The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: whitepine on December 28, 2005, 08:29:50 PM

Title: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: whitepine on December 28, 2005, 08:29:50 PM
HI  I ran across two papers about planting  trees  north of their  normal range to  have forests able to  handle expected climate change and I was wondering if anyone else had heard of this? The Feds are doing it here in northeastern Minnesota. I realize most on this site are conservative in views and I expect few here even belive in global warming I hope not to get into  discussions about if it is happening or not , I am interested  in anyone who has information on tree plantings taking this into consideration.
Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: Ron Wenrich on December 29, 2005, 06:00:32 AM
I haven't heard of anyone doing it on the ground.  I know that there are relic communities of southern species in my area.  These are leftovers from a period when the climate was warmer and more southern species grew here.

If I was investing time and money, I don't think I would jump off the deep end and plant trees that were out of their normal range.  I might think about trees where I was on the northern fringe of the range and opt out of those where I was on the southern fringe.  Maybe do a mixed plantation.

It seems to me that you are putting money on a horse to win when you plant on expected climate changes. 
Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: Max sawdust on December 30, 2005, 07:21:29 AM
Talk to your Forester.  In Northern Wisconsin Paper Birch is not doing so well so it is being cut more aggressivly under some managment plans.  Guess you could consider it a "fringe species".  I am with Ron, on this subject, planting trees that are solidly in your zone sounds like the best approch.

I am thinkin that it has been many million years since their were Palm trees in Northern Minnesota ;D ;D
Most likely have to wait a some time yet before they will grow in Minnesota again ;D

Max
Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: crtreedude on December 30, 2005, 07:43:36 AM
Yeah, and I wouldn't hold your breath on teak either.   ;)

Edge species are not a good choice anyway - for example, I know that teak will grow up to 500 meters in altitude in our area.

But they won't do near as well as at 100 to 200 meters. I know teak will grow with only 2 months dry season, but not near as good quality as 3 to 4 months dry season. Teak will do fine at 5 months dry season, but you will lose about 40% of your growth rate.

The point is, you want species that are well suited for an area - hopefully the results of global warming are not so drastic as to make unsuitable trees the best trees for an area.

If so - we got serious problems...


Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: whitepine on December 30, 2005, 07:46:27 PM
Thanks for the input. I agree planting  edge species  exclusively would be foolish even the ones they are planting here the main planting is the  old standby white spruce. I was curious if they are  planting sothern edge species into northern  plantings anywhere else.
Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: pedajas on January 02, 2006, 04:26:26 PM
There are many occasions where the tree species will native grow not in the best location for them. Like Pinus Radiata. In its native area Radiata is nothing wonderfull, but in New Zeeland, it something another.
Lot of trees from America continent are growing in Europe better than in their native land, etc.
So, never say never :-X
Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: jon12345 on January 02, 2006, 08:57:21 PM
A lot of our northeast species grow along the appalachains as far down as North Carolina.  I think that species will migrate some, but have you seen the White Pine plantations they have grown in the tropics/sub-tropics?  If global warming does have the major effect predicted, we will have to adjust not only to the species composition changing, but may some day have to adjust with characteristics of a species changing ??? 
Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: pedajas on January 04, 2006, 11:01:13 AM
No, I have not seen them.
As I know, lot of species are gaining a some increased growing rate moving them from north to south (not too much), if moisture conditions are propper. But usually they cant give neccessary amount of the natural reproduction there and will not naturalize easily. There are pleasant and unpleasant exceptions to the booth directions, N-S, S-N. :)
Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: crtreedude on January 04, 2006, 11:03:52 AM
Interesting you would talk about exotics - Teak is one here in Costa Rica.

Teak generally does better here than other places - very stable conditions and rich soil.

This isn't though based on a change in climate - often exotics can do incredibly well - no predators. Which can also cause problems.

Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: routestep on December 04, 2007, 10:18:03 PM
I'm stratifying some soutern red oak acorns that I picked up on the side walk here in Central Virginia and plan to plant them in the ground on my wood lot up in Maine (Zone 3!). If global warming is for real, I think they might have a chance. I should know in a few years. I get the acorns for free and go up to Maine for a couple of weeks in early May anyway, so there is no cost.
Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: WDH on December 04, 2007, 10:42:47 PM
With at least 50 years before you can develop a decent sawlog, it seems to me to be a result that you will not be around to participate in.  If Global Cooling happens instead of Global Warming, your experiment will fail.  I would go with the native species to increase my odds of success.  You can still plant the warm adapted species or take your money to Las Vegas, your call........ :). 

You can't fool Mother Nature.  If Global Warming is real, it may take a couple of centuries to fully express itself.  I think that you may be jumping the gun.
Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: tonich on December 05, 2007, 05:42:26 AM
The best possible approach:

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on December 29, 2005, 06:00:32 AM
...I don't think I would jump off the deep end and plant trees that were out of their normal range....

The native, the best!  ;)
Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: woodmills1 on December 05, 2007, 06:28:43 AM
Unless I have missed something, aren't there other factors just as or more important than temperature.  That is things like soil index, moisture and exposur are what make a particular site better or worse for any given species that may be viable for a given temperature zone.

My real example is from the red oak on my own property.  The ones near or at the ridge tops are firewood trees, finding a sawlog in them is a bonus.  Those growing below and facing a souther exposure are better but not what i would call spectacular.  However those on the north slope are tall, straight and nearly knot free for many feet.

Understand, these diferences are within a few hundred feet of each other on my relatively small parcel (83 acres)
Title: Re: Planting trees with Global Warming in mind
Post by: crtreedude on December 05, 2007, 06:41:03 AM
Quote from: WDH on December 04, 2007, 10:42:47 PM
With at least 50 years before you can develop a decent sawlog, it seems to me to be a result that you will not be around to participate in.  If Global Cooling happens instead of Global Warming, your experiment will fail.  I would go with the native species to increase my odds of success.  You can still plant the warm adapted species or take your money to Las Vegas, your call........ :). 

You can't fool Mother Nature.  If Global Warming is real, it may take a couple of centuries to fully express itself.  I think that you may be jumping the gun.

Not 50 years here - we have some teak that is 4 1/2 years old that is 8+ inches at DBH. Most are 5 to 6 inches. But in the frozen north, yep, you are right.