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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: Gilman on August 22, 2005, 01:39:25 PM

Title: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Gilman on August 22, 2005, 01:39:25 PM
I have a 2004 WM 40 Super that has about 500 miles on the trailer.

The operator side of the trailer has 55 psig in the tire and the loader side has about 48 psig.

Both tires tires are wearing out from the center of the trailer to the outside.  The inside tread is nearly worn out while the outside tread looks almost new.

I have a call into WM at their Portland office and they are looking into it.  They said they will get back to me later today.

Also, I measured from the tongue to each tire and they are probably within 1/4" of each other.  It's hard to get an accurate measurement due to the hydraulic box.  I guess I could unhook it from the truck and drop a plumb line down to the ground from the center of the tongue.

Any help or ideas would be Greatly appreciated.

If I don't get this fixed, it looks like these tires are only good for another 500 miles.  HELP!
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: ronwood on August 22, 2005, 01:52:00 PM
Gilman,

I have close to 2000 miles on my tires on my LT40HG25 without any problems. Not sure that the issue may be. Is it possilble that the axle is not alligned correctly with the frame or your brakes on the mill is giving you problems.

Sorry I can not help you more.

Ron
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Minnesota_boy on August 22, 2005, 01:57:17 PM
Check that the axel was installed correctly.  The axel should have a slight bend up in the center.  If that bend is down, it will cause the tires to wear on the inside.  If the bend is sideways, the tire wear will be much quicker.
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Gilman on August 22, 2005, 02:07:18 PM
Minesota,
The axle is arched up.   :-\
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Jeff on August 22, 2005, 02:09:15 PM
Thats what my guess would be. The bend in the axle is so you can adjust toe-in toe out. If the brakes were hit hard and the axle was not bolted down tight enough, it could turn on you.
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: twoodward15 on August 22, 2005, 04:11:40 PM
did you measure across from tire to tire?  Could be toed out and that would happen.
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: gary on August 22, 2005, 07:52:44 PM
Is there a reason your tires have a different amount of pressure in them? If this was on a car I would say you have too much air pressure in your tires. But I don't know about a mill.
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Dan_Shade on August 22, 2005, 08:49:45 PM
sounds like the axles got bent, or if there's a crook in it by design, it got flipped over or something...

I did the same thing on my car once :-\
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: MartyParsons on August 22, 2005, 09:09:41 PM
Both tires should have 55 psi in them. Check toe, jack up the mill and scribe a line around the tire, ( You can use a nail through a 2 x ) do other tire the same, measure at the same height (I always used a pop can)  right to left do the same on the back.
On a RWD vehicle it should be toed in 1/16 or more. Not sure about a trailer. If it is way off the axle or spindles are bent, If both tires are wearing on the inside it would be toe-out. Axles are Dexter and WM purchases as assemblies could be a factory bad day bend. In PA WM never seen any problems with axles.   :)
Did you get in a tight spot, back into a solid piece and possibly bend the spindles or axle? I had to replace a snowmobile axle because I backed into a huge piece of ice and it did not move but the spindle did. Wore the tire on inside untill I replaced the axle. We attampted to straigthen the axle but had no luck.
Portland WM get you an answer?
Marty
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Gilman on August 22, 2005, 09:59:13 PM
Thanks for the replies.

Marty, I've never hit anything hard so far.  No stumps, rocks or curbs.  One thing I forgot to mention is that the trailer has pulled to the right since I got it.  I don't know if this means something or not.

I can't figure out the procedure you discribed to check the toe.  Could you go into a little more detail please?

I took the mill to Les Schwab's and they looked at it.  They checked the axle and they said it was straight, where it should have an arc like mentioned above.  They referred me to a trailer shop in Vancouver.
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Gilman on August 22, 2005, 10:35:23 PM
Here's some measurements  :(
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11541/TRAILER.jpg)
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Furby on August 22, 2005, 10:38:24 PM
Well either ya have a really messed up rig, or ya messed up your measurements! :D
Have ya checked the bearings?
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Gilman on August 22, 2005, 10:39:28 PM
I can't Furby, they are too hot and I can't see them because of the smoke.  ;D
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Furby on August 22, 2005, 10:40:33 PM
 :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: wiam on August 22, 2005, 10:43:40 PM
A trailer should not have any toe, but there should be some camber.

Will
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Furby on August 22, 2005, 10:52:48 PM
Right!
I had a DIY job I bought with a small boat.
Used it a bit and then it started eating tires.
Took two tires to go 75 miles.
Well 74.25 miles.  ::)We lost the second tire 3/4 of a mile from the cottage and draged it the rest of the way. ;D
Found the trailer had been made with a bit of toe. Slow speeds it wasn't as bad, but taking it down the highway would eat the tires right up.

Gilman, try taking measurements from the main rail of the mill.
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Gilman on August 22, 2005, 11:07:08 PM
Kathy & I double checked the measurements, they came out the same.

I did however notice this.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11541/DEGtrailer.JPG)

I took the picture with the camera as square as I could to the tire.  Notice the angle the axle is at?
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Furby on August 22, 2005, 11:15:05 PM
I'm starting to think your axel is indeed not installed right.
You said it pulled, well WM are off set a bit from the tow point right?
Is the axel nomally set to compensate for that?
If not, then your axel is off.

Last spring I saw a tractor trailer having all kinds of trouble going down the Eway.
It was one of those with the adjustable axels, the kind where you pull some big pins, move the axels ahead or back, and reset the pins.
Either the pins weren't in all the way and came out, or someone couldn't count and off set the axels on the 53' trailer. :o
The cab and such would run between the lines, but the rear of the trailer was out over the outside line. :D
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Gary_C on August 22, 2005, 11:39:45 PM
What you are describing is usually caused by overinflation. I had that same wear pattern on my F-350 that I used to pull a heavy gooseneck trailer. I usually ran 75 psi in the rear tires (80 psi is the maximum rated) and the centers of the tires wore down faster because over half the time the trailer was not fully loaded. This is the reason that tire manufacturers now call for frequent rotations but you don't have front tires to rotate with.

You should check the weight of your mill and compare with the maximum tire rating. 55 psi seems like too much pressure.

Or it could be just a poor tire design that ballons too much in the center.
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Furby on August 22, 2005, 11:44:43 PM
http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/o_tirewear.html
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Tom on August 22, 2005, 11:54:56 PM
I know you already know this but I have to say it.   

The way a WM is built, the coupler is on one side of the mill and the axle is set at an angle, intentionally, so that it trails in the lane rather than across the middle line.

That doesn't mean that somethng isn't screwed up, but, don't fix the wrong thing. :)
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Gilman on August 23, 2005, 12:10:17 AM
I don't think it is over/under inflation.  The wear is on one edge only of each tire. 

Yep Tom,  I measured the distance from the center of the ball coupler to both tires and they are within 1/2 of an inch.  I can't get much more accurate without more work due to the hydraulic box being in the way.

I the photo, I was trying to point out that the axle isn't perpendicular to the tire.  Ignore the axle frame and the mill frame and just look at the tire compared to the round axle.  Doesn't look right to mee. I did the same visual inspection to the loader side and the tire looked perpendicular to the axle.  I might be seeing things but the operator side tire being out of square to the axle could account for the 1 7/8" of toe.

I can't find any visual signs of structuaral damage that I might have done to the axle to cause this.  It might be time to set up the mill, way off the ground and drop the axle.

I just don't have the time for this in the next few weeks.  I HATE seeing the tires wear like this.

I do appreciate everyone's input in helping me fix this problem.
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Furby on August 23, 2005, 12:17:48 AM
Maybe.............
The rims are bent from messing with some biguns ???
Jack it up and spin the wheel.
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Stump Jumper on August 23, 2005, 06:22:12 AM
i can see the hub is not inline with the axle tube not welded on strait .
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Gilman on August 23, 2005, 11:12:56 AM
Stumpy,
That's kinka what I'm thinking.  I'm going to have a trailer repair shop look at it and give me their opinion.

Having a good idea of how much force it would take to bend the shaft, I don't see any signs of such an impact.  When sawing this winter at the local sawmill, the forklifts were never on this side of the machine.  I also kept the wheel on it so I wouldn't walk into the studs with my delicate shins.  Thus, there should be some signs on the tire & rim of being struck.

I'm still being open minded of why it's out of alignment and how to fix it, but I'm thinking I got a special order Dexter axle, the 5200# lemon axle.
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Gilman on August 24, 2005, 04:44:58 PM
Thanks again for all the input.

I decided this morning to just take the mill over to Woodmizer, Portland.  I showed them the problem and their techs were great.  The tech helping (sorry forgot the name) went and talked to Ken Barton, the Portland manager about the problem.  The tech came back out and got me a new axle assembly.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11541/DEGAXLE.jpg)

I'll replace my axle assembly with this new one and return the defective one to Woodmizer.  They are going to send it back east and see if WM can figure out where the problem came from.

Another satisified WM customer.  8)
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Buzz-sawyer on August 24, 2005, 06:11:41 PM
 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: submarinesailor on August 24, 2005, 06:29:40 PM
Outstanding!!!  Good for you and WM.

Bruce
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Duncan on August 24, 2005, 07:16:55 PM
Stopped by gillman's shop yesterday and looked at it.  Boy is it crooked.  Glad to hear that WM is changing the axle, but I would probably request that they do a big job like that over at their shop since it is resonably close to him?  What do you think Dave?  That way you won't have to deal with going back and forth shipping ect.


??
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Rockn H on August 24, 2005, 07:58:37 PM
That's what I was thinking.  Since the axle kit is premade for a WM it wouldn't take 10 min with an impact wrench and a jack.  And would cut out a lot of running back and forth. ::)
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: bitternut on August 25, 2005, 12:22:08 AM
Don't know why you think an axle needs camber. I know they sell them with a bend but seems as though they do that so they can make the axle out of lighter material.

I welded up this 6 x 12 single axle trailer including the axle. I used schedule 80 pipe for the tube with 3500# spindles and 5 leaf heavy duty springs. This trailer carries a full cord of green split wood with ease and the tires show no sign of wear with a couple thousand miles on them.

Seems as though that axle was  wrong from the start. Don't know how you could bang into something to cause the problem without some other damage being visible. I think they should replace and install a new axle package if it was defective.

Here is a picture of mine hauling a skidsteer. Just slightly overloaded. I think I need to weld up a larger trailer with dual axles.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10129/MVC-007S1%20%28Custom%29.jpg)
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: beenthere on August 25, 2005, 12:28:42 AM
 :) :) :)
Read post #25
Been done already by WM :) :)
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: bitternut on August 25, 2005, 12:32:54 AM
Glad to hear they stood behind their product. Wish I had one parked in my barn. Maybe someday.
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: sparks on August 25, 2005, 08:45:00 AM
Gilman I'm suprised they did not put it on for you. If the axles is defective we cover it parts and labor. If they are close to you and you don't have time to do it, run it over there and they can.  A lot easier to do with a forklift that's for sure.   Thanks
Title: Re: Trailer Tire WEAR PROBLEM on a WM 40 Super
Post by: Gilman on August 25, 2005, 04:45:29 PM
Got the new one on. smiley_sweat_drop It's really a two man job.smiley_smash  I sure am glad that I have a forklift. 
It tracks straight now too 8)

If I were to do it again, I would ask WM if I could help them install it.