I was offered a job that might be right up my alley and wonder what the going rate is--if there is one--for felling, bucking, and topping timber these days. No cinching, skidding, brushing (other than that needed to getthe logs bucked from the bole. Mostly upland hardwoods (no yard trees) but a little Hemlock and WP. I could almost work at my own pace, too (which is dictated by how my back feels most days). The job was offered because the fellow who's been doing it ruins about 50% of the #1s by splitting them (guess he's never heard of bore-cutting?). Is $100.00/mature tree too much to ask?
BTW: I doubt that I've lost "the touch" since I've been dropping a few here and there ever since we sold the tree farm. Just can't get that out of my system!
I just started doing this. Most have been yard tree's, but clear of hitt'n anything. I'm charging $100 and I get whatever I want from the tree and leave the mess where it hit the ground. Anything over 24" I'm going to charge $150, but I haven't done one of those yet.
Your in a different boat as to the tree's your cutting, but the fee sounds fine to me.
In a woodland setting? Sounds like way to much to me.
Giving a price on a job I can't see is dangerous business but $100 a tree sounds very high. I recently looked at a job where that would not have been out of line but it wasn't a typical woodland setting.
For such jobs, I calculate the time it will take do the average tree multiplied by my hourly rate to arrive at a per tree price.
What would be considered a typical woodland setting?? I've looked at a few that are on a small ( overall ) property that a logger wont do becuase of size or whatever. There may be a house on the property, but the tree's are an acre or more away from the home site.
Most of the calls have been right around the yard, but a few have not been.
One of the owners told me she called some logging companies and they would not do her small acerage ( about 4 acres ) and although the tree services would the cost would be more that her house. She stated she didn't want any machines on the place bigger than a small tractor anyway. I think she realy just wanted to be able to see thru the woods
Where does a small job like that fit into the logging industry?? or does it at all? I know this simi woodland work is diff than taking down a yard tree where $100 is significantly less than a typical tree service charge.
Just looking for opinions here.
I recently felled 40 trees for a local farmer who could not do it himself. I charged $60 an hour, which is my mill rate and I had them all felled in 5 hours. He is bucking them and hauling his own logs to a mill. Told him if he is wanting to sell the logs dont bring them to me as I have more than I know what to do with now. ;D
Sounds like Gunny is talking about cutting in a logging operation, not in a tree removal scenario. Deduct 100 bucks from the value of a tree just to lay it down and limb it? Thats what I am looking at. If these are all "situation" trees, then certainly, costs go up dramatically, but I can guarantee, any of the cutters I know, in a woods setting, would be making thousands a day.
I just paid $50 to have 7 12-16" dbh red pine, dropped, limbed topped and skidded to the landing where I could get to them. Granted I got impatient and we went and skidded half of them ourselves, but thats what I paid. If they had been bigger, say 20 inch, what one might consider a more mature size for red pine, I can't imagine paying $700 to have them dropped.
I guess I must not understand the setting your in. If your talking about harvesting 20 " plus trees than $100 is a little high. The work must be real slow and difficult to get that kind of money. Usually rates in that setting are based on cords ($50 - $60 per cord) for skidder, or m^3 ($15-25 per m^3) for a buncher. You run and maintain your own equipment.
Just shootin in the dark ;)
Donk, thats pretty close to what mine translated to. I figured around 700 bf in those 7 trees I had cut.
Thanks for the input, guys. Maybe I need to guesstimate my time per tree--most are over 24" dbh--and use some simple aritmetic to arrive at an hourly rate that can be translated (for the farmer) into a per-tree rate which we can agree upon. It's pretty apparent that whatever the last guy got paid was certainly equal to his lack of skills (I've seen his work).
As always, it's my pleasure to consider all your replies. Merci.
And if you split a tree, will you just not charge for cutting that tree down?
somehow this question is just not right? $100/tree to cut it down and buck it? Not even skid it? Luckily I haven't hired you to do my job because my logger and I aren't even getting $100/ tree on average at the mill. If you are asking how much to charge per hour, that is one thing, what do you need for you time and what is going rate for similar work etc. But if you are charging per tree, then conversation can't even start until we find out what is worth of each tree? I am cutting alot of nice big soft maples down and I am luckily to get $100 for the but log for the nice ones. Muich less after that. Now if these are $1500 cherry veneer trees, then maybe $100 is a good price, depending on your skills in getting the wood safely to the ground.
now maybe this isn't even a timber job whatsoever, just a tree removal job, with worries about houses to hit, grass, etc etc, lots of stuff to ruin with cutting down a tree. But in a woodland setting? I don't understand the question.
I think... for what I'm doing .... I would have to consider it a tree service.... even if the tree isn't right in the yard.
the only people I am talking to, are looking to get rid of the tree's and not looking to get paid for the tree's they have grown. I get paid to take the tree down, but the only mill it's going to is mine, so I guess I'm really getting an hourly rate and not a board foot rate or whatever.
Sounds like--from Kirk (and he didn't buck them) and Don's replies--that I'm not too far from where they charge already. Kirk hit a little under $80.00/tree on that job of his and Don (who even gets to keep the logs!)seems to be somewhere in that area, too. Huzzah for you guys!
I'll see what the "negotiations" bring. I'd even work a barter since the kiln will always be ready for good solid lumber as the days go by. And KD lumber is as good as a FRN any day of the week.
Thanks again, all.
Gunny, might want to do the math again on that one. :) Kirk charged about $7.50 a tree.
60 bucks times 5 hours 300 bucks divided by 40 trees
DonE911 is still talking tree service type charges and keeps the logs because they are tree removal not logging.
Gunny.... again I'm not really logging here.... I guess I'm the alternative to a tree service for those that don't need a logger. The people want the tree's to disappear ... not sell them.
yea i think i agree with jeff thats sound way to high. no offense but i doubt i pay anbody 100 bucks a load just to cut and trim. i know i wouldnt pay 100 per tree cause around here you wouldnt be makin any money. now if you were cuttin trees that leaned over power lines or houses or major roadways yea i can see that but not for a reagular woods setting. thats just my two cents worth
Most hand cutters "logging"general forest trees are paid by the cord or 1000 board feet (MBF) . The common rate for just cutting has been $10.00/ -$15.00/cord or $20.00 - $25.00/MBF.
Cutting and skidding rates have been $40.00 - $50.00/MBF though one is now paying $55.00/MBF due to higher fuel costs, travel distances etc.
A per tree example for just hand cutting@ $20.00/MBF might be:
Cut 3 sawlog size trees @ 350 board feet/tree average = 1.050 MBF
1.050 MBF x $20.00/MBF = $21.00
$21.00/3 tree = $7.00/tree
If I'm just dropping trees for view or to get them on the ground for the land owner, then I charge $35.00 per hr.
The logging job I'm on now, its cut & skid, 1/2 mile skid, $115 per mbf.
Jeff:
Thanks for getting my decimal point in the right place! (Must've fallen on my head again just before doing that math in my noggin.) Thanks all for the input and it's nice to see a decent range within which to work.
Best to all, of course.
I'd go back to falling for $100.00 a tree. Be pretty easy for a good sawyer to get rich. $50.00 a tree would be worth it. ;)
$100 a tree is right for a small wood lot. I charge $30 an hour and to do most trees (without wood removal) takes 5-6 hours depending on the tree. I usually cut up everything to 12" lengths so it is easy for the owner to handle and I cut all the (1"+) tops into small pieces so it makes easy firewood.
Most tree services charge a min. of $90 an hour (I know, I cut for them sometimes) and unless a person has 100+ good trees a logging company will not even come out to look at it. So, for a small amount of trees, I think $100 a tree is right if it falls between a tree removal service and logging.
rebocardo, you're still talking tree service type services, certainly not logging.
You can't pay someone to cut down timber trees your planning on selling for profit at that rate. Gunny is in Michigan. Ron Scott is in the thick of this every day in this state. He works with land owners and loggers and mills and knows what the costs are. His figures are as close as you are going to get for this type of work.
Got to compare apples with apples here.
If it's just fell, limb, buck a medium sized tree, that will take what, 10 - 15 mins. Fell, limb, buck, move to next tree. Yup I'd do that for ~$10 a tree.
If it's taking down a 4ft dbh heavily branched, leaning cypress AND cutting the limbs up for firewood AND cleaning up the mess, heck thats going to take 2 guys all morning.
Ian
Yes, the costs depend upon the constraints and requirements of the job and one needs to place their costs or bids accordingly to whats required of the job.
"Specialized" tree service work usually in a rura/ urban landscape is quite different than falling and bucking trees (logging) in the general forest zone. Tree service rates for large trees are often in the range of $300.00/tree whereby the "logger" doing productive falling and bucking in the general forest is much less/tree. They are usually working on the "normal" forest trees and not on the "character" trees encountered in the rural/urban landscape, often with more hazards and possible structure damages involved.
About the only tree service around these parts is the N. B. Power Corporation. If they see danger trees along the lines, even on your lawn, an orange ribbon gets tied on the tree and the crew comes along and bucks it up. The owner cleans up the mess. Or, if you protest against cutting the tree down, you may or may not win. It's the Power Corp's call. We don't pay for this out in the country, but I heard that they charge in the cities. If a feller wants a tree on a lawn and the owner wants to give it away, that's all he gets. Owners out in the country are just close to their woodlots, and tight with their money. And 99 % of the time the tree on the lawn that has to come down is pretty rotten and most of the time the owner will keep the wood for the furnace. ;D
When it comes to the woods:
I know that most landowners up here in our rural setting won't pay you to cut their trees, they want a stumpage fee and you take the wood and leave the brush. Nobody here that logs will ever clean up brush in the woods, other than to push it off a field edge that may be used for a landing. Anyone logging and looking to get them rates, $100/tree, are gonna find themselves out of work. You can't even get $100/cord at the mill right now. In this kneck of the woods it takes alot more than 1 tree to make a cord. Our hardwood trees just aren't the size and quality you folks have further south. We get way more sawlog volumes from our softwoods.
We have one outfit that pays $70/Mbf for cutting and skidding to the landing. The biggest problem is that they have a different way of scaling so that they can get a big mill overrun, which means that logging cost is lower.
If you are going to do this type of work, make sure you have liability insurance.
Here a power saw operator (fell, limb and cut to length) also stump pile 8 foot small wood works for about 45.00 Mbfm...for saw logs...
He has to buy his own safety gear, saw and gas and oil...
With the recent increases in gas and oil its is hard to get anyone to work..
If he has to drive about 20 miles to the job site I guess they figure it is just as profitable to stay home
and collect employment insurance or welfare...
well, let's see - fuel costs up 90%. Pay is the same. guy doesn't pay on time...what you gonna do? work because you like it?
if the world didnt revovle around money and if everything was free id work because i like it ;D but it does revovle around it so, so much for that idea ::)
Out here, most all of the ground cutters are getting $200 to $250 for a 6 hour day. They are falling, limbing and bucking Douglas Fir, Western Hemlock, Grand Fir and such.
And your talking about trees with 10,000 bf or more each. ;) I cruised some sitka spruce stands in BC with about 3000 m^3/ha (335 cords/acre) and here in New Brunswick I haven't seen a 300 m^3/ha stand of spruce-fir. Theoretically they are suppose to exist here, but hard to find. ;D (200-250 m^3/ha is more realistic).
I see some newly graduated whipper snappers sometimes use a figure like 38 m^2/ha basal area in spruce and fir thinnings (30-50 year old stands) and call it 38 cords/acre. It's way off because the trees are short and small diameter. 22-28 cords/acre is alot closer range, just ask the guy cutting it. You can't make much of a log if the tree is only 5 inches at breast height. And they don't take softwood pulp here with a top under 3 inches. So how much further up the tree do ya have that 3 inches?? ;)
Ron Scott's prices are about dead on for around this area, maybe just a hair low, especially for the skidding. It's nowhere near though $100.00/tree for trees in a forest setting. Most of the mills around here pay around $60.00 to $70.00/mbf for cut and skid, maybe a little more now with the price of fuel. They also haul your skidder from job to job and provide a dozer for putting in roads and landings. Some even provide a dozer operator when needed. I have, on rare occasions, contracted out myself as timber feller/bucker on someone else's job. I charge $60.00/hour for me and my saw in a forestland setting, no powerlines or other man made hazzards. If the timber is nice enough and the timber buyer has no other options, like using a feller-buncher, it can be worth it to them. I did cut and skid a small job for a friend once, but didn't do as well as with timber I buy.
DonE911 asked where do small timber harvesting jobs fit in the forest industry? One place they fit is for a small, owner/operator company with the right equipment can harvest these tracts and do quite well. I sold most of my large equipment and now use smaller equipment almost exclusively, like the size of a John Deere 440 I'm currently running. If the owner of the company is on the ground every day making harvest, bucking, and marketing decisions, he can maximize the value of the timber he is cutting. The smaller equipment allows him to maneuver in tight areas, and has a less imposing presence to the landowner and general public. If the timber buyer owns a mill as well the marketing opportunities are almost endless. With the current fragmentation of the forest resource there should be more and more of these jobs in the future.
i did a small job like that last winter. was only 15 acres, had a barn and 2 houses. none of the trees were saw timber. couldnt even begin to estimate number of trees, and sizes varied from 2" to 20". i just charged an hourly rate for me and a laborer. charged him haul in time on the skidder, and fuel. i kept all the wood. i was cutting pinon and juniper which is only firewood. logging no, yard tree removal no. i bet the average cost to him was probably about $20/ tree to cut, remove, and burn slash. now i have about 35 cords of firewood too.