcheesy
Lynn - I'm glad that you're ok. That could have been really bad...
Yes that's the first thing I thought of was, oh Good Lord that could have ended badly.
Glad the damages were minor and everyone is ok.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 10, 2025, 09:52:32 AMI bet the next time MM saws an 8,000+ log he handles it differently.
Yes, something like using a "rollback preventer" like Peter suggested above.
I would have been afraid of the mill slamming back down when you rolled the log off.
Glad you didn't have more damage.
mh
Quote from: Brucer on April 10, 2025, 12:54:49 AMDang!
The only time I had logs heavy enough to do that on the mill, I was loading them off a log deck. I never got to test the mill's tipping capacity smiley_grin .
It is my opinion that running that test is an abuse of machinery.
It can be very stressful on the human owner.
GAB
DanG
@Magicman, that's crazy. When I was restoring my mill, I was replacing the guide bearings on the saw head and it came off the track and tumbled over. Luckily I was not in the fall zone and it happened in my garage. My son helped me use a cherry picker to lift it and get it back on the track. The reason that it happened is that I had removed 2 bearings without replacing them yet. If I ever change them again, I will replace 1 at a time.
@jb616 ,
You only have to remove one cam follower bearing on an LT35 to drop the head off. Or that's what I've been told - of course
I can't speak from personal experience or anything you understand. :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:
Lynn, Like a true professional, you just take everything in stride and do what you got to do to get back to milling.
The welding shop called this evening and the sawmill is ready. I'll get it in the morning.
Quote from: moosehunter on April 10, 2025, 12:02:07 PMI would have been afraid of the mill slamming back down when you rolled the log off.
We were very deliberate with every move. The log was not holding the sawmill over on it's side so we used a chain and Magic Hook to roll it away from the sawmill.
Next I attached a chain to the safety travel chain and as he backed the backhoe up, I gradually lowered the engine on the mast to keep it from being top heavy. It was actually amazing how gently it settled back on it's wheels and outriggers. I was very pleased to see that the only sawmill damage was to that forward loader foot.
My customer is a retired professional welder so some field straightening was in order. With no press, the rosebud straightening that we did left a bend in the foot which caused that loader arm to be about 3'' high. It was good enough to load one log but not good enough for continued use.
I am glad that the customer had that old backhoe for help with loading that log (twice), righting the sawmill, and also for handling those long & heavy boards.
Quite the encounter MagicMan. Unreal, with plenty of ingredients for this to be much worse. Glad to hear you and your mill are still running strong. How long was that log? Safe to say there isn't a 16' log in this part of the world to get anywhere near 5000lbs let alone 8000lbs!
Quote from: KWood255 on April 10, 2025, 08:46:19 PMHow long was that log?
LINK to Sawing Log (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=125468.msg2063913#msg2063913)
Glad to see you're ok, my friend!! That's quite a spill!!!!
JH ffwave
I probably would have used a jack to get the tires up in the air to change them, but your way seems much faster. Glad you are alright.
DanG.........Lynn. That is stressful. I have done that maneuver before, but not that big or long. I get antsy when moving the clamp under the log to help rotate the log. I have always thought about just what happened to you.
I'm glad you are ok and the damage to the mill wasn't worse. Do you think the actual weight of the log flipped the mill or was it a combo of weight and momentum as it rolled? I was thinking if the hydraulics could lift the log to put it on the mill, they should have been able to hold it on the mill but I guess there's some geometry involved with less force at the top of the lift cycle.
In any case, I'm glad you are ok.
It was the heavy rolling momentum. Also the engine was at the top of the mast which sorta added to the top heaviness and added weight to the momentum.
The loader alone could and did not lift the log up to the sawmill bed. The backhoe FEL could not lift it either. It took a combination of the loader arms, a chain & Magic Hook attached to the log clamp, plus the backhoe FEL all working together. We would raise it a bit and then readjust the Magic Hook and the FEL before raising it another six inches or so. It took several readjustments to get it from the ground to the sawmill bed.
And then after I patched the loader foot & hydraulic cylinder back together, we had to load that monster again. :wacky:
I was wondering if it was a monster backhoe, I know mine can lift pretty heavy stuff, but probably not that log. I max out around 2 tons with the loader side.
He had previously told me that he could not pick that log up with his backhoe.
This probably should go in the Dumb topic, but it is actually a continuation of this topic.
I got the sawmill from the welding shop this morning after the loader foot was straightened yesterday. No way was I gonna leave the fresh welds unpainted so.....enter a can of Allis Chalmer's Orange paint. That is what TSC had instead of Kubota Orange so....
Rattle cans need rattling so.....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0262~0.JPG) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358808)
It slipped out of my hand and hit a rock on the ground which punched that hole in the can....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0260.JPG) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358806)
And immediately gave me a Good or Bad Orange Spraying.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0261~0.JPG) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358807)
Pants, shoes, shirt, suspenders, & arms. Going along with the theme of this topic; It was Good that the Bad was not any Worse.
Some days would be better spent with a book and a cold drink in a lounge chair!!! ffcheesy
mh
It's funny but you can see the non-painted spots on the ground where my feet were. Look just inside of where my feet are when we went back and took the pictures. ffsmiley
If it would have been me it would have rolled around and sprayed the side of my truck. About any thing that happens could always have been worse.
I understand the comment about the truck. I have not examined it but I suspect that it surely has some "over spray".
PatD used Shout on the pants before washing and the only problem was...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0268~0.JPG) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358809)
There were two pairs of her white socks in the washer so now she has two pairs of Orange socks.
The pants are good enough for me so I will wear them sawing Monday. ffsmiley
Life is only a pass-through. I am now as old as I have ever been and I will never be any younger than I am now. I just try to make the juice worth the squeeze.
Wowsa! No purple toes this time? Glad you came through and things could be righted. Stop doing that! smiley_smash
It might be time to practice doing nothing
The trouble with doing nothing, is that it's so hard to tell when you're finished! Been there. Done that. ffcheesy
Magic, I was running an enclosed cab skid steer one time and someone had left a can of marking paint in there, which decided to explode on me. That was fun! Hot pink, too🤦😂
I ran over a can of blue marking paint in a St Regis parking lot. Painted most of that side of the van. Crazy thing was that it took me a while figuring out what had happened because the paint can had "rocket shipped" and was probably 30' away. smiley_headscratch
Quote from: moosehunter on April 11, 2025, 03:06:13 PMSome days would be better spent with a book and a cold drink in a lounge chair!!! ffcheesy
mh
But a person never knows which days until it's too late...
Had a question about the log incident. Have you gone back through all the mill set up adjustments to make sure the frame or something else hasn't been tweaked? I would be afraid that the whole mill could have been slightly bent out of shape, not enough to notice without careful measurements.
Doug in SW IA
I was not concerned but a quick check showed all of the blade alignments intact. Thankfully neither the saw head nor the blade guide arm touched the ground.
I believe that the loader foot crushing actually prevented the sawmill's ground contact from being violent.
There were no hydraulic problems after replacing the broken hose fitting on the cylinder. After refilling about 3/4 gallon of ATF which was lost both from the broken fitting and the pump vents, I needed to "exercise" the lift with that one cylinder disconnected for it to properly purge.
You gotta remember that Wood-Mizers, with that fully welded beefy frame, are built like a tank. I have no concern about the sawmill and am looking forward to Monday's scheduled sawing.
Another great orange man!
Magic, I'm just seeing this now. I'm on a road trip and haven't had a chance to look at my computer till now. I must say it was an exciting read but surely not as exciting as it must have been for you at the time. I am very thankful you were not hurt and your mill did not suffer serious damage.
Please be careful and stop wasting paint.
Thank you Cutter. Actually I never even got concerned or said anything other than how we were going to move the log and turn the mill back onto it's feet. It was obvious from the beginning that there was no real damage and the minor stuff could be easily fixed.
Hopefully I never have another 8K lb log to saw, but if I do, I won't refuse. I've been there and have experienced what that amount of weight can do. I am thankful for that SuperHydraulic Wood-Mizer.
I'll be back to normal tomorrow with normal logs. ffcool
Good ride, Cowboy!😊
Was it a ride or a seat eject? ffcheesy
Lynn, I had printed out that photo of you mill in it's 'not normal' position, it upset me so and I wanted to share it. Took a while, but today I showed it to my buddy Bill. As I slid it out from under my cutsheet on my clip board he immediately winched, grabbed his groin and moaned while turning his eyes away..... momentarily. Them he looked it over more carefully and said "anybody hurt bad? Where did you find that picture?" I told him it was my buddy down in Mississippi, last week, and nobody died on that one. He asked all the routine questions about being set on grass, not level, etc. He sends his sympathy your way. Rarely do I ever see empathy from him, but today I did. :wink_2:
I deem yours and his reactions as over-reactions. I was at the hydraulic controls and all that I had to do was step back when the log rolled to the loader arms and began the tip over. True, it happened fast but there is nothing that could have contacted me even if it had continued to roll further but in that instance, the mast and head would have prevented any further movement.
The actual damage to the sawmill was slight. A hydraulic cylinder got a new fitting and a rosebud straightened the bent loader foot.
I was set up perfectly level on a grown over gravel driveway, hard packed. There was no sinking in the ground by the outriggers nor the loader foot.
I did the exact same "scoot over" maneuver today to move the log over to clear the blade guide. Just standard operating procedure.
Well you can deem it anything you want, it's still a free country. ffcheesy But when I see a photo like that my reaction is to think about personal injuries, and second, the damage to an expensive piece of equipment somebody depends on for their living. I don't think that's an overreaction, just a normal response. The fact that the results were a lot less than might be expected is a good thing, but looking at that photo, any mill owner is going to feel some 'emotion'.
Yes, I followed all your comments closely and know that this was not the result of bad judgment or poor setup. It just happened and you dealt with it. But to be honest, when something like that happens, nobody has any idea what the resulting damage might be,
Bottom line is this: I am just glad you are OK, the folks around the mill are OK, and the damage was fairly easy to repair. It's a learning lesson for everyone who is paying attention is all I am saying.
I did not hide nor did I try to negate the potential seriousness of this incident. I posted this on the open forum for all to see how quickly and innocently things can happen. Danger always lurks even when uncoiling a blade. Everyone's reaction is free to be what it is and if I deem a written reaction as an over-reaction, so be it.
I am quite certain that some have deemed me as a careless fool, but again, so be it.
Magic, I knew you knew how to ride that one out the minute I saw the picture😊 I've had my mill tipped nearly as much as that, but not from a huge log. Those monsters definitely increase the likelihood of something getting bent.
You gave us a good reminder of the inertia a several thousand pound log has.
Quote from: Magicman on April 15, 2025, 10:57:57 PMI did not hide nor did I try to negate the potential seriousness of this incident. I posted this on the open forum for all to see how quickly and innocently things can happen. Danger always lurks even when uncoiling a blade. Everyone's reaction is free to be what it is and if I deem a written reaction as an over-reaction, so be it.
I am quite certain that some have deemed me as a careless fool, but again, so be it.
Lynn, I don't think that any of us who have "been there - done that" have deemed you that at all. The more that one does, the more risk there is.
I believe that risk is not to be totally avoided, but rather intelligently managed. Occasionally the odds catch up with you, but IMO in this instance you managed things so that the risk was only to inanimate objects and not yourself.
Thanks for sharing this event; it helps the rest of us with our own risk management.
Scott
Thank you Scott, as was intended.
I've never milled a thing (other than chainsaw mill) or been near a running sawmill and the tip got my emotions up too!
I am sure with years of experience on the farm and doing potentially dangerous work, that you were prepared. I bet you did not have anyone standing near the mill alongside the massive log and felt in your gut and brain that it could go south. All the years of near misses help us survive the next near miss. It is good for us to see the power and physics we deal with every day and good to not assume everything will be ok. Lynn, you are no fool or careless. This may save some of us sawing for a while from being too confident and getting ourselves or someone else hurt.
I've only sawed one log that was about that size. We didn't have anything that would lift it and I wasn't at all sure the legs on the mill would be stable enough. In the end, I dug the trailer wheels down to lower the mill, blocked under the jacks and frame, put blocks under the ramps and used a combination of tractor FEL and winch to load the beast. Turning was with the FEL and chains wrapped around the log. With the manual mill, a tip over would only happen on the mill head side if the log rolled hard enough into the uprights to generate the energy to tip. On the loading side the log doesn't have any leverage. It's either over a jack or off the mill.
I never thought about how a hydraulic mill adds leverage to a heavy log off the mill rails. It seems the foot should negate that but perhaps the momentum added enough energy to bend the foot and then the mill could flip. It's hard to see any scenario where if the lift mechanism is intact the mill would flip and I understand why it would be a bad surprise when it happened.
The original post is a great reminder that creating safe zones and keeping people out of the danger zones is necessary. Thanks for posting.
Holy smokes! Glad you are ok!!!
Of all the rattle cans I've shook, and all the stones we have, I have never managed to get a can to have a premature release like that. I had another line to add, but my selfcensor cut it. ffcheesy
Lynn
You were smart to not have been in the seat which could have launched you like Bezos' Blue Origin rocketing the all-women crew into space for a brief moment, similar to a carnival ride. Maybe Howard can demonstrate that feat at the next Flea Market and give a subtle demo of sawing large logs.
Thanks Lynn for the photo of what could happen, and did. :thumbsup: You handled it well, IMO
Interesting how the "safety" nerds find themselves having to come up with a follow-up explanation of nearly every incident.
Reminds me of being on the safety committee while at the USFS, one tech was searching for termites in a destroyed building and he stepped on a nail which came through his shoe sole and pricked the skin on his foot. Rules were it had to be reported, and the safety committee had to review it, and of course come up with a solution so it didn't happen again.
The solution was "step to the right or the left of the nail" to avoid the "accident". ffcheesy ffcheesy ffcheesy
If I truly believed "Safety First", I'd never leave the house. However, I do believe that safety is important! Risk management is the name of the game, and everyone going home at night.
Beenthere, I wasn't drinking anything when I read your comment about Howard, if I had been it might've came out of my nose. The mental image of Howard launching off the seat of a mill at the flea market reminded me of the guy that gets shot out of the cannon at the circus😂😂
I don't think you're a fool. Old yes, ffcheesy
See what can happen if you take your eye off the ball. :wink_2: In our working lives, a lot can happen. Scott has a good point.
But, We Know Now what it takes to put a supper on its side. ffcheesy
:wink_2: