The neighbor has been logging for the past week and appeared to be approaching the property line..So I walked over to ensure he did not over step the property line..Too late..Right next to the pin (within 5ft) he cut down my favorite tree, a huge 3.5 diameter cucumber tree..The reason it was such a beautiful tree was because no one else in the last 100years dared to cut it..To shorten the story the logger finally admitted it was right on the property line and wanted to make restitution..As you all know cucumber wood has limited commercial value..But a beautiful tree cannot be replaced..So the question..What should I demand for payment..Remember to keep in mind that I would purposely walk in the woods a couple times a year just to visit my tree......I really do not know what to ask..
Hi Up here it is automatic 3X stumpage value if you cut someone elses wood, however I do not know what they do with trees in town if they have a bigger value. Usually if it matters to you a lawyer can give you an opinion for around $50.00 ( it is not a murder case find a new lawyer just starting) rather than listening to opinions from people that do not know.
Well, I do know that in a landscape type situation, that the tree might bring a lot of money as a judge might consider the cost on what it would take to "Put it back". "Putting back" a mature tree, if one could, might cost several thousand dollars. However, it sounds like your tree is in the woods, so its probably something one of the foresters here can answer a little bit better. I personally dont think how much you appreciated the tree is going to be able to come into play on this one although thats a shame. I think the most that would be allowed might be triple the market value if the tree was intentionally taken because of unclear boundries.
I hate to admit it but i to fall in love with trees. My land was logged in the 40s, they high graded all the pine and left 1 lonely white fir. It's kinda cull but over 3 ft on the butt, beautiful old dying tree but it will outlive me im sure. Money can't replace your tree. Id ask the logger for one free punch in the guts. It will make you feel better and him feel worse! :D
There must be more to it than just 3x stumpage. Two examples I sell burl wood and would gladly pay 3x stumpage if I could cut any tree I wanted on state federal and private land I dont think they would let me get buy with a 3x stumpage if I got caught stealing trees. Also get caught stealing a xmass tree up here it is a $50.00 fine and I would guess the stumpage value on a 10ft high tree is about next to nothing.
I am like snowman and see his point, I also have trees I would not cut and I have logging done on my property alot. I take flagging and heavily flag the tree's I want to save and have had good luck with that. Something else you may try not saying I would do this is even on a sale not on your property flag a tree and the logger will avoid it He doesnt know what the deal is weather it is flagged by the state or federal or has metal in it. Up here loggers avoid any trees with deer stands in them also.
Thanks for the replies..I should have added that I do not know what cucumber wood is worth..If you have that knowledge or have a link to that knowledge, I would appreciate it....
I'd be pretty upset.....with myself for not going over to talk to that logger when he first showed up on the job. If the property line was fenced, it would be one thing. Not fenced, I'd have a clear understanding that my trees were not to be cut, and also find out what and how the trees were marked that he was planning to cut on 'his' side.
Being as what has already happened, and the tree is cut, then I'd put a big price tag on it and give him a written-out bill. He has the choice of paying it or negotiating something with you to get you satisfied. I'd think he would have liability insurance and a bill or written document from you as to what you value the tree to be, should be semi 'official' for collection. All depends on how friendly you want to maintain your relations with the logger and with your neighbor. We lose people in our lives, and continue on with the good memories of them. Can't go back, as life is not a rehearsal (so I've heard). :)
Am sorry you are missing your tree. The wind blew one down the other day that I will miss too (as well as a few squirrels and racoon). The wood burner just 'smiled'. ;D
I had my place logged about 5yrs ago(needed money to start building). showed the logger the boundry lines but told them to stay about 15ft away from the line just to be safe.
My dads neibor cut a tree that was kind of on dads side but dad never went to look at what they were doing. The guy was not the brights bulb in the house.
Thanks alot Mr Mom
In a previous post it was stated "that rather than listening to opinions from people that do not know." I may have misunderstood the intended meaning, but it should be known that we do have people here that "do" know. Several of our foresters are called regularly in trials for thier educated opinions on such matters. Weather you see a lawyer or a forester to seek information, its ultimately, in a legal situation the decision of the courts based on gathered evidence and knowledge.
This is certainly the place to seek this initial information, or if not here from a local forester that knows your area forest types, specifics and markets. Be it to reach an aggreeable settlement between you and the logger, unaided by the courts, or through a trial process, the information to make those decisions have to come from someone who knows. Foresters know. Thats what they do. Some of the Foresters here are the best of the best in my opinion.
A similar thing happened to a family friend a few years back.
The tree wasn't worth much in cash, but it was of great sentimental value. It used to be in the middle of the family farm, severances had caused it to now be nearly on the property line. The owner had a series of family pictures going back to his grandparents all of them taken next to, or under this tree.
Instead of trying to get some cash for compensation, the owner went at it a little differently. ::)
He got all the firewood he could handle for a few years. Most loggers are shy of cash, but have more tops & butts than they know what to do with.
Everybody wins that way. ;D
> As you all know cucumber wood has limited commercial value..
If I was logging even pulp wood, I think I would skip a 3.5 DBH tree in favor of (6) 20" DBH trees. Unless you are running a 42" bar, that means cutting it from both sides of the tree just to make a notch. Never mind driving wedges and then bucking it if you are not using heavy machinery.
Okay, I have to ask, if it does, why did he cut it ???
Because it is valuable!
Check out this thread right here, a year ago:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=5629.0
When I heard of it selling for $11 BF, I researched it and it can be very valuable. So, when I am out and about in GA, I am always looking for a nice straight wide magnolia in case someone wants it taken down so I could get some nice lumber.
I did find a very nice tree (no where near that huge though) and the guy let me come back in the fall and gather the pods so I could start my own trees from good stock. I told him to never cut down the tree, but, if it fell over, call me because I would remove it for free AND pay him for the wood.
Really, no joke, Magnolia in wide slabs goes for $10+ per board foot for clear!
The thing is to take pictures, measure the length of the tree, how many good 16 foot lengths of trunk there are and how big the diameter is. Then you have a good idea of how many board feet in the tree. Calculators are at the left.
Then figure out what it sells as lumber. Most (S4S) rough sawn lumber (except pine) sells for $2 a board foot at most Internet stores.
http://www.woodcentral.com/splinters/cucumber.shtml
Prices:
http://www.innernet.net/galleryofwood/pricelist.htm
I figure a tree this big probably had 2500 board feet. Retail, this tree was at the min. $1.40 x 2500 = $3500. But, really, a magnolia that big and if it was straight and you could do slabs, is rare. Slabs go for $10 a board foot cut and dried!
If you could find any of the seed pods, I would see about saving them and planting them.
I guess the thing is, was it a honest mistake where a punch in the stomach would solve it better then money. Or was the pin clearly visible from where he was cutting and he wanted to skim your tree. In that case if this tree was big and straight, I would see about having a professional arborist come in and give an estimate on landscape value and board foot value.
I can only speak for myself, but, if I knew I was close to the property line and there was a tree bigger then all the rest and was beautiful, I would first avoid damaging the tree and second I would make sure there was string between the pins to avoid any line mistakes. I would have marked the trees and then had the other property owner come over to okay the cuts.
I do a lot of urban cutting and getting permission from other property owners and I have never had one refuse to come over and okay what I was cutting or crushing before I did it. Most people at least want to come over and be nosy about it. I say somethng like, I am sure I am going to be 100% on the other person's property, but, how about you come over and tell me any concerns before I start.
I guess intent is everything.
If it was a honest mistake, then I might even be inclined to say, I keep the wood (if you want it) and you pay me the tree at $100 a cord and drop the wood off in your truck in my driveway. If he was scamming and trying to rip off a nice 300+ year old tree to line his pockets, then the sky is the limit, imo.
FWIW:
http://www.woodfinder.com/listings/012592.php
http://pick4.pick.uga.edu/mp/20q?search=Magnolia+acuminata
http://wildwnc.org/trees/Magnolia_acuminata.html
http://www.woodfinder.com/search.php?search=Magnolia
http://www.woodmagazine.com/wood/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/wood/story/data/wood_profiles_magnolia.xml
I was going to keep quiet but rebocardo all the prices you quoted are for sawed and or dryed lumber and not standing timber theres a big differance in value because of the added labor and machine work. I have bought and cut timber now for 25yrs. I'm sure glad I never got into a situation like this. But like others have said usally if no agreement or settlement can be reached before court the general rule is 3X timber value thats what i've always heard. Now if we can get one of those guys that Jeff says really knows will find out.
Sawyerfortyish, absolutely. The "I know a guy that got" prices for lumber out of the log has little relevence in figuring the value of the tree. Market values for the value added products out of the tree are way to subjective and variable to be a major consideration. Heck, maybe if the local magnolia toothpick plant is buying its yearly log you might have a bonanza.
ICUTTREES, you should have a state or county forester that you can lean on heavily for information. As for intent on why the tree was cut, thats only a factor if a legal judgement will be involved. It wont change the value of the tree only the award.
http://www.stateforesters.org/sflist.html
I once served on a jury in a case of property damages. I remeber the gist was basically the injured party was entitled to compensation based on the value of the destroyed property, and this (in Oklahoma) did mean value based on replacement cost. I agree with Rebocardo in that the tree has value, based on its potential market. The case we decided was on the value of a growing crop of wheat, and damages were awarded based on the potential yield of the crop, determined by the average of the past 3 years. Ok, they didn't argue about growing when wasn't worth as much as grain in the elevator, not was the harvesting cost figured. It was so much an acre, pay up. At the very least, the tree should be valued on its potential, or replacment value. If it was an honest mistake, then let him off lighter on the damages. I don't think its really a matter of if you have 1 tree in your own woods cut, but the fact is, it was your tree. Oh yeah, since I am from north central Oklahoma and we have no timber harvesting here, exactly what is stumpage? I don't think I can get out there and just learn this without moving to the big woods. ;) This is where i would like a glossery to look through. :P
My comment on this probably isn't any value to your situation. But, in my area I have done a few tresspass stump cruises ranging in size from 5 to 50 acres. Usually the volume is to low to justify the legal fees, but the owner wants something on paper to confront the perpetrator with and possibly send a bill to settle the dispute. Anyhow, we use double stumpage in my area for those guys that fess up for their mistakes and come good. Most of the time if it has to go to court it get's thrown out as it's near impossible to prove intent. Our laws over wood theft have been looked at and hashed over with little results, except the educational spiel. Before harvesting, contact your neighbors, make sure the lines are established by a registered land surveyor and make sure your logger has insurance. If your neighbor is an absantee owner let him know there is someone on his ground cutting. I looked at a woodlot owned by a lady in NY for 40 years and found out it had been pretty much liquidated over the last 25 years, even as recent as 2 years ago and I seen where the wood was cut and skidded into the theif's yard, probably to keep from freezing to death. It was just a tar paper shack. :'(
I have worked on a few trespass cases... never had to go to court thou. I have seen this kind of thing before, taking a valuable tree across a property line even next to a pin.
First thing you have to do is prove trespass so this usually involves a surveyor that has to run the boundary and make sure they cut your trees. Normally the price of the survey that will stand up in court costs more than the trees taken. The loggers know this and a few work the system since they usually get away with it. Pictures of property line pins and the like will not suffice an actual survey must be done.
Next you sue for triple (usually) damages if the tree has timber value or landscape value if that is worth more. The problem here is that you have hire a forester for timber value or certified arborist that does appraisals to determine landscape value. The forester measures stumps and then takes a representative sample of the same species trees growing nearby and uses this data to establish tree size and subsequent value. All the work has to stand up to the courts scrutiny.
What has worked before is that the forester collects the tree data and maps the stumps with a GPS that can post-process and phase correct. An exhibit is made showing the property line pins (GPS mapped) and location of stumps, the species and size of trees and total volume. These are sent to the offending party with a pay up or your going to court letter. Normally this prevents a court case since its obvious you are serious and have done your homework. A deal is sometimes cut for double damages when since you both stay out of court.
You are money ahead to hire a firm that has experience doing this if you care to pursue it. In your case finding comparable trees may be the hardest part.
Around here if they are cutting up to a line they cut every other tree on the line and take it...
If it is a clear cut and they cut up to your line all your trees close to the line that have shallow root systems ( spruce) will blow over and you lose thousands of dollars if you dont log it out
before it rots....
I always thought this was a bad thing and approached criminal activity such as distruction of property...
Forestry around here is still in the Stone Age in many respects...
Father had our lines updated before he sold stumpage once and the contractor just cut every Dang line tree as he went. The contractor probably figured it didn't matter since he was going to be cutting on 3 different farms, one after the other for 3 years. Dad had to have the lines surveyed again though. And harvesting those spotted line trees was illegal. ::)
I know of folks who think it's their right to cut every other line tree. I don't know who told them that and there's no detering them. The idea certainly never came from DNR or the NB Land Serveyor Assoc. :(
Sorry to hear that your tree got cut. I have a couple of big trees close to the line that I visit quite often so I know how you feel. You said the tree was close to a pin but you did not say which side of the line it was on or if it was right on the line.
In NY the line trees are co-owned by the adjoining landowners and you can not cut one unless both agree to cut it.
Your plight should give incentive to those who have failed to survey and mark their boundaries to do so. A well defined boundary prevents a lot of problems. Paint and flagging is cheap insurance. Any honest logger would not cut right up to the line to begin with. If he saw the pin and took the tree anyways I guess probably he would not fall into the honest logger class.
Mark your boundary before you lose any more trees.
Alot of woodlot owners don't have their lines marked here and some will tell the contractor to bear the cost of the survey, or they say it's well marked by some old fence. But, it rotted in the ground 30 years ago and covered by 3 inches of moss and leaves. ::) The woodlot owner is just as responsible for unmarked lines as his logger is for going over an untraceable boundary in my mind. Anything outside of that is up to individual interpretation. I've cruised quite a few woodlots for one fellow and he's had to survey alot of the woodlots out of his own pocket. Don't look right to me. ::)
Just to add to the coments that have all ready been made.
Although others have advisied: proactive markings and talking with logger, this would not have excused the logging contractor in this state. He has an obligation to clearly note the boundry's before beggining work.
I provide these 'kinds of appraisals' in accordance with National Standards set down by the Concil of Landscape and Tree Appraisals. The formulas and equations used to determine cost cannot be done by just anyone, so I recommend you hire a Consulting Arborist or Forester to assist you. (Preferably experienced)
However, I might also caution that the courts do not always recognize these standards based upon other state influential laws.
Your initial start would be to hire an experienced consulting Arborist or Forester. They will be familar with the 'value' and can advise you on past legal encroachment issues.
May say you money in the long run 8)
Please take this as a comment from someone who is un-knowledgeable in the forestry area (as yet!)...
Assuming the tree isn't worth much in a monetary sense... (Of course, if it is, go for the money!)
and most importantly ASSUMING THE CUTTING WAS UNINTENTIONAL...
But, here's my thoughts...
This guy is a neighbour, the two of you have to live alongside each other for some time yet.
I would ask one of two things (or both of them)... (in addition to delivering the tree wood to you)
Since he's obviously got a problem defining where the fence line is, How's about he puts up a fence, in restitution of the tree felling.
And/Or... If he really didn't do it on purpose, hopefully he's feeling bad about cutting the tree down, ask him to promise never to do it again, and shake his hand. Hopefully this will shame him into never doing this again.
If, however, you think he did it on purpose, and he really doesn't care, then go for the $ however little it is.
My $.02c fwiw.
asy :D
Since you were so thoughtful to reply to my question I thought I would provide a little more info and the probable course of action..I contacted an Ohio Dept of Nat Resouces agent for his input..He agreed that 3X was the normal value established in a case such as this..He also gave me the stump price of .25-.35 bdft for cucumber lumber..He felt my actions were reasonable..I then contacted a local private forest manager..He knew of the 3X valuation but never knew of anyone to get that amount..He then focused on some of the legal options available to me..However, I do not want to go that route, as no one will win there, and I am certainly not looking for a victory..
So out to the stump to measure..The tree measured 60ft from the stump to the cutoff top..No limbs were observed so I am assuming all the logs were clear..The stump measured 38inches, the top 22inches.. I am being conservative in my figures assuming 4 logs at 14ft with diameters of 22/25/28/31 inches..Doyle Log Scale says 1812 Bd/ft..With that I am using .30 a Bd/ft though the OH agent said my wood would be top of the scale (the stump was solid).. Now the tricky part..I have not decided whether to mutiply by 2X or 2.5X rather than the 3X..The logger was nice about the incident after I proved my case..I am not looking for a windfall only justice..The decison among the family is to donate the money from the tree..
Now the additional info..This land is actually my mother-in-law's, and she has allowed my to handle this matter..It is a 400 acre orchard turned grain farm which is surrounded by woods..I do not know the neighbor in question and have not spoken to her concerning this problem....The cucumber tree was located 5ft from the property pin..A metal fence post was next to the pin, both painted white..Someone, either the owner or logger painted the pin and post orange so to be easily visible..Some of you have mentioned firewood for payment..Well, this farm produces more wood than I will either burn or use for woodworking..I am hopeful of getting this resolved today after work...Thx...
Well ICUTTREES if you mean that tree was 5' over the line on your side and the line was clearly marked that logger must think you are dumber than a box of rocks. I guess he ought to be nice about it. We like pictures. How about posting a picture of the line and the stump. Were there any other trees over the line that he cut or was that the only tree? Me thinks that guy would be suddenly having lots of equipment failures if he pulled that crap in my woods. Guys like that give good loggers a real black eye.
I have been involved in several of trespass cases, always as an expert witness. I have used both stump counts and arbor methods that Steve Wiley talks about. The arbor methods are OK if you are in an situation where the tree is worth more as landscape than it is for timber. Forest trees have a pretty heavy reduction in value as opposed to a tree in a front yard.
You're going about it the right way. You have a stumpage value, and you have measured the stump. That tree would be approximately 34-36" DBH, depending on stump height. Four logs seem about right for a cucumber tree, which pretty much resembles our yellow poplar.
The stumpage price may have been based on the International scale. Many state agencies use that scale. However, loggers use the Doyle scale. There is a little difference between the 2 scales, with International being higher. I would also use a form class of 80.
If you look up in the right hand corner, you will see a thing called "Forum Extras". We have a tree volume calculator that will tell you the volume of the tree. A 36" tree has 1849 Doyle, or 1921 Int. A 35" tree has 1715 Doyle or 1799 Int. A 34" tree has 1596 Doyle or 1690 Int. You can see how much difference an inch makes.
If you use the middle ground of 1799 bf Int., you will come up with a price range of $450 - $630. Triple stumpage is $1350 - $1900. This should be your negotiation range.
I would try to keep it out of the courts. It is small enough to take to small claims court. I don't know of any that have gone this route, but I am usually involved with a lot more than 1 tree.
I don't think I would cut the logger much of a break. He didn't cut you any, and was perfectly willing to chance cutting a tree over the line or at least clearly a line tree. Any break you cut him is more than what he would have cut you.
I'm still not sure on what side of the line the tree is on, yours or the neighbors? Has the property line been surveyed to legally establish that it is your tree and the neighbor does not dispute it and is only the one tree involved?
Was the tree just cut and left in treapass or was it cut and removed from the area which then removes it from trespass action to criminal action?
Depending upon the situation,Tillaway, Wiley, and Ron W. have given good advice.
One of my first actions would be to determine the laws in Ohio. Here in Maine any operation greater than 10 acres must have the boundaries clearly marked BY THE LANDOWNER. So if you do not have an existing line with monuments at the end (or a stonewall/fence along the line) then you must get it surveyed. In many cases the logger does not have a stake in the outcome. It is the landowner's head that rolls.
Personally, I would initially avoid the legal route with the landowner. Try to resolve it in a friendly manner as you have done. But know the law so you can use it to your advantage. If that does not work and the landowner/logger avoids you or will not speak about the problem or they think that no damages have occurred, then I would pay the $100 to have a nice letter written by a lawyer. You would be surprised at the results that one letter from a lawyer will produce. I would, at least, contact the landowner. He/she may not realize that a problem exists. That may be the reason the logger is being so nice. If he knows he can capitalize on this venture then what will stop him from doing it again? Nip it in the bud one way or the other.
BTW, installing a fence may be the worst thing you could do, especially if you do not know where the true boundary line is. Fences lead to many boundary disputes. If you have one installed, make sure that both landowners are aware as to where that fence stands in relation to the boundary. If both landowners agree to install a fence on what they think is the boundary, then that fence may eventually ripen into the true boundary.
Do you have a picture of the tree or the log? i don't really know much, but if it is veneer quality, it may be worth more.
You will never be able to guesstimate whether it was veneer quality or not. That would never hold up in court. Nothing more than speculation.
I agree with Ron. All my estimates have been based on pulp. You know it was worth something or it wouldn't be cut. But there is no way to prove it was worth a sawlog or a veneer log. She's long gone.
even if there are pictures of the log/tree? I'm just curious, not second guessing you guys...
Isn't likely the log was left, just a stump and lotsa brush. ;) If you have a picture of it standing it still don't prove it's veneer. What's it look like inside and is that the tree from that stump? What about the big seem, cavity or scar around the other side of the tree out of the picture? I have heard/read that in some cases DNR has collected stump and log samples to verify that was the tree from that stump and that gets expensive. And when it's mixed in the log pile, good luck. ::) In this case it might be the only cucumber tree there, but who knows but the logger and landowner of the ajacent ground weather or not they might have had 5 cucumber trees of similar diameter and if they were close to one another they might likely be sibling trees. Now go scout around the brush piles on my 500 acres and try and prove I didn't have cucumber trees also. :-\
Sometimes its hard enough to figure out if its veneer quality in a log let alone a tree or a picture. Here's an example that happened several years ago:
The loggers brought in a red oak that was 31" at the end of a 32' log. The bossman was real proud of that log and asked me what I thought.
I told him it wasn't veneer quality, but I'm just a forester and a sawyer. He said he would sell it for veneer, and he did.
When the log was taken to the veneer yard, the owner was there when it was unloaded. He asked the veneer buyer if he payed veneer prices for that log. He said he did, and the owner fired him on the spot.
:D Ron, it never ceases to amaze me through public venues or personal arrogance, how much others want to know - what you know, than upon recieving it immediately defy it.
ICUTTREES,
I agree with Ron's procedure for value and agree the logger does not need a break ! I would add these thoughts when you begin your negotiation equations;
1.) There is a labor cost not accounted for (by the value of the log) in the clean up of the branches and debris. Evaluate on a day basis how long it will take to clean the mess up.
2.) Also you have the right to charge for the cost of soil prep, plant cost, planting labor and up to six years maintenance for the re-establishment of the lost tree.
Both the above are add on costs !
Mr. Wiley stated:
"1.) There is a labor cost not accounted for (by the value of the log) in the clean up of the branches and debris. Evaluate on a day basis how long it will take to clean the mess up.
2.) Also you have the right to charge for the cost of soil prep, plant cost, planting labor and up to six years maintenance for the re-establishment of the lost tree.
Both the above are add on costs !"
I'm just curious as to whether Oregon has statutes in place to enforce these add-on costs? It seems as though that the states with significant forest industries have implemented statutes, or have case law, that protect the landowners in cases like this.
From what I have read in the past the Oregon legislature has gone to great lengths to protect the industry as a whole. I would venture to guess that the biggest issues the left coast must deal with are the environmental issues?
I would like to add a little here. If this logger wrongfully and knowingly cut this tree he may try to make restitution. But it may or may not be even close to what it was worth. If you try to pursue for all related costs of cleanup and so on he might avoid you all togeather finish the job and pull out. He's already proven he's not trustworthy. Good luck collecting. If it were me I would try to get whatever I could out him while he there. Ask him to cleanup the limbs. As for involving more people(lawyers tree experts ect) the more involved the less you'll end up with and it may cost you in the end. If you take it all the way to court and win. He still probably won't pay then who's going to collect. The courts award money but rarley if at all help collect.
I'll also add I been here and done this. I had trees cut on my property and had it surveyed and finally settled with the person that cut them. If I didn't have a surveyor friend it would have cost more than the trees were worth.
Why does intent have anything to do with it. Loggers are supposed to know who's land they are on. I know how it works, but why?
Will
BB, we have the rules and laws to back up the rule of law. I have been down that road with a number of folks. About 5 years ago for one of my previous students. She and her husband had three truckloads of hardwood logs felled and removed while the owners were away. The excuse the neighbor used was, "They were blocking the sun from hitting my ryegrass field and production was low because of no sun." With the completion of my survey, he paid far more than he would make over 20 years of fines and costs. He was a real jerk, to say the least.
Mistakes do happen, but if the laws aren't in place then how many more "mistakes" would we see?
Wiam: check out this article I ran across last week. It describes the levels of intent fairly well. Scroll down a little ways to get to the Timber Trespass passage:
http://www.nhbar.org/for-the-public/personal-injury-tort-law.asp
On another note: just last month the guy who is cutting my brother-in-laws land noticed tire tracks in and out of his yard. Sure enough the pile of cedar he had been building was cut in half. Well, in northern Vermont there are only so many cedar mills and one of them was in the same town as the lot. The thief didn't bring the wood there, but the mill owner knew exactly who did it and what kind of truck he drove. He had been suspicious of this guy for some time. Well, the cutter beat feet for the next mill, about 30 miles away. The thief's truck was being unloaded as he pulled in. I'll end by saying that I would easily wager money that the thief will not return to that particular yard.