i have a 2003 woodmizer lt40 super with a diesel. no matter what i do, i NEVER get anywhere near the production rates that are advertised. averaged out for the day i probably only get about 200 bdft /hr. that does include getting the logs to the mill, and off bearing everything by myself, but i am not stacking the 1x, just throwing it in a pile. and the rest of what i am milling is beams, the smallest today being 10' 3x6. i am milling dry blue spruce which has big knots, and feed rate is pretty slow to not have wavy cuts. what do other get for actual production?
On my old LT40 I religiously got 1300 feet a day. I just finally decided that was how fast "I" worked regardless of what the mill's capacity was. Lots of times I could do more. Sometimes I would do less. But, 1300 seemed to be a pretty good average. :)
I just stated that in a reply to the Edger topic.
I have an LT40G25 HD. We usually only hit about 150-200 bdft hr and that was with an off bearer. We typically do about 1200-1400 bdft in a good day, unless the logs are super nice and stacked and ready to go. The most I think we've sawed was around 2300 bdft, of 1x material. We've gotten alot more with 2" stuff. We've also come in well under 1000 bdft because of moving logs, etc.
With the edger, I've seen the numbers go up about 25-35% but the off bearer is doing more work ;)
If you look at the latest shootout numbers, you'll see mills hitting the 900 bdft/hr mark, but that is with an edger and really pushing it for 1hr. Me, I'd don't like to race and work myself to death over an 8hr+ day like that.
When I was first around a sawmill ( Frick with a wooden carriage and a flat belt drive) I was told that 1000bf/man/day was a good target. That was with just a headrig and edger, 3 or 4 men working. Later I had a mill with a gang saw and still found that 1000bf/m/d was a good average (10-15 men). We had more production, but then more men. I figure that with the better yield the rule still applies with my woodmizers. I have sawed 4-500 bf in an hour, but that is rare. With an edger, and loading my own logs, 250bf/hr is a good average. Of course the size of the log and what you are cutting makes a huge difference, not to mention log hardness,sticky pitch, crook, rot, and all those other variables.
Mark
To get any type of production with a super you need at least one or even better two helpers. On my job last week I was getting about 300bdft per hr sawing 3 year old white oak logs. Was sawing for a dairy farmer. Only got in about 6 hrs between milkings. The father had a tractor with loader and always had a log ready to put on the loading arms. The son stacked the lumber on the wagons. On the jobs that I do by myself I have to work hard to get 200 bdft an hour. I have sawed on jobs with good fresh oak logs and good help where I have sawed over 500 bdft an hour for 8 hours. 8) On a few jobs with small junk logs and help that is as lazy as I am, I am lucky to get 100bdft an hr. ;) I think most of the mills can saw as much as advertised, but everything has to be just right. :)
I saw mostly 2x material in softwood spruce and fir. By myself I can get around 175 to 200 ft per hour. With my helper (wife) we can get 225 to 250 per hour. I have done time shots on logs and most time is spent dogging log first and second cut and then there is the carrying of slabs. If my logs were on avg 10 per cent larger I would increase my output by 15 per cent.
Paul
Sawing by myself with 12-18" logs-150-200bf/hr
sawing with large logs I have gotten 300-400bf/hr but the logs were bigger then 24"
Small logs-I sometimes hate to think about it especially if they look like my dogs hind legs. ;D
All over the place.
I sawed 2200' of pine one day, by myself. Many days, I'm happy with 1000'. There have been days that I've been impressed with 500'. It's amazing how important the log handling is....... If things are set up well, the numbers shoot up. As the temp increases, the production decreases. A tender really increases production.
Log length has an impact on the amount you can saw in a day. On my mill, a 16' log is optimum until I put the extension on. You can load a 16 foot log in the same time as an 8 foot log. It takes the same 4 slabs to get rid of. It has to be turned just like a short log and takes only a little more time to saw, but you get twice the footage from the same diameter.
With nice pine logs sawing 2X's at 16 feet, I can get 2500 feet stacked in an 8 hour day. I can get about the same done in a 10 hour day. That's my limit. When I get to spruce, the footage in a day goes down as I have to saw slower or the blade wanders.
Sawing 1 inch I can get 1300 to 1500 feet most days by myself. If I have a helper, the footage goes up to around 800. The rest of the time is talk. :D :D
thanks for all the replies. sounds like i am not experiencing anything different. i cant wait to be done with the blue spruce and start milling some of the 18mbf of lodgepole pine i have sitting there. nice and straight, very few knots, most in the 12 to 14" dia range. today i was milling blue spruce, some with knots up to 4". taking 22" logs with crooks, and lots of taper and big knots.
We've hit and even passed the advertised rate a few times. But our normal output is around half what the factory rates the mill. A lot of our problem reaching these production numbers is small, rough logs. With good, plump logs and everything running right, we can get at or near the advertised production at lest part of the day. Once we get over 1500 bf of hardwood sawn, we're ready to call it a day anyway – even if it's only 2:00pm.
The rates I've seen quoted are for sawing through 12" red oak. Sometimes fresh red oak is a lot easier to saw than many other kinds of wood. Maybe that's the case with your dry spruce with big knots.
A lot of reasons have been hit on why you may not be getting the factory rated production numbers. A couple that I've not seen mentioned are..
1) How well the mill is tuned for the sawing you're doing. I'm thinking about blade choice, guide alignment, tracking, drive belt tension, etc. All of these things have to be in good order to saw at maximum speed.
2) How proficient you are at sawing. For example, Mary and I both saw – same logs, same mill. In times past, I would saw twice as fast as Mary. She has speeded up quite a bit but I typically still saw faster than she does. She's far too meticulous when sawing - taking a lot of measurements – adjusting the log and re-adjusting it. She tends to do things in sequential order. Do this, then do this, then do this, where I'll tend to do a couple of things at the same time when possible. The bottom line is – the blade is cutting the same wood at the same rate but I've reduced the time when the blade is not in the wood by trying to speed up everything else.
Now... I've seen the hotshot guys demoing the mills and they'll saw twice as fast as I do!
A couple of years back I started a post on this topic and we gathered a lot of good information. I later compiled the posts into a document on the Knowledge base. If you've not seen it, maybe there could be some ideas in it that would be helpful.
How to increase band sawmill production (https://forestryforum.com/tips/tips.cgi?display:1048166748-10029.txt)
IF you look at most manufactors numbers they are sawing good logs 12 ft long and of the 16 inch size. They do not count log loading, pile removal, sorting, clean up or getting more logs in the time. That is just bdft per hour of sawing. Count just your sawing time. So load up 8 good 16 inch logs and saw for one hour and see what your count is.
I have a LT40HDG25 and sawing 10inch and larger 8 ft oak logs into 4/4 and 6x8 ties with a helper and edger we can average 2,500 bdft in a 8 hour day of sawing. Thats about 6 hours of cutting so that is just a tad over 400 bdft an hour. Good for a little mill. But if you had ever seen me and Wanda saw it is like second nature and the flow is steady. Solo I can do around 1,500 bdft a day. With out the edger and solo I do around 1,200bdft a day and very tired. But one day while sawing freash pine into 2x6x16 with two helpers and good logs we averaged 600 bdft an hour for 7 hours of sawing. Helpers were worn out.
Looking at the Shoot Out numbers I was not impressed. I hate to say this but the best performance and sawing done was by the Ole Boy who sawed on the Little Baker mill. Good lumber, good recovery and good sawing time. Yep 900 bdft an hour is impressive but like the Ole Boy said it does no good to saw it if you can not sell it or if you waste it and throw it out with the slabs.
So the real question is can you sell all your boards? Do you waste any boards? And can you live on 150 bdft an hour? Just remember that if you are not making sawdust you are not making money. What ever keeps you from making sawdust is the problem not how fast the mill can cut most of the time.
Yes, as stated by almost all of the above, your production will vary based on many things. I feel if you hit the so called majic 1000 bd ft per person per day that is a most realistic target. Though sometimes that isn't possible. I work alone most of the time and have made money from 40 bd ft per hour to over 200. Best alone was 2500 in a day of nice fresh fat straight pine. Best ever was 3800 ft of 2 inch 12 foot oak with log truck and 2 strong helpers.
Bibby's summary page is well worth the read. Thanks again Bibby
How many months/years have you been using the mill Spencer?
How many hrs have you logged?
How much fuel is left in your gas tank at the end of 8 hrs?
Do you have Accuset on your mill?
It's the little things that add up that will slow your production.
I was frustrated in the beginning about the numbers at the end of the day. When sawing, anytime the blade wasn't engaged in the log I asked myself what could have been done different that would have kept the blade cutting. I turned out to be a lot of little things, operator, helper, sawdust, changing blades, oversized logs, no support equipment...
I've been whittling away on those little things and it's made a big difference.
Here's a couple of items I've found that save a little time.
1) I edge against a cant when possible. I saw the cant(s) down to 1 thickness larger than my minimum board width. I edge what I can, flip the slabs and then cut the slabs and 1 board off of the cant at the same time.
I get a free board (timewise) and can put the loading arms down earlier allowing for the off bearer to load the next log while I'm still sawing. Using the cant as a sight guage you can also set your backstops quicker and your clamp height quicker.
2) Add the powered backstop kit from WM to the two manual backstops. They help keep boards square when edging, clamping a cant square, and especially helpful with short logs and crooked ugly logs.
3) Some sort of support equipment with forks.
4) Modified my exhuast chute so I can go two days without having to shovel any sawdust. You can also buy a LT70 for a better chute design. ;D
I believe that production has more to do with material handling than the mills limitations. Many times while sawing 7 by 9 railroad ties on a little LT15 and a 4 man crew of myself my brother in-law and his 2 boys , we were able to go over 2000 ft in a day .
I now have a LT40 and some times have to work real hard to get 1200 ft.
So I would have to say Amen to Arkansawyers statement "If you're not making Sawdust you're not making Money".
Bill
all good points, alot of them things i have though of before. crappy logs being the biggest waste of time. i have a big forklift, and accuset. the software on the accuset has some flaws. today while milling i tried to look at things that were wasting time. one big thing was waiting for the saw head to get high enough to clear big ugly thick knotty slabs. when in pattern mode, it acts like it is in auto-up. the woodmizer people told me that this is normal with the software version i have normal maybe, but definitely slow. (i liked the old version better, but it crapped out completely) another waste of time today was when i am in auto-down, and make a couple of cuts, and the the computer forgets where it is. at that point, i have to try to find where i was before. after doing that several times today i finally smacked the computer. now i wont have to be frustrated for about a week while the new computer get shipped to me.
I couldn't tell ya what my hourly rate might be. I'm not sure I ever sawed for a whole hour at one time. ::) ;D :D :D :D :D
I sawed 2x6's and 2x4's for a customer, 8' logs, I had to roll them up and hardware check, did all the offloading myself. Put out 1000 bft in 4 hrs =250 bft/hr. charged him $50/hr=$0.20/bft
Another customer had 8' pines, we sawed 1x's, 800 bft in 2 hrs. I sawed and he off loaded (he just dead stacked the lumber).
I think you're doing fine at 200 bft/hr. Like what someone here said, you can do a burst rate faster if everything lines up, but by the same token you aren't doing this to kill yourself.
I've had other days where I could only do three logs in the day (6hrs). Of course I was solo, had to stack and sticker all boards, clean up the mess and stack the beams.
ctsawyer
Like Ellmoe said above, the 1000bf/day/man is a good number even today at large circle and some large band mills. We have several in the are running 40mbf/day and up but they're running in the 1000 to 1200 bf/man/day range.
Woodmizer in their infinite experimenting has this beat all to pieces. The LT300 will consistantly put out 2500 bf/man/ 8hr day, or 7500bf/day w/ a 3-man crew.
The suggestions listed above are all dead on accurate. I think it was Biddy who mentioned the out of wood time. That's the one that I find makes the biggest difference. Much more so than feed rates, not that feed rates don't matter.. The efficiency of making stuff happen when the blade is out of the wood and even what you do while the blade is in the wood will make you much more efficient. With accuset you can have all your 'last cut' stuff marked and ready so all you have to do is 'bump' it up and return. The little things are what increase production the most. Feedrate is important but not as important as some people claim, compared to overall effeciency of movement.
Eddie
I agree with Eddie the Farman to a point. However, actually running the saw is only part of the operation. I can pump out some lumber pretty quick if I just drag the boards off into a pile, but it takes so much longer to straighten them up. That is less of a factor when I have help, but I usually work alone, and find it is more efficient to stack them neatly as they come off the mill.
Ed,
We've 'spoken" before about your production, but I have a question. With three men how are you pulling (stacking) 7500bf/day? One sawyer, one edger-man and one stacker? Even if you're cutting cants the green chain operator must be a MAN (or, now, a shell of one!). Are you using a 'stack-trac' or something similar. (Inquiring minds want to know :) ) When I speak of 1000bf /man I include everyone on the yard, including log buckers, loader operators, etc.. Thanks,
Mark
Great read here. Ill add my 2 cents.
Its been said already but Ill say it differently. To get production up, speed to the next cut is as , or even more, important than feed rates. This means a certain amount of support staff and equipment is needed to up the figures. I got some uptown stuff(LT70,Edger, Bobcat, Forklift, receiving table) and workin alone with alla this stuff gets me about 1500 bdft a day(includes bucking,piling,cleaning,yadda). Get a helper and Im up to about 3000. Get two helpers and decent logs/fat cuts ;D, were lookin at anywhere from 3500 to 6000.(Personal Best).
These figures are total daily production and NOT product specific(as in an actual order for a customer).
Of course you have to sell what you cut, so I dont cut unless I have an order.
Of all the time saving features of my mill, the drag back system probably is the most usefull for upping production, followed closely by debarker and Accuset.... ;D
I have kept up with BF. cut on my LT-40 HD. for the 33 months I've had it when divide by the hours on the hour meter it comes out to 400 bf. per hour. ::)
Ellmoe,
We run a 3 man crew. Woody as sawyer sets on the mill. The goal is for him to stay in the seat all day. Man #2 is the Loader/Edger man. He feeds the flitches into the edger primarily, controls the cants which are flipped off the back side of the 'transfer table' into a pile and then slips out to unload incoming logs, load the log deck, move cants and packs of lumber. Man #3 off bears the edger, end trims if needed, grades (when cutting white oak, everything else is sold mill run) and stacks lumber. We keep from 2 to 6 stacks going at any time for varying lengths and grades. He also doubles on both ends of the edger when Man #2 is out on the loader. Man #3 is the physically busiest but he's only worked hard when cutting 12+' lumber. We cut primarily 10' materials and he handles them without any problem.
This system w/ the LT300 regularly puts out 8mbf/day (10 hrs) or equivilant to 6.4mbf for an 8 hour day, or 2133bf/man/8-hr day. Some days less, some days more.
Now to throw a kink in the plan, when we have the logs and my dad or I are available we will run the timber harvester which is set up to feed to the same edger. Man #2 & #3 above then get busy. They edge, off bear and load 2 mills for about 12mbf / day. The sawyer for the TH has to help edge when man #2 is on the loader then to keep everything running smoothly.
The days I'm at the mill I take up all the incoming logs, helps sort and pile logs, help Woody w/ maintanence issues that he can put off till I'm there to keep the mill running and deliver 3 trailer loads of lumber a week. Woody delivers the 4th in the evenings or weekends.
As a side note, the off bearer, man #3, leaves the mill house on a run 2 or 3 times a week at quiting time to go play soccer in the neighborhood soccer game. So, he must not be being worked TOOO hard.
Eddie
Hello,
I sawed on a Timber Harvester 30HT25 and produced 1x's and also ties. I consistently produced 2000 bd/ft 8 hr day. I think they have a great mill and personable people.
Interesting topic,been followingit all. I did some adding today,and my figures tell a lot about my operation.I never really worried about production too much,just had to saw till it was done.
The last few days,I have been cutting Isabel cypress for a neighbor.By Isabel,I mean cypress that was blown down,or over by the storm.Much of it has either a crack in it or shake,so it's not just straight sawing. I work by myself with an all manual mill,an edger,and "Spud", my ancient forklift. I started on these logs last Thursday right after lunch,sawed till about 5:30,started back Friday morning about 8:30 -9:00,worked till 5:00.Sawed all day Sat.,didn't even stop for lunch or anything except to come in and fix another jug of water till 6:30. Spent Monday morning moving slabs,and lumber,doc's appointment in the afternoon,so no sawing.Yesterday,8:15 till5:00,today,had to sharpen blades this morning,started sawing around 9:30,sawed till just before lungh,when I had a somewhat time consuming breakdown,got back sawing just before 4"00,broke a blade right at 5:00,edged,and stacked rindboards till just after 6:00.
Now everything that gets done,I have to do it,load the deck,load the mill,do all the turning ,stack slabs ,and lumber,edge and stack,sharpen blades,EVERTYTHING.Cutting 2x6s,1x6s,2x4s,1x4s,and 1x3s, I had just over 2000 ft at lunchtime today.Now I know that's not too impressive,but I ain't trying to kill myself,and to tell the truth,the time the blade is actualy in the log ,is probably way less than 25%,more likely 10%.
Bottom line,don't matter how fast your mill will saw,if it ain't sawing,you ain't making count. Still 'n all, it's a dang lot better'n GP ;D
Quotei have a 2003 woodmizer lt40 super with a diesel. no matter what i do, i NEVER get anywhere near the production rates that are advertised. averaged out for the day i probably only get about 200 bdft /hr. that does include getting the logs to the mill, and off bearing everything by myself, but i am not stacking the 1x, just throwing it in a pile. and the rest of what i am milling is beams, the smallest today being 10' 3x6. i am milling dry blue spruce which has big knots, and feed rate is pretty slow to not have wavy cuts. what do other get for actual production?
I´m close to that with my little sawmill if I change the blade every 2-5 hours. The soft wood that fell in the storm Jan. 8 is very different now. Some is like fresh wood, other like sawing cotton waste.
If my calculation is right 1M
3=435bf. I´ve made my own rate. If the logs are 10" x 15´ or more I´ll do that in 2,5 hours without any help. Also stacking if the piles isn´t too high.
Best way to hold the production up is to change blade before the cut get wavy. I don´t think the brand or colour of the mill makes a big difference. ;) Pulling a sharp blade through a log is enough but also well working equipment.
Sawing bad logs it takes me longer time to make decision what to do with it and slow down the production.
Swede.