I have a 20 inch diameter on both ends log . I can only get a dogboard of 2-1/4 inches which leaves 1/4 inch clearance between the dogs and the blade as the cant goes through the blade. Ok now the help I need is for you to square this 20 inch log up to a 4 sided cant and saw everything into 1" x 8" boards by using only my circle mill and no edger . I get completely lost on sawing a log into dimensional lumber . Sawing through and through a 4 sided cant I have no trouble following my scaleboard and jumping around and sawing different thickness boards knowing exactly what I can do and how much is left to saw for things like random width boards . You want a log sawed all into 1 inch boards I got no trouble at all . On this 20 inch log when I am taking the first 4 slabs off is that where I am suppose to find my targets so I am left with a 4 sided cant that I can start sawing 1 inch boards off of all the way down to my dogboard which is the 2-1/4 inch and then slide that stack of 1 inch boards back over the husk and back onto the carriage ? Then can that stack of boards on the carriage be sawed in half to give me my stack of 1 x 8 boards? How many boards can be stacked on a carriage safely and dogged down and ran through the blade like this? I feel like I am starting all over learning to saw doing dimensional lumber because I feel that I need to get every board I can out of each log but sawing dimensional lumber I have alot of waste trying to find good targets to start the cant out with for exact width and height . Maybe someone can simplify my extreme frustration that I have encountered and thank you !
??? ??? ??? ??? Now I have run over a million bdft on a circle mill and never clamped a board or boards back down on the dogs. But then we had an edger. If you cut the cant 8 inches wide you can pull boards off the cant and they be of size. Band mills do not have this problem. ;D Maybe some small time circle guy like Buzz can help you. I do now that putting boards back and clamping them on the head rig may bind the blade. Good question though.
You will need to take your kerf width into account when calculating the cant size.
For example, my 5/16 bits, after a few sharpenings are closer to 1/4", so when sawing 2x boards I allow 2" per board, which leaves a 1 3/4 " thick board.
Keep in mind there is always one less kerf than there are boards in a cant, so if I want , say, four 2 x 8's, I square the cant to 7 3/4 " x 7 3/4".
For every 1" board, except the last one (dog board) I allow 1 1/4" so for eight 1 x 8's (7 3/4" wide), I would square the cant to 7 3/4" x 9 3/4".
Make any sense?
I have stacked as many as eight flitches for edging, but you would need to be very careful and the offbearer needs to be sharp!
Ed
There's a couple of different ways to saw a log like that. You could square it up and split it into 2 8" cants and then saw a bunch of 1" boards. I don't suggest that, since the lumber isn't all that nice. They are also pretty hard for one man to handle.
There are 2 variables that are needed to be known. One is the saw kerf. I usually use 1/4". The other is board thickness. I normally saw mine at 1 1/8". This means each board would need a 1 3/8" advance of the headblocks.
The way I would attack this log is to saw it to an 8" cant, so there is less edging. So, to build the stack for the 8" way I would just keep on adding the 1 3/8" to get sets that look like this: 8", 9 3/8, 10 3/4, 12 1/8, 13 1/2, 14 7/8, 16 1/4, 17 5/8, 18
To get down to your 2 1/4" dogboard, the stack would be 2 1/4. 3 5/8, 5. 6 3/8. 7 3/4, 9 1/8, 10 1/2, 11 7/8, 13 1/4, 14 5/8, 16, 17 3/8, 18 3/4
I'd start by taking a slab and a board from side 1. Turn the log and take another slab and a board. from side 2. Turn log and take a cut at 17 3/8, and at 16". Turn log and take a cut at 17 5/8 and 16 1/4. Your cant size is now 16 x 16 1/4.
I would continue to work on sides 2 and 4 to get it down to an 8 x 16. If you alternate your sides, you should relieve the tension in the log as you saw. Miscuts due to spring would be held to a minimum.
Turn down to saw your 1 and 3 sides, alternating sides to relieve the tension.
You probably won't have any boards that you can split 2 1x8. I fuigure the minimum log size to be about 23" . My thinking on going to that size of cant is that possibly there may be 1 or 2 there.
As for edging, I would always put boards that need to be edged with 2 sides on the carriage together. I never stacked too many of those, since they were hard to line up and dog safely. Edge the one side and bring back. A lot depends on your dog condition.
After you have everything edged on 1 side, you can stack up as many boards as you like. Just remember that you'll have a bunck of edging strips coming off and they have to have someplace to go. If they hit the saw, look out. I would always do about 5-6 that were about the same size.
You should have some flitches that will make a 1x8 and a 1x4, and some that will make a 1x8 and a 1x6, and some that will make only a 1x8 or a 1x6.
If log spring is a real problem or if accuracy is critical, then I would give myself some padding on my stack. The thinking is to turn to a side and take a shim cut. That squares the log. Without the shim cut, you could have a miscut. You can't square a log by brushing the side of the log with your saw. It heats the saw, and never really squares it up.
Hey Buck,
I saw with a WM LT-40 I'm not sure how relitive a bandmill is to your situation but number wise it may seem like a nightmare. When I first started, all those numbers that Ron is talking about almost blew a circut in my little brain. 10 years later, I don't give it 2nd thought. All those numbers will come to you like clockwork in time. In the mean time, a little piece of paper in the pocket is wonderful. Here's how I saw------------My band is on top of course. I like to start crown down because it gets a lot of junk off from the get go. Also, I can see the gap between my bed rails and the log on both ends and I can taper to equalize. Side #1, I can take what ever I want off and add the blade to my board each time. Get on down a few boards if you can. It will help provide a straight edge when it comes time to edge the flitch. Side #2 is almost the same. I'm just keeping in mind that this will probably be my width edge. Side #3 is the side that I commit to. Decide now if this will be your width side (probably not because of the crown) or if it will be the total number in a stack of boards of your choice plus the blade thickness each time. That paper in the pocket is a real friend about now. If I chose the 2nd option and I knew that I wanted to cut dressed 2X's with an extra 1/8" for shrinkage, my scale would run from bottem to top: 1 5/8 - 3 3/8 - 5 1/8 - 6 7/8 - 8 5/8 ect. In my case this is an inch and a half plus my blade of one eighth each time. Begin on the number you've got good wood and take off as many boards to clean up in preparation for side #4.----Side #4 is a commitment cut also. Since I chose side #3 to be my stack side, #4 will be my width. Choose the width number and add the board thickness plus 1/8" for shrinkage plus the blade thickness each time untill you run out of wood. There may be a 1X there. If so, add it as well. Back off a board and start a clean cut untill you reach the width number. If you want to split in into two or three cants, be sure to add the blade thickness for each cut BEFORE taking any boards off. At this point, I turn the cant again and now I'm back to side #1. Everything is now set up to start cutting boards. In my case, I am constantly looking at my center bed rails to reveal a possible gap indicating that the cant is bowing each time a board is removed. Flipping the cant 180 degrees will usually counter this. I hope this helps a little. ??? ??? ???
Thank you for the detailed explanations of this ! I will eliminate the thought of splitting the cant so I can rule out that for sure now . I will print this up so I can take it with to the mill and do it . I have a removable pin on my setworks that can be moved in 1/4 inch increments and a big scaleboard that I am going to master very soon . I have sawed alot of hardwoods for beautiful siding but never really had the opportunity to saw dimensional lumber like I do now from basswood and cottonwood from all the storms so by god I am going to get it right . Almost as confusing as posting pictures was for me but once I figured out where I was going wrong I can do it now within a minute. I will show a few pictures of my scaleboard and I believe it has most of the math allready done for me but I have to walk through this and learn it finally for good so I can have fun . I been having too much fun sawing b&b siding so now I have to become comfortable sawing everything . Thanks everybody
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10514/scaleboard.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10514/thescaleboard.jpg)
Here is a recent pic of my new simonds 48 inch blade and the area where I thought about sliding boards back across the plywood cover back to the sawyer position . (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10514/new%20blade.jpg)
Here is a recent pic of my cancer free dad posing for a action shot just to show a size comparison but I can take logs like this and 4 side it and set the setworks on the 1 inch pin setting and just fly through this like butter and have a stack of 1 inch beautiful boards in minutes but if you tell me to saw this log into all dimensional 1x & 2x well I get lost in a heartbeat so its time to study this and I didnt want to show that after all my questions the last few years that there is a major gap in my learning but how else can I learn if I dont ask right ! (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10514/DADBYASH.jpg)
Hey Buck,
I just remembered something else. Probably the best advice that I ever got. I was real stumped about numbers when I first got my mill. A fellow sawer told me, use your inch scale to figure your cut, don't use the preset, adjustable scales for 5/4, 8/4, full inch ect. His reasoning for this was "quote" if you start off using that preset scale, you will depend on it too much. If you use the inch scale to calculate with, it will keep you sharp with numbers and you you will find yourself being able to figure anything and everything very fast because it will be in practice every day...........and he was right. I've always had those scales right next to my inch scale, but I don't ever use them. It's too much trouble! :o I know it sounds crazy but the numbers just fall in automatically now. After 10 years of full time custom sawing at the customers site, regular demensions are kind of boring now. Never thought that would happen. ;D ;D
ok thanks woodbowl , I just realized why I never let anyone around to watch when I am sawing , I dont know what I am doing ! :D :D :D
You're doing fine! Right now I'm using a comupterized setworks. But, after sawing without one for 20 years, I know where I'm supposed to be setting without the computer. I look at that to see where the computer is screwing up.
Like woodbowl says, after you figure out the numbers, everything falls into place. Just figure out how to build a stack. Target size + board thickness + kerf. Then you'll find out that 2 3/4" will give you 2 boards and kerf. Then you'll sttat adding those smaller portions together.
When I wasn't using a computer, I had certain sets to start at that would let me walk down to a target size. I could walk down to any size on the inch. The scale board didn't matter since I couldn't get down to a 1" dogboard.
Glad to hear your Dad is doing great 8) 8). Bring that log over here when you come for the Pig Roast and we'll saw it on the Corley ;) :)
Greg if he is going to haul that log to the Piggy Roast we will saw it on Jeff's mill and not waste so much of it and it will be smooth enough to use. ;D
Good call Arky 8)