Howdy All,
I'm considering buying a swinger and would like to learn as much as I can before deciding. I'm on a super slow dial up ( 21 kbps) here in Texas ( I have DSL in WV) and trying to sort thru pages searching for info takes hours! Can someone lead me to the best source for info?
I have some large logs that are going to be very hard to turn on my LT 15 and I also want to cut a lot of QS that I hope the swinger will do well. This fourm has been a life saver for me, Thanks all!
Quinton
Captain's Link (http://www.majestystables.com/cgi-bin/store/cp-app.cgi?usr=51F8220102&rnd=5862401&rrc=N&affl=&cip=70.19.219.90&act=&aff=&pg=cat&ref=peterson)
Use the link above and give us a call if you wish...evenings are better.
Captain
See Baileysonline.com
They can send you there catalog and video on the Lucas mill. My preference.
Baileys also has a wonderful staff that can support your operation big or Small.
JAck
Bailey's is also a sponsor
click on their logo to the left.
-admin.
Qweaver
I don't think that the swingers will cut true Q sawn, they do a good job on large logs that the bandsaws can't handle.
The only negative I see about the swingers is that you need young legs to saw with one.
QuoteI don't think that the swingers will cut true Q sawn
When you q-saw with a swinger you get some boards that are exactly 90 deg, true quartersawn. You get a lot that are 70-80 deg, technically they are q-sawn too as far as stablilty and general grain go, and you get some that are rift sawn (30-60 deg to grain).
Cheers
Ian
I've taken a look at the Lucas and the Peterson. The Lucas 6" is the only one that I have found used and I don't think that it will make large enough boards for me...I can even see a need to make larger than 8" cuts without having to cut from both sides. The price of these saws (especially the Peterson) may be hard for me to justify for what I want to do. However, I have a lot of 24"+ trees that I need to fell and I hate to think about trying to saw them on my LT15. Is it impractical for me to expect to find a used swinger in the $5000 range?
Quinton
They will be hard to find at that price. I was at a farm auction here in Southern Ontario yesterday. There was a model 8 Lucas with a 20 hp Briggs 1998 model . I bid it to $ 7500 and it went for $8000. It was a Mennnonite farm and a local farmer bought it, he got a good deal but I think he would of had the last bid no matter how many I put on it.
If I can't locate a used swinger in the next two weeks, I've decided on buying a new Lucas 8 with the siding attachment. I ordered the video and talked at length with a Lucas tech who was very helpful.
I HATE to buy new because it now means that I have to try to make some money with the saw or suffer the wrath of the little lady. My WM15 and saw-shed is setting in plain view across the river from a road and I'm getting a lot of requests from people that see me sawing, but I don't really know how much work is out there. I may have a family member that can operate the saw part time also.
So if anyone knows of a used 8" swinger for sale, please let me know.
Thanks,
Quinton
There are a couple on the Sawmill Exchange...
http://www.sawmillexchange.com/circular.htm
I grew up milling with a Belsaw on the farm, and I've had one of Bailey's Lucas mills since they were first imported...and am still using it.
Some years ago I wrote this article for Bailey's that points out the advantages of swing blades over and above the Lucas Family video....few of us mill on flat, open golf courses:
What they do best is pack in and cut big'uns on the ground, providing 8-inch wide riftsawn lumber faster than anything out there. Easier to maintain and sharpen than bandsaws and are capable of cutting more accurate lumber (for bending stock) than any mill that cuts from a cant.
What they don't do is cut wide boards easily. Peterson used what the Lucas Family learned and made some major improvements there...but for more money.
But it's a manual mill, so bring muscle and lungs.
Pictures must be in Forum gallery or will be deleted.We talked of that earlier. Admin
Great article Bob, Thanks so much.
It seems to me that it would be hard to keep the rails in alignment with the saw just setting on the ground. But I've not heard anyone mention that as a problem. The setup appears flimsy to me but apparently is not.
Quinton
It's got bottom crossbars and top crossbars, and the 3X8 box section track rides in 12" long steps held down by clamps. There are three or more uprights with side braces nailed to the ground.
I have knocked the mill carriage off the tracks once or twice....once I hit the mill with the backhoe and once when a tree fell on it. Both were easy repairs....new wheels for the carriage from Baileys and a trip to the auto body shop to straighten out the track. Those incidents were 7 or 8 years ago, and the mill is still going strong.
The only repair not easy is the machine's transmission and output bearing....care for those exactly by the book, because they are both tough and spendy to rebuild. Mine are still going strong after 300k BF or so.
Welcome to the FF Bob. Hope you enjoy yourself.
I read about Earls Fir some years ago when you posted it on some other forum. Found it a learning experience to see what a swing mill is capable of sawing. See you got published in Fine WoodWorking while back...congratulations and thanks. :)
Welcome to the sawdust asylum Bob.. :D smiley_beertoast
One thing to consider Quinton is these mills hold their value (and resale) extremely well.. 8)
Guys,
The new 8 inch gearbox (in production from Oct 2004) dose not require greasing, only yearly oil changes and in the event faliure, dose not require complete removal of the swingframe. Of the 1200 we have supplied, 5 have been repaired under warranty, 4 with end float and 1 oil leak. Please find attached pictures.
The gearbox is fully covered by a full 2 year warranty that comes with each new machine.
If you have any further qustions, please don't hesitate to contact myself or Sam at Baileys.
Regards
Matthew de Jager
Lucas Mill Pty Ltd
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12000/thumb_Swingframe.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12000/thumb_Gearbox.jpg)
Welcome to the forum Matt.. 8)
So what you're saying is the gear box is an "Oil Bath", like your truck differential rear end etc., that only needs oil change maintenance?
I love this set up on equipment, such as the drive pulley housing on my Woodmizer. The oil bath gears and bearings run cool, stay clean, and lasts for years and years.. 8) 8) 8)
Bob welcome and great read there :)
Matt glad to see ya here wlcome aboard :)
Jp Green,
This is correct, these boxes require periodic oil changes.
We recommend changing the oil after the first day's operation and then every season/12 months, using automatic transmisson fluid (Deron 111).
Regards
Matthew
Matt,
Will the new transmission unit fit the older mills, as it sounds like a better option than a rebuild?
I also was given an accessory by Lucas I can't figure out. It's Part# LM58 01, Powerhead Turning Bracket (Double Cut), that came with no instruction sheet. It's basically a knob to spin the carriage on, ILO the engine crane and swivel tackle many currently use for double cuts. I'd sure like to see a pic or diagram of where it goes.
Thanks.
Bob,
The new 8 inch gearbox will fit older machines but will require the purchase of the aluminium swingframe and a new sawguard along with the gearbox.
I have emailed you the instructions for fitment of the turn-around block.
Regards
Matthew
Terrific!
Thanks, Matt.
Hey Matt,
What is this new dodad for the lucas mill? to turn the frame around without a crane or twomanning it?
Could you send the picture of the device adn a website where we can see it?
Im running a Lucas 825 and im interested in this device.
Jack
Quote from: jack on April 03, 2006, 07:49:15 PM
Hey Matt,
What is this new doodad for the lucas mill? to turn the frame around without a crane or twomanning it?
Could you send the picture of the device adn a website where we can see it?
IM running a Lucas 825 and im interested in this device.
Jack
I'm told it's featured in the new video available at Bailey's.
I mounted it and tried it out today. I have an engine crane and swivel tackle set up at the end of the milll to reverse the powerhead to attack the logs from the opposite side. This adapter bracket unites the frame and the trolley so you can position the horizontal sawblade over the log and lower the rails to spin the powerhead on the blade. Looks like the engine crane goes back into the shop.
Try spinning your powerhead without the bracket and the powerhead frame seperates from the trolley at the front. All the rubber bumper on the frame-mounted bracket does is allow the trolley to clear the rails.
Jack,
Bob has pretty much answered you question for me.
I have emailed you the instructions for fitment.
Please don't hesitate to contact me if you require further information.
Regards
Matt
That's a pretty cool idea!
I guess you probably ought to turn the engine off first, though. :D
Which of the swingers do you think is the easiest to set up and saw one person, on unlevel ground, for 24+ inch logs? If you do not mind pushing the saw assembly?
Rebocardo,
I have only used a Lucas, but I can say that my setup is generally performed by myself operating alone. Without rushing, I can usually have everything set up in 30 minutes or so. Thusfar, I have also not set up on really unlevel ground, but I will say that pushing or pulling the sawhead on very much of an angle would be tiring. While I see the advantages of being able to cut on the taper or on unlevel ground, this is not something that I would want to do regularly. However, if the opportunity presented itself and there were no other options, I would not hesitate to work on unlevel ground.
Really, the worst part of sawing alone is the off-bearing. I reverse cut (cut vertical first) so I don't have to walk around the saw carriageto remove the board, but having to offbear and sticker by myself is a slow-going proposition. I am sure that it results in > 50% cut in production.
If you are ever in SW Georgia and would like to saw some with my mill, just send me a PM.
I havent sawed with the Lucas, but the Peterson ATS I have will saw on unlevel ground. If it isnt too unlevel, you can adjust the beam winches to adjust for the lulevelness. If it is really steep, it would be better to set the mill up so that one side is higher than the other, and then lower the beam on the high side. all of this adjusting is relatively easy to do.
It takes me about the same amount of time as brdmaker to set up my mill when I am alone, so I dont think there is any advantage one way or the other. I would be happy to demo my Peterson mill for you if you are in NE Florida.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13625/DSC00219ff.JPG)
As flat ground where I live is almost unheard of, setup on slopes is an every-day affair. One of the reasons I selected this type of mill almost a decade ago.
1) Don't push uphill when you don't have to. Sequence your cuts so's the 1" cut is on the upslope and the 8" cut is on the downslope. You merely slide the powerhead carriage out of the log and push it out of the way to retrieve the board if alone and the vertical cut is last....the scale stops will bring you back to your index.
2) One potential killer with these mills is setup on so steep a slope the weight of the powerhead tips the entire mill on end at the downhill end of the cut. As that 22" spinning blade tilts forward and heads straight for the rocky ground, you'll be real happy they put that kill switch where it's handy. ;) Always make a couple dry runs on steep slopes, first....and a length of rope to tie the uphill end of the mill down to a ground stake isn't unheard of around here.
Like the guys have said the Peterson ATS and the Lucas mills do set up easier on uneven ground. You basically have only 4 ground contact points and the height is easy to adjust. With the WPF there are crossmembers and extra supports under the rails. Takes more time to adjust these for seriously uneven ground. The only heavy part of the mill is the carriage, and thats on wheels, like a big wheelbarrow.
I set up my ATS on all sorts of slopes if I have to, but I usually try and at least pivot the log so it's across the slope. Milling up and down slope is no fun. Bob's picture shows how he has jacked up the downhill end of the log to keep the rails relatively level.
And any of the mills can be set up and operated alone. But it's just so much faster with 2 people. While you are adjusting the mill for the next cut your off bearer grabs the board, then stacks it while you cut the next one. Keep the saw in the wood ;) If it's idling while you carry a board away, it's not producing.
Cheers
Ian
I'd like to add some info here because I have received emails on this subject-
Our GripperDog "frame dogs" make this kind of setup that Bob is doing easy, as first the upper log dogs hold the log in place on the bunks, but then our lower frame dog brackets allow you to place a cross bearer, or footing under the main bunk (or skid) of any height or length needed, and that can be just on the downhill side only. Also you can run that cross bearer beam all the way over to the other bunk at the other end of the log if you desire, and tie the whole frame in.
The frame dogs are solid welded steel, and clamp beams at 90 dgrs... so you can construct a solid framework (any height) under your log quickly and easily. You can also lay down a plank to walk across while you saw.
The new Generation II frame dogs now have a stake pocket on each (bracket), instead of on the Dog. This will let you drive an inexpensive steel concrete form stake from the building supply, at each frame dog- (each corner), of your cross bearing point, and lock it down with the set bolt.
Also- just to add the new Generation II log dogs are no longer made of steel and blade freindly.
Pics on Generation II GripperDog Log Dogs are here:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=18241.20
-another shameless post by me.. :D