I have to first say that I KNOW this was not the brightest thing to do but what is a man to do when the tree just wont fall :o
I was felling the straightest Osage Orange I have ever seen. 24" DIB and 30+ feet long to the first branch. Best Osage I have ever seen.............almost ;D I had ONE opening to drop this thing through for it to hit the ground but realized when it comes to Osage, a SINLGE branch the size of you finger can stop them from comming down.
Made my notch cut and and then the back cut. 2 inches of hinge and she is going perfectly in the direction I want her to go 8). Wouldnt you know it. ONE SMALL BRANCH hangs on a Honey Locust and stops this beast from falling. Its sitting at about a 45 degree angle and acted like it was going to come down when I pull on some top branches but no go. What do you do? I was CLEAR on both sides of the tree at least 30 feet up so I put on my Gorilla Suite! Climbed up the leaner and started jumping! Ever so slowly down she came but she decided to roll off the stump!
Thus, Log Rolling practice in the Air! It was an interesting ride and I made it down clear to the ground without being thrown from the tree.
Why on earth would I tell this story considering its probably the stupidest thing a person could do. Well, what do you do when one hangs like that and you have no equipment to pull on it, its to far in the woods to winch on it, and you CANT get under it to cut the small tree it was hanging on? Just curious.
Next time you should have backup Kirk - and give them a camera so we can have pictures... You log rolling in the air in the monkey suit just might be worth some big bucks. ;)
I have done my share of dumb things - getting on a horse every week named Toro probably qualifies since I wasn't on a horse more than 2 times before coming here.
I have no idea what to do with a widow maker like that. I know when I was younger we would tie a long rope to it, tie the other to another tree and pull in the middle. Most of the time it worked. I have no idea if we should have done it - but we are still alive.
Once I had a tree leaning on a house after a storm and went outside and was trying to figure out the easiest way to remove it. While I was staring at it, looking for inspiration, my 12 year old daughter walks out and says "Daddy - cut it right there." and pointed at a place. Not having any better idea, I did it. She was right, it came off without doing hardly any damage at all. 8)
Now she is finishing a Phd in Bio-Physics. :o
Perhaps she can support me... ;D
That sounds like something I would have tried in younger days. :D
Understand that I'm no "feller" and my suggestions are suspect. But, I've run into that before. I needed just a little more weight on the top and I didn't want it spin. The only thing I had to work with was the hinge. I have taken the tip of my saw or an ax and judiciously cut away at the center of the hinge, leaving the outside edges intact with the hope that it would stop twist and also keep the log from jumping back over the stump.
Sometimes I could remove enough of the hinge that the resistance was decreased just enough to let the tree fall. Sometimes you've left more hinge than you thought.
Cut the hinge. If it still won't drop, cut a hole close to the butt and use a pole to rock it down.
Another plug for the Game of Logging training...iffen ya haven't taken it sign up
now for the next session.
If ya hang one up the very first thing to do is sit down and take a break. Slow down and study the situation...regain your breath and sense. Maybe even take a nap and the tree will fall down on it's own. Sometimes you can sever the hinge from one side or the other and the tree will roll off the stump and out of the hanging tree.
Quote from: Kirk Allen on September 30, 2005, 07:22:56 PM
Well, what do you do when one hangs like that and you have no equipment to pull on it, its to far in the woods to winch on it, and you CANT get under it to cut the small tree it was hanging on? Just curious.
So how are you gonna get that monster outa the woods....carry it? Just pokin a little fun at ya. If cutting the hinge a little won't roll it out wrap your winch line around the butt and roll it out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/archives/drawings2/tomlogloader01.jpg) :D
kirk
ill tell ya how to get em down in two words TIMBERJACK 240 8) ;D ive found it works quite well to get any tree down ;D. i have seen my pap after the tree is hung up cut the hinge off but i woodnt recommend it unless you know what yur doin because im sure theres more to it than just wackin into the hinge. he knows a little more of what hes doin than i do hes been cuttin trees since he was 12 and he s 58 now so he knows what to do. im sure someone cood tell you what all is to that and how to do it hte safest way but with all the more expeirence i have im not the one to do it :-X
He was looking out for you Kirk.
Another stupidest thing a person could do is blast the offending branch with a shotgun :D ;D :D
Seriously though, 2" x 24" is a lot of holding wood and gingerly cutting the hinge will often bring it down. A tree hung-up on one side will always rotate when the hinge is relieved. A long (crow)bar will give phenominal leverage when the tip is placed in the notch.
Hey, blasting the offending branch with a shotgun sounds like it just might work! Are we speaking from experience Timburr? :o
No, but I know a man who can
Quote from: Ed_K on September 30, 2005, 07:44:27 PM
Cut the hinge. If it still won't drop, cut a hole close to the butt and use a pole to rock it down.
This is what i was going to recomend.
I'm impressed that you had the Gorilla suit out there with you. ;D :D
Count your blessings, but I say "good job" (but do more cogitatin for a longer period of time the next time).
Glad 'ol Jim didn't have to send us a sad note about the way you been gettin trees down. ;D
All of us can learn from this however. It doesn't work this way all the time.
(But it reminds me of when I was a kid and we'd take turns climbing to near the top of aspen trees growing close together, while the tree was chopped down with a hatchet. Then the one in the tree would ride it down through the other trees whilst trying to hang on, not let go, and not get brushed off on the way down. Took down a lot of trees that way, and had some fun - and lived). ::)
Golden Boy stikes again eh? ::) (One of these days I'm gonna find a shaking head smiley!)
Quote from: Larry on September 30, 2005, 07:54:00 PM
So how are you gonna get that monster outa the woods....carry it?
Rule #1, NEVER doubt Kirk!
You may just see a Gorilla walking out of the woods with that tree over his shoulder and picking his teeth with his free hand! :o
WOW. Great input. Thanks
As far as the hinge goes, once the tree hung I did take a break and access the situation in GREAT DETAIL. First I bore through the center of the hinge. Nothing happen. Then I cut the right side, hopeing it would twist. Nothing happen. After cutting the left side of the hinge the tree just sat there. It did not kick up past the stump like I expected but instead just kind of wedged itself into the stump.
It didnt take much weight to get her to come down. A couple good jumps and she came down real corgile like ;D
Now, how am I going to get it out of the woods you ask? Simple. What I needed was 50" sections of straight Osage to quarter saw for Bow limbs. I put a deer drag strap on that section and drag it to where I can get my winch cables to it. Instead of waisting time with the winch I did just go ahead and drag the first three out but I have about 12 more to go.
I may have to get Chad to help me Tuesday on the lower end of the tree since I couldnt move the 24" DIB section more than a few feet before it kicked my tail. I could go back each day and get a little closer to the winch line ;D
ONE BITE AT A TIME!
I sure wish that stuff grew like that around here. All I've ever seen of Osage Orange was shrub like stuff, but then again, maybe I didn't look in the right spots....
those hung up trees can be dangerous, I've done some really dumb stuff getting down hung up trees, once something so dumb I won't talk about it where somebody else might get the idea to try it themselves....
We are truly blessed around here when it comes to Osage. Ours are STRAIGHT, TALL and BIG, I mean REALLY BIG!
When Mike (curlywoods) came here I thought I was going to have to find a surgeon to put his jaw back in place when saw these beasts!
With those sections only 50" long, another way to get them out is to roll them - with a couple 3" lag bolts and large washers, lag the end links of a log chain into the center at each end, then pick up the chain and walk out with the log rolling behind. Works if the hills are not too steep and the path is wide enough to walk. I recommend this only if wheeled vehicles are not alternatives. ;D
do you have a log arch, Kirk? the calculator shows a 5' section 24" in diameter to be 974lbs!!! whatcha waiting for?!?!?
A cant hook is a handy tool if a widow maker just needs a little roll to get it down ;)
How bout throwing a rope over the top part of the tree, standing safley to the side an pullin her down. Arborists use a big slingshot with slickline and a weight to get the slickline up, a bigger line tied to slickline with an eye on one end to facilatate a knot. Guess you need to have the stuff to do that though.
Make your winch line longer. Get some chains or another piece of cable.
Having turned in my monkey suit, (broke my toe the other day) I'd have to throw a chain around the butt hook it to a tractor or truck, finish cutting the hinge and take a small drive ... I've done it several times with good results.
I've tried to do the monkey thing with poor results befor... not enough nerve or hung up too well...
Yep I'm a certified bone head.
Eric
If we can't get a picture of you jumping on top of an osage orange in the air, can we at least get a shot of the log that amde you crazy enough to put on your gorilla garb and jump on top of a tree ;D Pretty please can we get a picture ;D
The smart thing would have been to get more cable, like Cedarman suggested but that would mean a 20 mile ride to town. You know how time is so valuable so that thought was only a flicker in my brain. \
I tried to roll it off with my A.S.S. from LogRite but the tree was just to big.
If that section is over 900 lbs that may explain why I could only drag it a few feet before I was WHIPPED.
The lag bolts and chain idea sounds good but where these trees are there must be a hackberry or Hickory sappling every 3 feet. It might work but I think it may be time for the logging arch after all. Sure would make things a LOT EASIER.
I will try to remember to take the camera with me and get some shots of it.
For a hung tree, assuming that it will come back off the stump and kill you as soon as you cut the hinge or it will barberchair, what I have done in like situations is wrap chain around the butt end of the log, cut the hinge and still leave the butt end of the log resting on the stump, then pull the tree backwards over the stump. If the butt end gets in the dirt, there is no way to move a large tree without heavy equipment like a Hough. SO, over the stump is a better way.
If it was just a single branch hanging it up, I think I would have thrown cable around it and broken it with my truck. 1/4 cable will rip through a 3" branch easily enough.
I don't think I would ever climb into any tree that was snagged, or the snagger, or fell a jackpot. I would take it down with more cables, blocks, or get heavy equipment help.
Kirk, get a good length of quality three strand rope and a rope winch, a throw bag and some throwing line.
Throw the bag up and over the tree, tie the rope to that line and pull the rope up and over the tree.
Tie a running bowline in the rope and send it up to the top where it's hung up.
If you can't pull it down by hand put the winch on it.
I deal with hung up trees weekly. ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/Batchewana2.jpg)
If I get a tree hung up I borrow my brother's 70 HP Positrak (skid steer on rubber tracks) with the Fransgard winch on it. Have't found a tree yet it couldn't get out but now always on the first try. Sometimes I need to change angle or something. Generally I first cut the hinge before I decide it is really hung up but not always and I study the situation a long time before acting. So far it has worked although one time I had to hook my 4 x 4 tractor on and then have my brother hook onto the hung tree while I anchored the Positrak, otherwise the tracks and winch blade just slid towards the hung tree. I backed my tractor up against another good size tree and chained it to the Posi, then it pulled the hung one out. Whew, I'm tired just talking about it again. I like it better when they fall as planned! 8)
Seems like the throwline would be the safest way. You dont have cut the hinge much and you dont need heavy equipment. It should be easier to pull the top/lighter part of the tree a lil sideways off the branch in wich it's hung,than the bottom of a 24 in tree
Glad you are still here to tell us about it Kirk. That is scary stuff.
Kirk, We all have to remind ourselves from time to time- There isn't a tree out there worth getting hurt or killed for.
I sounds scarier that it realy was. I had room to jump off the tree on both sides if needed and about 10 feet on either side of the tree were larger trees that would have prevented it from rolling onto me if I did jump. I dont care to do it again anytime soon but I will say it was an interesting experience.
I am going to look real hard at the Log Arch while at the Paul Bunyan show to make getting them out easier.
I am not hugely experienced at felling but in that scenario of a hung up tree I sometimes measure my first log length (i.e. 6') and take out the first section. You do risk splitting the log but it usually drops the tree enough to make it fall! Maybe not the best tactic for high quality logs but it works!
As for getting the 50" lengths out have a look at this. This Oak log was probably about 20"- 22" diameter and 60" long. Whilst this tree fell out into an open field an ATV can get places other machinery can't! ;D Very usefull for this shorter stuff! ;D I then had a one mile uphill ride back to the mill, the ATV loved it! I know this is not a tactically great spot to have the mill but what can you do if you live on a hill? ???
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12520/log_trailer2.jpg)
Well Kirk, being as I am older and wiser than you I should say I have never done that, nor have I ever stood beneath a leaner and cut down the tree it was hung in. But then I would be fibbin'. That was in my younger and more daring days when I thought I was invincinble. Now that I know better I first look to mechanical salvation, if that isn't available I think Kevin has the best method. I would add that ole' Kevin is a pro and still around to give advice so he must know a thing or two ;)
Who has that DanG gorilla suit? Think I need to borrow it. ::) ;D ::) :-[ :-[
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/hung.jpg)
Kirk, good to hear ya still have both legs, and all yer teeth (Well, as many as ya had before your foolish adventure).
Here's a tip for those who can use it. If ya want good rope for using in the woods/farm, go to your local Rock CLimbing centre (or look out for one next time you're in a big city). They usually have ropes they're retiring. Sometimes static, sometimes elastic, either will do (the elastic ones only stretch about 5-10% when they are new). Go in and ask them for some retired rope, tell them you are going to use it on a farm, and make sure you tell them that you are NOT going to use it for climbing. They usually just cut it up into small pieces and throw it out. (cut up so some goon doesn't rescue it out of the bin and climb with it).
You will probably find they'll be happy to give it to you, and they make FANTASTIC utility ropes.
asy :D
So...looks like nobody is gonna admit to having the suit. :D Kirk probably don't wanta share. ;D Guess I'll do it the hard way...pick it up and throw it on the ground. :)
Good loggers don't need no gorilla suit. Might need to work on my aim little more though. :-[
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/unhung.jpg)
I had the suite but I was in Ohio have spending some QUALITY time with MntJAck and several other FF members. Dont realy need the suite to get that one down. Looks kinda small so just send a chimp up the tree to jump a couple times!