Goodmorning all, I've been peeking in your window for quite sometime and figured since its snowing and 10 degrees i'd come on in and sit a spell if'n ya dont mind.
Just got registered today but i feel like i know some of you already. I'm puttin my boots on right now to go out to the truck and get pictures of the new bandmill i'm building.cause i know how much we all love pictures.
I may need some advice on how to get them pictures into this post.
Welcome RichlandSawyer. A lot to info to learn on this site.Not has quite as cold in Mid Missouri.
Ron
Hello and welcome
yes indeed pics are the thing here
iain
Man this photo posting takes forever
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/Pict0002.JPG)
as you do it a few times, you'll see the photo posting comes along pretty easy.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/Pict0005.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/Pict0003.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/Pict0004.JPG)
I'm gonna be done with the mill before i get pictures posted
welcome aboard RichlandSawyer looks like you'll have a fine mill there :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/snow.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/Pict0009.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/Pict0007.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/Pict0008.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/Pict0006.JPG)
You were right posting photos is getting alittle easier.
Wife said i need to space out my pictures more
Welcome to this great group of sawyers.Having built one of these myself,I can see that you are going to have a real nice mill,well thought out design.Two things I should've done are...1...use two b belts to drive saw instead of one and 2. buy some good guides instead of making them.Keep them pics coming 8) 8)
Quote from: RichlandSawyer on December 02, 2005, 01:58:32 PM
Man this photo posting takes forever
Your are a lot faster than when I first started posting pictures. :( Took me two years to post my first picture. ::) It does get easier after a few pictures. Now I can take a picture , resize it and have it posted in two minutes. If the dialup was not so slow, I could do it in a minute. ;)
Welcome. Nice looking mill. I could not wait for a gaurd to throw the first log on mine. ::) ::) But then I put one on. How much track???
Will
Welcome to the club! 8)
That saw sure has a nice wide throat. How big of a log will you be able to do and what's your max. width board? Looking good!
Rich,
I fine tuned yer earlier posts, now yer wife should be happy. ;D
Nice lookin' project. What's yer plans for da power plant?
RichlandSawyer,
Good to see another Iowa Sawyer here at the Forestry Forum ;D
Get your wife to register too so she can critique your posts and photos :D
ElectricAl
RS,
Welcome aboard 8) 8) 8)
You got the pic thing down pretty quick......it took me forever :-\ :-\
Thanks for all the real nice comments,
wanted to answer some questions then i will give some history about the mill and how it came about.
Chet , wife says thanks for fixing the post she said it looks much better! and to answer your question its gonna have a 24hp honda v-twin.
Brad, i havent installed blade guides yet but it should be 35 inches between guides when they are set all the way out.
Wiam, I started building a trailer last saturday before the weather turned bad and it will give me 18 feet of cut. if neccesary i will build an extension to bolt up to the end. cant really see needing it but if the need arises i'll throw something together.
This whole project started out as me wanting to buy a bandmill but couldnt talk myself into spending the money so my wife asked me if i could build one i said sure i guess so but that would be a lot of work. Her response was then buy one and i said they are too expensive. So being the sage of wisdom she is she told me "Then quit whinning and build your own". So i started doing research and drawing and calculating. I bought #60H roller chain at a farm auction for $12 for 50 feet brand new stuff. i bought 2x3 tubing from farmer/steel seller for 40 cents a pound wormdrive gearbox from ebay, so what i'm saying is i'm a cheap skate. The kicker to this story is some guys i work with were giving me a good ribbing about tha fact i buy tools from harbor freight(got a store just up the road) so they said bet you cant build that sawmill with harbor freight hand tools, i said bet i can!!! The entire mill has been built with a 14" chopsaw, 4 1/2"angle grinder, 3/8 drill and an old 1960 something westinghouse handywelder i bought from mmy granddad 15 years ago.Oh yeah and 10lbs of 3/32 6011 welding rod .I'm thinking about emailing harbor freight and see if they need a spokesperson. :D Believe it or not this is my first experience with a bandmill, been around the foley belsaw circle mill and resawed logs on my 18"jet bandsaw in the shop but never run a bandmill cant wait to get her up and running.
well i've rambled on long enough for now
Welcome a board RichlandSawyer. Good to have another member from Iowa here. :)
I love your access doors to the band wheels. That's one of my biggest complains with my hudson mill. Everytime I need to change A band, I have to take the gaurds off.
Nice looking mill your building. Welcome to the FF.
Richland,
Glad to see that you went with steel band wheels, how big in diameter are they? Hope that you found good souce to buy them, they are not cheap.
Looks like you are using Cooks Saw as a pattern for your mill. Your workmanship looks real nice.
D Frederick,
They are only 19 inch wheels but i designed the guard to take 26 inchers ifi decide to upgrade. I actually started designing before i ever saw a cooks mill but you are right it does look a lot like there mills (i guess great minds think alike). The wheels did come from cooks i did some research and really liked the way they balance there wheels. Not knowing much about band mills i have managed to gleen from all posts here and on other message boards that a smooth running blade is pretty important.
Again thanks for all the nice comments, it started snowing again this morning, its colder than three day old doggy doo and my boiler ignition controller went out last night so i better get it running, wifes getting cold. If i can scrape up more pphotos i'll try and put some up later today.
richland, how did Cooks balance their wheels. I have one(idler) wheel that wheel they balaned it the drilled about 2 or 3" of holes in the root of the sheave and it squeezed the sides of the angle in so the tire has a slight hump in it. Still havent firgure out how to fix.Its not real bad but iratating. Im just about to the end of the first set of tires need to get new ones before I hit steel.
Lamar,
Cook's doesnt use rubber tires they are all steel wheels. That way they are not effected if you use petrochemicals for lubrication such as diesel or kerosene. The drive wheels are chucked into the lathe using the taper lock bushing that comes with the wheel and then the bushing and the wheel are both marked so when you assemble it on your mill they go back together the same way they were balanced.
As i stated earlier i really have no experience with bandmills but i do know a lot about industrial machinery and this makes good sense to me. Also i went with a spring backed tensioner instead of hydraulic because i think without the rubber tire on the wheel there would be no shock absorption using a hydraulic tensioner.
Could cause a real problem with blade breakage.
If anyone else has any input on this subject i would really appreciate hearing from you. I would hate to get this mill done and find i i've been smoking corn silks this whole time and end up with a 3000lbs. paper weight.
Thanks RS
RichlandSawyer.
One of the things that I like about using a Hydraulic tensioner with gauge like Woodmizer has is that you can get a pretty good idea when the blade is getting warm and stretching. Correct me if I am wrong on this but it appears to me after the blade has been on a while that the loss of pressure ussally indicates that the blade is getting dull or you need to have some lub on the blade to clean it up.
Just my thoughts
Ron
Hey Richland, how bout' an update on that fine mill your building? I know Christmas has probably got you runnin'. We're sorta' waiting on some more pics. ;D
I now have a rolling trailer for the mill head and was all excited about getting the head up on it.
Then i realized that if i put it on i cant get it back into the garage to work on it. The head is about 2 inches too tall to fit back in. Between the holidays and work seems like i've passed myself on the highway a time or two. I have to tell you i'm really starting to develope a complex over this mill building project. Almost everyone that comes by and sees it says the same thing ( You built that yourself?!?!?).
Just what are they trying to imply? Anywho,
Waiting on parts right now Harbor frieght had leveling jacks on sale but they sold all but three the day the sale started, guess theres a lot of trailers being built around here, suposed to get a new batch on the shelf tomorrow so i'll swing by the store and see if they aint pullin my leg. The wife says hey to everyone, she enjoys reading the banter between everyone. And for some reason she seems to have a thing for Bibbyman, not sure what thats all about, she says he reminds her of Red Green.
Well i really have to go the sun just came out and i'm gonna run outside and stand in it. havent seen that big fireball forever.
Quote from: RichlandSawyer on January 09, 2006, 12:33:22 PM
......... if i put it on i cant get it back into the garage to work on it. The head is about 2 inches too tall to fit back in.
Did you try letting some of the air out of the tires, just to get it in and out? ................... We're still waitin' for pics................ at this point we'll take any pics, even a flat tire. ;D
Quote from: woodbowl on January 09, 2006, 01:05:31 PM
Did you try letting some of the air out of the tires, just to get it in and out? ................... We're still waitin' for pics................ at this point we'll take any pics, even a flat tire. ;D
Or run the head to one end or the other an tip that end of the trailer down so the head clears the door frame?
Hey Fellars!!
I pulled the trailer outside and took some pictures for ya.
Got some good closeups of the logdogs.
Here is the trailer
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/trailer.jpg)
This is the first log dog i installed
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/logdog.jpg)
This is the second log dog its still laying on the bench waiting to be installed
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bowser.jpg)
Welcome to the forum.
I am getting a little jealous though as you seem to be moving right along with that mill and I can't seem to make any head way on the projects that I have going. Seem to be spending to much time making sawdust. Then again theres no way you can spend to much time making sawdust.
Hello to all!!
UPS guy just came and he left me a brand new set of blade guides!!!(finaly something i didnt have to build myself) tomorrow its off to the steel supplier to get tubing to make slides for them bad boys. I finaly settled on a design for log clamps and gonna work on those at the same time as the roller guides. I like to keep two projects going at once that way when i get stumped on something i can walk away clear my head while doing other things. All the leveling jacks got welded on and in my spare time i'm still trying to come up with some earth shattering new invention for getting logs up on the bed. i'll be sure and snap some pictures as the blade guides go on. I'm planning on using UHMW polyethelene for linear bearings on the roller guide adjuster, hopefully it will slide easy with no side movement, keep your fingers crossed.
I would also like to say that with all the comments flying around about MD I personaly would like to give a big pat on the back to the fine folks at Cooks Sawmills, They have done me well with bandwheels and blade guides and have been very kind and helpful. A real class act, the cook boys should be proud of there operation. I'm not sure if they ever read this forum but if they do you folks should consider a sponsership.
One last thing, I would like to thank Jeff and all the members of this message board, I could have spent a million dollars on books and never gotten the amount of information i have received from you folks. I dont know how someone could ever say thank you enough. I have been reading old posts and archives on here for about a year now and still find something new and interesting everytime a do a search.
RichlandSawyer
RichlandSawyer ,
Any guess yet as to the material cost you'll have in it when finished ?
Is this your motor ?
http://www.sunrental1.com/honda/engines/html/vtwinengine.htm
Hey Folks,
Got them new blade guides almost on so i thought i'd share some pictures.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bladeguide1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bladeguide5.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bladeguide2.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bladeguide3.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bladeguide7.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bladeguide8.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bladeguide9.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bladeguide4.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bladeguide6.jpg)
Hi Shawn,
I'd be happy to give out that info. The bandwheels came from Cooks sawmills, you can get there prices online, the wormdrive gearbox for raising the head came from ebay, i think it was around 40 dollars. the guides also came from cooks, trailer parts are Northern, and bearings and pillow blocks all came from a couple farm stores, also the weld on sprockets came from the farm stores. I could have gotten the bearings cheaper if i ordered them online but i really wanted to see them in person before i purchased. The steel for the project came from a farmer who sells steel seconds he buys from streel distributors. The 3x2 tubing cost me 40 cents a pound but it was rusty and took me hours with the palm sander to clean it up. The small pieces of steel and shafts came from a local steel supplier, Took me awhile to find one that actually wanted my business. since i was only buying $75 to $100 when i went in most where very nasty to me.
Finally found a small place that the ladies at the counter are sweet as cream and were happy to get a $100 steel order.
If you have any more questions just ask!!
RichlandSawyer
Since this is my thread i decided to rename it to something more descriptive of whats going on in here.
The new roller guides need more welding they will be permanent. I have to say when planning this project the two things i was not looking forward to was the blade guard and the blade guides and i must say i was not dissapointed. The blade guides are hands down the most difficult pieces to attach to the mill. to get them rock steady while out in the middle of the balde is extremly difficult. If anything happens to the movable guide on there now i'm pretty sure i will change the design again. If you are building your own mill make sure you give this some serious thought and maybe start working on mocking it up before you actualy get to that part of the mill. The next challange is squaring arms and log clamps, i have a design for that just need some warm weather.
More in a bit.
8) 8) 8) Everything looks and sounds like they are coming in place. I thought about building a mill of my own some time ago. While thinking and trying to draw up some plans I found a second hand WM for a decent price. Had to buy it as I deperately needed a mill ASAP. Would still love to build my own though but it'll have to wait.. Keep those pics a coming and take your time building. Any project that large takes some major critcal thinking and will rely on that till the bitter end. ;) ;) 8)
Brad.
I was impressed with Cook's mill, too - I added my own options but I did not have the oomph to build it from the getgo. Looks like you have done a fine job.
Goodmorning all;
I was just stopping in to take a little poll, I was doing some calculating over the weekend and given the components i have on my mill i determined my blade speed would need to be 5300 fpm for minimum resonance. So i was just curious what other people are running for blade speed in relation to wheel size and guide type. Any information would be greatly appreciated for future reference. Thanks!
Welcome to the forum Richland! ;D That is a nice looking mill, and it looks like very good craftsmanship. Everytime I look at my mill I wish I would have built it myself. I will build one someday. Maybe I can get the plans from you. Happy sawing!!! 8)
Doug
Quote from: RichlandSawyer on February 21, 2006, 11:49:51 AM
....... for minimum resonance. ..........
Curious as to what this variable is? a frequency? I'll 'stay tuned' for some enlightenment. :)
beenthere,
I'm using 1 1/2" drive shaft and double pillow block bearings, normaly rotaional speed of the shaft wouldnt really be an issue but because of the amount of side loading on the shaft from tensioning the blade i'm limited on rpm. I could run faster but above 1122rpm on the drive shaft the bearing life would be reduced greatly. If i would have used a larger shaft
i could run faster but bearings over 1 1/2" are not readily available localy. Well atleast not at a reasonable price.
loudsam, thanks for the kind words, There were a few times i thought i was crazy for undertaking this kind of project out of the home shop but i cant imagine not building my own mill. It has been quite the experience. I cant wait to get this one done and get started on a swinger. 8)
Richlandsawyer, hang in there, it'll come together one day. When I built th mill in 1999, I thought I had it just right. What you'll find out is that you'll see little things you'll want to improve on. I spent 90 days building this one. One mistake I made was machining my 20 wheels, etc instead of buying them. My lathe would just swing the wheels. Ain't it fun ?
Just read through this thread and am very impressed with your progress. Keep the pictures coming, as well as the commentary. I can tell that you have really done your homework here as I was thinking of doing the same thing as you... although I don't think I could have made it look so easy. Great Work
I appolagize if i have made this look easy :D it's anything but easy!!!
you fellars are right though i have already found problems, well maybe "problem" is to strong lets just say some small issues but nothin' that we cant overcome. one issue is thre front lifting chains i have them wrapping back up to the carriage but i realized after the idle sprockets were on and the chains routed that the one on the port side is gonna get gunked up with sawdust so its gonna have to be ran another direction. i'm still not sure the blade guides are rigid enough
but that one is gonna have to wait till i run it a few times. If work cooperates i want to start installing the engine the first week of march. They just dont seem to realize i'm building a mill here and keep coming up with more contracts.
And those log clamps, why do we need log clamps anyway!!! I thought i had that all figured out but i changed my mind again.
I'd like to say one last thing, i started this project because i was to cheap to lay down the money for a manufactured mill but it has become so much more and i would encourage anyone thats on the fence about building there own mill, just jump in with both feet its a terrific adventure. smiley_wavy
Morning all, I've had alittle free time and done some work to the mill so i thought i'd share some pictures.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/mill3_3_2_06.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/mill1_3-2-06.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/mill2_3_2_06.jpg)
Last weekend the boys and i made a trip to southdakota to visit grandma. One thing i noticed was there really arent any sawyers in their area. Just cant seem to figure it out.
SouthDakota
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/southdakota1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/southdakota2.jpg)
Termites are REAL bad there.. :D
I read somewhere that a bandmill should be setup so one side of the blade hits the log first to avoid chatter while starting the cut. Is there any truth to this or is it just hooie?
RS
I've wondered several times why the band isn't set up to cut 'back' maybe 10° so the teeth aren't cutting square with the grain, but rather at a back angle to that grain. Seems if one drops a chainsaw into the end of a log, there is a bit more chatter than if angling it and cutting a little bit with the wood grain. Just wondering. Maybe the blade would get off course if it didn't enter the end of the log across the full cut at the same time.
Now, if I had a band, I'd try angling the ends of a few logs and see what would happen, but alas, I can only wonder. :(
Quote from: RichlandSawyer on March 02, 2006, 12:08:29 PM
Last weekend the boys and i made a trip to south dakota to visit grandma. One thing i noticed was there really arent any sawyers in their area. Just cant seem to figure it out.
Aw heck - I'm almost done with my bandmill and someone else got to the last tree! :D It will take a little while to get trees lined up I guess. ;)
Jim
Sioux Falls, South Dakota
(one of at least six sawyers in the area......)
jrokusek,
They are west river folks and dont think there aint but a dozen trees in all of Trip county :D
Ok well i may be stretching that a bit but they are pretty scarce over there. My parents farm 1600 acres west of Winner. Hogs,cattle and sheep also.
Quote from: RichlandSawyer on March 03, 2006, 01:06:34 AM
jrokusek,
They are west river folks and dont think there aint but a dozen trees in all of Trip county :D
Ok well i may be stretching that a bit but they are pretty scarce over there. My parents farm 1600 acres west of Winner. Hogs,cattle and sheep also.
And prairie dogs...don't forget about prairie dogs...... :D
Heck we have 400 acres and must have at least 40 trees on the whole thing. The rest of you guys with your cherry and walnut growing everywhere make me really jealous!
Jim
how well does the blade guide work? that looks pretty slick. I need to do something with my mill's blade guides
Hey Dan,
The guide moves very nicely but there is a little slop in the whole thing but i think a bigger pair of drill press vicegrip will shore that up. The small one i put on there just doesnt seem to have enough "lead in its pencil". The white guide blocks on top are Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene [UHMWP] . I used the drill press vice grip because it will clamp the guide rail without damage to the metal like a set screw.And makes for quick and easy adjustment of the guide. As for the real world test we'lll have to wait alittle longer. Its so close to sawing wood i can smell the sawdust.
Howdy all;
A friend stopped by to see the new mill, he is an engineer from john deere specialized in redesigning problems with cotton pickers already in the field. He looked over the mill and had a few suggestions. His recomendation was to power the mill with a 6 cyclinder diesel engine running a hydraulic pump and power the band drive with a hydraulic motor. I told him i had already considered this but was gonna use a honda v-twin until an over paid john deere employee came along and offered up the additional parts for free. His response.. "LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE DOING A FINE JOB, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!
I guess thats a no on the donation of equipment. Sure would be nice to have that hydrostatic drive on the blade though.
I am thinking that 21 sawshop did build some of their bandmills with an angle cut ,not sure how they worked out but it would seem that it would be good.
Hello again,
Cant believe its may already. I done some work to the mill so i thought i'd stop by and share the progress.
The big red 24hp honda arrived about a week ago and man is she perty. (side note: UPS guy said "I thought you were just joking about delivering a sawmill one piece at a time!!!) guess the jokes on him. Anywho mounted the motor and fired it up. Idles pretty rough when its cold but seems to smooth out when it warms alittle. I spent a full day lining everthing up and tracking the band. Then came the big test running it with the band and guides in place I ran it up to full throttle and its smooth as glass. All seems to be going well. I've got more work to do on the squaring arms and clamps then its time to throw a log on and have a go.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/engine1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/engine2.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/engine3.jpg)
I made these really cool jack bolts to slide the motor and tension the belt but what you cant see in the picture is there is no way to get a wrench in there to turn then. The oil filter and lines to the oil cooler wont let me get to the bolt. Guess thats the fun part of homebuilt.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/engine4.jpg)
RichlandSawyer
About the lead on the band entering the log, I have only seen one mill made this way, a European design. It reduces the support on the band and you have more blade in the log.
I was looking at your guide set-up and was wondering how do you align the guide to be in the same "plane" as the band is when you move the guides in or out? They have to track your log rest to saw a square board.
Hi everyone,
I just finished a log dog and thought i'd share some pictures and see what ya'll think.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/logdog1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/logdog2.jpg)
D_Frederick, I can adjust the drive wheel up and down to get it lined with the blade guide then the entire carriage is hanging on roller chain so it can be tipped in any direction by adjusting the lift pins on the end of the chains. Also the carriage can be moved so one side of the blade will lead into the log or it can be left straight.
That aught to work RichlandSawyer. The only problem I see is ........ you should have moved that big ol' sheet of card board so we can see what kind of good junk you've got! ;D
Man I could use some good junk right now :)
GREAT job Richlandsawyer :) Keep up the good work. By the way, you realize that by putting those red pipe clamps on there that you are just creating a good target for something metal to saw off.... right?? ;D psssssttt... I've already tried to saw mine off but SHHHHHHH about it
I've thought about that because of all the conversations here about decapitating dogs and being an industrial controls expert i've considered making that part of the mill idiot proof. But from what everyone says you are not a true bandmiller until you have scars on the log dogs. So i may hold off until i make some perty red paint fly.
I see he's got a nice red wagon... but we want see more.. ;D
RichlandSawyer
I hate to say it, but I think that you will find that your dogging system is not stiff enough to hold a large log or cant. Your idea is not bad, but you need heavier material.
D_frederick,
I'm kinda worried about that too but figured for $1.99 each at HF i'd give it a try and hopefully it will get me through this year and this winter i'll try to add hydraulics. Its hard to test it strapped to the bench, should have it on the mill in a couple hours and i'll let you know how strong it is.
RS.
The day has finaly come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by the way the log dog works pretty well, the angle iron piece needs an angle brace but the rest seems like its gonna work good.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/firstlog1.jpg)
The first cut on the new mill (i cant stop smiling)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/firstlog2.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/firstlog3.jpg)
Great job Richland! Looks like you got the mill to cut nice and straight. Keep the pics rolling !
Man, that's outstanding! Nice work and congratulations.
Scott
Just got back from the bathroom checking the mirror. Still smiling, that chunk of walnut has been laying out in the weather for 8 1/2 years waiting to be milled and the inside looks perfect. I'll slice off a couple pieces and make some nice shelves to comemorate this day.
Oh by the way i was only running half throttle and that blade went through there like it was nothing.
HURRAY! 8)
Waytago, RichlandSawyer!! 8) 8) 8) You've done a great job with that mill.
Now, have you any thoughts about what sort of chunk of wood you're gonna send Jeff for the ForestryForum ceiling? I've got an idea, but it is entirely up to you. ;D
Has all the earmarks of success.. 8)
Congratulation on your triumph RS.. 8)
Looks like you've got it going your way. Congradulations. Ain't it sweet????????????
Nice lookin' rig you built. Glad to see it works great too. You must be as proud as a new dad. Congrats on the accomplishment. :)
Thats a nice looking, nice cutting mill you got there. I hope mine turns out.
Congrats on the mill, often it is the finishing of a project that excedes the joy of starting ;) 8) 8) 8)
I had to go to work for a couple hours this morning to check on some networking equipment i moved over the weekend.
Before i jumped in the truck i went into the shop to make sure i had really cut wood last night. Just wanted to make sure i wasnt dreaming.
I still have a lot of work before the mill is ready for serious cutting but we're well on the way.
Still giddy!!!!
Buzz the first cut of steel and the first weld were fantastic but it wore off fast as the months drug on. I love the building process and cant wait to start on a swinger.
Also this is my first time with a bandmill, man what a difference from the foley, i would never have considered clamping that small short log into the circle mill.
I have been cleaning up .....what I formerly called firewood........and sawing it lately,
Kirk Allen stopped by the other day, and we sawed some walnut shorts, and stuff I ignore when I have "Real logs" :D :D :D :D :D
That is really impressive. Great work!
Kudos to the man that takes a chance. No regrets. Nice job LW
Amen logwalker, nothing ventured nothing gained.
Sorry folks no junk in this shop.
Parts and supplies
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/shop1.jpg)
Highly technical equipment
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/shop2.jpg)
See no junk!!!!
I sliced a piece off that walnut, looks to be cutting pretty well.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/slice1.jpg)
I'll have to try a thinner cut just for the fun of it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/slice2.jpg)
Thanks for the support everyone. Now all you other guys hang in there and get them homebuilts cutting.
Next stop, wits end! Someone please remind me that I'm saving over 75% by building my own mill.
Not only that Shawn you're upping your skills, and that's better than money in the bank.. 8)
Hey Shawn, you're saving over 75% by building your own mill. Well as long as you dont make any mistakes and have to do things twice or three times.
Thanks guys. As the saying goes: "good enough for the person its for"
Just waiting for the start of the Indy 500!!!!! I did manage an hour of work on the mill so here is the progress pictures.
Welding on bunks this morning to bring log up to 1 inch from blade.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bunks1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bunks2.jpg)
Two down only 7 more to go.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bunks3.jpg)
Toots inspects the welds, he didnt seem impressed.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/tootsweld.jpg)
We had to take a timeout to play on the swing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/tootsswing.jpg)
Not sure if you can see it in the picture but the corn is coming up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/corn1.jpg)
I'll get back to these after the race and post more pictures later.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/bunks4.jpg)
Well it finaly happened. The first mistake on the mill (well atleast the first one i'm admitting to)
I welded on four of the raised bunks and was working too close to the door and the 35 mph gail blowing up my dress was messing with my welding. So i stopped and decided to roll the head forward and double check my clearance. I got about four feet down the bed and the head stopped with a thud. Looked around and had plenty of room around the bunks and thats the only thing i've added. MMMM what could be the problem??
There it is!!! This pulley and cable keep tension on the front chains.
Didnt see that coming
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/oops1.jpg)
RS
So close...........and yet so far.................. ::) It's lookin' really good though 8)!
You're mill looks fantastic! I wish I painted mine as I went along as you have.
Its not actually painted yet. Its red oxide primer. Someday i'll have to tear it all down and give it a finish coat. I think i'm gonna paint it maroon to match my F350. I have even been priming pieces that are welded flat against each other to try and reduce the amount of rust bleeding out of the seams.
Thanks for the pics. Nice work 8)
looks good an hour here an hour there and you will be done
Hello all,
I have an electrical question. I am an electrician but not an automotive electrician. I was thinking about putting a 100 amp alternator on my mill. If i do this will i need to disconect the 20 amp charging system from the honda engine or will they work together without any trouble. I have a friend who put two 100amp alternators on his jeep to charge parallel batteries for running winches but i wont be able to pick his brain for awhile so i thought i would check here.
Thanks for any info you could offer.
Great work.
Maybe I missed it in this post, but did you work off a plan? Do you have a plan that could be followed? Parts sources, etc?
Again, great job.
Thanks
Tom
Quote from: RichlandSawyer on June 07, 2006, 01:30:59 PM
Hello all,
I have an electrical question. I am an electrician but not an automotive electrician. I was thinking about putting a 100 amp alternator on my mill. If i do this will i need to disconnect the 20 amp charging system from the honda engine or will they work together without any trouble. I have a friend who put two 100amp alternators on his jeep to charge parallel batteries for running winches but i wont be able to pick his brain for awhile so i thought i would check here.
Thanks for any info you could offer.
I wouldn't try to hook them up parallel. The two will back feed each other. I'd keep both charging circuits complete and separate. (two regulators, two batteries etc)
Hey Tom,
Well there are no plans, I did a few sketchs here and there but nothing that would make sense to anyone except me.
I've got pages of calculations but again wouldnt help you any. I joked with my wife that if i received a trauma to the brain while building this mill i would have to start all over because all the research would be lost. I would be glad to email you some pictures that are better quality then the ones posted here.
Back to my earlier question about the alternator, I talked to a car guy last night and he thought the two charging systems would work together, his theory is that the battery has the potential to deliver 300+ amps so the other alternator would look just like another battery in the circuit. Makes sense to me but i think i'll research alittle more before i hook it up.
It depends on the regulator.
I've heard that you can wire two 1 wire alternators together. using seperate leads to the battery. I've also heard that the older model alternator regulators (tin can regulators with wire resisters in them) work well that way as well.
I was just noticing how far below the blade the sheet metal of the shroud and doors are to the bandwheels. Is it low enough to keep you from cutting an inch from the bed too?
That mechanics reasoning is flawed. If you could control the rotor current on both alternators with one regulator I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. To use internally regulated alternators you would have to remove(disconnect) the regulator in one and connect the rectified dc currents together and allow the regulator to activate both rotors. Otherwise you wont get very many amps charge, they will nullify each other thinking the battery(ies) is/are charged. Alternators work like power on demand, so to speak, they only put out extra juice (amps) when they are needed, ie. a 100amp alternator won't always put out 100amps, If they did they could cook your battery, and they do this by sensing the battery and load conditions and increasing power to magnatize the rotor. The stator is what makes the difference in how many amps the the alternator can put out without burning out the windings. If you used two non IR alternators, a diode inline on each( to keep from back feeding) and one regulator like Modat stated it should work without having to internally modify the alternators. Clear as mud?
Actually that makes perfect sense. Now all i have to do is figure out how to disconnect the charging system from the motor. Or use a seperate battery for the 12vdc motors. Lots to think about. Thanks fellars i knew you would come though for me.
Tom, I have raised bunks that come up to 1 inch from the blade. The reason for the extra sheet metal was to allow larger bandwheels if someday i felt the need. Not knowing much about bandmills i figured i'd leave that option open. Of course the bunks would have to be modified but that would be much easier than building a new blade guard. Also in the picture of the bunks you'll notice that they are two pieces of tubing. The bottom one is three inches and the top is one inch the reason for this is added strength and if they start to show wear like dents from rolling large logs i can just replace the top one inch piece. Thats my frugal side shinning through.
Perhaps the blade guard goes to the side of the bunks. It looked, in the picture, as if the sheet metal of the shroud would hit the bunk. :)
Thats correct it clears by uuuummm i think about an inch on either side. I also figured the raised bunks would be handy for loading logs with forks on the tractor. The temperature was 94 today and the weather man says saturdays high is gonna be 68 so i should be able to get some more welding done and maybe throw another log on and have a go cutting. The boys and i have been hanging around the pool on these hot days. Hard to convince myself to get all dressed up to do any welding when its this hot.
I'm having the same challenges. It's been 95 or better here, much higher than the weather man says. I have trouble in staying interested in anything outside. :D
Hmmm... I'm not so sure I believe 2 alternators will nullify or cancel each other out. They see battery voltage, and if the voltage is below the threshold they will both kick on and charge.
When the voltage is up, the regulators will kick in. You simply will have more charging power to the battery, and thats all.
If you have 100 amps output on one alt, and 20 on the other, you have 120 amps to the battery while operating. If you need that much, they will produce it. If you don't they won't it's a simple as that.
As soon as you put a load on the battery, and the voltage drops, the alts kick on. If you sucked 100 amps off the system through the battery, they kick on and charge. They won't fool each other.
If they "sense" each other, by means of sensing voltage and the voltage is high enough where they stop output, that means you didn't need it anyway. You're not drawing enough from the system.
The only difference could be where they had the threshold set on their individual regulators. One my be set to shut off charging when the battery reached say 13 volts, whereas the other may be set to shut down at 13.5, or 14volts.
This means one may charge a little longer than the other.
As soon as you run your mill, and it starts sucking amps off the battery, the voltage drops. As soon as it drops to 14,13,12, 10, 9 etc. that DC voltage drops below the threshold setting on the regulators... they read that lower voltage and kick on.
................. 8)
Quote from: jpgreen on June 09, 2006, 01:57:43 AM
They see battery voltage ......
If you have 100 amps output on one alt, and 20 on the other, you have 120 amps to the battery while operating.
If you sucked 100 amps off the system through the battery, they kick on and charge. They won't fool each other.
If they don't fool each other, I'm assuming that each alt. has it's own independant wire to charge the battery.
Scenario #1. -
What is the outcome, if both alternator wires are located at two different points on the battery terminal .... VS .... crimped together and located at one point on the battery terminal?
Scenario #2. -
What is the outcome, if both alternator wires are connected together, then a single wire is connected to the battery terminal?
(2 Delco Remis with internal regulators)
Scenario 1: there would be no electrical difference between crimping together or separate connections to the battery terminal. they would be connected in parallel to each other either way.
Scenario 2: are you saying they would be connected in series? I believe if that is the case whichever alternator kicks in quickest, that would be the only one charging? since 14.3v (or whatever the charging voltage is from the first) will be sensed by the regulator on the slower one (slower by fractions of a second). seems to me you'll have a backup alternator that is only wearing it's bearings out.
Either that or since they both clip an ac wave to make dc they might battle it out, if the dc voltage isn't smooth, since the little dips in voltage would be out of sync. But it would have to be a big dip in voltage!!!! As unlikely as that scenario is, i think that the "battle" would only smooth the dc voltage in the system.
being so far apart in amperage adds a twist to loading, but I think having them both connected in series to the battery would be fine.
am i thinking correctly on this?
Connecting the alternators in parallel to charge is the best way to deliver the most Amps to the batteries.
If the two alternators, each with their own regulator, are connected in parallel, the regulator with the lowest threshold (or setpoint) will quit charging when the other alternator can supply all the current required by the battery and load.
Threshsold is an audio record engineering term, and that's why I was using it, but setpoint would be a better term for this application.
You can run a single regulator to drive both alternators, both alternators will then share the load at the same time and deliver according to their rating and their RPM, but a single regulator is not absolutely necessary in our application I believe.
I'm going to work on this, and set up a diagram with fuses, since I have to do the same thing on my LT40. My Kawasaki engine has a 25 amp alt, and I'm also installing a 87 amp Delco.
................... 8) :) 8)
Here is just a thought. I don't know what I'm talking about so take this with a grain of salt.
One of the failures on a sawmill that seems to stop you in the middle of the most important job is the alternator. They can be rebuilt but, unless you have a spare, you are dead in the water for at least the rest of the day.
Why couldn't you keep the internal alternator in reserve for a backup, just in case it was ever needed. I know they aren't large enough to keep the battery up in heavy sawing, but, one could be used to limp along while some else took the big alternator to the shop for a rebuild.
Can't the internal alternator be "not used" and save its wear and tear? Or, is it going to wear out whether you use it or not?
Pretty much going to wear and tear anyways.
OK- after some more brainstorming in regards to our application, both alternators wired together in parallel will charge together with no problems when the engine is running.
Each alternator will regulate according to it's setpoint.
One problem is when the engine is not running, voltage can backfeed (from the battery) to the alternators, and drain the battery some. One way to fix this is to install one way diodes between each alt sized according to their amp ratings.
They other way to fix this is to install a battery switch- sized to handle your total amps, between the alt outputs and positive side of the battery.
When your engine is not going to be running for an extended period, turn the switch off.
Since we are not running the same sized alternators, I don't thing using a single regulator would be a good idea. They aren't going to be sharing the same amperage out put.
I think parallel wiring and simple switch is the best solution.. 8)
...or just disconnect the battery cable when you're done for the day.. ;D
It may not even drain that much. Disconnect the battery cable when you go on vacation, or during a blizzard, or.. :D
Here is what i've come up with. According to everything i've read you cant parallel alternators without a special controller.
And you are correct JP we will need a relay to disconnect the alternator from the battery when the engine is not running.
I'm still searching for more info.I cant seem to find specifics on what happens when they are parallel they just say dont do it. The 4x4 guys say you can do it in an emergency. No one states the ill effects.
You won't find any info on specifics to what damage happens cause there is none.
I just confirmed it with a guy I know who's in business to charge batteries with solar wind and any kind of generator you could think of, and has been doing it for over 25 years.
The only problem there could be is if you mount a tachometer to your alternator, like I do on my diesel pickup. It will not read accurately. If there is a computer electrical system like on our new cars and trucks, that would most likely also create a problem somewhere, but to run our engines on sawmills is not going to be a problem.
As I mentioned above, these alts are not real complicated. They simply turn on and off based on the 12volt DC voltage level. As soon as the voltage drops below 14v, they are both going to work. As soon as the voltage gets back up, and that depends on how much draw the mill uses, ones gonna shut off slightly sooner.
With my solar system the main thing is to get batteries refilled, and recharged as quickly as possible. If that means hitting it with 3 chargers fine. But, my favorite by far is DC charging, direct to the battery bank as we're talking about here. I charge my system with Delco DC, even though I can hit it with the charger in my Trace 4500 watt inverter- that has a huge AC battery charger in it. Sometimes I hit the batts with both AC and DC.
The DC allows you to continually take big amps off of your system, and it will smoothly replace them without a hiccup. So I can run my shop equipment whilst my solar panels are filling the gap, and at the same time (only if I'm running heavy) I run a Delco Alternator with a little diesel engine.
Like refilling a water cooler as you drink from it. That's what we need.
I'm gonna run both alts on the Kawa-Miser this week, so if it blows I'll let you know.. ;D
Not much to wear and tear on most of the small engine internal alternators. They work like a pm motor, as long as the windings don't get burnt out they will work forever. The draw back is the low amps. The rectifiers, diodes and regulator can go bad but they will still produce ac currect.
I'd hook the 20amp internal alternator to a small cranking battery, and use a 100amp 12si or 27si alternator to charge 2 deepcycle batteries. The aux alt can be activated by the key switch and no relay would be needed, just connect the field activation lead from the regulator to the accesory lug.
Why it won't work in parallel with two regulators is that when one is charging and putting out 14.7volts+-the otherone will "think" the battery state is full, one nullifies the other. If you disable the ability of either regulator to regulate the voltage to the rotor(which is what it actually regulates and inturn determines the output of the alternatror) and apply full voltage to the rotor it will put out full amps and either cook or blow up your batteries or burn itself out. Don't do it. I've never seen one but that controller can't be to much of a big deal just a few diodes, maybe a relay and a ic regulator.
JP ask him what he does for dump loads?
OK-
I just poured through my LT40 scematics, and THEY have one heavy BATT wire running from the Delco external alternator output to the starter solenoid on the the engine. AT this point the 2 alternators are paralleled.
From the starter solenoid runs the same heavy wire to a 100 amp fuse in the LT40 fuse boxe with the flat metal fueses.
A small yeller wire is running from the Delco field tab to an alternator light, then on to the "Key On" side of the ignition.
I respectfully disagree that the one alt will see 14.7volts from the other get fooled then shut down. Maybe for a brief instant it will see that voltage, but what the whole circiut is going to see is the battery voltage, and that is what will trigger the regulators on each alternator.
One alternator will work a little harder than the other at times, but when the load of the hydraulics is hammered down on the battery, both alternators are going to kick in full tilt, until the battery voltage reaches the top fill point, and setpoint on the regulators.
.................................... 8) 8) 8)
there was a BMW about 1990 that had dual alternators
it was the real big 4 door might have had dual A/C comp too
i dont know of any other cars .... but why not use dual batteries ?
JP.
Yer right that it's not a problem to have two in parallel. However...
I'm perty sure that in a parallel circuit their share of the load would still be determined by whether or not the one with the higher charge voltage (all regulators are not equal) can carry the current load and maintain a steady voltage. The charging alternator's generated voltage BECOMES the battery voltage and the battery becomes a load. All legs of a parallel circuit drop or "sense" the same voltage and the battery is in the same parallel circuit. The one with the higher charge voltage would stay on and the second wouldn't turn on until the first one's maxed out and system voltage drops or a large transient like a surge load occurs and the "system" voltage momentarily drops to the second one's kick-in point. And since current is added in a parallel setup (Kirchoff's Law---- btw, where's Norm on this?!? He's an ET...)you will have 120A total alternator capacity. Also, each alternator needs to be independently fused on it's leg according to its rated output.
Clear as mud? smiley_sleeping
But like Flurida, I'd go with two circuits just the same. Deep cycle on the other loads for surge capacity and for fewer shorted cells over time. All it takes is one oil-and-dust-goo short to frame or a heavy discharge and a cell or two will short with those wimpy little plates on a starter battery.
Of course I'm probably the only one here who lets their stuff get dirty enuff to short. ;D
Well time will tell, because I'm going to get to the bottom of it. :)
Wood-Mizer has been running LT40's that way for many years. ???.. ;D
I dont know if it will help, but when we slung the new kohler onto the lt40hd, it has its own internal charger that dont do much (about 4amp i think),
so a newish) 110amp from a Citroen (looked all shiny and sparkly)was bolted to the pulley side and connected to the battery (biggest i could fit in the box) using the wm big cable everything has worked for yonks now
Iain
That's right see.. :D
2 alternators hooked up with their own regulators in parallel, and has worked for Yonks.
That pretty much says it iain... where have you been?.. 8)..... ;D
Jumping in kinda late here; some of the old Gleaner combines (M, L, maybe the earlier of the II series) used 2 alternators; my recollection is they were the Delco with internal regulators; 10 si; don't know how they were wired, but it was a 12 V negative ground system.........
I been on oliday with ALL of Linda's family sounds >:( :o ::)
but was :D :) ;D 8)
iain (pics to follow when resized)
I sure hope you enjoyed your holiday while we were all sitting here struggling with this head scratcher. Its about time you show up!!! :D :D
And were is the woodmizer guys, isnt sparky the WM expert. Well now that the battle is winding down i guess i better go get working on the mill.
You said battle. I don't see a battle. But i do see some babble.
Greetings, richard here, I,ve been here a while just haven't posted.
Just started on my mill, how do I put up a pic? I have Windows XP.
My log name is Nicole, richard was taken.
Your mill is looking nice, that brace across the bottom I guess will be coming off once your track is together?
Hope this was an OK place to ask about posting.
You can click on the Help button at the top of the page. That has a link that will take you to the instructions.
Or, you can to to the topic Behind the Forum and you will find instructions there.
Welcome Aboard. :)
Hello Nicole/Richard,
You are right the cross bar came off when it went on the trailer. Welcome to the posting world. I hung out here and peaked in the window for about a year before i even registered.
Hey all !!!
Havent added anything to this thread for awhile so thought i'd stop in and start updating again. Mill is running good. Hitching on the trailer tomorrow and heading south to pickup several walnut trees. Also have 6 or 7 oaks waiting to be picked up and a couple nice size ash. I have one of them steel carport things to park the head of the mill in but havent got it moved into place yet need to put down some rock first.
When its set i'll post some pictures.
Quote from: Murf on January 09, 2006, 02:52:56 PM
Quote from: woodbowl on January 09, 2006, 01:05:31 PM
Did you try letting some of the air out of the tires, just to get it in and out? ................... We're still waitin' for pics................ at this point we'll take any pics, even a flat tire. ;D
Or run the head to one end or the other an tip that end of the trailer down so the head clears the door frame?
put snow mobile trailer tires on it.
Holy 10 Year-Old Thread Batman!! ;D