Have you ever suddenly been aware of a danger in a simple everyday task, one that you've done a hundred times before and one that everyone does without a second thought? We hear stories about lightning comming in the house, a child finding cleaning chemicals under the sink, breathing formaldehyde from wall paneling ect. I will forever be a different person as of last week.
Like any other day before going to my mill, I would stop off at the store and get a cup of coffee, grab a snack for later and fill up my gas cans in the back of the truck. Nothing unusual about it. Take off the gas caps, get the gas hose, slide the plastic gas jugs where I can reach them and start filling them up with gas. The plastic bed liner in the back of my truck is so nice. It's easy to keep clean, drains real good and reduces friction when I need to slide something around.
After filling up the jugs, I started putting the caps back on. There were a stack of blades beside me and all of a sudden........POW........ my hair stood up and my socks rolled down. I recieved a static shock on my elbow like an electric fence would feel. I Immediately remembered seeing the news about someone doing the same thing, except that their truck was engulfed in flames. The fire was blamed on static electricity. I never would have thought that it could happen in a small town and certainly not to me.
Now when I fill up, the first thing I do is take my shocking by touching all the metal in the back of the truck, including the truck itself. Filling my gas cans will never be the same. I'm a believer!
.....and the really important thing they say to do is put the cans on the ground away from the truck to fill them.
Talking on a cell phone while refueling has also been blamed as the cause of some fires at the pump.
> Filling my gas cans will never be the same
I hope this means you are going to fill them up when they are on the ground and not in the truck.
Otherwise, just touching the metal of the truck is useless as a preventive measure. The static spark that ignites the gasoline (vapors) happens INSIDE the container caused by the gasoline swirling around as you pump it in, on a non-conductive (plastic bed liner) surface.
Hmmm, I was told that sliding those plastic cans on the plastic bed liner was where the static came from.
Also, I saw on the tube one night, that cell phones directly were not the cause of fires, but, rather, women especially, sliding back INTO the car and then sliding back out (cell phone) was how the static charge was built up ??? Must be a hundred explanations ???
I know that some days, when I get outta the Dodge, I get busted, other days, nada ???
Wow - that will wake you right up!
You know, one thing that is really really nice down here is that you almost never experience static electricity. Too much humidity. When we first moved here, the sheets always felt damp - now they are fine - must be climate change... ;) Nope, we got used to it.
There is moisture in the air all the time, even during the dry season. I tried to explain static electricity one day - failed. Hard for people here to believe that just by moving you will build up an electrical charge. I tried to convince them it was my personality that did it - but they weren't buying it. ::)
The one that I always watch is ladders. I was up on a ladder once, near the top, and the bottom kicked out and I rode the ladder down as it fell. Not a pleasant experience. I hit hard enough that it hurt a lot - thankfully nothing broken. Now, when I put up a ladder, I check and recheck to make sure the bottom is solid. If I have to, I will drive stakes in to make sure it doesn't slide out!
Living down here will wake you up too. Don't walk down the sidewalks thinking they will be in one piece. Sometimes there is a huge hole in the middle - and sometimes it isn't recent. You also drive carefully, because of deforestation, we get landslides. Coming out of Ciudad Quesada there is a really bad section, just in under 2 years we have had 2 big landslides there. You learn to stay put during heavy rainstorms. :o
The one that gets me is the Bike riders at the gas station that are still sitting on the bike when they fill it up while they balance the bike.
One slip and they will be a ball of flames from the gas hitting hot exhaust.
I hate the static charge I get from either of our trucks. I don't know if it comes from sliding in an out because of being short or if their is a generator in their somewhere,made to nail me.
Dale
Anybody here old enuff to remember them "Ground Straps" what youster hang down under the cars and trucks ???
Nah, I am not as old as you.... ;D
:-[ Yes, I remember... :-[
Yep! I remember fuel tankers flyng down the road with a chain bouncing on the road beneath and throwing sparks that could be seen at night for 5 miles.
Yer gonna get yours--Dude boy. >:( :o
Your profile is wrong - you are somewhere in Florida right now - so I am safe! :D
They still make ground straps. The parts store that delivers to us has them on all the trucks so the drivers don't get shocked on every entry/exit from the truck.
The static thing........
Three years ago my mom ( 65ish) was filling her riding mower before she started mowing. When the plastic tank in the tractor was full she pulled the plastic gas can back from the tractor a spark was created.
It burned the tractor to an unrecognizable pile of steel and burned up the very nice old apple tree it was under. The fire company got there in time to keep the fire from spreading to the house.
Mom was shaken but not burned.
I've always filled cans in the back of the truck but don't anymore not only because of the danger but there is a $500.00 fine if you get caught doing it by a law enforcement officer. If our station clerks see you filling cans in the back of a truck they'll shut off the pump
I guess that's a luxury only permitted in Costa Rica. ;D
When the humidity is low the chance for static sparking is greater. Not only should the container you are fill with fuel be on the ground the nozzle from the gas pump should be touching the plastic container.
Just the action or friction of the fuel hitting the sides of a plastic container can and does cause the potential for a static discharge. A freind was pouring solvent into a plastic liner drum in the winter, less than five gallons, when it flashed into a fire ball.
A bonding wire between the tank dispencing the fuel and the container recieving the fuel would be the best set-up. Making sure the filler spout and the fuel can spout touch while fuel is flowing is another safe practice.
Several fires have happened when a person on a cold day starts putting gas in the car sets the automatic feed lever and then gets back in the car. When they slide back out of the seat to remove the nozzle a static discharge has happened when they touch any metal.
Randy
Sparks from static is not the only reason to not fill your cans in the truck bed. Gasoline fumes are heavier than air, and will collect in the truck bed, becoming a potential bomb. A static spark could set them off, but so could any number of other ignition sources. Just guarding against static sparks does not make it a safe practice. The same applies to boats. Setting the tanks on the ground does nothing to prevent static buildup, it merely allows the fumes to dissipate.
Just a tip for preventing the shock when you disembark from your vehicle; put your hand on the metal door before you put your foot on the ground. The spark will be between your shoe and the ground, and you won't feel it. :)
This is interesting stuff ! At small airports there use to be a grounding strap to clip on the plane during fueling in the dry winter months . When I combine grain I hang a old piece of corn picker chain down off the back axle and it keeps the outside cab windshield dust free . Couldnt get me to ride in a gas inboard boat ::) Never knew this about plastic gas cans though as every once in awhile when the farm barrels run out I go to the pumps in town . I have seen many truckers standing at the pumps with a cigarette and thats pretty scary but woodbowls experience will make me more wise.
Anyone who fills gas cans anyplace but sitting on the ground is playing Russian Roulette. The static builds up mainly from the friction of the fuel going through the hose. If you have ever noticed the filler neck on all boats has a metal ring around it. This ring is a ground and the person refueling is supposed to touch the fuel nozzle to the ring while fueling. This keeps the static charge drained off. I know a guy that blew his son and himself into the water while refueling his boat because of not grounding the nozzle.
One of my pet peeves is people that can't go without a cigarette while sitting next to gas pumps. I was pulled up on one side of the pump island one day and all of a sudden I was breathing cigarette smoke. I looked at the car on the other side of the island and sure enough there sat a women 4' away with her window down halfway blowing smoke out of it. The kicker is that every now and then she also was flicking her ashes out the window right next to me where I was pumping gas. I looked down at my feet and the concrete was covered with stain spots from spilled fuel and thats where her ashes were dropping. It made me so made I told her to close her window and put the cigarette out or I was going to stick the hose in her window. She closed that window real fast and hollered to her husband for help. He got right in my face till I showed him what his wife was doing with her ashes and then he shut up, got back in his car and drove away. It looked like they were having a real serious discussion as they pulled away. I should not have said what I said but it made me so mad I could not help myself. It was my good fortune that he was smart enough to realize what a dumb thing his wife did and that I was mad enough to be dangerous. I can't remember ever being that mad before or since.
Anyways always put those containers on the ground when filling and you will be less likely to be making the 6 o'clock news.
30 years ago when I worked for a service company in the oil patch, we had regular safety meetings. One situation which I have never forgotten was one about a fuel tanker explosion. The tanker was grounded and the tanker was filled. As the operator closed the big top lid the truck exploded.
This is the theory why it happened.
While filling the truck, a big black thunderstorm cloud moved through the area. When a storm moves through it is charged with electricity and an opposite charge follows on the ground. If lightning strikes, the charges are equalized. The hinges of the lid were very rusty and did not have continuity to the truck body. The charge on the ground and the truck increased as the cloud moved over, but the charge on the lid didn't since it was isolated. Close the lid, make connection, spark, boom.
Great topic and one we don't think of often enough.
> I have seen many truckers standing at the pumps with a cigarette and thats pretty scary
Not that scary since it is diesel and does not produce explosive vapors like gasoline does. Not that it is a smart thing to do. Diesel soaked clothes can light up easy enough.
I have seen a National arson investigator put out a cigarette in a glass of gas. When someone in the seminar said that it was because he put the cigarette in quickly he did another very slowly. The flash point of gas is way higher than the temp of a cigarette.
Will
I stand corrected about diesel fumes swirling out of a diesel tank at a high rate :). Why was I told by welders here on the forum that diesel tanks are more explosive than gas when I was making a homemade wood boiler ? I use diesel to light my fishhouse stove and other stoves because if it was gas I used I would be dead but why is a fuel oil tank "diesel" considered more dangerous to weld than a gas?
I am just wanting to know about welding barrels more safely and that is all :)
Don't know for sure, UB, but it might be because the diesel fuel leaves more residue inside the barrel than gasoline would. Dip a nail in some gas, and another in some diesel fuel, then look at them the next day. It ain't hard to tell which is which. Diesel just doesn't evaporate as quickly or as completely.
Just wanted to make note that alot of the well run filling stations around keep an eye on folks trying to fill gas jugs on the tail gate of the pickup. You'll usually here a voice over the intercom telling you to put the jug on the ground before filling. Forestry supervisors will also warn you about it as well. ;)
I think the danger with filling on / in the vehicle is that the whole vehicle may be holding a static charge that could cause a spark + the vapour that overflows the can as you fill it. It's not actually LIKELY to catch fire... but it COULD. Then you have a plastic can of burning petrol, in the back of a pickup full of petrol, sitting in a gas station... also full of petrol. :o
By placing the can on the ground you remove the charge that the vehicle could hold. The gas can by itself isn't big enough to carry enough charge to cause ignition. Even if pumping the fuel generates static the can isn't big enough to build up a dangerous spark.
The diesel tank welding would be hairy though. The heavier diesel would be SURE to leave a residue inside the tank, even more so than petrol. It's harmless at normal temps but once you heat it with a welding torch it's going to vapourise some of it and become flammable.
Cheers
Ian
Saw a fellow at the gas station just yesterday filling not one but two plastic tanks in the back of his SUV. ::) ::)
That was probably me again Furb. ::) ::)
I've got a 100 gallon diesel tank from TSC that sprung a leak where the mounting tab is attached at the bottom. A local welding shop welded it up with an inch or so of deisel still in it :o I just stopped to see if they could/would fix it and I was going to leave it with them if they could figuring they'd want to flush it out or something. They welded it right then. I waited outside at a distance ;) ;D. Cost twenty five bucks. Lots cheaper than a new tank 8) 8)
Betcha they woodna done that if it had been empty. The liquid in the tank absorbs the heat long before it gets to any oxygen to enable combustion.
Like using a cutting torch to get the hanging straps off a car's gas tank. Got half a tank of gas in it then it's not a problem but if it's empty BOOM!!!
Of course more often than not you're pulling these things because of a leak so the torch option goes away, and I hope nobody is dumb enough to use a torch on the straps of a plastic gas tank.
So answer me this - how come the gas cans don't go boom when you put them back in the bed, sloshing the gas around inside and sliding them over the liner?
Sounds like a topic for Mythbusters . . .
Maybe 999,999 times out of 1,000,000 it wont catch fire....
But if a million people do it, one poor schmuck is gonna luck out. :D
Ian
There are a number of reasons for the dangers of filling gas cans.
The first reason is that any fluid flowing in a hose can build up static electricity. I believe that all fuel hoses now are required to have a grounding wire built into the hose so there can be no difference in static charge between the ends.
You can also have static charges on your body. People that work around flammable solvents are supposed to wear conductive shoes or wear a simple grounding clip and test the conductivity of their shoes every day.
Your vehicle can also carry a static charge since it is insulated from the ground by the tires.
The safest method of filling gas cans would be to place the metal safety can on the ground, attach the grounding wire from the fill point to the can, keep the nozzle in contact with the can, and only use a dead man valve, not an automatic. That is essentially what OSHA requires in the workplace.
As far as the cigarette into the glass of gas, he knew that LIQUIDS WILL NOT BURN nor explode, only vapors. Even gasoline must be vaporized and mixed with the proper amount of oxygen to burn or explode.
Welding any fuel tank without following safe cleaning proceedures is like playing russian roulette with all but two chambers loaded. Regardless of any small degree of difference in diesel or gasoline it is just plain stupid.
There are three things need for combustion or an explosion. The first is fuel and leaving any in the tank is the first mistake. The second is oxygen and and you can only hope there is not enough in the tank to create a mixture that is above the LEL or lower explosive limit. The third is ignition and the weld metal will be above the 400-500 degree auto ignition temperature of either gasoline or diesel.
So either way, you are guaranteed two out of three or four out of six.