i was wondering if anyone here that has a big circle mill has made their track out of steel. ours is made out of 6x6 timbers right now and we have been thinking of makeing it out of steel. would you use channel iron or would you use steel i-beans ? how strong does the track have to be ? do you think steel tubeing would be good enough ?
I would choose I beam over rectangular tubing. In fact i did when I made my band sawmill track. I also have a circle mill that has I beam. In my opinion it's the best choice. You want at least 8" 10# or heavier with enough support that it won't flex or shimmy.
Of course you can use anythihg if you anchor it enough. If you have steel tubing, say 4 X 6 min ¼" wall by all means use it. Just anchor it well. My 1st choice would be I-Beam tho.
what does #10 mean ? how much it weighs per foot ? does 5/16 inch thick sould strong enough on an i-beam ?
For the track on my portable I used "ladder truss" construction. Very strong and lightweight, but a dang lot of work.
What about using the steel "bar joists" that are used in buildings? They might be cheaper than I-beam.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11675/100_0075.jpg)
This shows the 40 ft track folded for transportation.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11675/000_0072a.jpg)
I used 3"x5" 1/4" wall tubing when I built the track for our Frick 01 mill. Tubing is easier to weld together and hold in place on the mill. The old track was 4" I beam and was hard to keep aligned.
#10 means 10 pounds per foot. I am biased toward I-Beam for other purposes so you might wait until a few more circle millers chime in. I own two circle mills but I am not a circle saywer yet. :P
Use what you have I say, as long as you anchor and brace it plenty well.
If its a big mill, I would use I-Beam. I bet it would be easier to come by from salvage locations then box. THe last 3 mills I have ran were actually all double I. beam. One on top of another with a space framed with short chunks of smaller I-beam between them. This mill was built to move as one unit from factory to mill location. The more solid and stable your track is, the better lumber you will cut and the less problems you will have keeping the mill sawing. If you can over build the tracks and foundation, do it! You wont be sorry.
I you plan on using I beam or channel that is hot rolled, check that it is straight before you pay for it. They can have 3/8 inch deviation for the 20 foot length.
The way tubing is made they will be straight unless damaged.
Using I-Beam for rails can be used even if there is deflection. when you create your track on top of it is where you make everything straight. My understanding talking to large mill manufactures is that box tubing can begin to collapse in the center where your track is after repeated poundings with a heavy carriage or logs on to the carriage. This can be bad news and result in not only replacing a track, but also the frame. Using Ibeam support, you have a rigid spine up the center to bear the weight. You may eventually get track wear, but that is the replacable member of the system.
If you have a mill with no turner, not subjected to heavy loads and the beating associated with a turner then tubing would probably work fine. tubing will crush in the middle where your tracks are if subjected to those repeated loads. My .02 cents is I beam or H beam if you have an automatic mill or a log turner. My preference would probably be H beam regardless of the conditions followed by I beam.
Jeff , were can I buy the bevel top track for my frick ? Or should I just rebuild the wheels ? they look like they are just about resting on the top of the track not the bevel.
Are you talking about the wheel tracks? Just use 1½ X 1½ X ¼ angle upside down if the wheels have the 45° profile. That's what mine have.
Angle iron wont work for the question at hand. The question is in regards to a big circle mill. You are dealing with weights and forces far beyond what the angle iron can endure. I have ran 4 different commercial mills. Renco, Forest-all, Morbark and CMC. The last 3 are all pretty much clones.
Don, all four of these mills used Hex Stock for the the grooved wheel tracks. Available at all most any steel company. I gotta believe your weels are wore more then the track. When I left the current Mill, I was on my third set of wheels within 1984 to 2005 but the track was still original, it was becoming quite wore however at the point where the carriage chnged directions. I figured the next set of wheels were goingto require a new track.
well i guess i shouldnt of said big no it is just big in my mind cause it has a 50" blade. it is a #1 lane with a 16 foot carriage. we dont have no log turner on it unless you count dads arms. i dont know how old it is but by the looks of it i think it was made right after god made trees. :D i was looking at the meadows sawmills and they use channel iron and tubeing. but i do think that i-beam would be a little cheaper to get tho.
i got another question about blades for a circle mill. we have 2 blades right now, both at 50" from the start of one tooth to the start of another is 4" on one and 3 1/4" on the other. we have them hammered for 650rpm. is that to much. they seem to do a great job, dad says that the one that is 4" apart seems to saw a easyer tho.
lord_kenwolf
The saw blade with the teeth further apart works best because you don't have enough power for the other blade (too many teeth).
What are you using for a power unit?
we have a 671 detroit.
lord_kenwolf
Its not a power problem with a 671 if your belts are not slipping.
My Morbark sits on top of 4x6 rectangular tubing. Under that is 4x4 setting across 4x10. All welded together. There is more bracking in the rear of the mill, where the logs are turned. We replace wheels on a pretty regular basis.
As for power, how many belts are your running? You can only transfer so much power per belt. It doesn't matter how big of an engine you're running if you can't transfer it to your saw.
we are running 4 belts on it right now, we have space for a 5th belt. we have never had the engine come onto its governer while sawing. once in a while the belts will slip but that is only when we get into something big. thats not very often. we run the belts rather tight.
i priced some channel iron and steel tubeing today and it isnt a bad price if you dont need much, but doing a 48 foot long track and then the husk takes quite a bit of steel. i think in the long run it will be worth it tho.
I don't know if you have a copy of "Circular Sawmills and their Efficient Operation" by Stanford Lunstrum, but I would highly recommend it. You can find them on Ebay with a lot of other info bundled in. I bought mine for about $10, but it might be a little more right now.
There are a lot of variables that determine the amount of hp your belts are delivering. That includes pulley size, belt length, arc of contact, and pulley speeds.
I don't think it will help you out on the I beam though. One problem I have been told about is welding your guide rail to steel. You can get it too hot and draw it out of alignment. That can cause a lot of problems.
Here is a pdf of the manual Ron mentioned, and as well, a free copy can be obtained by writing or contacting the lab in Madison, WI
Circular Sawmills (http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf)
My mill sits on a 16" I beams crossed under a 10" h beam with 4" heavy wall tube steel crossed from front to back welded every foot or so on top the H beam with the track crossing that and welded. If the track needs moving one way or another I can grind a couple welds adjust it and reweld it. Those 16" I beams crossed under and bolted to a cement floor make for easy cleaning under the mill. The log turner sits on it's own I beams bolted to the floor. I added extra support around the track area at the point where the turner is. Been sawing 6 years now and haven't found a broken weld yet.
I'm running 5 belts on my pulleys. Just recently I have noticed a drop in blade speed in big logs due to my belts needing adjustment. So i'll have to do that. You might want to check your mandrel speed to see if it's turnning 650 rpm. If your running out of power you might have to change pulleys and run the power unit a little faster. But first make sure the belts aren't slipping. The blade with the bigger spaceing in the teeth will take much less power to turn. I had a 2 1/2 pattern saw(teeth every 2 1/2 inches) and my 471 I was running at the time couldn't turn it.
is haveing the teeth farther apart better. it would use less power to saw with it but is it a better design? how far apart can the teeth be ?
On the blade with the teeth closer together, remove every other tooth and try cutting with it. See what improvement there is.
Don't actually remove every other tooth. You'll mess up the shoulders. Just put in a new tooth for every other tooth, allowing those short, used teeth to stay.
I don't know if having fewer teeth is better or worse. All you're doing is trying to compensate for a power problem. I'm thinking you're not getting enough power from your engine to your saw. That Detroit has plenty of enough power to spin your saw and saw decent lumber. I used one for many years before I went electric.
What style of saw do you have? How many teeth? There is a stamp on each shank that tells you the style of saw. I have run 50 tooth F pattern saws on a Detroit 671 with no problems.
they have F shanks and their is 48 teeth in the close together teeth one. i was thinking maybe it might be cause the friction wheel is a little worn, or it could be that the cable might of been slipping a little bit. we have 4 winds now, but we was useing it with just 3 winds on the cable drum.
priced some I-beam this morning. 150.00 for 6 inch 20 feet long. thats not to bad but it sure is a lot more then it was a few years ago.